Author Topic: really small SMD grabbers?  (Read 757 times)

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Offline coppercone2

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really small SMD grabbers?
« on: December 07, 2018, 10:31:30 am »
So I have a bunch of grabbers including the standard grabbers that are OK for a dip and the mini/micro grabbers that can do like a soic kinda.

Can you go any smaller ? I have both of these types:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1PCS-Tektronix-Tek-30V-IC-Grabber-Clip-Probe-Accessory-the-black-one-/322868241342

Do smaller ones exist?

Also is there some thing that can go and clip into a small solder joints (I am thinking a special possibly threaded clamp kind of like Japanese "Vampliers" )
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 10:33:17 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Offline Terry01

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 10:54:01 am »
Some neat clips!  :)
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Offline coppercone2

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2018, 10:55:13 am »
I assume the pin pitch in those is the number shown in MM.

I am pretty sure those tek minigrabbers I got can do SOIC, which is 0.6, so those are not really an improvement other then build quality.

But, interestingly, panoma specifies the minigrabbers as being 1.27 pin pitch, so maybe if its specified to 0.6 officially it does better?
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2018, 11:05:07 am »
The Hirschmann clips have a 0.6mm diameter which should be much better than the black clips sold in that eBay offer. I'm not sure if there is something much smaller available.

Data sheet:
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/C170/KLEPS-FP-2B.pdf
Both clip types are said to be usable for QFPIC pitches from 0.5mm till 0.8 mm.

Catalogue from  Electro PJP
http://www.electro-pjp.com/sites/default/files/catalogue_1.pdf
The "Challenger Clip" is named "6800" there. They also offer another type called "6606-080" which is meant for the same pitch but has a larger diameter (1.25mm)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 11:21:52 am by 0xdeadbeef »
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Offline Warhawk

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 07:40:01 pm »
Hmm, already excellent tips in this thread. I like the challenger clip. I'll give it a try.
I also suggest this for the lab:

https://www.reichelt.de/miniatur-pruefclip-smd-bauteile-0-64-mm-schwarz-micro-smd-clip-p106195.html

I use it all the time.

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 08:59:45 pm »
recently i bought used but original Tektronix grabbers for LA (2 on the left) thinking i may improve probing pitch, eek wrong its worst, so it seems the china hung low grabber is still my favourite even though i need to rebend the clipper tip from time to time due to cheap and thin metal tip. but that thin metal tip is nicer because lesser risk of shorting adjacent IC pins. the Tektronix one is thick and hard metal, but i'm guessing not suitable for small pitch probing. the middle one is grabber that came with Lecroy WL600 probe, i have no idea where to get them separately. the 2nd right is my currently used china hung low grabber and the right most one came with china transistor tester. the Hircmann brand is unreasonably expensive imo, with increasing number of probing nodes this can easily turn into blood sucking event, and i'm not sure i can improve anything by using it, say on 0.5mm pitch pins. i'd rather solder small extension wires (custom probing setup) or buy thousands of china hung low grabber and throw it away everyday. ymmv...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 09:06:05 pm by Mechatrommer »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 09:41:02 pm »
The Hirschmann clips have a 0.6mm diameter which should be much better than the black clips sold in that eBay offer. I'm not sure if there is something much smaller available.

Data sheet:
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/C170/KLEPS-FP-2B.pdf
Both clip types are said to be usable for QFPIC pitches from 0.5mm till 0.8 mm.

Catalogue from  Electro PJP
http://www.electro-pjp.com/sites/default/files/catalogue_1.pdf
The "Challenger Clip" is named "6800" there. They also offer another type called "6606-080" which is meant for the same pitch but has a larger diameter (1.25mm)
These look similar to these Japanese Sunyahato ones - I bought some in Akihabara  a few years ago. OK but the tubes can split. I usually end up soldering wires on.
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Offline ajb

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2018, 02:16:20 am »
I asked about this a while ago: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-clipsgrabbers-for-fine-pitch-ics/msg1309185/

Mecano clips seemed to be the way to go, but I got distracted and never got around to chasing up a place to actually buy them.

Challenger Clip (more affordable)
https://www.calplus.de/testec-21083.html
https://www.reichelt.de/challenger-clip-white-clip-6800-ws-p63460.html

Those are the same as the Pomona 742902, which I tested out in that other thread, they work quite well on 1.27mm SOIC, and can work on 0.65mm parts that have relatively narrow leads, but are hopeless for 0.65mm parts with what I would consider to be average width leads.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 02:25:51 am by ajb »
 

Offline MarkL

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2018, 02:59:41 am »
I have a set of the 0.6mm diameter yellow and greenish micro-grabbers made by Mechano, and they work well:

  http://www.mechano.co.jp/product.html

Much of the site is in Japanese, but they sell their products through Keysight, Tektronix, LeCroy, PMK, and probably others.  They have a grabber claimed to go to 13.5GHz (!).  I don't know about that, but it is tiny.

I bought a set of their FP-5 and FP-5L through Keysight.  The FP-5L has a long barrel which makes it easier to get into cramped areas.

Pomona looks like they also offer this style grabber (not the 72902).  They look nice, but I haven't tried them:

  https://www.pomonaelectronics.com/products/test-clips/micro-smd-grabber-test-clip-5-3-mm-ic-10-pcs
 

Offline MatteoX

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2018, 05:01:05 am »
If you want to probe 0.5mm PQFP/TQFP style packages I would recommend Keysight wedge style probes E2613A/E2614A/E2643A (3/8/16 pins respectively). They are also available for 0.65mm pitch.

https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1000000655%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-E2613A/05-mm-wedge-probe-adapter-for-tqfp-and-pqfp?cc=US&lc=eng&lsrch=true&searchT=e2613a

These probes slide between the pins.  I have used 3- and 8-pin version many times. They are very convenient especially if you need to probe several consecutive pins. They are not cheap (3-pin version is about $175, 8-pin is about $250) but if you need to probe 8 or 16 consecutive pins they are indispensable.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 05:02:57 am by MatteoX »
 

Offline Jester

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2018, 06:56:58 am »
I have two types for dense probing:

1) https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/chip-quik-inc/SMDFP-1B30/SMDFP-1B30-ND/2334389
2) https://www.ebay.com/itm/FP-2C-10-0-5-0-3mm-MicroGripper-1POS/221511824312?hash=item33932233b8:g:qXUAAOSwDk5T28X0

I have 20 of the 2nd style, would like to get more of the first style, the long probe comes in handy sometimes. Problem is they are expensive!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 06:59:29 am by Jester »
 

Online DaJMasta

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2018, 09:22:37 am »
The price on those challenger clips is very appealing.... are there US distributors of them or suppliers that will ship to the US?

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 11:54:30 am »
For reliable measurements on thin wires I tend to pre tinned ends of 0.2mm enameled wire to my measurement points. Solder the other end to some 0.1" header and clamp the header to the PCB, or glue it to the PCB with some hot snot, so you can still remove it if you want.

Had a look on the challenger clips. According to Reichelt they go down to 0.8mm, which is too wide for my 0.5mm pitch STm32F103.
A long time ago I found some Japanese high prcision mini grabbes. I believe they went down to 0.3mm but these were also very expensive.

This may also work reasonably wel for temporary measurement setups, and is easy to make yourself:
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 11:58:35 am by Doctorandus_P »
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2018, 12:33:04 pm »
i don't like that. Maybe if those probes are real heavy.
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 05:48:34 am »
According to Reichelt they go down to 0.8mm, which is too wide for my 0.5mm pitch STm32F103.
Nah. Reichelt says that the diameter is 0.8mm, but this is not the minimum pitch it can be used for.
Actually the official datasheet states a 0.45mm pitch as far as I can tell
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/D100/MS6800-12.pdf
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Offline ajb

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 05:59:17 am »
According to Reichelt they go down to 0.8mm, which is too wide for my 0.5mm pitch STm32F103.
Nah. Reichelt says that the diameter is 0.8mm, but this is not the minimum pitch it can be used for.
Actually the official datasheet states a 0.45mm pitch as far as I can tell
https://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/D100/MS6800-12.pdf

Those are the same as the Pomona 742902 clips, except for the much lower price.  I tried out the Pomona clips and have pictures here.  They're okay for SOIC, they work okay for *some* 0.65mm TSSOPs, but are going to be hopeless for anything finer than that.  Most of the "minimum pitch"  claims on these clips are uselessly optimistic bordering on straight out made-up.
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: really small SMD grabbers?
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2018, 06:07:36 am »
It's one thing if they work for a certain pitch and another if they work for two, three or more pins next to each other. Obviously pins directly next to each other are much more problematic that single pins.
To measure several pins next to each other, indeed the "wedge" style probes are much better than single grabbers.
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