toroid winding Ideas

[ali_asadzadeh]

Hi,
Recently I have designed a SMPS design, and my customer wanted to build 200 units of it, the problem is that I have lot's of toroids  in my design with various sizes small and bigger ones like FM10 to FM40 cores, I want to know the best and cheapest way of winding toroid ? is there any open source machine or project out there? what about the commercial machines? do you have any idea about the principle operation of these machines?

[iainwhite]

Not sure if this is a realistic solution for you, but it looks like fun to try.  At least you can see the principle of how a winding machine could work.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Simple-Toroidal-Coil-Winder/

[ali_asadzadeh]

Thanks, but the PDF's with blue prints are removed from the site, also is it viable to pass something big containing the whole wire spool inside the core!? I mean the FM10 core is only 1cm in diameter, and I need to turn wide wires inside it, you have seen lots of similar toroids with big chunky amps rating already in your mother board.Also there is not enough pictures and info to tell us how it actually works

[Mjolinor]

200 is enough for you to go to China and have them made.

I have done this in the past and have no complaints about the quality or any other aspect of the job.

[ali_asadzadeh]

Thanks,any links in china would be appreciated!
But also I wanted to know how those machines works?

[Mjolinor]

No links but I am sure Alibaba will get you some with a few minutes searching.

The machines work by doing what you would do if you did it by hand, they pass the coil through the toroid which is why you are better letting someone else do it.

[ebclr]

The concept of the machine is simple, You have 2 arcs, who make a well, Your core is also a circle, You connect the 2 arcs closing the well, Will be "like a chain", after that you load the wire on the wheel, and unload on you core rotating the wheel

[eurofox]

http://mac-s-power.com/Electronics-Custom-Tooling_c2.htm

 

[orolo]

I've read somewhere than, when Apple was starting, their computer power supply toroids were wound at home by people as an additional source of income. Since these toroids you're describing have few turns and thick wire, I don't think one needs special hardware to build them, just a little training and planification. So you could consider hiring a few people for the job, give them the materials and a little training, and that's it. If a toroid is wound in five minutes, worst case, that's about 16 man-hours per 200 toroids. Hire a few people looking for manual, part-time job, and you'll have your toroids in a week or so.

[IanB]

The concept of the machine is simple, You have 2 arcs, who make a well, Your core is also a circle, You connect the 2 arcs closing the well, Will be "like a chain", after that you load the wire on the wheel, and unload on you core rotating the wheel

I don't think this addresses the picture in Reply #2 above. If anyone has tried to "unwind" those toroids the wire is so thick that you practically have to cut it to get it off. It's not going to get wound on from a spool.

[calexanian]

  Here is one for power transformers with the operator showing the process. Most videos go so fast you can't really see anything.

[ebclr]

https://youtu.be/ZCLZ3NGX7ME

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

There is another type of toroid winder that is much simpler and probably better for a small number of turns of heavy wire.

You have an air cylinder, mounted vertically, with a chuck attached the plunger. In the chuck there is a hook to pull the wire. Then you need a support for the core. The air plunger is operated with a foot switch. The hook is polished to protect the wire.

Here is a picture of one that I found on the internet:



This could be simplified, especially the holder for the toroid.

Typical air cylinder:



Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Circlotron]

Had a few of these where I worked once. They are way more suitable for toroid with only a few turns of relatively thick wire. http://www.gormanmachine.com/hustler.htm
The other machines people have posted are more suitable for many turns of thinner wire.

[T3sl4co1l]

Why did you design for custom toroids?  There are many THT and SMT parts available in every imaginable value and size, and even a fair selection of multiple winding inductors.

Tim

[ebclr]

Just because is available to you, does not mean is available to everybody, There are 195 countries in the world, and is sure that most of them do not have those parts easily available.

Information is always a good thing even if you don't need.

[mikerj]

I have visions of getting a finger caught in that nasty looking hook 

[Mjolinor]

I have visions of getting a finger caught in that nasty looking hook 

I didn't think of that immediately but it is a proper

Four pints please

[ali_asadzadeh]

Thanks guys,

Why did you design for custom toroids?  There are many THT and SMT parts available in every imaginable value and size, and even a fair selection of multiple winding inductors.

I have designed the SMPS with custome cores for price reasons, also I do not have access to all the parts, and because toroids are heavy and relatively cheap, transportation cost in most times is the cost driving factor,

I think Jay_Diddy_B your machine looks promissing, but I do not get it how it work fully, would you explain more? or do you have any video?

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Thanks guys,


Snip ...

I think Jay_Diddy_B your machine looks promissing, but I do not get it how it work fully, would you explain more? or do you have any video?

Follow this link, provided by Circlotron in this reply:

Had a few of these where I worked once. They are way more suitable for toroid with only a few turns of relatively thick wire. http://www.gormanmachine.com/hustler.htm
The other machines people have posted are more suitable for many turns of thinner wire.

There is a video and a pdf of the machine.

The machine I used was a simplified version of this. It had a table with a 'V' slot for the toroid. The air cylinder pulls down, there was a spring for the return. The toroid was rotated by hand.

Jay_Diddy_B

[ali_asadzadeh]

Thanks   I wonder how full automated machines work? for example how mother board manufacturers produce their toroids! this machine is semi manual, It need some human interaction along every single turn

[T3sl4co1l]

I have designed the SMPS with custome cores for price reasons, also I do not have access to all the parts, and because toroids are heavy and relatively cheap, transportation cost in most times is the cost driving factor,

But I mean, you did this design without having found an actual source for the parts?  No manufacturer, not even a quote or samples?  You're just now figuring out the cost of making them? 

Tim

[ballanux]

Thanks   I wonder how full automated machines work? for example how mother board manufacturers produce their toroids! this machine is semi manual, It need some human interaction along every single turn

For manufacturers in China probably is only semi-automated but it would be interesting to see how brands like Würth produce their toroids, specially common mode chokes. I have seen this but only shows cylindrical inductors:
https://youtu.be/YD4TJXSw59I?t=1m59s

[Zero999]

I have designed the SMPS with custome cores for price reasons, also I do not have access to all the parts, and because toroids are heavy and relatively cheap, transportation cost in most times is the cost driving factor,

But I mean, you did this design without having found an actual source for the parts?  No manufacturer, not even a quote or samples?  You're just now figuring out the cost of making them? 

Tim

Indeed, unless you're manufacturing a huge volume, it's always cheaper to design the circuit to use standard parts, than custom ones. It may seem cheaper at the time, but it works out more expensive, when it actually comes to making it.