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Author Topic: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer  (Read 23691 times)

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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #100 on: March 29, 2016, 04:06:26 PM »
Hi,

I can't get the download to work - got a 'Fatal Error - Unable to find "dwf.dll"'. What am I doing wrong? My PC in Win 7 x64, .Net 4.6.

Thanks.
Had the same problem. I've reported it to jaxbird but he seems to be away

In the interim this work around got me going
Download and install the old version of waveforms from here http://store.digilentinc.com/waveforms-download-only/
Select "downgrade" for all the options

This should be enough to get his program working.
If you want/need the new Waveforms2015 version as well as his software then continue with the following

With the old version now installed go to C:\windows\SysWOW64 and copy dwf.dll from this directory
Then go to C:\Users\<your user name>\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\MZKGDAT1.PHM\N5YL8OR9.1AQ\audi..tion_0000000000000000_0001.0000_e5f4f61c851d23cd directory
At a guess some of those alphanumeric directories may be different in you installation. You need to find the folder containing these files-
Audio-Frequency-Icon.ico
AudioAnalyzerSuite.cdf-ms
AudioAnalyzerSuite.exe
AudioAnalyzerSuite.exe.cdf-ms
AudioAnalyzerSuite.exe.config
AudioAnalyzerSuite.exe.manifest
AudioAnalyzerSuite.manifest

Paste the copied dwf.dll here

You can now re-install the new version of waveforms(2015) and AudioAnalyzerSuite will use the DLL in its local directory first. allowing you to use his software and the new version of waveforms

 

Offline Carrington

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #101 on: March 30, 2016, 01:01:31 AM »
Because of his daily work, we can not expect quick answers from 'jaxbird'. Additionally, he is providing all these software for free. So, in my opinion, we can not demand a full attention.

Please, don't misinterpret my words, I'm not reproaching nothing. I also bothered him before with a lot of emails. I repeat, I'm not criticizing, just letting you know about, specially to prevent than anyone get nervous while are waiting for an answer.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 01:54:53 AM by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #102 on: May 12, 2016, 10:01:47 PM »
Hi,

I can't get the download to work - got a 'Fatal Error - Unable to find "dwf.dll"'. What am I doing wrong? My PC in Win 7 x64, .Net 4.6.

Thanks.

It seems like it was caused by the updated to Waveforms software, I have added a fix, please try again and let me know if it works now.

Thanks
Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 

Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #103 on: May 12, 2016, 10:22:08 PM »
Jaxbird - still awesome! and thank you for the input to my question. Your software/hardware solution looks really good!  I watched your video and was wondering --- you are able to look at the graphs and pretty easily tell if things are good or not so good. Obviously pretty simple on something like THD or THD+N but can you share or direct me to where I can find out, for example -- what is acceptable output impedance (tube, solid state) or input impedance (tube, Solid state) etc...  I guess what I'm asking is lot's of people can probably set the system up and get graph but the skill comes with the interpretation.

It may be a little while before I spring for an Analog Discovery and your software -- cause I just blew my budget on an Oscilloscope (Rhode and Schwarz 1202) -- Yeah a bit overkill for this type of analysis but I wanted to treat myself (the FFT function is supposed to be very good, though)

Cheers
John

Thanks, transistor based amplifiers should have very low output impedance, as in way below 1 ohm, more like 10s or 100s of milli ohm. Tube amplifiers cannot achieve that performance because they have output transformers (well some obscure transformer less tube amps do have lower output impedance, but they require insane amounts of paralleled output tubes and are more a novelty)

This solution using the Analog Discovery is not something you would use measure marketing specs, but it's something useful to anyone trying to diagnose a potential faulty amplifier, or making sure your amplifier design performs pretty well.

It is far superior to purely sound card based solutions in that it's got differential inputs and bandwidth beyond 10MHz, so if anything is oscillating, you will notice right away.

Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 

Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #104 on: May 12, 2016, 10:33:16 PM »
Because of his daily work, we can not expect quick answers from 'jaxbird'. Additionally, he is providing all these software for free. So, in my opinion, we can not demand a full attention.

Please, don't misinterpret my words, I'm not reproaching nothing. I also bothered him before with a lot of emails. I repeat, I'm not criticizing, just letting you know about, specially to prevent than anyone get nervous while are waiting for an answer.

Cheers.

Thanks, much appreciated Carrington, you are absolutely right, this is a hobby project, I cannot provide quick response to issues, it's simply not possible, but if you provide good bug reports, I will do my best to get them fixed when I have available time.

Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 

Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #105 on: May 12, 2016, 10:40:46 PM »
Hi,

I can't get the download to work - got a 'Fatal Error - Unable to find "dwf.dll"'. What am I doing wrong? My PC in Win 7 x64, .Net 4.6.

Thanks.
Had the same problem. I've reported it to jaxbird but he seems to be away

In the interim this work around got me going
Download and install the old version of waveforms from here http://store.digilentinc.com/waveforms-download-only/
Select "downgrade" for all the options

This should be enough to get his program working.
If you want/need the new Waveforms2015 version as well as his software then continue with the following

With the old version now installed go to C:\windows\SysWOW64 and copy dwf.dll from this directory
Then go to C:\Users\<your user name>\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\MZKGDAT1.PHM\N5YL8OR9.1AQ\audi..tion_0000000000000000_0001.0000_e5f4f61c851d23cd directory
At a guess some of those alphanumeric directories may be different in you installation. You need to find the folder containing these files-
Audio-Frequency-Icon.ico
AudioAnalyzerSuite.cdf-ms
AudioAnalyzerSuite.exe
AudioAnalyzerSuite.exe.cdf-ms
AudioAnalyzerSuite.exe.config
AudioAnalyzerSuite.exe.manifest
AudioAnalyzerSuite.manifest

Paste the copied dwf.dll here

You can now re-install the new version of waveforms(2015) and AudioAnalyzerSuite will use the DLL in its local directory first. allowing you to use his software and the new version of waveforms

The Waveforms software did a switch from 32 bit libraries to 64 bit without telling anyone, usually that would not be an issue, but I had my software set to expect a 32 bit library.

Anyway, updated version, it should work with both 32 and 64 bit versions of Waveforms.

Sorry for my slow response to this issue, I have been out travelling for some time.

Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 
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Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #106 on: May 26, 2016, 02:34:04 PM »
I have added functionality to compensate for external attenuation as the Analog Discovery (both 1 and 2) will start clipping at +/-25Vpp.

Just make a cable/adapter something like this:



This example will give 2:1 attenuation, so you'd enter 2.0 as attenuation factor and the software will scale everything accordingly to still provide all the correct values. The attenuation factor is shown in bottom right corner, just click on the value to change it.

Keep in mind the voltage/current and resistor ratings when choosing resistor values and that the Analog Discovery input impedance is 1M ohm.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 02:37:41 PM by jaxbird »
Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 

Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #107 on: May 29, 2016, 02:12:41 AM »
Added another feature. On most classic distortion analyzers you have an output to view the distortion and noise waveform on your scope. So I've tried to replicate this feature, it doesn't give any easily quantifiable information, but for those experienced in looking at this waveform it's got valuable information. Basically it's everything coming out of the amplifier except the fundamental tone.

My current test subject, a hybrid stereo amplifier with a tube front end voltage amplifier and transistor output stage:



And here a view of distortion vs frequency with the distortion/noise waveform in the scope view (the blue trace):



Easy to spot the dominant 2nd harmonic shown in the spectrum. Close to a nice sine wave. It's on a different scale as the main waveform. (blue values vs red value indicators)

The distortion waveform is not perfectly time aligned with the main trace, I'll probably try fix that in a furture update. Should still provide a useful feature like on the old skool distortion analyzers.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 03:00:31 AM by jaxbird »
Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 
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Offline AlanG

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #108 on: May 29, 2016, 09:04:27 AM »
This example will give 2:1 attenuation, so you'd enter 2.0 as attenuation factor and the software will scale everything accordingly to still provide all the correct values. The attenuation factor is shown in bottom right corner, just click on the value to change it.

Keep in mind the voltage/current and resistor ratings when choosing resistor values and that the Analog Discovery input impedance is 1M ohm.
I have not downloaded your latest build so these comments may not be applicable;
1) How many decimal places have you allowed for in the attenuation factor? e.g. can you enter 3.16?
2) Would you consider adding the option of entering the attenuation in dB? e.g. 10dB (as above)

regards,
Alan
 

Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #109 on: May 30, 2016, 02:42:57 AM »
This example will give 2:1 attenuation, so you'd enter 2.0 as attenuation factor and the software will scale everything accordingly to still provide all the correct values. The attenuation factor is shown in bottom right corner, just click on the value to change it.

Keep in mind the voltage/current and resistor ratings when choosing resistor values and that the Analog Discovery input impedance is 1M ohm.
I have not downloaded your latest build so these comments may not be applicable;
1) How many decimal places have you allowed for in the attenuation factor? e.g. can you enter 3.16?
2) Would you consider adding the option of entering the attenuation in dB? e.g. 10dB (as above)

regards,
Alan

Hello Alan,

Quick answers:

1. The value is stored in a 64 bit floating point, so as many as you like, so you could enter 3.1622776601683795 :) (I think the limit is 15 or 16 something) Just keep in mind it's not meant as a super precision instrument, as in, not competing with Audio Precision instruments in accuracy, but providing many of the same features.

2. I did considered this, my thinking is that a ratio would be easier for most users based on resistor values, but I'm open to using dB instead if this is the preferred option. Perhaps an option to enter either attenuation factor or dB would be ideal. I think I'll add that. Thanks for the suggestion.

Cheers
Jake
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 03:14:11 AM by jaxbird »
Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 

Offline bson

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #110 on: May 30, 2016, 08:30:43 AM »
Great project!  Will have to get an AD just to play with it...

It would be extremely useful if it could produce the output to an arbitrary USB audio device.  That way I could use it to analyze audio DACs.

For more complex networks it would also be nice to get phase information, or more specifically group delay.  (\$\frac{d\phi}{d\omega}\$)  And maybe S-plane decay (\$\sigma\$) to look for a propensity to ring.  For a basic amplifier this is probably not of interest, but it quickly becomes relevant when there's a crossover network (with measurement made on the drivers rather than the speaker box input terminals), or for components like DACs or phono preamps where filtering is a fact of life.

For the group delay, even a basic approximation is very useful.  My HP 3577A takes the phase of sample n-1 and calculates the slope to the phase of sample n+1.  This becomes the group delay for sample n, in seconds.  It will only do it for linear sweeps, but theoretically there's no reason it can't be done for log sweeps just as well in a PC.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 08:49:18 AM by bson »
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Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2016, 02:33:48 AM »
Great project!  Will have to get an AD just to play with it...

It would be extremely useful if it could produce the output to an arbitrary USB audio device.  That way I could use it to analyze audio DACs.

For more complex networks it would also be nice to get phase information, or more specifically group delay.  (\$\frac{d\phi}{d\omega}\$)  And maybe S-plane decay (\$\sigma\$) to look for a propensity to ring.  For a basic amplifier this is probably not of interest, but it quickly becomes relevant when there's a crossover network (with measurement made on the drivers rather than the speaker box input terminals), or for components like DACs or phono preamps where filtering is a fact of life.

For the group delay, even a basic approximation is very useful.  My HP 3577A takes the phase of sample n-1 and calculates the slope to the phase of sample n+1.  This becomes the group delay for sample n, in seconds.  It will only do it for linear sweeps, but theoretically there's no reason it can't be done for log sweeps just as well in a PC.

Thanks, I'm not convinced this project alone would justify buying an Analog Discovery, I guess it depends on how much amplifier testing you do :) or whether the AD's standard features are attractive, it's a bit of a Swiss army knife of measurements.

It would be nice to have a decent 24bit, 192/384ksps sound card cover the 20Hz to 20-40kHz range to get more dynamic range while having the Analog Discovery measure the levels. It would be fairly simple to implement code wise, but it would require some external hardware for input/output switching, attenuation selection etc. One of the main issues with using sound cards is that you really have no idea what level they are working at, and at what level the input will start clipping and when the output clips or maxes out. Plus if you are e.g. measuring a bridged output (like most class D amps) it could turn into an expensive disaster to connect the amplifier negative output to a single ended soundcard ground input. Also unlikely the sound card output level is high enough to bring many power amplifiers into clipping. Perhaps some optimization for a specific sound card (preferably external usb connected for laptop usage) could be a good solution. Definitely worth considering.

Group delay and phase are likely features I will work on adding in future updates, until then I'd recommend software like ARTA for these measurements (using a sound card). Personally I have good experience with ARTA, though I mostly use it for speaker measurements.

Cheers,
Jake
Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 

Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #112 on: June 04, 2016, 06:09:43 AM »
I was thinking about building a complete ADC/DAC maybe 24/32bit/512ksps using the best commercially available converters, and a CM6631A for usb interface for both analog and digital testing and writing some kick ass software for it, but I think it's too much work and I'm just one person, so I think I will stick to making some generally usable software for the Analog Discovery for now.

Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
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Offline RandallMcRee

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #113 on: June 04, 2016, 07:35:42 AM »
In the ADC/DAC arena there is also this offering:

http://www.quantasylum.com/content/Products/QA401.aspx
folks on diyaudio seem to like it:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/231401-quantasylum-qa400-qa401.html

QA401 is $429.

 

Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #114 on: June 04, 2016, 08:29:40 AM »
In the ADC/DAC arena there is also this offering:

http://www.quantasylum.com/content/Products/QA401.aspx
folks on diyaudio seem to like it:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/231401-quantasylum-qa400-qa401.html

QA401 is $429.

Thanks, that does look very interesting, but at $429 it's a bit of an investment for something that might measure up to 80-90kHz (they don't specify bandwidth, so it could be a lot less) and give an extra 20-30dB dynamic range, it still needs attenuation for amplifier measurements, it seems the maximum input is close to that of the Analog Discovery, but it does appear to have differential inputs.

I'm not clear whether this device works like a sound card or it's got some proprietary USB interface.

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Online timb

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #115 on: June 04, 2016, 09:02:34 PM »
In the ADC/DAC arena there is also this offering:

http://www.quantasylum.com/content/Products/QA401.aspx
folks on diyaudio seem to like it:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/231401-quantasylum-qa400-qa401.html

QA401 is $429.

Thanks, that does look very interesting, but at $429 it's a bit of an investment for something that might measure up to 80-90kHz (they don't specify bandwidth, so it could be a lot less) and give an extra 20-30dB dynamic range, it still needs attenuation for amplifier measurements, it seems the maximum input is close to that of the Analog Discovery, but it does appear to have differential inputs.

I'm not clear whether this device works like a sound card or it's got some proprietary USB interface.

It's proprietary, which is one of the selling points. The idea being that because it doesn't show up as a standard USB audio device, you don't have issues with other software (or the OS itself) changing the gain during a measurement.

They provide software that's fairly comprehensive; there's also third party support from at least one other popular audio analysis suite.

Seems like a nice system, but I'm not really sure how much better it is than a ~$100 24-bit USB ADC/DAC unit combined with one of the many audio analysis programs available. I guess the QA401 has built-in attenuation and can take a differential signal that's over 50Vrms, which is nice.
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Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #116 on: June 08, 2016, 08:47:54 PM »

It's proprietary, which is one of the selling points. The idea being that because it doesn't show up as a standard USB audio device, you don't have issues with other software (or the OS itself) changing the gain during a measurement.

They provide software that's fairly comprehensive; there's also third party support from at least one other popular audio analysis suite.

Thanks, I think not relying on the volume setting is a plus, their specs are confusing, some places it says single ended, other places differential, and this was in one of the specs:

Input AC Impedance   10K   
Input Clip Level   +3 dBV = 1.41 Vrms = 4Vpp

That does require some external attenuation, not sure if they have anything to compensate for external attenuation, or even measuring output power.

Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
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Offline jaxbird

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #117 on: June 08, 2016, 09:10:29 PM »
Video showing new features in use:


Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 

Offline Oneminde

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #118 on: June 05, 2017, 09:25:36 AM »
Thestuffmade webpage is down and I really need a copy of the Audio Analyzer Suite, can anyone please share it ?
 

Offline sarel.wagner

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #119 on: June 16, 2017, 08:08:11 PM »
Ditto please, thestuffmade website is still down, can someone please share the download? Or better dump it on dropbox or googledrive and share please?
Rgrds

Offline Marco

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #120 on: June 17, 2017, 04:13:52 AM »
It would be nice to have a decent 24bit, 192/384ksps sound card cover the 20Hz to 20-40kHz range to get more dynamic range while having the Analog Discovery measure the levels. It would be fairly simple to implement code wise, but it would require some external hardware for input/output switching, attenuation selection etc.

There is an alternative, you can combine the two channels into one with a simple attenuator. Obviously this will drift a lot with temperature, but with online calibration it can work. In fact with online calibration you can create a ultra pure sine with such a makeshift DAC.

See "Low Cost Ultra-Pure Sine Wave Generation with Self Calibration". In short you selectively low pass the DACs, because the low pass only affects the harmonics for the DACs you can detect/correct them even with an ADC which itself is also significantly non-linear. The software is not entirely trivial, but with the ADC/DAC using one clock it will be simpler than in the paper (no need to detect the fundamental).
 

Offline Jelcke

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #121 on: July 02, 2017, 09:28:21 AM »
Inspired by
I just bought a Analog Discovery 2 but now the software is not available anymore!
Could anyone or jaxbird share a copy with me please.
Thanks!
 

Online bitseeker

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #122 on: July 12, 2017, 03:53:37 AM »
The Audio Analyzer Suite cannot easily be shared. Why? Because the download was only an installer. It did not include the software. Only after running the installer was the latest version of the software downloaded directly from the site and onto your computer. So, without the site being up, the required installation package is not available even if you had downloaded the .exe file before the site went offline.
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Offline azer

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #123 on: July 14, 2017, 05:10:01 AM »
Try the attached files, it is the files downloaded by the installer.
I don't think it is the latest version. I don't have the AD here and it complains that it can't be found on startup so I don't know if it runs ok without the server online.
The files are located in a subfolder of c:\users\yourusername\AppData\Local\Apps\2.0\ if anybody has one of the later versions.
 

Online bitseeker

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Re: Analog Disovery as Audio Analyzer
« Reply #124 on: July 14, 2017, 07:38:42 AM »
Thanks azer. I don't know if it'll run as-is from the already-installed files. My PC already has all the proper registry entries, folders, etc. created by the installer, so I don't know what it'll do on a clean system. Someone very familiar with the Windows installer may be able to take the next step to make it installable. I see the manifest and config files in your archive, but haven't worked with Windows installers in decades, so I'm unsure if that has all the necessary information.

The processor architecture in my version is different from yours. Interesting. So, the app and/or .Net version that they were built for may be sufficiently different.

Mine:
<assemblyIdentity name="AudioAnalyzerSuite" processorArchitecture="msil" version="1.0.26.374" />

Yours:
<assemblyIdentity name="AudioAnalyzerSuite" processorArchitecture="x86" version="1.0.358.107" />
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 07:50:01 AM by bitseeker »
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