Author Topic: Batteroo testing  (Read 121894 times)

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Offline BarsMonster

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Re: Batteroo testing
« Reply #600 on: July 01, 2017, 05:44:29 PM »
I just hope they had the foresight to include some kind of configuration option for other output voltage (ranges)  ;D

Unlikely, they specify 1.8V as maximum voltage. They likely used 1.8V transistors in the design (lowest resistance per unit of area).
But derivative design could have been made with 3.3-5V transistors.
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Offline dexters_lab

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Re: Batteroo testing
« Reply #601 on: July 01, 2017, 06:48:51 PM »
Still no word from Zeptobars... I thought a batteriser was sent more than a month ago by Dexters_lab.
Curious to see the die. Any news about this?

Sorry for keeping you all waiting:
https://zeptobars.com/en/read/BTR004K-Batteriser-Batteroo-switched-capacitor-boost-dcdc

great work! thanks for decapping this one and posting it up, really interesting to see under the cover!

given the custom design and the effort gone into packaging it into the sleeve it seems they really did put effort into designing the batteriser to work well, such a shame the theory that underpins it is just flawed
"A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
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Offline amspire

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Re: Batteroo testing
« Reply #602 on: July 01, 2017, 07:20:46 PM »
given the custom design and the effort gone into packaging it into the sleeve it seems they really did put effort into designing the batteriser to work well, such a shame the theory that underpins it is just flawed
The technology is very impressive. In terms of idle current and current capacity for the voltages, it seems to be way ahead of anything else on the market. We are talking about being much better then the best that Linear Technology, Analog Devices, Microchip Technologies and Maxim can do. An amazing technical achievement

If the design was tweaked, it could be one of the best low voltage boost converter chips available. I am a huge fan of AA and AAA cells  - they have been around for over 60 years and will be here for many decades to come. For devices that use low power, that need easily replaceable batteries or that can be used for decades, AA and AAA are the best. With modern efficiency, it is possible to power useful devices of just one AA or AAA battery cell. With the very low idle current on this boost converter, the converter does not need to be switched off, making controller soft power switching possible.

There is not currently a decent converter chip on the market that can do this. The idle current is too high, and the maximum output current when the battery is at 0.9v is often pretty low. A modified Batterizer chip could be perfect.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Batteroo testing
« Reply #603 on: July 01, 2017, 07:34:58 PM »
I just hope they had the foresight to include some kind of configuration option for other output voltage (ranges)  ;D

Unlikely, they specify 1.8V as maximum voltage. They likely used 1.8V transistors in the design (lowest resistance per unit of area).
But derivative design could have been made with 3.3-5V transistors.

Weren't they in the process of making a 9V Batteriser?
They in fact promised to deliver one to every IGG backer.
 

Offline Luminax

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Re: Batteroo testing
« Reply #604 on: July 06, 2017, 11:12:22 AM »
I remember something about Fitipower's IC at the other thread... perhaps if someone can get their hands on one so we can do a die comparison
Jack of all trade - Master of some... I hope...
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Batteroo testing
« Reply #605 on: October 11, 2017, 12:02:52 PM »
A little necroposting because I promised an update when the time came.

One of the items much discussed was the Apple wireless keyboard. So, back in February, the 17th to be precise, I put two new Duracell Industrial alkaline AAs in my Apple Bluetooth keyboard. After a few weeks of low battery warnings, starting at an indicated 10% according to Apple's drivers, today it got to 4% and I decided it was finally time to change the batteries.

Interestingly, the unloaded voltage of the cells I just took out were 1.16V and 1.17V (10Mohm meter, so a tiny load ~120nA) - suspiciously close to the 1.2V figure Batteroo were always flinging about, perhaps it's where they got that figure from initially.

This is one of the rare occasions where measuring a cell's unloaded voltage is probably justified as that's what the keyboard itself is most likely going to be measuring. That is, the load the keyboard presents is negligible except when it's transmitting, when it is transmitting it pulls a sharp current pulse and then goes back to idling. Obviously it's unlikely that it is going to have the measurement sophistication to measure the battery during a pulse, measurement during idle is much more likely both from an instrumentation point of view and a coding point of view.

Just for completeness I also measured each cell with a 4k load (an educated guess at a mean loading in circuit) in parallel and got the same voltages, with the only difference being instead of a steady reading at the 10 uV level it was slowly drifting down, as you would expect.

Anyway, the Batterizer/Batteroo testing issue is a dead one but I remember promising an update when I needed to change batteries so that was it. It might be a useful data point for someone in the future.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline brainwash

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Re: Batteroo testing
« Reply #606 on: November 12, 2017, 10:39:49 AM »
One month later I can also chime in on the last fact: I have several Logitech devices which seem to run forever on standard cells. However, when low-voltage strikes, they start behaving erratically: the mouse loses clicks and keyboard fails to wake up on first keypress. The unloaded voltage is always around 1.2V, but, there is an LED on pairing and it tries to draw a large amount of current (1-2mA vs <10uA) on first user action. Also, the switches pull some current when actuated, not significant for us Arduino types, but every 10uA counts at that level. Just some food for thought.

I still think the current uC technology is amazing; "some" years ago I had a 1.3MP digital camera with a segmented <1" LCD that could only take 30-40 pics on 2xAAAs. It drew ~200mA while on and ~75mA while "off". It was probably the programmers' fault but nonetheless..
 


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