Author Topic: The uBeam FAQ  (Read 294358 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #850 on: June 26, 2017, 09:39:51 am »
This photo is interesting.
Not only because of the PCB array panel of some description (the beam forming array panel?), but look at the whiteboard behind her.
It looks like there are classic design goals, the specs of which are covered up by post-it notes.
Quote
2. Cheap
3. Thin
4. Light
5. Durable

You can see number 5 in another photo here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/06/01/ubeams-meredith-perry-shows-her-stealth-wireless-charging-technology-really-works/102336880/

Why are such basic design goals on a whiteboard after 5 years of development, and when they said they were about to ramp up into production over a year ago?  :-//
Of course based on what they showed recently in a video, yeah, they need massive amounts of work on all of those points.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #851 on: June 26, 2017, 09:52:20 am »
Great comment:

 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #852 on: June 26, 2017, 09:57:21 am »
Whatever happened to this?
Don't tell me they weren't real!

https://youtu.be/dwpJsWb-jWM?t=1m2s
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #853 on: June 26, 2017, 10:01:06 am »
Worth re-posting, Mark Suster on how he funds things:

https://youtu.be/dwpJsWb-jWM?t=6m6s
 

Offline amspire

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #854 on: June 26, 2017, 12:02:21 pm »
This photo is interesting.
Not only because of the PCB array panel of some description (the beam forming array panel?), but look at the whiteboard behind her.
It looks like there are classic design goals, the specs of which are covered up by post-it notes.
Quote
2. Cheap
3. Thin
4. Light
5. Durable

You can see number 5 in another photo here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/06/01/ubeams-meredith-perry-shows-her-stealth-wireless-charging-technology-really-works/102336880/

Why are such basic design goals on a whiteboard after 5 years of development, and when they said they were about to ramp up into production over a year ago?  :-//
Of course based on what they showed recently in a video, yeah, they need massive amounts of work on all of those points.
If that whiteboard was a presentation to USA Today, it makes sense they would be stating the basic goals.

But the thing that stuns me is they actually went out and bought a brand new high-end phone to prove the results were not faked, and then didn't require proof that the "receiving " box attached to the phone did not contain batteries or supercaps.

I have no idea why that box has to be so thick anyway. What is in it?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #855 on: June 26, 2017, 01:39:58 pm »
But the thing that stuns me is they actually went out and bought a brand new high-end phone to prove the results were not faked, and then didn't require proof that the "receiving " box attached to the phone did not contain batteries or supercaps.
I have no idea why that box has to be so thick anyway. What is in it?

The commercial transducers are thick.
And yep, most likely a storage battery, as IIRC that is described in their patent.
So probably a transducer PCB on the back of another controller PCB, and the battery behind that. But yeah, seems overly thick even for that.
 

Offline amspire

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #856 on: June 26, 2017, 01:49:32 pm »
There are some interesting things said in that USA Today post.
Quote
Asked why the battery percentage didn’t appear to increase rapidly, Perry shakes her head.

“You’re thinking about it the wrong way, this is about a paradigm shift,” she says. “If you’re moving from your car to a coffee shop to work and your phone is charging while you’re using it, it’s no long about what percentage you’re at. You could stay at 1% all day.”

This seems to be implying that uBeam have accepted that the charging power will be pretty low - particularly with multiple devices, and are trying to convince people that as long as you can get enough to match the phone's idle dissipation, the product works.

Quote
n a cramped basement office, Perry and a number of colleagues stood in front of another boxy ultrasound transmitter outfitted with an infrared camera vision system programmed to track multiple phones at once. As long as a phone in its case didn’t tilt more than 45 degrees, in other words sufficient for checking messages, the charging icon remained lit.

The tracking system could be very simple - perhaps a cheap camera module tracking IR LEDS on the receivers. Most cameras can see IR LEDS fine. It could be as simple as seeing a flashing code on a pixel on the camera and time multiplexing some power in that direction. By using multiplexing, tracking a large number of devices would be simple. A tracking system like this could even be implemented on an Arduino.

Quote
Perry flipped the switch on a large white box, about the size of a ceiling tile. A quiet hum filled the conference room as the entrepreneur asked her visitor to pick up the phone and hold it in front of the box about about four feet away.

When was the last time you heard a hum from a modern power supply? Have they got a massive transformer or is the hum the sound of powerful cooling fans?

If uBeam have developed a cheap high powered dense ultrasonic array, that could possibly be worth more then the $26 million for other uses, even if it is ultimately useless for power charging. That might be the game that is being played.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 02:32:49 pm by amspire »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #857 on: June 26, 2017, 02:29:58 pm »
There are some interesting things said in that USA Today post.
Quote
Asked why the battery percentage didn’t appear to increase rapidly, Perry shakes her head.

“You’re thinking about it the wrong way, this is about a paradigm shift,” she says. “If you’re moving from your car to a coffee shop to work and your phone is charging while you’re using it, it’s no long about what percentage you’re at. You could stay at 1% all day.”

This seems to be implying that uBeam have accepted that the charging power will be pretty low - particularly with multiple devices, and are trying to convince people that as long as you can get enough to match the phone's idle dissipation, the product works.

Yep, which is why they have never said anything other then "1.5W" (without any specifics given). That tells you everything you need to know.
They made the claim at one point that it would charge faster than wires. Oops, it's slower than even the slowest wire.

Quote
Quote
n a cramped basement office, Perry and a number of colleagues stood in front of another boxy ultrasound transmitter outfitted with an infrared camera vision system programmed to track multiple phones at once. As long as a phone in its case didn’t tilt more than 45 degrees, in other words sufficient for checking messages, the charging icon remained lit.

The tracking system could be very simple - perhaps a cheap camera module tracking IR LEDS on the receivers. Most cameras can see IR LEDS fine. It could be as simple as seeing a flashing code on a pixel on the camera and time multiplexing some power in that direction. By using multiplexing, tracking a large number of devices would be simple. A tracking system like this could even be implemented on an Arduino.

It was pretty clearly doing visual box tracking of the bright thick white frame on the back of the receiver.

Quote
Quote
Perry flipped the switch on a large white box, about the size of a ceiling tile. A quiet hum filled the conference room as the entrepreneur asked her visitor to pick up the phone and hold it in front of the box about about four feet away.

When was the last time you heard a hum from a modern power supply? Have they got a massive transformer or is the hum the sound of powerful cooling fans?

If uBeam have developed a cheap high powered dense ultrasonic array, that could possibly be worth more then the $26 million for other uses, even if it is ultimately useless for power charging. That might be the game that is being played.

Not a steerable one they haven't. At least they haven't shown it.
That small on in the room pretty clearly does not do beamforming or tracking.
 

Offline amspire

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #858 on: June 26, 2017, 02:43:42 pm »

Quote
n a cramped basement office, Perry and a number of colleagues stood in front of another boxy ultrasound transmitter outfitted with an infrared camera vision system programmed to track multiple phones at once. As long as a phone in its case didn’t tilt more than 45 degrees, in other words sufficient for checking messages, the charging icon remained lit.

The tracking system could be very simple - perhaps a cheap camera module tracking IR LEDS on the receivers. Most cameras can see IR LEDS fine. It could be as simple as seeing a flashing code on a pixel on the camera and time multiplexing some power in that direction. By using multiplexing, tracking a large number of devices would be simple. A tracking system like this could even be implemented on an Arduino.

It was pretty clearly doing visual box tracking of the bright thick white frame on the back of the receiver.
This IR camera solution was "another" box that solved the problem of the limited range and tracking of the first box. So they have two different tracking solutions and it seems like the IR camera one may be the more versatile one.
Quote

Quote
Quote
Perry flipped the switch on a large white box, about the size of a ceiling tile. A quiet hum filled the conference room as the entrepreneur asked her visitor to pick up the phone and hold it in front of the box about about four feet away.

When was the last time you heard a hum from a modern power supply? Have they got a massive transformer or is the hum the sound of powerful cooling fans?

If uBeam have developed a cheap high powered dense ultrasonic array, that could possibly be worth more then the $26 million for other uses, even if it is ultimately useless for power charging. That might be the game that is being played.

Not a steerable one they haven't. At least they haven't shown it.
That small on in the room pretty clearly does not do beamforming or tracking.

If they have an imaging specialist like Matt O’Donnell onboard as a chief technology adviser, that makes me think they have a long term strategy in the imaging market rather then power transfer. If they are making an array with thousands of transducers, imaging makes more sense then a charger.

It does not mean that they are working on imaging and complex beamforming right now, but Matt seems to be excited about the transducers. He didn't say he was excited about the phone charging, just the transducers.
 

Online djos

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #859 on: June 26, 2017, 02:52:10 pm »
Yep, which is why they have never said anything other then "1.5W" (without any specifics given). That tells you everything you need to know.
They made the claim at one point that it would charge faster than wires. Oops, it's slower than even the slowest wire.

They'd be better off burning their investors cash trying to make wireless charging work using WiFi as the "power source". At least that is legally allowed to put out up to 4 watts irrc (even that is likely highly implausible).
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline ludzinc

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #860 on: June 26, 2017, 03:21:40 pm »
.. imaging makes more sense then a charger.


*than
 

Offline VNFTW

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #861 on: June 27, 2017, 02:12:15 am »
If you can make it through her TedX video, try to make it through this:
http://meredithperry.tumblr.com/post/106297094145/a-brief-negation-of-time
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #862 on: June 27, 2017, 02:38:05 am »
If you can make it through her TedX video, try to make it through this:
http://meredithperry.tumblr.com/post/106297094145/a-brief-negation-of-time

Blimey, her tumblr posts are the very definition of why narcissism and self-indulgence are such a turn-off.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #863 on: June 27, 2017, 04:21:52 am »
If you can make it through her TedX video, try to make it through this:
http://meredithperry.tumblr.com/post/106297094145/a-brief-negation-of-time

Jesus. I was going to post a few quotes from that in here, but as its just her thoughts, it would be unfair to criticize them.  It did read quite a bit like the sort of enthusiastic posts made by those who follow the 'free energy' crowd.  Picking bits and pieces of theories (like misinterpreting and abusing anything 'quantum'), lumping them together, and using that as proof that they must be right.


 

Offline timb

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The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #864 on: June 27, 2017, 01:23:26 pm »
Quote
Meredith Perry's Dumbass Tumbler:
“The universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.” –JBS Haldane

*Pictures the Universe as RuPaul.* Mmmm, girlfriend, that's one Big Bang I'd love to be part of! But you better leave your dark matter at home, because I'll be throwing plenty of shade! *Snaps Fingers* Shanté, you stay. Sashay away! *Struts down the catwalk.*
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; e.g., Cheez Whiz, Hot Dogs and RF.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #865 on: June 27, 2017, 01:29:55 pm »
*Pictures the Universe as RuPaul.* Mmmm, girlfriend, that's one Big Bang I'd love to be part of! But you better leave your dark matter at home, because I'll be throwing plenty of shade! *Snaps Fingers* Shanté, you stay. Sashay away! *Struts down the catwalk.*

That's some Pretty Pretentious Polysyllabic Prose there!
 

Offline daqq

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #866 on: June 27, 2017, 02:40:50 pm »
Quote
If uBeam have developed a cheap high powered dense ultrasonic array, that could possibly be worth more then the $26 million for other uses, even if it is ultimately useless for power charging. That might be the game that is being played.
The system starts of as kickstarter phone charger, ends up as remote pigeon scaring device. That certainly is a paradigm shift.
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
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Online Fungus

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #867 on: June 27, 2017, 06:16:59 pm »
Quote
If uBeam have developed a cheap high powered dense ultrasonic array, that could possibly be worth more then the $26 million for other uses, even if it is ultimately useless for power charging. That might be the game that is being played.
The system starts of as kickstarter phone charger, ends up as remote pigeon scaring device. That certainly is a paradigm shift.

We prefer to call it a "pivot".
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #868 on: June 27, 2017, 08:44:29 pm »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #869 on: June 28, 2017, 12:05:07 am »
OK, so we now ask Meredith why she banned a guy simply for asking an obvious question.



 

Offline Bud

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #870 on: June 28, 2017, 03:11:46 am »
What is the point of that connection link going to the hanging pennis?
 

Online coppice

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #871 on: June 28, 2017, 05:31:28 am »
Quote
If uBeam have developed a cheap high powered dense ultrasonic array, that could possibly be worth more then the $26 million for other uses, even if it is ultimately useless for power charging. That might be the game that is being played.
The system starts of as kickstarter phone charger, ends up as remote pigeon scaring device. That certainly is a paradigm shift.
To be fair, most startups which reach IPO are doing something very different from their original idea by the time of the IPO. IF uBeam could reach IPO with a successful idea that has any connection to focused ultrasonic beams they would be closer to their original concept than most companies. That's quite a big if.
 

Offline max_torque

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #872 on: June 28, 2017, 08:05:03 pm »
There are some interesting things said in that USA Today post.
Quote
Asked why the battery percentage didn’t appear to increase rapidly, Perry shakes her head.

“You’re thinking about it the wrong way, this is about a paradigm shift,” she says. “If you’re moving from your car to a coffee shop to work and your phone is charging while you’re using it, it’s no long about what percentage you’re at. You could stay at 1% all day.”

This seems to be implying that uBeam have accepted that the charging power will be pretty low - particularly with multiple devices, and are trying to convince people that as long as you can get enough to match the phone's idle dissipation, the product works.

Quote
n a cramped basement office, Perry and a number of colleagues stood in front of another boxy ultrasound transmitter outfitted with an infrared camera vision system programmed to track multiple phones at once. As long as a phone in its case didn’t tilt more than 45 degrees, in other words sufficient for checking messages, the charging icon remained lit.

The tracking system could be very simple - perhaps a cheap camera module tracking IR LEDS on the receivers. Most cameras can see IR LEDS fine. It could be as simple as seeing a flashing code on a pixel on the camera and time multiplexing some power in that direction. By using multiplexing, tracking a large number of devices would be simple. A tracking system like this could even be implemented on an Arduino.

Quote
Perry flipped the switch on a large white box, about the size of a ceiling tile. A quiet hum filled the conference room as the entrepreneur asked her visitor to pick up the phone and hold it in front of the box about about four feet away.

When was the last time you heard a hum from a modern power supply? Have they got a massive transformer or is the hum the sound of powerful cooling fans?

If uBeam have developed a cheap high powered dense ultrasonic array, that could possibly be worth more then the $26 million for other uses, even if it is ultimately useless for power charging. That might be the game that is being played.

Doesn't this make it a "maintainer" rather than a "charger".

Charging rather suggest that the battery is being increased in it's State of Charge doesn't it?
 

Offline StillTrying

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Online Fungus

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #874 on: July 04, 2017, 09:27:44 am »
http://liesandstartuppr.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/ubeam-withdraw-claims-of-wirelessly.html

Do people 'charge' their TVs? It seems a weird turn of phrase for somebody who complains about uBeam's grammar.
 


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