PCB Manufacturing

[Isad]

Hi all

Can anyone suggest a pcb manufacter that can do 2 sided pcb
and only 1 pcb not much more.

[free_electron]

Nobody will do 1 board. They need backup. Iteadstudio has the lowest prices.

[Isad]

Nobody will do 1 board. They need backup. Iteadstudio has the lowest prices.

OK well i can never do that like 100pcb i just need one

[zapta]

pcbshopper.com is your friend

[rea5245]

Can anyone suggest a pcb manufacter that can do 2 sided pcb
and only 1 pcb not much more.

Whenever you're looking for the best deal on PCBs, go to PCBShopper.com. It's a site I created that lets you enter the size, layers, and quantity of boards you want and it shows you prices from multiple manufacturers - currently 18. You can then sort the list by price, to find the cheapest, or by delivery time to find the fastest.

PCBShopper is not a company - I'm just a hobbyist and I created the site because I'm a cheapskate and I wanted to help my fellow cheapskates. :-) (In keeping with that, it also has a list of free CAD software. Unlike many other lists of free CAD software, my list describes what limitations have been imposed on free versions of commercial packages.)

- Bob

[eneuro]

You can then sort the list by price, to find the cheapest, or by delivery time to find the fastest.

Forgot click to sort by price and was for a moment confused why Smart Prototyping is not on the top of this list 
Maybe descending price sorting should be  default option?
However, it does not include shipping so one have to make real per unit price oneself.

Smart Prototyping China  5 × 5 cm  2 layers Green   #100    $45.40 total  $0.45 each    Deutsch Post:    +$23.00   18 days

Real price  per PCB including shippment is $68.40/#100 = 0.684$
50% of total cost is delivery-so sick .
At 1000 quantity

Dirt Cheap Dirty Boards  China 5 × 5 cm   Green   #1.000   $655.00 total  $0.66 each    Free shipping:  +$0.00 20 days

looks like has free shipping 

[Sebastian]

pcb-pool.com can do only one PCB. They are expensive but you get a free stainless steel stencil, which is pretty helpful and almost necessary if you are using fine pitched QFNs or even BGA.

[zapta]

pcb-pool.com can do only one PCB. They are expensive but you get a free stainless steel stencil, which is pretty helpful and almost necessary if you are using fine pitched QFNs or even BGA.

Used them once, stencil quality was very good but shipping to the US was slow and they charge extra for if you send gerber files.

[rea5245]

Forgot click to sort by price and was for a moment confused why Smart Prototyping is not on the top of this list 
Maybe descending price sorting should be  default option?

That's a good idea, eneuro. I've modified PCBShopper.com so that the default sort order is now by the total price with shipping.

I have a Contact Us link on PCBShopper and I encourage people to send me suggestions for how to improve the site, as well as requests for new manufacturers and new free CAD packages (a lesser-known feature of PCBShopper is a list of free CAD programs including info on how the free versions of commercial software have been crippled). And of course, if you ever spot inaccurate information on PCBShopper, I want to hear about it.

In the last two days, I've made about half a dozen improvements to the site. I'm serious about making PCBShopper useful for hobbyists and pros, and I hope it help y'all save some bucks.

- Bob

[Sebastian]

pcb-pool.com can do only one PCB. They are expensive but you get a free stainless steel stencil, which is pretty helpful and almost necessary if you are using fine pitched QFNs or even BGA.

Used them once, stencil quality was very good but shipping to the US was slow and they charge extra for if you send gerber files.

I never had to pay extra. Maybe you exported your gerbers with settings they can't use and they charged you for changing it.?

[Elrod]

I have used OSHPark.com a couple of times and I was happy with the results.  Minimum qty of 3 but if the board is small the price can still be low.  You can upload your gerber files to them and it will show you a preview and give you a price.  Not the fastest but they are in the U.S.

Elrod

[Prime73]

What do you guys do with all the left over pcbs? If I make a project it's usually one time thing and all pcb manufactures fabricate at a minimum 3/5/10 boards.

[calmtron]

What do you guys do with all the left over pcbs? If I make a project it's usually one time thing and all pcb manufactures fabricate at a minimum 3/5/10 boards.

They get thrown into the junk box most of the time, or given away to friends.

[zapta]

I never had to pay extra. Maybe you exported your gerbers with settings they can't use and they charged you for changing it.?

I didn't send them gerbers, just .brd. I am referring to this comment

"A charge of EUR 29.75 applies for standard gerber file (RS-274-D) conversion."

http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/info_dataformat.html

For Elecrow I generate gerbers with the eagle .cam file they provide and don't need to worry about compatibility.

[Sebastian]

Well, you didn't read the whole thing apparently:

Extended gerber files (RS-274-X) are now an accepted PCB-POOL® file format.
A charge of EUR 29.75 applies for standard gerber file (RS-274-D) conversion.

RS-274-X --> No problem
RS-274-D --> Needs to be converted to RS-274-X Gerber which is €29.75

So you have to send them Extended Gerber files, which shouldn't be a problem with any half-modern PCB software.

[rea5245]

I have used OSHPark.com a couple of times and I was happy with the results.  Minimum qty of 3 but if the board is small the price can still be low.

For larger boards, OSHPark gets very expensive. This is the reason I created PCBShopper.com: every time you make a new board, you need to re-evaluate who the cheapest manufacturer is for that size board. PCBShopper lets you enter the size, layers, and quantity and does the price comparison legwork for you.

- Bob

[akis]

Hi all

Can anyone suggest a pcb manufacter that can do 2 sided pcb
and only 1 pcb not much more.

I make my own PCBs. They are not as good as what would come out of a professional fabrication setup - however, from laptop design to the board ready to be assembled I can do it in two-three hours, and most of the time is waiting for the flux spray to dry (I usually leave it dry overnight). Considering I make so many mistakes it takes multiple "versions" of the PCB to get it right, it is vital to be able to have the PCB done very quickly, even if it lacks "professional" quality, eg silk screen.

Once I am very , very happy with a PCB I might decide to send it done professionally. But so far my own PCBs are just great.

You need a laser printer, 2-3 chemicals in powder form, a few plastic tubs, something to cut PCBs with (I use an old circular saw tile cutter), and an UV exposure box. It is an initial investment in chemicals and the UV box maybe, but well worth it for being able to make PCBs on demand in a couple of hours. Ah you also need a Dremel and a stand for it to drill your board.

Not being able to make PCBs on the fly is a major limitation.

The process is like this:
1) produce the artwork on transparent paper on the laser printer.
2) cut the PCB to size (5 mins maybe)
3) expose the PCB in the UV box (4 mins per side)
4) dip the PCB into the developer chemical and shake rigorously (around 60 seconds)
5) dip the PCB into hot etchant (ammonium persulphate) around 60 minutes (keep it hot by using a tub of hot water under it)
6) drill the PCB using dremel (about 30 mins depending on number of holes)
7) dip the PCB into photo resist stripper (15 seconds)
spray PCB with flux spray and let it dry (overnight usually)

If you skip the last step you can be working on the PCB in a couple of hours.

[Isad]

Hi all

Can anyone suggest a pcb manufacter that can do 2 sided pcb
and only 1 pcb not much more.

I make my own PCBs. They are not as good as what would come out of a professional fabrication setup - however, from laptop design to the board ready to be assembled I can do it in two-three hours, and most of the time is waiting for the flux spray to dry (I usually leave it dry overnight). Considering I make so many mistakes it takes multiple "versions" of the PCB to get it right, it is vital to be able to have the PCB done very quickly, even if it lacks "professional" quality, eg silk screen.

Once I am very , very happy with a PCB I might decide to send it done professionally. But so far my own PCBs are just great.

You need a laser printer, 2-3 chemicals in powder form, a few plastic tubs, something to cut PCBs with (I use an old circular saw tile cutter), and an UV exposure box. It is an initial investment in chemicals and the UV box maybe, but well worth it for being able to make PCBs on demand in a couple of hours. Ah you also need a Dremel and a stand for it to drill your board.

Not being able to make PCBs on the fly is a major limitation.

The process is like this:
1) produce the artwork on transparent paper on the laser printer.
2) cut the PCB to size (5 mins maybe)
3) expose the PCB in the UV box (4 mins per side)
4) dip the PCB into the developer chemical and shake rigorously (around 60 seconds)
5) dip the PCB into hot etchant (ammonium persulphate) around 60 minutes (keep it hot by using a tub of hot water under it)
6) drill the PCB using dremel (about 30 mins depending on number of holes)
7) dip the PCB into photo resist stripper (15 seconds)
spray PCB with flux spray and let it dry (overnight usually)

If you skip the last step you can be working on the PCB in a couple of hours.

Yeah this would be great i know that and its worth but
getting those chemicals isnt easy here i have to
order them at ebay and hope that they gett to me if
the post office dont detect them as i dont bealive i can get them here anywere
the uv box i can make one and a laserjet  printer i would print them on a friend as i have
inkjet but the chemicals i dont bealive i can get them.

[WarSim]

Because proper disposal is required the legal channels to obtain them will always be restricted in some way.  For example to order from 3M here you agree to a legal phased that makes you responsible for and damages due to storage and disposal.  It is in the fine print nobody reads but all the regulators know it's there. 

If you truly need a commercial licence to legally obtain it there then you may need to make it yourself.  If you do research allot.  Many of the methods are very hazardous. 

If both are not possible you may need to resort to milling, which has its own set of hazards.  It is more expensive so it is not as popular with DIY.