Author Topic: The uBeam FAQ  (Read 226168 times)

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Offline Fungus

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1050 on: November 14, 2017, 10:50:57 PM »
Still 24h left to throw a spanner in the works.

Ideas?
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1051 on: November 14, 2017, 10:56:13 PM »

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1052 on: November 14, 2017, 11:16:47 PM »
You should change the link: '>>>View full diligence material on uBeam here'   to something more appropriate and send to all recipients :)

Unfortunately you have to have an account with OurCrowd to get the info.
http://bit.ly/2zWb4Zu
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1053 on: November 14, 2017, 11:21:59 PM »
Quote
According to Allied Market Research, the global wireless charging market is set to reach $37.2B by 2022, growing at a CAGR of 44.7% from 2016 to 2022. Research shows that increased sales in the portable electronics and wearables market, as well as in the electric vehicles market, have created demand for new forms of energy, further driving the growth of the wireless charging market. uBeam believes their technology has applications that extend well beyond power transmission - into haptics, autonomous vehicles, rear parking sensors, and more. The rear parking sensor market alone is a several billion dollar industry.

The inevitable pivot is in the works?
 

Online coppice

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1054 on: November 15, 2017, 12:24:33 AM »
Quote
According to Allied Market Research, the global wireless charging market is set to reach $37.2B by 2022, growing at a CAGR of 44.7% from 2016 to 2022. Research shows that increased sales in the portable electronics and wearables market, as well as in the electric vehicles market, have created demand for new forms of energy, further driving the growth of the wireless charging market. uBeam believes their technology has applications that extend well beyond power transmission - into haptics, autonomous vehicles, rear parking sensors, and more. The rear parking sensor market alone is a several billion dollar industry.

The inevitable pivot is in the works?
Using parking sensors as a potential market is hilarious. Because it is a multi-billion dollar business everyone with a history in automotive electronics had attacked it quite aggressively, and robust low cost solutions already exist. How is anyone without a track record in the automotive industry going to get anywhere with that? The after-market market offers some possibilities, but there are already plenty of keen high volume Asian electronics companies serving that with low cost offerings.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1055 on: November 15, 2017, 01:57:28 AM »

Quote
According to Allied Market Research, the global wireless charging market is set to reach $37.2B...

Ya gotta love the spurious precision in "$37.2B" when in truth the estimate is probably only marginally better than throwing yarrow stalks in the air and seeing how they land.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Online coppice

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1056 on: November 15, 2017, 02:08:20 AM »

Quote
According to Allied Market Research, the global wireless charging market is set to reach $37.2B...

Ya gotta love the spurious precision in "$37.2B" when in truth the estimate is probably only marginally better than throwing yarrow stalks in the air and seeing how they land.
Its a basic principle used in market research. The number of digits quoted is inversely proportional the confidence it is reasonable to have in the estimate. Hence, based on a steady long term trend someone might say "I think we'll see a 4 or 5% growth next year", while someone stepping into the unknown will say "we estimate there will be 282,345 subscribers by the close of next year". A great example of this was CT2, the home digital cordless telephone they tried to fudge into a public system. UK market researchers quoted large estimates for subscriber take up, down to the very last subscriber. Actually, it was a shot in the dark, failed badly, and only handfuls signed up.
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1057 on: November 15, 2017, 02:25:45 AM »
Why are you all so worried about stupid investors putting their money on a scam? It's their money. (Hopefully, at least! If not, we should be concerned about something else than what they are buying with it...)

I'd understand this reaction if this was some well-crafted scam that's easy to fall into.

But everybody already knows this is a scam. By just Googling "uBeam", the first result page shows several disturbing hits to severely criticize it - including, but not limited to, Dave's debunk video.

I'd assume an investor at least uses 1 minute to Google the name of the company they're going to invest in.

And, I'd assume a sensible investor would check out the huge alarm bells going off everywhere, when they do that 1-minute Googling. You know, dig a bit deeper. Use $200 to get an opinion from an engineer consultant first. Things like that.

The fact someone invests in this kind of totally obvious and already well exposed scam shows they are either complete idiots, or just have too much money and they don't care about spending it in random scams the slightest.

But this is, indeed, interesting to follow  :popcorn:
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 02:27:30 AM by Siwastaja »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1058 on: November 15, 2017, 03:42:04 AM »
But everybody already knows this is a scam. By just Googling "uBeam", the first result page shows several disturbing hits to severely criticize it - including, but not limited to, Dave's debunk video.

Nope.

Remember that everybody sees different things when they use google. Potential investors might only see glowing reviews and paid-for news articles because they don't live in your world.

FWIW: When I tried it I didn't see any major criticisms until page 2 and Dave's video didn't appear at all unless I want to videos (where it was half way down the page). The first video I see is the uBeam demo where it's obviously "working"*. If an investor sees that one before they see Dave's, who will they believe?



(*) Working in the sense that you can get 1mA of charge if you hold a huge brick at just the right angle in front of the (multi)kW transmitter array.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 04:03:13 AM by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1059 on: November 15, 2017, 03:55:47 AM »
You should change the link: '>>>View full diligence material on uBeam here'   to something more appropriate and send to all recipients :)
Unfortunately you have to have an account with OurCrowd to get the info.

"Due diligence" for this type of investors means making sure no patents are being infringed and that it's not going to kill anybody in any obvious way.

eg. From the uBeam site:
"Over the last two years, as part of the extensive due diligence of our investors, we have employed third party ultrasound and safety regulation experts to investigate the uBeam system for both performance and safety. They were fully satisfied that uBeam exceeds all safety and regulatory requirements."

 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1060 on: November 15, 2017, 04:30:38 AM »
Well it damn near killed me laughing at it, does that count?
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1061 on: November 15, 2017, 05:16:33 AM »
MORE FUNDING!  :palm:
We’re hosting a webinar/conference call (Wednesday, November 15th at 7:00PM Israel / 12:00PM New York / 9:00AM San Francisco) for investors to meet CEO Meredith Perry and learn more about uBeam.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Offline Siwastaja

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1062 on: November 15, 2017, 05:55:51 AM »
If an investor sees that one before they see Dave's, who will they believe?

If a competent investor sees a critical video from a third party, they'll at least want to test: "is this true?" If they enter that mode, they should have no problem finding the info they need.

But indeed, not all investors are competent, or even sane. Some just want to believe, like the consumers as well.

Stupid people do exist, and availability of money does not necessarily correlate with the ability to use it wisely.

And how do we even know the real motives of said investors? They can play complex games too. So maybe they are not stupid at all, but know a way to play along with the scam and win money in the end. If that's the case, I guess Perry will be the one who needs to take all the blame in the end; that's how the story would be written.

But most likely, just a relatively uninterested investor throwing some peanuts around.

In any case:  :popcorn:
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1063 on: November 15, 2017, 07:27:05 AM »
Why are you all so worried about stupid investors putting their money on a scam? It's their money. (Hopefully, at least! If not, we should be concerned about something else than what they are buying with it...)

I'd understand this reaction if this was some well-crafted scam that's easy to fall into.

Because it could be pension money involved or something like that.
Also, if something has no hope of working as claimed, people should know that, as not everyone is capable of making engineering valuations. We as community need to do that for them.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1064 on: November 15, 2017, 07:28:44 AM »
You should change the link: '>>>View full diligence material on uBeam here'   to something more appropriate and send to all recipients :)
Unfortunately you have to have an account with OurCrowd to get the info.

"Due diligence" for this type of investors means making sure no patents are being infringed and that it's not going to kill anybody in any obvious way.

eg. From the uBeam site:
"Over the last two years, as part of the extensive due diligence of our investors, we have employed third party ultrasound and safety regulation experts to investigate the uBeam system for both performance and safety. They were fully satisfied that uBeam exceeds all safety and regulatory requirements."

It's the "in theory it's possible" camp  :palm:
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1065 on: November 15, 2017, 07:31:54 AM »
(*) Working in the sense that you can get 1mA of charge if you hold a huge brick at just the right angle in front of the (multi)kW transmitter array.

And that's the problem, it certainly "works".
It's the engineering behind making a practical marketable product that is the problem, and Joe Average finds it hard to understand the that hard to understand subtleties of that unfortunately. Hence the 2nd whiteboard in my video tried to address that.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1066 on: November 15, 2017, 07:49:28 AM »
Rumor has it there is a pitch deck for the new crowd funding investors floating around. Anyone got it?  ;D
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1067 on: November 15, 2017, 07:53:43 AM »
eg. From the uBeam site:
"Over the last two years, as part of the extensive due diligence of our investors, we have employed third party ultrasound and safety regulation experts to investigate the uBeam system for both performance and safety. They were fully satisfied that uBeam exceeds all safety and regulatory requirements."

It's the "in theory it's possible" camp  :palm:

You're missing something. There's a particular way of presenting things that is intended to get you to mentally fill in something that is not there, so when challenged later the writer can say "we didn't say that" and it's being used here.

Quote
"Over the last two years, as part of the extensive due diligence of our investors, we have employed third party ultrasound and safety regulation experts to investigate the uBeam system for both performance and safety. They were fully satisfied that uBeam exceeds all safety and regulatory requirements."

Notice how they tested for performance and safety - but only safety appears in the claim about the results of those tests. If you're not careful your brain will supply the missing 'performance' from the second sentence because of the "X and Y" structure in both sentences.

It falls into that category of things I call "lawyers lies", completely true, deliberately misleading, and you can't prove the latter in a court even though you know it's true.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline PaulReynolds

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1068 on: November 16, 2017, 04:28:15 AM »
 

Offline l0rd_hex

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1069 on: November 16, 2017, 07:21:24 AM »
I'm about halfway through this documentary and the similarities are... startling:

"I haven't paid taxes in six years, and I'm not getting busted by a damn sandwich." - Benjamin Franklin
 
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Offline StillTrying

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1070 on: November 16, 2017, 07:40:58 AM »
So will the conference call, or a transcript of it be posted on-line as proof of uBean's fantastical developments and future possibilities?

I think it would be a laugh a minute.

Offline Poolkeeper

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1071 on: November 16, 2017, 08:54:09 PM »
But they also say: As ultrasound isn’t on the electromagnetic spectrum, uBeam is therefore not limited by the regulatory, safety, and interference hurdles of its competitors. :D

So really no need to test for safety as nothing applies....
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1072 on: November 17, 2017, 12:01:46 AM »
Looks like this :horse: might keep limping along for another 2 years.

http://labusinessjournal.com/news/2017/nov/15/ubeam-raising-20m-series-b-round/

I wondered why the author seemed a bit cool on the idea.

UBeam to Ship Wireless Chargers Next Year  September 28, 2015
http://labusinessjournal.com/news/2015/sep/28/ubeam-ship-wireless-chargers-next-year/

Offline EEVblog

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1073 on: November 17, 2017, 12:39:13 AM »
Looks like this :horse: might keep limping along for another 2 years.

We'll still be here to keep them honest  ;D

Quote
http://labusinessjournal.com/news/2017/nov/15/ubeam-raising-20m-series-b-round/

Quote
Wireless charging startup uBeam Inc. is raising a $20 million Series B round from Upfront Ventures, Andreessen Horowitz, Founders Fund and Mark Cuban, among others, according to a presentation to prospective investors by Meredith Perry, the company’s chief executive.

The $20 million round is not complete, but would finance the Santa Monica startup’s operations for two years at the firm’s current cash burn rate

So they are burning through $10m a year in cash, or $830k a month. That's handy to know.

Quote
, Perry said in the webinar for prospective investors convened by Israeli crowdfunding company OurCrowd. Perry said another venture capital round could help the firm put an ultrasonic wireless energy product on market as soon as the third quarter of 2019.

Hmm, doesn't say what wireless energy product.

Quote
She did not respond to requests for comment.

Because she knows said product isn't going to be a practical phone charger.

Quote
UBeam stirred controversy within the scientific and venture capital communities in recent years after widely publicizing a claim to wirelessly charge electronics, such as cellphones, using ultrasonic waves sent through the air at distances of several feet. Critics said converting ultrasonic waves into electrical energy is possible in a rudimentary sense, but absent a technological breakthrough, they were doubtful the technology can perform as claimed.

Not doubtful, we are sure of it. And uBeam have said or demoed nothing in 5 years to even remotely refute that.

Quote
The firm has raised more than $26 million from investors since its founding in 2012. Investors include Menlo Park’s Andreesen Horowitz, Santa Monica’s Upfront Ventures, Peter Thiel’s Founder’s Fund as well as billionaire Mark Cuban and former Yahoo Inc. Chief Executive Marissa Mayer.

Suckers!  :-DD

Quote
The company has made some progress. In June, uBeam’s Perry demonstrated a brick-sized wireless charger receiving enough power to light up the battery icon on a cellphone in an interview with USA Today. However, she acknowledged for the first time a number of technology limitations, including the inability of the device to charge while its sits in a pants pocket, moves around a room, is positioned at angles greater than 45 degrees to its transmitter or at distances greater than 10 feet.

So yeah, she admits it will never be practical  :palm:
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 12:46:47 AM by EEVblog »
 

Offline ehughes

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Re: The uBeam FAQ
« Reply #1074 on: November 17, 2017, 03:05:37 AM »
They have headhunters looking for people with a  high level acoustics background to run their development team.     I just got contacted (I have 18 years experience with  degrees in electronics and acoustics) recently but the headhunter.     I politely declined ( I wouldn't touch this with a 10 ft pole).


The acoustics community (especially the people who have the right combination of physics and electronics skills) is small.    No one with any relevant experience or skills will touch this.     The people that are currently working there are not acoustics experts or are simply bleeding the company while they are waiting for something else.   No one who has ever looked at air absorption curves would ever think is a viable product.

Acoustics has  lots of useful applications.   Power transmission is not one of them.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 12:23:50 PM by ehughes »
 
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