Author Topic: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.  (Read 91542 times)

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Offline cowasaki

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #525 on: January 20, 2018, 11:34:54 AM »
Very impressive.  It would drive me nuts though!
 

Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #526 on: January 20, 2018, 04:24:41 PM »
Ha Ha. I wish I was payed to do this 7.5 hrs per day as my day job. Then I'd be able to build something really ambitious   :)

I now have all of the sound circuitry built and operational. The realistic synthesized percussive ball-thwack sounds in addition to the stereo effect really puts this version, audio wise, a level above the original oscilloscope Pong with its simple "computer" beeps.

I've just finished drafting the Audio Circuits schematic diagram - preview attached.

It's getting really close now. All that is left to do (besides the rest of the documentation) is to finish off and wire in the remaining the control logic: one player (vs machine) or two player, paddle size selection (large or small), etc.

A tally of the semiconductor count so far (from the currently completed/drafted schematics) is as follows:
             
Transistors (bipolar) : 431
Transistors (FET) : 6
Diodes : 828


EDIT: Oops - just noticed a missing 10k collector pull-up resistor on the "Missed-ball buzzer gate".
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 06:35:53 PM by GK »
 
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Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #527 on: January 21, 2018, 11:10:18 PM »
Now when you video demo the final game for Youtube, you'll need to record the audio in stereo...


I picked up a "BD-HDD Combo" recorder unit with composite video and stereo audio inputs this evening which will allow me to do just that.   :)

An earlier test on my living room stereo flat screen:


Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #528 on: January 21, 2018, 11:21:12 PM »
OK, here is where I am with the construction as of this evening. the controls are all wired and I can now select either small or large bat sizes. Now that the remaining paddle control circuitry has been built, in single player mode when the machine takes control of the right hand paddle, the paddle-to-ball offset is now corrected so that the ball hits the center of the paddle (those who watched my previously posted video would have noticed that the ball previously only hit the very top of the machine-controlled paddle.

The bolts that hold the transformers and the earth lug to the mains-stuff sub-chassis do not go through the wooden (12mm-thick ply) base. The wooden base was recessed for the bolt heads underneath the steel plate. This means that if the wooden base ever caught on fire the transformers and the critical earth bond would not work loose from the metal plate. It's all safe.







« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 11:32:04 PM by GK »
 
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Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #529 on: January 21, 2018, 11:25:16 PM »
.... Cont.





« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 11:26:56 PM by GK »
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #530 on: January 22, 2018, 04:06:18 PM »
Are you going to hang the finished "console" on the wall? It'd be cool right above whatever TV becomes the official Pong display device.
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Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #531 on: January 22, 2018, 11:39:41 PM »
Yeah, I have a computing corner in the shack with an empty bit of wall above the monitors.

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #532 on: January 23, 2018, 12:36:37 PM »
Sweet!
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Offline German_EE

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #533 on: February 03, 2018, 05:00:04 AM »
Totally cool!  :-+  :-+  :-+
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

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Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #534 on: February 04, 2018, 12:55:38 AM »
Thanks  :)

Aside from a tackle box-style carry handle and the clear acrylic sheet cover, which I haven't ordered yet, the construction is 100% complete. Just working on the documentation and the final presentation now.




Offline bitseeker

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #535 on: February 04, 2018, 01:00:21 PM »
 :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :-+
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Offline fireworks

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #536 on: February 04, 2018, 08:42:58 PM »
  YouTube video, please ? 😀
 

Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #537 on: February 04, 2018, 11:54:42 PM »
Still working on the video. I have this Samsung "BD-HDD Combo" Blue ray/DVD/Hard disk personal video recorder here at the moment for other reasons, and assumed that I'd be able to use this to record to the internal HDD the composite video output from my Pong machine directly, but as it turns out the composite video/audio jacks on the rear of this thing are outputs only. The stupid thing can only record from the internal digital TV tuner.  I have an old TEAC DTV tuner set-top box that will record MPEG video to a USB stick, but as per the Samsung box, from the DTV tuner only.

I would have thought that legacy support for the displaced analogue video would be reasonably well catered for in the modern digital "personal video recorder" market (for instance people needing/wanting to back-up their old VHS tapes/home videos) but all I can find so far, searching for personal video recorders with legacy composite video input(s) are references to no-name-brand PC adaptors which (from reading the available reviews) generally have crappy or sub-standard image quality and are plagued with flaky software.

In any case I'd be in the market for a modern DTV HDD PVR and it would be nice find one with legacy support in the form of a composite video input with companion stereo audio inputs from which it can actually record.

Does anyone reading have any experience here or can suggest a brand or model number that I can pick up at Harvey Norman or something? If not the quickest fix to get my Pong video recorded might be to drop into Jaycar to pick up one of these:   https://www.jaycar.com.au/usb-2-0-dvd-maker/p/XC4867
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 12:17:23 AM by GK »
 

Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #538 on: February 05, 2018, 12:17:03 AM »
Hmm, just checked to see if my Samsung TV, which has composite video inputs, has the ability to record to a USB stick or an external HDD. Ooh, there is a "record" button on the remote, which I've never payed attention to before. Woo Hoo! It does indeed! To both a USB stick and my external HDD. Looks like I don't need to buy a PVR to record DTV then, as I've effectively already got one in my TV. So then I selected the "AV" (composite video) input channel and pressed the record button - "function not available"  :palm: The F%$#ing TV has inputs for and can display a composite video signal, but it can't f%$^ing record it.
     
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 12:19:39 AM by GK »
 
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Online wilfred

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #539 on: February 05, 2018, 11:30:16 AM »
Hmm, just checked to see if my Samsung TV, which has composite video inputs, has the ability to record to a USB stick or an external HDD. Ooh, there is a "record" button on the remote, which I've never payed attention to before. Woo Hoo! It does indeed! To both a USB stick and my external HDD. Looks like I don't need to buy a PVR to record DTV then, as I've effectively already got one in my TV. So then I selected the "AV" (composite video) input channel and pressed the record button - "function not available"  :palm: The F%$#ing TV has inputs for and can display a composite video signal, but it can't f%$^ing record it.
   

That would be common. The PVR function is generally for recording the TV broadcasts. My PVR also only records off-air.

Maybe something like this is what you need. Note: I'm not recommending it, only suggesting. I've never used one.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OZ-Capture-Card-Video-USB-2-0-VHS-to-DVD-Adapter-Converter-EasyCap-PC-PS3-XBOX/111044087624?epid=1191490822&hash=item19dabe4f48:g:ofgAAOSwdAxZbQYl

There appear to be cheaper options direct from China. But this one claims to be shipped from Sydney.
 

Offline John Heath

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #540 on: February 05, 2018, 04:35:27 PM »

I just caught the tail end of this thread. To GK my hat goes off to you. 1 percent of that build would drive me nuts. Well done. To keep ping pong score a Z80 CPU made of discrete  transistors ,, forget what I said as there is a chance you would do it.
 

Online BrianHG

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #541 on: February 05, 2018, 04:44:47 PM »
First, all transistor vector based oscilloscope pong.
Second, all transistor based video pong.

Next?  Like I said in an earlier post, time for all transistor asteroids game, though this one will need at least something like 9 moving sprites, with wrap-around the borders instead of bounce, to look good unlike the current 1 ball + 2 paddles.  To simplify things, keep the spaceship in the center, just make it rotateable with firing and maybe a few seconds of shield with slow recharge, + maybe as much as 3 simultaneous bullets.  I guess if you want it simple, 1 bullet, which may be instantly reentered if shot again before going off the edge of the screen.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 04:48:05 PM by BrianHG »
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Offline Berni

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #542 on: February 05, 2018, 05:19:20 PM »
Sweet project :clap:

Asteroids would be pretty damn cool, but im pretty sure that would need to be mostly digital and that eats up transistors very quickly to the point of it being closer to a single purpose computer rather than analog. Perhaps a more simplified version of it could be done all analog where the rocks are circles and they don't split and collide with each other. I think most of the movement could be done with a pile of integrators and sample and holds. Collision detection could get quite involved tho.
 

Online BrianHG

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #543 on: February 05, 2018, 05:31:00 PM »
Sweet project :clap:

Asteroids would be pretty damn cool, but im pretty sure that would need to be mostly digital and that eats up transistors very quickly to the point of it being closer to a single purpose computer rather than analog. Perhaps a more simplified version of it could be done all analog where the rocks are circles and they don't split and collide with each other. I think most of the movement could be done with a pile of integrators and sample and holds. Collision detection could get quite involved tho.
Your lacking imagination here.  3 small asteroids on-top of each other adjacently making 1 large one = 3 sprites with identical trajectories like having 3 pong balls in the current game.  The first fire collision breaks the 3 up by altering the trajectories of 1 or 2 of the 3 giving you the smaller object.  If you look at the ball's programmable x/y charge oscillator in the schematic, this would be multiplied by 3 for this task.  Multiply again by 3 to start with 3 large asteroids.  Window comparators to activate the pixels located at the proper coordinates during the output scan and use as collision detectors for the gun fire.  Everything which has already been done, though, GK will need to get a little more clever with the layout for space and change the bounce on some of the objects to mirrors to make the asteroids appear to fly off 1 side of the screen and appear on the other side.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 05:32:35 PM by BrianHG »
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Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #544 on: February 05, 2018, 08:58:34 PM »
Maybe something like this is what you need. Note: I'm not recommending it, only suggesting. I've never used one.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OZ-Capture-Card-Video-USB-2-0-VHS-to-DVD-Adapter-Converter-EasyCap-PC-PS3-XBOX/111044087624?epid=1191490822&hash=item19dabe4f48:g:ofgAAOSwdAxZbQYl

There appear to be cheaper options direct from China. But this one claims to be shipped from Sydney.


Yeah, that one of the USB dongle-like devices I mentioned in my other post. The problem is most of these are rubbish. I bought the one I linked to above from Jaycar this

afternoon. Follow the saga here:  http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/kworld-dvd-maker-2-from-f$ing-jaycar/

HDD PVR's with record-able "AV" inputs now seem to be quite rare. The only model which I can find which is not listed as a discontinued product and is readily available off-the-shelf over here is Strong's SRT7014, but it's $400: 

https://strongaustralia.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/just-arrived-srt-7014-twin-tuner-digital-video-recorder-with-av-input-rs-232/

Looks like a nice unit overall though.


Sorry I can't reply to the other posts right now in a meaningful way as my "DVD Maker 2" woes have already eaten away more hours than I have to spare this evening.
 

Offline Berni

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #545 on: February 05, 2018, 09:56:41 PM »
I wouldn't be so worried about capturing the direct video from it.

If you fiddle with a camera for long enough you can get it to capture a CRT screen just fine. As long as the camera you have allows enough in the way of manual settings. Automatic settings tend to really hate CRTs.
 

Offline GK

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #546 on: February 06, 2018, 06:33:59 PM »
Yeah, my work Iphone 6s in 4k mode captures the screen fine without major strobing, but I would like to include a directly-recorded segment in my final video to demonstrate the panning stereo sound.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 06:43:28 PM by GK »
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #547 on: February 06, 2018, 07:12:59 PM »
I vote for a composite/Svideo to HDMI converter plus a LKV373A HDMI streamer box. About $10-20 for a cheap but decent converter and $33 for the streamer. MsMadLemon uses a similar setup to capture retro video games.
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Online BrianHG

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #548 on: February 06, 2018, 07:18:26 PM »
2 additional possible options with equipment you may have on hand.

You can always capture the audio on you PC's line in, then use that audio to replace the audio of the iphone video.

If you have a laptop with a good enough built in webcam, and a stereo line input next to the headphone jack, you can record from that camera & use the line in instead of the microphone audio when recording the video.
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Offline Kean

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Re: Oscilloscope pong for 1 or 2 players.
« Reply #549 on: February 06, 2018, 07:58:04 PM »
Maybe GK can use a composite/Svideo to HDMI converter with his Samsung TV recording feature
 


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