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Offline coppice

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #600 on: December 08, 2016, 07:35:44 PM »
Heat is Gaussian noise. Radar signals from all the nodes of a phased array are coherent. Its a completely different situation. If you think a large amount of energy is lost in the beam forming of a phased array, where does it go? Conservation of energy says it can't just vanish.

Look at the numbers I posted above. Saturation of the air occurs at quite small distances.
If it as that simple then uBeam would have been a cake walk and done long ago (Perry wasn't the first with the idea, by several decades)
Did I dispute that in any way? I responded to someone saying the energy is not focussed into the main beam of a phased array. For suitably low power levels it is. For high power levels, where non-linearities become serious, everything falls apart, regardless of which beam forming technique is used.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #601 on: December 08, 2016, 07:53:56 PM »
For high power levels, where non-linearities become serious, everything falls apart, regardless of which beam forming technique is used.

And that's the trick, they are, by necessity, pumping in huge amounts of power.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #602 on: December 08, 2016, 08:00:54 PM »
For high power levels, where non-linearities become serious, everything falls apart, regardless of which beam forming technique is used.

And that's the trick, they are, by necessity, pumping in huge amounts of power.
Well, of course. What's your point?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #603 on: December 08, 2016, 08:01:34 PM »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #604 on: December 08, 2016, 08:09:36 PM »
For high power levels, where non-linearities become serious, everything falls apart, regardless of which beam forming technique is used.
And that's the trick, they are, by necessity, pumping in huge amounts of power.
Well, of course. What's your point?

Just validating your point. I'm not trying to argue.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #605 on: December 09, 2016, 04:22:53 AM »
I'm surprised ppl are thinking that when out of phase wavefronts meet, the energy just disappears forever. The wavefronts just pass through each other, and eventually after traveling, will meet other in phase wavefronts and become usable energy again.
In the case of RF, at great distance from the transmitter.
In the case of US, after bouncing off the near target surface and filling the room with hotspots and coldspots, I bit like sitting in a microwave oven but without the rotating table - so keep moving.  :)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 04:56:47 AM by StillTrying »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #606 on: December 09, 2016, 04:53:43 AM »
In the case of US, after bouncing off the near target surface and filling the room with hotspots and coldspots, I bit like sitting in a microwave oven but without the rotating table - so keep moving.  :)

Keep moving your phone around looking at the charging power on screen. Stand very still when you find a hotspot...  :-+

So much better than those pesky cables! :popcorn:

 

Offline edy

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #607 on: December 09, 2016, 05:59:22 AM »
So the uBeam team has grown, more investors are piling in the money, they have a large team working on it. They've got former HP and Tektronix engineering executive Larry Pendergrass joining in:



And here is their team:



So what gives? Do they have something or not? Are they just throwing a dungheap of money (from big investors) at what we call a type of Google "Moon-Shot" wall to see if something sticks? I thought this thing was BUSTED a long time ago? That to deliver the power you are looking at needing to charge a device, you'd fry everyone's eardrums or fry their innards in the process?

I don't get it.... Have people LOST THEIR FRIGGIN' MINDS?  :palm: :-//  Wasn't uBeam already trying to do this for years and failed? This seems to be old news already:

http://www.eevblog.com/2014/08/07/ubeam-ultrasonic-wireless-charging-a-familiar-fish-smell/

Seems like it's going the same way as Solar Roadways, Airing, Batterizer...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 06:03:10 AM by edy »
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Online amspire

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #608 on: December 09, 2016, 09:53:13 AM »
That to deliver the power you are looking at needing to charge a device, you'd fry everyone's eardrums or fry their innards in the process?
Haven't you read the safety page on the UBeam website?

Quote
Completely safe, even when standing directly in front of the beam

One of the reasons they give is that:

Quote
Unlike radio frequency emissions, ultrasound decays rapidly in the air.

Which is great ... as long as you aren't trying to transmit power via ultrasonics.  |O

The last comment is interesting as the decay is not that rapid at 50kHz or 100khz. Just 1 or 2 dB per meter. Are they thinking of using 1MHz ultrasonics?

 

Offline Delta

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #609 on: December 09, 2016, 10:19:26 AM »
That's the elephant in Meredith's room:  If there's not enough power in the air to cause harm, then there ain't enough to charge a phone...
 

Offline l0rd_hex

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #610 on: December 09, 2016, 01:10:56 PM »


The other day I heard a 'celebrity' on the TV talking about "building my brand" (he'd released a perfume). Now, all this guy has ever actually done is to be the son of a very famous footballer.

Sometime in the last few years some idiots have decided that a 'brand' is worth something on its own, rather than representing the goodwill acquired over many years by a well operated business. Consequently people talk about 'brand building' as an end in itself, rather than providing a better product, service, working environment etc. Many young people (particularly Americans, especially from the West Coast) have bought into this, not knowing that a 'brand' or reputation once meant something more than mere surface appearance. Furthermore, 'brand' and personal reputation have become conflated as if one's reputation is some sort of commodity. I suspect that Ms Perry has bought into all this and is working hard at 'building her brand' not understanding that for it to be worth anything there has to be some substance underneath the gloss.

It's funny that you say this because it looks like Perry is hawking her Dad's snake oil skin care maintenance regime lotion.. stuff..

https://twitter.com/meredithperry/status/801891676885110784
"I haven't paid taxes in six years, and I'm not getting busted by a damn sandwich." - Benjamin Franklin
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #611 on: December 09, 2016, 01:34:57 PM »
So the uBeam team has grown, more investors are piling in the money, they have a large team working on it.

I've heard the opposite. Most/all of the original acoustics experts have left. Two VP's of engineering have came and gone.

Quote
They've got former HP and Tektronix engineering executive Larry Pendergrass joining in:

They must have paid him a lot.
Shame there isn't much he can do without acoustics expertise.

Quote
And here is their team:


An article a while back who toured their big LA headquarters said it was like a ghost town.

Quote
So what gives? Do they have something or not? Are they just throwing a dungheap of money (from big investors) at what we call a type of Google "Moon-Shot" wall to see if something sticks? I thought this thing was BUSTED a long time ago?

It was. But the investors will never admit that, they can't, they have put other people's money into it. Best they can hope for is it dies of natural causes they can blame on X instead of admit they were duped by a dog'n'pony show.

Quote
Seems like it's going the same way as Solar Roadways, Airing, Batterizer...

It's guaranteed by the laws of engineers and market economics.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #612 on: December 09, 2016, 02:24:17 PM »
What is that weird structure in the background...?
 

Offline l0rd_hex

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #613 on: December 09, 2016, 02:28:55 PM »
Another bout of inspire-arreah from the Scam-a-llama herself!
"I haven't paid taxes in six years, and I'm not getting busted by a damn sandwich." - Benjamin Franklin
 

Offline djos

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #614 on: December 09, 2016, 02:30:40 PM »
Another bout of inspire-arreah from the Scam-a-llama herself!

I think I just puked a little in my mouth!  :palm:
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
 

Offline l0rd_hex

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #615 on: December 09, 2016, 02:35:20 PM »
I think I just puked a little in my mouth!  :palm:

Just your mouth? I wish I were that lucky...
"I haven't paid taxes in six years, and I'm not getting busted by a damn sandwich." - Benjamin Franklin
 

Offline edy

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #616 on: December 09, 2016, 02:50:04 PM »
That's one crazy Twitter tag line....

Quote
Founder & CEO @uBeam. Power-suckler on the teat of life. Uses a machete to cut through red tape.

See the attachment...  I like the Voyager diagram/schematic she uses as a background.


Have you seen this posting?
https://twitter.com/meredithperry/status/639891833431162880

Quote
In hospitals, bacteria can spread via electric outlets. With @ubeam, hospitals will be cleaner & safer for patients.

I give her credit for one thing... She's got some interesting Twitter feed (browse the photo postings for a taste, I've included some screenshots below). Certainly not something you'd expect from a $23 million company CEO. She's flying everywhere, meeting all these famous people.... Presidents, Celebrities, etc. They have a space "manufacturing facility" they call in Santa Monica. It's great to spend other people's money when there is no accountability and you can have lawyers basically set up the corporation so you are not personally liable for anything when it loses all the money. Pictures of her with Bill Clinton, Barak Obama, lots of famous celebrities, lots of her with her pet pig, some selfies, pictures of people charging their phones and saying how uBeam will change all that... and inspirational quotes. She's quite an accomplished person and done a lot of stuff! A bit of NSFW type pictures as well thrown in.  :-DD 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 03:13:02 PM by edy »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #617 on: December 09, 2016, 03:02:49 PM »
Another bout of inspire-arreah from the Scam-a-llama herself!

Still zero information about the result, just about her personal struggles ::)
She wouldn't have had to struggle if she just published results to prove her tech is at least somewhat viable.
 

Offline edy

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #618 on: December 09, 2016, 03:58:41 PM »
I've attached some examples of typical stuff from Meredith Perry's Twitter media feed. There's not much in there about the actual progress on uBeam. Judge for yourself. She's having one heck of a time at this stage in her life, globe-trotting and rubbing noses with the rich & famous. I'm sure it's very exciting to be part of a multi-million dollar venture. I'd love to see the development milestones.... Research results... Test cases... More proof of concepts. Are they ever planning on making that available?

Her brother the profane rapper Buckwheat Groats https://www.facebook.com/thegroatsofbuckwheat/ seems to be quite an interesting character too. He seems to be earning an honest living making music, performing and selling albums. Good on him! http://benperrymedia.weebly.com/bio.html  He sounds like a funny guy if you like that kind of comedy....



The addition of HP and Tektronic Engineering executive Larry Pendergrass to the mix builds confidence in the company, but is it only to satisfy investor need? Could they be looking to shift their position in the company or sell their shares perhaps to "pass on the buck" and get out while they can. Here's what Pendergrass writes about uBeam (https://medium.com/@meredithperry/former-hp-and-tektronix-engineering-executive-larry-pendergrass-joins-ubeam-b08597f45a24#.8t8mohuxm):

Quote
“Having looked carefully at the technology and the business, I have every confidence that this company will change the way we think of charging our devices. The progress that has been made is tremendous. The skill level in the team is very impressive. And I am confident that my business, engineering, and science experience will support the development and commercialization of this vital new technology.”

They also add the following:

Quote
We’re also excited to announce a new addition to our Technical Advisory Board, Chaired by Matthew O’Donnell, PhD, a world renowned expert in ultrasound and Dean Emeritus of Engineering at the University of Washington.

I wonder if there is a point where people lose an objective view of reality and start to be surrounded by, or create their own environment that positively reinforces their delusional aspirations even when it flies in the face of rational scientific principles. When investors get involved, "yes"-men start to spout inspirational B.S. and young people start jumping in to milk the ride for money as long as possible... the project takes on a life of it's own and perpetuates in a kind of bubble. I must admit though.... I do give credit to uBeam for *NOT* using crowd-sourcing to obtain funding. It is one thing for investors to give money, it is quite another for crowd-sourced money to be scammed out of people (like Airing, Batteriser, Solar Roadways, etc.).

The uBeam, as crazy as it may sound, at least is operating under established legal frameworks and with parties who should know the risks and were prepared to take them. For that reason, I say if Meredith Perry wants to burn the money... let her burn it for the next 10 years. Maybe they'll discover something else along the way that actually is viable and turn them a profit. Otherwise, I wish her luck and if she wants to stick up her middle finger to all these investors along the way.... serves them right.  :-DD
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 04:26:53 PM by edy »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #619 on: December 09, 2016, 05:30:19 PM »
The addition of HP and Tektronic Engineering executive Larry Pendergrass to the mix builds confidence in the company, but is it only to satisfy investor need? Could they be looking to shift their position in the company or sell their shares perhaps to "pass on the buck" and get out while they can. Here's what Pendergrass writes about uBeam (https://medium.com/@meredithperry/former-hp-and-tektronix-engineering-executive-larry-pendergrass-joins-ubeam-b08597f45a24#.8t8mohuxm):

Quote
“Having looked carefully at the technology and the business, I have every confidence that this company will change the way we think of charging our devices. The progress that has been made is tremendous. The skill level in the team is very impressive. And I am confident that my business, engineering, and science experience will support the development and commercialization of this vital new technology.”

So this guy joins after 5 years of development and all he's got to say between the lines is basically "it has potential"?
Nothing about how he's seen the technology and it's amazing and it works etc, just talk about "progress", "development", and commercialisation"?
You'd expect that kind of talk for a newly founded company, not one that's had 10's of millions of dollars invested over 5 years and some of the best experts in field working for them (now all since left?)
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #620 on: December 09, 2016, 05:38:19 PM »
Haven't you read the safety page on the UBeam website?

Quote
Completely safe, even when standing directly in front of the beam

One of the reasons they give is that:

Quote
Unlike radio frequency emissions, ultrasound decays rapidly in the air.


That's one of the funniest things I've read in a long time....

"Don't worry, our technology is completely safe - it doesn't actually work, so you have nothing to fear!"
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #621 on: December 09, 2016, 05:46:50 PM »
Haven't you read the safety page on the UBeam website?
Quote
Completely safe, even when standing directly in front of the beam
One of the reasons they give is that:
Quote
Unlike radio frequency emissions, ultrasound decays rapidly in the air.
That's one of the funniest things I've read in a long time....
"Don't worry, our technology is completely safe - it doesn't actually work, so you have nothing to fear!"

If it's so safe why does the beam switch off when human flesh is in the way?



And I'd love to know how they are doing that:


So if the receiver is say 4m away from the transmitter, how do they know I put my hand in the way 1m from the transmitter?
 

Offline l0rd_hex

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #622 on: December 09, 2016, 06:19:49 PM »
So if the receiver is say 4m away from the transmitter, how do they know I put my hand in the way 1m from the transmitter?

Reminds me of a quote from the movie All the President's Men:

I was at a party once, and, uh, Liddy put his hand over a candle, and he kept it there. He kept it right in the flame until his flesh was burned. Somebody said, "What's the trick?" And Liddy said, "The trick is not minding."

Maybe a new slogan for UBeam?
"I haven't paid taxes in six years, and I'm not getting busted by a damn sandwich." - Benjamin Franklin
 

Offline The_Next_Theranos

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #623 on: December 09, 2016, 08:08:41 PM »
Quote
“Having looked carefully at the technology and the business, I have every confidence that this company will change the way we think of charging our devices. The progress that has been made is tremendous. The skill level in the team is very impressive. And I am confident that my business, engineering, and science experience will support the development and commercialization of this vital new technology.”

So this guy joins after 5 years of development and all he's got to say between the lines is basically "it has potential"?
It has potential to change the way we think about charging our devices. It doesn't have the potential to change how we actually charge our devices.  ;D
 

Online amspire

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #624 on: December 10, 2016, 12:30:24 AM »
So if the receiver is say 4m away from the transmitter, how do they know I put my hand in the way 1m from the transmitter?
And how much ultrasound will reach your ear when you are talking on the phone while the UBeam is charging it?

Quote
Ultrasound has been in used safely over 100 years. It has been studied extensively ..... There is no risk of a cumulative effect

Trouble is they don't seemed to have actually read the research papers from that 100 years, such as

http://archiwum.ciop.pl/59815   or   https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/aoa.2013.38.issue-2/aoa-2013-0019/aoa-2013-0019.xml

To have a chance of being safe, then have to a make it impossible for you ear to receive something less then 1/100000th of the beam strength. Even if their beam is so perfectly focussed that zero energy leaves the beam, it only takes a tiny object in the beams path to radiate potentially damaging ultrasound levels.

UBeam claim the investors did an extensive safety audit before investing.

It would be great to actually see that audit.

 


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