Author Topic: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...  (Read 10925 times)

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Offline PeterFWTopic starter

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Hello!
Maybe if everyone who reads this thread flags this video as dangerous they will remove it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lE9FFy_MbC0#t=188

This idiot "fixes" swollen lithium batteries by poking a hole in them to get rid of the "excess gas".
As far as i can make it out, he is serous, even if this is a joke, it is a very bad one.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 09:17:50 pm »
Bleeding the gas has been done successfully on RC lipos... it's not as dangerous as you think, especially if you reseal the hole afterwards. Shorting the cell is what causes the heat and flames.
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 09:25:14 pm »
It's still stupid and dangerous, especially for something you have on your lap with a battery of that size. Well... Darwing will burn their reproductive bits...
 

Offline PeterFWTopic starter

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 09:28:37 pm »
Bleeding the gas has been done successfully on RC lipos... it's not as dangerous as you think, especially if you reseal the hole afterwards. Shorting the cell is what causes the heat and flames.

Yea, but...
How many of those people who use such a video to fix their problem have the slightest idea what they are dooing?

The right explosive can be hit with a hammer and you will be fine, use the wrong one and you will have a very bad day.
Or just a few µ-seconds, depending on the amount and type...
 

Offline Ian.M

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2015, 09:30:29 pm »
I thought "Stupid & Dangerous" was Youtube's target male demographic?
 
 

Offline max666

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2015, 09:40:53 pm »
Sometimes you have to let natural selection do its job.

But to be serious for a moments. What exactly are the toxic gases he's talking about? Is it phosphoryl fluoride POF3 and hydrofluoric acid HF?
Would be interested to know what's going on chemically when the cells bulge.
And I presume "bleeding the gas" doesn't fix anything?
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2015, 09:46:22 pm »
Sometimes you have to let natural selection do its job.

But to be serious for a moments. What exactly are the toxic gases he's talking about? Is it phosphoryl fluoride POF3 and hydrofluoric acid HF?
Would be interested to know what's going on chemically when the cells bulge.
And I presume "bleeding the gas" doesn't fix anything?

Even if it actually fixed it, it's a dangerous thing to do. Would you change a lightbulb on a 32nd floor using a flimsy ladder on wet floor right beside an open window? Somebody reasonable wouldn't. But as always, there are people with no concept of danger.
 

Offline eas

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2015, 08:03:51 pm »
Sometimes you have to let natural selection do its job.

But to be serious for a moments. What exactly are the toxic gases he's talking about? Is it phosphoryl fluoride POF3 and hydrofluoric acid HF?
Would be interested to know what's going on chemically when the cells bulge.
And I presume "bleeding the gas" doesn't fix anything?

Lithium ion cells form gas during formation of the electrodes. This gas is usually vented/removed during manufacture. Excess gas generated during aging/use, as opposed to thermal decomposition, are believed to be similar to the gas formed during formation. According to the sources summarized here, the composition of gases depends a lot on electrolyte composition and is typically breakdown products of electrolyte chemicals, typically: H2, CO, CO2, methane, ethylene and propylene.  None of these are particularly nasty in small quantities, contrary to extrapolations from the behavior of cells in thermal runaway by random internet experts.

I considered doing this with some little RC lipos. Risks I've identified: accidentally causing a short, doing a bad job of resealing the cell, which brings the risk of a short due to evaporation of electrolyte, or the accidental introduction of water, which can react with the lithium salts in the cell, which can result in the production of Hydrogen Floride/Hydrofluoric acid, which are indeed nasty.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2015, 09:08:04 pm »
Oh the horror!  Someone doing something with a higher risk level than you are comfortable with.

While the risk/reward payoff on this particular escapade doesn't seem particularly good, it doesn't seem likely to end life as we know it, burn down cities, or even to kill significant numbers of people.

In this internet age you can find alarmists wanting to eliminate all of the terrible things from our society.  People will take a bit of information, such as knowledge that men don't have a robust mechanism for eliminating excess Iron in the body and turn it into a campaign to eliminate Iron.  This has resulted in widespread movements to ban useful stuff from our world.  The nasty metals like Arsenic, Bismuth, Lead, Mercury, Strontium, Copper and Aluminum. Or those horrible toxins - chemicals - which must be eliminated from all of our food and clothing.

Once you have accurately pointed out the risks of a particular behavior, and evaluated whether this behavior will have a direct effect on you or those you know, it is time to move on.  It isn't the job of any of us to tell the whole world how to live their lives.   

In this particular example, some number of people will be motivated to try "fixing" their batteries.  The vast majority will not cause any proximate harm.  A few will breath a small quantity of something not good for them, which in some cases will result in a shortening of potential lifespan. (Remember that people who do things like this are also likely to try a large number of other potentially life shortening activities).  The vast majority will find that the batteries are not restored to like new condition, and in many cases not even to usable condition.  They will seldom, or never repeat the experiment.  This will remain a fringe activity that has little impact on the health and safety of the world.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 09:31:27 pm by CatalinaWOW »
 

Offline max666

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2015, 09:09:56 pm »
Thanks for the info, eas! Interesting stuff.

I don't see how venting is a solution, because you would have to reseal it vapour-diffusion-proof (I don't think a piece of tape will do it).
Hydrolysis
Water is a major concern in LIB’s.  At concentrations as low as 10 ppm, water begins catalyzing a host of degradation products that can affect the electrolyte, anode and cathode.

Under typical conditions the electrolyte LiPF6 provides an ionic medium enabling Li+ to shuttle between the electrodes during intercalation and de-intercalation. However LiPF6 also participates in an equilibrium reaction with LiF and PF5.

Under typical conditions, the equilibrium lies far to the left. However in the presence of water, the equilibrium reaction starts shifting to the right to form LiF, an insoluble electronically insulating product. LiF forms on the surface of the anode resulting in an increase in SEI film thickness. As the SEI film thickens, it gives rise to an increase in impedance that can ultimately lead to capacity fade.

And that Exponent Report for NFPA is great:
Quote
Footnote 35    Should a safety vent not operate properly, on thermal runaway a cell case could rupture at an elevated pressure and distribute cell materials over a wide radius, such rupture is sometimes called “rapid disassembly.”
"rapid disassembly" ... I love how they manage to sterilise language, imagine how FAUXNews would report a "distribution of cell materials over a wide radius"  :-DD
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2015, 03:10:44 am »
And that Exponent Report for NFPA is great:
Quote
Footnote 35    Should a safety vent not operate properly, on thermal runaway a cell case could rupture at an elevated pressure and distribute cell materials over a wide radius, such rupture is sometimes called “rapid disassembly.”
"rapid disassembly" ... I love how they manage to sterilise language, imagine how FAUXNews would report a "distribution of cell materials over a wide radius"  :-DD

'Muuurica. That's both sides of the spectrum right there.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2015, 12:18:46 pm »
There are far more dangerous videos on youtube, such as the one of the Russian kids playing on top of  train and the Ukrainians playing with a magnetron.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2015, 08:32:14 pm »
Hello!
Maybe if everyone who reads this thread flags this video as dangerous they will remove it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lE9FFy_MbC0#t=188
This idiot "fixes" swollen lithium batteries by poking a hole in them to get rid of the "excess gas".
As far as i can make it out, he is serous, even if this is a joke, it is a very bad one.
seriously are you serious? because i just bought my first lipo several weeks ago and it got swolen after. i did poke it with metalic paper knife (as not advised in the video) and release the gas, seal it again with elcheapo tape and i'm still around, well i'm not saying that safe ok? i poked it with care... next time i will use plastic knife as advised in the video, thanks to the video.

sometime people who do this do not expect "like new" battery after, but just only to be able to fit in in something tight place or have a peace of mind seeing "not bulged" battery. fwiw it was a 5200mah 4s battery i was poking about, china came i'm not sure if its really 5200mah or even i'm not sure if its really "lipo".
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 08:39:36 pm by Mechatrommer »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline lincoln

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2015, 09:24:45 pm »
Well... Darwing will burn their reproductive bits...

Seems like a self regulating problem.
 

Offline WZOLL

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2015, 02:55:17 am »
I was taking apart a small Li-Ion battery and the foil was glued to the plastic and ripped. The gas has a distinct metallic smell that's not that bad.
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2015, 02:40:23 am »
Well... Darwing will burn their reproductive bits...

Seems like a self regulating problem.

One that's becoming more useless with time, as we progress, there are less ways for natural selection to happen.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2015, 03:21:32 am »
Well... Darwing will burn their reproductive bits...
Seems like a self regulating problem.
One that's becoming more useless with time, as we progress, there are less ways for natural selection to happen.
to burn there reproductive bits is his personal selection. to use it in unnatural way is there personal selection, as for nature... anything that can "select" is "intelligent"
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2015, 03:36:10 am »
to burn there reproductive bits is his personal selection. to use it in unnatural way is there personal selection, as for nature... anything that can "select" is "intelligent"

I imagine that Mechatrommer's post composition process involves a dartboard with words written on it.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2015, 03:53:08 am »
no, its deductive logic.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2015, 04:35:43 am »
That, or you're a Markov bot.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2015, 11:57:41 am »
There are far more dangerous videos on youtube, such as the one of the Russian kids playing on top of  train and the Ukrainians playing with a magnetron.

I'm damned if I can find it now but I enjoyed the one of Russian kids flying kites into pylons (it's a way to make very impressive sparks for very little material outlay).

 

Offline BradC

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2015, 12:01:43 pm »
There is no cure for stupid, and attempting to legislate it away is just prolonging the inevitable. That and denying the rest of us solid entertainment.
 

Offline BradC

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2015, 02:55:44 pm »
Reported.

Oh, get your hand off it. Stupid is as stupid does. You can't make something foolproof because someone keeps coming up with more inventive fools.
 

Offline jwm_

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2015, 04:40:42 am »
That is one of the lower danger, dangerous videos on youtube.

You want a dangerous thing on the internet, I give you this

http://www.instructables.com/id/propaine-air-tool-attachment/


Online Zero999

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Re: Pretty dangerous youtube video, uploadet 2012 and still online...
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2015, 09:52:09 am »
That is one of the lower danger, dangerous videos on youtube.

You want a dangerous thing on the internet, I give you this

http://www.instructables.com/id/propaine-air-tool-attachment/
That site should be called destructables. lol

There are so many retards on that site who know nothing about engineering and the bad/dangerous projects far outnumber the good ones.
 


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