Author Topic: tig microwelder feasible?  (Read 3975 times)

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Online LaserSteve

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Re: tig microwelder feasible?
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2018, 12:03:50 am »




Hf start gets used because 32  Kv PIV 2 Kiloamp diodes with no forward drop only exist in Star Trek plasma conduits. ;-)

Lift start does a great job of ruining your carefully shaped Tungsten TIG  tips, and they can get stuck in the weld at start when doing it by hand.

I have Xenon Arc lamps, Ion Lasers, Pulsed Flashlamp based lasers ,  and welders in my life. All but one device uses either HF start or a cap dumped into a coil to make a 100 Khz or greater exponential decaying AC start pulse.

 Cap dumped systems usually have a serloies injection ignition transformer that carries the whole load current,  a series inductor to block the RF and a specially constructed metal canned mica capacitor across the power supply to protect it by providing a return path for the RF.  Many of these devices have spark gaps to keep their DC supply out of tbe HF starters. All the cap dumped systems depend on the plasma voltage clamping and adsorbing the ignite spike to protect the PSU.  If the plasma doesn't  form in many of these devices, the psu and /or any blocking diode  is toasted.

Most of the non welding devices  have DC boost voltages  across the load to aid in Cathode Spot Formation.

The pulsed flashlamps have series ignitors, 3 KV 100 mA simmer currents and IGBTs, SCRs, or Thyratrons to dump in the capcitor into the ignited load.

IF dc start were practical for loads above 100 mA most of these devices would have it.

Hf start toplogies work, are proven, act as their own load switch for pulsed loads, do not need exotic diodes and the ringing wave creates very high peak fields. Lc filters do a great job in place of expensive diodes.

The one DC started lon Laser I have results in hard starting plasma tubes that get replaced early. The same tube that gets removed lives another few thosand hours if placed in tbe same model laser with HF start installed.






Steve





« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 12:19:11 am by LaserSteve »
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Online LaserSteve

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Re: tig microwelder feasible?
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2018, 12:11:14 am »
It takes immense amounts of heat to obtain a decent vapor pressure in metals. These temperatures are far, far above the melting point in most cases.

Hence the helium or argon in TIG carries most of the load
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Online coppercone2Topic starter

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Re: tig microwelder feasible?
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2018, 12:24:43 am »
Ok, it sounds like injection and shunting is the way to go from what you said.

What does this transformer look like? What turns ratio does it have, and what core material is used?

What capacitor voltage/capacity is used? Do they use a charge pump type circuit?

How is a spark gap used to protect the supply? Does the spark gap circuit just run with a steady arc along a gas discharge tube during the operation of the welder, basically saturating the core transfer flux? I assume its loaded out immediately after. It seems like it would be best to short the transformer out on the weld source side right after ignition.
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: tig microwelder feasible?
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2018, 01:04:15 am »
Ok, it sounds like injection and shunting is the way to go from what you said.

What does this transformer look like? What turns ratio does it have, and what core material is used?

What capacitor voltage/capacity is used? Do they use a charge pump type circuit?

How is a spark gap used to protect the supply? Does the spark gap circuit just run with a steady arc along a gas discharge tube during the operation of the welder, basically saturating the core transfer flux? I assume its loaded out immediately after. It seems like it would be best to short the transformer out on the weld source side right after ignition.

the capacitor, inductor(transformer) and sparkgap is what makes the HF oscillator

 

Online coppercone2Topic starter

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Re: tig microwelder feasible?
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2018, 01:08:52 am »
yea, but I want to know practical values to start design simulations or experiments around that will be useful for welding..
 

Online LaserSteve

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Re: tig microwelder feasible?
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2018, 01:09:07 am »
Welders used to use what amounts to a small 2 KV neon sign transformer  designed for overload duty arcing into a spark gap that drives the primary of a tiny ruggedized tesla coil. The secondary of the tesla coil arced into a gap connected to one of the welding leads.

An inductor the size of Manhatten and some shunt caps keeps the HF out of the rectifiers.

That is the old way and it is still widely used.

Steve

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Online coppercone2Topic starter

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Re: tig microwelder feasible?
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2018, 01:24:01 am »
what is the new highly engineered esoteric expensive way (if there is one suitable for hand use not solenoids etc requiring a custom torch)?
 

Online coppercone2Topic starter

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Re: tig microwelder feasible?
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2018, 03:46:05 pm »
Out of curiosity, do you think its possible to use series semiconductors to act as a high voltage block switch with your knowledge of the time constants ? I am still reading the relevant chapters in 'gaseous conductors' to figure out if its possible *but based on your solenoid description its at best hard*

I don't like the idea of a monsterous choke or relying on a capacitor to shunt a power supply for some reason. Even if its not perfect, maybe you can reduce the size of the passives significantly?

I think the correct term I am looking for is 'arc deionization'.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 04:44:18 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Online LaserSteve

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Re: tig microwelder feasible?
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2018, 01:01:02 am »
Think this is easy?  Read their blog!:

http://www.arcpig.com/index.html

Here is a modern controller...

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/be/4b/40/b50c91641429b3/US6388232.pdf

Here is a conceptional design, its missing a great deal of protection circuitry:

http://www.wseas.us/e-library/conferences/2006prague/papers/513-109.pdf

Another concept:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/16/b9/d7/b1e113ce83ff20/US5296665.pdf

Add on starter, assumes the welder ships with a series inductor, protective arc gap,  and HF bypass caps in the output.


https://www.millerwelds.com/files/owners-manuals/O611L_MIL.pdf

Steve
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 01:45:04 am by LaserSteve »
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