Author Topic: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging  (Read 102193 times)

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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2015, 06:00:28 pm »
Some fun with domestic lamps (bulbs in the UK) follows  :)
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2015, 06:01:33 pm »
Lamp filiment
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2015, 06:04:24 pm »
Compact Energy saving lamp. Note the little filaments can be seen but the electronics package of this particular lamp was too dense to image well. I have found that most of my low energy lamps have failed with broken filaments so this appears to be their weak point, just like conventional l filament lamps.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 06:07:15 pm by Aurora »
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Offline TopLoser

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2015, 06:11:32 pm »
Lamp filiment

Wow, incredible resolution - if you look carefully you can see the filament is coiled twice.
 

Offline MagicSmoker

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2015, 06:27:37 pm »
Really cool stuff; thanks for starting this thread.

My favorite application for an x-ray imager is to check for voids in the die-attach solder in power semiconductor modules, but I suspect that will require way more than 35kV for the anode supply on the x-ray tube.



 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2015, 06:31:42 pm »
Guess what this is then ?   ;D
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2015, 06:40:45 pm »
The filament breaking on a CFL is actually an end result of the emitter material boiling off with cold starts. Eventually the exposed filament under the emitter will overheat in the thinnest spot and burn out, though the lamp will still light from the high voltage imposed on it. the main cause of failure is the electronics dying, generally the capacitors drying out. The lamp also has so little mercury in it that it will all eventually be bound up into the tube phosphors, so the lamp will not have the right vapour pressure inside to get full current so will dim out ( not helped by the phosphors getting degraded by the high heat and ion bombardment) and the voltage across the lamp gets higher and higher till it will not strike but puts the full ballast power into the filament till that burns out. Even when no longer emitting light the lamp draws power.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2015, 06:41:41 pm »
Guess what this is then ?   ;D

die cast long wheel base landy......
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2015, 07:01:26 pm »
Nope, not a Landrover, but it is a Diecast model  :)
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2015, 07:18:57 pm »
Wouldn't be a minimoke?
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2015, 07:25:59 pm »
SeanB,

Spot on

Its a Dinky Toys Diecast model of the MKI Mini Moke  ;D

Aurora
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2015, 07:30:23 pm »
There are still a few around here, mostly in the military. Used as personnel transport on flight lines.
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2015, 07:45:58 pm »
As an example of just how useful X-Ray can be when reverse engineering a sealed product......

The Hewlett Packard Logic Dart was a very clever little Logic 'analyzer' with just 3 channels. It was a graphical logic probe really but HP made a nice job of its design. The calculator and test equipment departments joined forces to design the instrument.

The probes that connected to the Logic Dart were a custom HP part and after the production of the Logic Dart ceased the leads became much in demand as they are the most likely part to break. The price of the lead sets has risen steeply in recent years due to rarity. It is not uncommon to see them sold for over £100 set.

When I first bought my Logic Dart, it was new but without the test leads. It was long believed in the HP user fraternity that the Logic Dart leads contained custom electronics and that rendered the Logic Dart useless without them. I am not one to believe such stories until I have proven it to myself. I dismantled the Logic Dart and found the three input channels were pretty much complete. There couldn't be that much in the leads surely ?

To cut a long story short, I got a chap to measure his Logic Dart leads with a multimeter to detect continuity or resistance. The results were not as useful as I had hoped. I did establish that the leads formed a potential divider with the Logic Dart's input resistance at the chassis socket. I designed what I thought was needed and it worked so I was happy. I released my findings to the HP fraternity. People could now make their own leads.

I later managed to buy a set of the Genuine HP leads and immediately placed one in an X-Ray machine  :) To that point in time, no one was willing to dismantle their precious probe leads as it would likely ruin the them, and they are too rare for that. I managed to get some decent images of the probe head and plug of the lead.

There were indeed components in both, but it was a very simple design and I was pleased to see that my design was correct in all aspects except I had omitted a diode. I had thought of needing a diode but had not been certain it was needed. The diode is in series with an excitation feed for Resistance tests and protects the Logic Dart from reverse voltage feeds. There is already a series protection diode inside the Logic Dart though so this is an HP belt and braces approach.

Anyway, the X-Ray images were good and they were made on an Industrial MicroFocus system.

I have just repeated the imaging using my MX-20. The images wipe the floor with those I made several years ago.

I include my latest images here. you can clearly see the dual diode package.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 07:59:45 pm by Aurora »
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2015, 07:46:35 pm »
More images of the probe head.

By changing the contrast and brightness settings in the Faxitron software I am able to include or exclude low density materials from the image. This can show the plastics or exclude them in order to get a clearer view of the metal elements in the probe.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 07:49:49 pm by Aurora »
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Offline dexters_lab

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2015, 08:10:53 pm »
awesome pics! :-+

any chance you making a video about the hardware & setup?

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2015, 08:38:55 pm »
With regret I am no videographer and have no experience of making web videos.

Aurora
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Online IconicPCB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2015, 09:14:02 pm »
Aurora,

Emma cheese it?
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2015, 09:21:37 pm »
Really impressive pictures.

How did you get such a great machine?

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2015, 09:32:18 pm »
It's just medical laboratory equipment that was disposed of under the 10 year rule. I bought it via eBay for £1K. It originally cost several tens of thousands. I am now good friends with two dealers in such equipment.

The unit came with the all important computer, interface and software. It had a very low image count so had seen very little use in its life.

I also have a complete spare MX-20 cabinet just in case the X-Ray generator pops its clogs.

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 09:34:18 pm by Aurora »
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2015, 09:53:33 pm »
It's bug time !

Some mealworms from my wife's bird food supply  ;D

Faxitron X-Ray units were designed to provide great images of biological samples.

Aurora
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Online IconicPCB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2015, 10:06:55 pm »
On the practical side, equipment licensing, operator liensing, premises licensing/certification...???
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2015, 10:13:55 pm »
A deceased butterfly .........  well as much as I could fit into the forums file size limitation

(No animals or insects were harmed in the making of these images  ;)  )
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2015, 10:18:42 pm »
IconicPCB,

This was already discussed in the threads that I referenced earlier. Australia and the USA are very restrictive.

The UK is pretty sensible about such things and I am a qualified Radiographer working alone, so not an issue for me.

I also have all of the equipment and required knowledge to safety survey my X-Ray cabinet (I used to instruct others on how to do it  ;D )

In terms of other users....... safety is very important and I believe I highlighted this in the referenced threads.  But then again, any idiot can modify a microwave oven and damage others with microwave energy so a lot comes down to the equipment and the trustworthiness of the operator. A cabinet X-Ray such as the MX-20 running only 35KVp is one of the safest ways to use X-Ray that I know of.  35KVp cannot produce X-Ray that can penetrate even 0.5mm of steel, which is why the Faxitron cabinet needs no lead shielding in it.

Its kinda the Holy Grail of X-Ray machines  ;D

Aurora
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 10:31:10 pm by Aurora »
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Online IconicPCB

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2015, 10:35:08 pm »
Thanks Aurora,

I had been considering getting a small setup to be able to inspect PCB assemblies.

Many years ago I had seena hand held isotope based unit with a CCD camera and image converter just for such a purpose.

The licensing had always bothered me.

In any case I shall do some research into owning and operating a machine, may be I can arrange everything required to get a unit going.
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: The X-Ray image thread by Aurora - various electronics via X-Ray imaging
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2015, 10:46:26 pm »
I have used the Lixi-scope isotope portable X-Ray handheld units.

GREAT care is needed when operating these especially the ones where you view the DUT via an image intensifier that is on axis with the X-Ray beam. They are safe if used correctly. There was also an electric Lixi-scope that had an X-Ray tube instead of an isotope. The beam confinement was not as I would like however and use of these ceased.

Isotope driven machines are a total nightmare to own. The radioactive Iodine isotopes cost around $5000 each and last only 6 months before the image is too dim to work with. Transporting the Isotopes to and from the USA (the only supplier of such we had) is a nightmare these days.

From previous discussions, it is apparent that X-Ray machines tend to be decommissioned in Australia before disposal. For decommissioning the agent usually removes the controller board and X-Ray generator. If the Generator remains, it is normally drained of oil and cable cut to prevent use.

PCB inspection with X-Ray usually requires a much larger and more expensive machine than the MX-20. To inspect the BGA solder balls you need around 120KVp to 160KVp. Much lead shielding is needed. A new Microfocus cabinet X-Ray for such use is presently around £250,000 in the UK.

Dave was interested in X-Ray as well but I believe he discovered that private ownership is not easy in Oz.

Aurora
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