Warning Do not get a qualification with ICS Learn in the UK (BTEC L3)

[Simon]

Hello everyone and you may remember a while ago I was complaining about my BTEC level III course in electronic engineering. After a lot of arguments they have mostly refunded my employer. Basically because I became such a thorn in their side that they did not want me to have access to their forum any longer where I was leading the discussion on how bad the course is.

The BTEC level III course in electronic engineering as provided by ICS learn is of extremely poor quality. If you really want to learn then I would not recommend it at all. The explanations in the course are so woolly that they serve no practical purpose whatsoever. While some will be pleased with minimum amount of math this course is so minimal in maths that it is pointless doing. Add to that many technical errors in the course. For example they could not even print the correct pin out for a 741 operational amplifier and managed to invert the power pins obviously a very deadly error for the chip supplied in the kit.

I did actually come up with almost 3 A4 pages of comments and corrections but they decided that they had an internal "subject matter expert" who knew better than me. Funny that at because despite my continuing asking to speak to this person and to be put right if I was really wrong, they never materialised even at the end of a phone line. I was told I will be contacted by a tutor to put me right instead but the cheetahs were very slow to get in touch. It's in fact took nearly 2 months for a tutor to get in touch and once they did start getting in touch it was to tell me they agreed with me.

Once I came to try and do the assignment which is the thing based on which I would be given a qualification I found it to be so full of errors that it could not be completed. The questions were also asking for a level of skill beyond that explained in the course material, therefore could not be completed anyway by somebody had studied the course from scratch and nothing else. Then there were errors in the diagrams given in the assignment therefore again the assignment cannot be completed.

The assignment can be found here: www.sparkylabs.co.uk/Assignment1.pdf

I have spent at least two months dealing with ICS learn and Pearson who run the qualification board EDEXCEL and frankly considering the gravity of the mistakes they don't seem to be taking things very seriously and just seem to be giving me the runaround. It seems that education in the UK is run by a bunch of companies who self certify themselves. Pearson cannot give me a deadline as to when they will complete their investigation. To illustrate how short their investigation should be the assignment they need to check out is linked above, be your own judge of the incompetence and level of fraud that ICS learn is committing. Because if anybody was given a certificate based on trying to resolve this assignment they were either well beyond the skill level that the course on its own would teach or they were simply handed a certificate in exchange for money.

The course material author continually refers readers to the Internet. Sources such as Wikipedia, University pages and even some Joe Bloggs hobby website are cited as further reading where the student can read exactly the same material again or rather the same concepts explained but explained properly unlike they are in the course material paid for.

To this date I'm still waiting for this course to be taken off the market. It is still as far as I know for sale. So be warned, there are very very few distance learning providers who will do electronic qualifications. In fact I believe that ICS learn are the only ones who will do a level III. The only other course available by distance learning is a HNC and there are few of these as well. It is a sad state of affairs for this country (the UK) but sadly this is what you get from privatisation and a political class who do not really care for education.

I have even tried to contact the government overseeing body who are asking me to allow Pearson to complete their investigation before they will do anything, despite the fact I have explained that this course amounts to fraud. Like I say the assignment is attached be your own judges.

Below is a video I did in response to one of the questions which asked for a video to be made of me building a circuit and of the circuit working. I have previously posted this video and it shows me describing what will happen to one of the circuits in the assignment and how it will go wrong and why. And it shows just that happening. So they can't say I'm doolally. I have sent a copy of this video to ICS learn and I'm still awaiting a response from their "subject matter expert" which they promised I would get.

After I posted this video on the ICS learn forum the administrator of the course tried to tell us that the question was something else and even somebody else pointed out to her before me that this was not the case at all and that the question was very specific and did ask for a video of the circuit being built and operated. She tried to maintain that we were only supposed to explain the working of the transistor in the circuit.

http://youtu.be/fLq7-GzbGG0

[cjo20]

Your complaint at the start of the video is that they haven't given component values for the FET circuit or provided the FET (I've only watched the first couple of minutes). That is because the assignment isn't asking you to build that circuit. I think that the problem you have boils down to a bad indentation on the "Video" heading. It never states you have to build the FET circuit, only explain its operation.

[Simon]

Well they definitely ask for a video of something, if they can't write a proper structured assignment that is not my problem:

Record a video of your circuit being built. You must be in the video.
Record a video of your circuit in operation and the measurements being taken. You must
be in the video.

Fact is that is not a valid amplifier circuit, it may be used as the initial explanation but should not be used in an assignment. Have you noticed the earlier questions where a 10K pot is supposed to act as a variable voltage supply to a 1K load ?, the same error occurs later, we shall leave aside that the pot provided like may other mechanical parts supplied never even fitted the breadboard.

[IanB]

IMHO you may perhaps be falling into an unhappy gap between educational opportunities.

At one end you have the electrical trade and trade qualifications as an electrician (done by hands on courses at a trade college).

At the other end you have the electrical/electronic engineering professions (entered with a university degree, BSc, BEng or MEng).

In the middle you have electrical/electronics technicians.

This latter option was always traditionally entered by employer sponsored courses at a college of further education, either on day release, evening study, or both. I have friends and family who took this path in the 80's, for example with MK Electric or British Telecom.

I think the unhappy gap you have is the lack of committed employer sponsorship.

Distance learning is a new thing, enabled primarily by the internet. In the old days they would have to send you course materials in the mail and you would have to send the answers back. Now they can do it online, but perhaps the system hasn't really caught up with this.

I don't quite know what the answer is here.

[Simon]

@ Ian

Unfortunately this is as much as I could get by employer sponsorship. The course materials that is two ring binders a textbook and a box of components were physically mailed to me. I do have the option or rather did when I was on the course, uploading files of no more than 10 MB or I'm sure they would have had no objection to meet mailing a paper copy back to them. I did in fact mail a DVD with my video which they said there "subject matter expert" would respond to but I never got said answer. I keep asking about this "subject matter expert" but I'm yet to have any evidence that this person exists and in my opinion it is something they made up on the spot to try and sound official and put me off.

I did suggest I go to a local college on day release but my employer does not want this. Apparently we are too busy and it would be unfair to somebody else who was doing an open University degree.

The new plan is to go for a distance learning HNC with Teeside University which I can obtain support for for up to 5 years and they say that some people have completed the course in two or three years.

[IanB]

Having read the assignment I have to agree with cjo20 that you are in no way requested to construct that circuit. If there were any doubt, the fact that they have not given numerical component values, nor supplied the FET, should make it very clear, don't you think?

I'm afraid I'm going to have to come back at you with the old saying, "too clever by half".

There is an aspect of learning which involves reading comprehension and carefully following instructions. A student can come to grief in this area even if they believe they know the technical content.

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but you will achieve greater success in your future learning if you can overcome the temptation to think that you already know the answers. Even if you may do, your knowledge may still be insufficient or incomplete and there may still be more to learn. It's the hardest thing to sit back and recognize that maybe, just maybe, you don't quite know what you think you know.

[Precipice]

Well they definitely ask for a video of something, if they can't write a proper structured assignment that is not my problem:

Well, it sort of is your problem. You're a lot more distressed by it than they are, by the look of it?

Fact is that is not a valid amplifier circuit, it may be used as the initial explanation but should not be used in an assignment. Have you noticed the earlier questions where a 10K pot is supposed to act as a variable voltage supply to a 1K load ?, the same error occurs later, we shall leave aside that the pot provided like may other mechanical parts supplied never even fitted the breadboard.

You notice these things - yay! They ask you describe the operation of the circuit - do so. Explain how you'd fix the shortcomings. Ace the test...
(Bear in mind that the source impedance of a 10k pot is very rarely, if ever 10K - discuss...)

If your employer asked you to fit a pot to a breadboard, would you have grumbled in the same way?

[Simon]

Well you haven't seen the course material of course, this was riddled with errors or so poorly explained that I could see what the author was on about but it was clear that anyone studying from scratch would struggle to comprehend the principles.

I sent them a list of comments and I sent the list to my tutor who actually wrote back and said that he agreed with my comments.

No I wouldn't try and stick a pot in a breadboard just because my employer asks for it if it was not designed For such use. Now you could say, why didn't I solder some wires to it. Well I will tell you why, because the course tells me all about how great bread boards are and that the great advantage is that I don't need to solder and that I could burn myself if I tried to solder. As you say Ian I shouldn't be too far ahead of myself should I now?

@ Ian the whole point of this course was in fact to ensure that I came up to a level III which seems to be the starting point. I was hoping in fact that I would learn something from this course and fill in any holes. Instead given the poor quality of explanations and the dire errors I found in what I do already know I would not want to continue studying from this course with a view to learn anything as if it is not something I don't know already I cannot trust the material, it is that bad.

[Simon]

Even if we want to consider that I may have missed read the assignment which is entirely possible, can somebody explain then what the video was supposed to be of?

[cjo20]

Even if we want to consider that I may have missed read the assignment which is entirely possible, can somebody explain then what the video was supposed to be of?

The circuits they actually asked you to build / measure. Read it again with the "Video" section at the same level of indentation as "Context" and "Circuit build".

[IanB]

I'm not sure how productive it will be to continue this discussion, given what I remember from previous threads on the subject.

You have given us one example of course material to look at, the "Assignment1" document. It seems to be very clearly laid out with very comprehensive instructions and full details of what you have to do. If only some of the tests I have seen were that clear!

Let me also suggest that many of us here would feel quite able to work through the whole course and readily gain a pass on all the tests. If you are so confident in your knowledge, why are you not simply acing the tests and getting a merit or distinction grade, instead of complaining and raising problems?

I'm not sure what your goals are here? Are you trying to further your own career, or trying to do a charitable work by helping all your fellow students?

[Simon]

Well bearing in mind that we are talking about a printed paper course which the PDF is a scan of are you trying to say that they are referring to a previous circuit. Isn't this a bit over thought?

Can you truly call that diagram an amplifier. Please bear in mind that the course material merely shows a diagram of an amplifier and just about explained how it works in the case of a BJ T the FET amplifier is not even explained. Fact is it is relatively obvious that whoever wrote the whole course lives in their own world and only they know what they mean. We are talking about a very low level of study therefore you would think things will be made relatively clear.

Do bear in mind that this course is available for sale around the world and in fact there were foreign students having extreme difficulty just working out what the format was.

[G0HZU]

I stayed off the previous version of this thread (the SME thread) but I'll make a few comments on this one...

Looking at the transistor circuit in question 1c, it is presumably an N channel DMode FET as drawn. I think it  'will' work as a (reasonably linear) small signal buffer amplifier. eg it could typically be used to interface a hi Z source to a low Z load for very small signals. But it is a very curious choice of MOSFET for a basic course in electronics as these devices are not used as commonly as other types of MOSFET.

Maybe it was chosen because it makes the circuit analysis easier? Did they provide a datasheet for the device?

[Simon]

I'm not sure how productive it will be to continue this discussion, given what I remember from previous threads on the subject.

You have given us one example of course material to look at, the "Assignment1" document. It seems to be very clearly laid out with very comprehensive instructions and full details of what you have to do. If only some of the tests I have seen were that clear!

Let me also suggest that many of us here would feel quite able to work through the whole course and readily gain a pass on all the tests. If you are so confident in your knowledge, why are you not simply acing the tests and getting a merit or distinction grade, instead of complaining and raising problems?

I'm not sure what your goals are here? Are you trying to further your own career, or trying to do a charitable work by helping all your fellow students?

As I said you have not seen the actual course which is so poorly explained everybody on the forum was struggling to grasp it which you can see if you go and look at the PDF I have attached. Yes I am being somewhat charitable to my fellow students, I got fed up of my time being wasted too. As I explained earlier because what material I was already knowledgeable in was so badly presented I became concerned that if I did need to learn from material further on I would actually not understand it myself or end up being taught the wrong thing.

It did become exceedingly clear that the level of knowledge is not really sufficient to be of any use to me or my employer. And despite the level of knowledge presented is so basic it was a very badly presented to a degree which made simple things hard to understand for other students. I don't do a course just to get a piece of paper I do it to further my own knowledge, of course the piece of paper is useful for my boss.

The course does not explain very much about resistance because at the beginning it explains you to be already competent in and understanding of the basic electronic components. However the blurb advertising the course does not state that you need any prior knowledge at all in fact it says that you don't need any prior knowledge therefore something as basic as a 10 K pot trying to feed a 1K load is going to go over the head of most students on this course.

The idea was yes that I sort of further my career. I am working for a mechanical company who find they need evermore Electronics to be integrated into their equipment. I have been instrumental in designing a few circuits to solve a few problems and my employer realised that subcontracting things out does not always work because he need somebody in-house to fix problems and to design small things but don't warrant going to a subcontractor which is also much faster. Therefore he thought it wise for the companies benefit and in a way for me who he knows has a passion for Electronics to help me get some qualifications. Unfortunately a BTEC level III is not much use when you are designing safety critical equipment.

Again I ask which circuit was I supposed to build in the video. The course administrator could not tell us which one it is so it's still a mystery.

[Simon]

I stayed off the previous version of this thread (the SME thread) but I'll make a few comments on this one...

Looking at the transistor circuit in question 1c, it is presumably an N channel DMode FET as drawn. I think it  'will' work as a (reasonably linear) small signal buffer amplifier. eg it could typically be used to interface a hi Z source to a low Z load for very small signals. But it is a very curious choice of MOSFET for a basic course in electronics as these devices are not used as commonly as other types of MOSFET.

Maybe it was chosen because it makes the circuit analysis easier? Did they provide a datasheet for the device?

You see you are making all of my points. Only a MOSFET and a J FET was explained. They were explained in a very basic way. A datasheet was never given for any device more was one ever referred to. Your expectations in fact go way way above what this course delivered or seemed to ever intend to deliver. I worked on the assumption it was a MOSFET which as far as I know because I admit I'm not perfect which was the whole reason for starting this course is the most popular FET around. The symbol used also matches the MOSFET symbol given in the course itself so I think my conclusion was fairly obvious and justified in using a MOSFET. No FET device at all was supplied in the kit or even listed in the parts list.

[Simon]

Of course let us not forget by tutor was supposed to contact me and "put me right" I wrote him an extensive email explaining my concerns and never got a reply this was about the assignment. I send comments to the other tutor as at this point they were now to where as before I could not get hold of anybody about the course itself and his reply was that he agreed with every one of my comments and he itemised them.

[cjo20]

Well bearing in mind that we are talking about a printed paper course which the PDF is a scan of are you trying to say that they are referring to a previous circuit. Isn't this a bit over thought?

Nope. Not over-thought. It's a typo (bad indent). They ask you to build some circuits. They then ask for a video of building / modifying circuits. It isn't a huge leap to work out that what they want is you to build the circuits they asked you to (and provided components / component values for) and record it.

Can you truly call that diagram an amplifier. Please bear in mind that the course material merely shows a diagram of an amplifier and just about explained how it works in the case of a BJ T the FET amplifier is not even explained. Fact is it is relatively obvious that whoever wrote the whole course lives in their own world and only they know what they mean. We are talking about a very low level of study therefore you would think things will be made relatively clear.

I think you just answered your own question. You'll find that with a "low level" of study there will be lots of abstractions and simplifications. They want to know (roughly) what would happen with that circuit, what it would do with input / output voltage / current. It only needs to approximate an amplifier in this case. I'd hate to see what you would make of a GCSE physics course; Complaints because they don't cover wave-particle duality? At GCSE in that case, "light travels in straight lines" is sufficient to get the basic point across. Being a very low level of study.

[IanB]

Again I ask which circuit was I supposed to build in the video. The course administrator could not tell us which one it is so it's still a mystery.

You are supposed to provide a short video for each and all of the circuits you are asked to build. The video should show you building the circuit and testing the circuit, with you in the video. This is to provide evidence that you have done the work, and that it is your own work.

Isn't this somewhat elementary?

[G0HZU]

Well if it is a N channel D mode (depletion mode) MOSFET as per the symbol then maybe you could buy one and play with it..

It will typically self bias at 0V Vgs but usually it will be biased quite hard with only a limited amount of +ve swing available for linear operation. But it depends on the device itself I guess.

However, it really is a poor choice of MOSFET in my opinion. Figure 1c is the kind of question I would expect a cheeky tutor to throw in at the end of a lecture because it will trap (quite) a few students. But I would expect the tutor to have previously shown me the more common types of MOSFET along with practical circuits and some design theory.

[Simon]

@cjo20 So you're saying that they present to circuits and then after presenting the second asked me to build the first. Excuse me but this is really confusing.

I am afraid that all of the amplifier explanations was so trivial that they served no practical purpose. In fact from the whole course you cannot glean enough information to really build anything in practice.

[cjo20]

@cjo20 So you're saying that they present to circuits and then after presenting the second asked me to build the first. Excuse me but this is really confusing.

It is generally a good idea to read through assignments thoroughly before you start. At that point it becomes obvious (to me at least).

You should be less worried about asking questions that aren't specifically covered in the course text. As you progress further through the education system you are expected to do more and more of your own reading outside what is presented in the course. At degree level it is very common to be asked questions that aren't explicitly referenced in what the lecturer talks about.

[Simon]

Well if it is a N channel D mode (depletion mode) MOSFET as per the symbol then maybe you could buy one and play with it..

It will typically self bias at 0V Vgs but usually it will be biased quite hard with only a limited amount of +ve swing available for linear operation. But it depends on the device itself I guess.

However, it really is a poor choice of MOSFET in my opinion. Figure 1c is the kind of question I would expect a cheeky tutor to throw in at the end of a lecture because it will trap a few students. But I would expect the tutor to have previously shown me the more common types of MOSFET along with practical circuits and some design theory.

Now you are going way over the expectations of the course. The course never presented enough information to ever buy a physical part. As I said in the video I personally chose a 2N7000 because I felt like it and because there was no information given at all to enable anyone studying from scratch to choose any type of transistor.

Remember my point is not that I can't complete the assignment or correct the diagrams so that they work it is that other students who genuinely bought the course to learn from scratch have been totally failed by the course and would have to in fact do a lot of research of their own to find the information they need.

No explanation as to how to calculate any values of components was given no example values were given nothing. The are principles of how a basic amplifier works were given and that was it. I still cannot design from scratch a transistor amplifier because this is not something I have ever studied myself and there was not enough information presented in the course.

[Simon]

@cjo20 So you're saying that they present to circuits and then after presenting the second asked me to build the first. Excuse me but this is really confusing.

It is generally a good idea to read through assignments thoroughly before you start. At that point it becomes obvious (to me at least).

You should be less worried about asking questions that aren't specifically covered in the course text. As you progress further through the education system you are expected to do more and more of your own reading outside what is presented in the course. At degree level it is very common to be asked questions that aren't explicitly referenced in what the lecturer talks about.

Well it remember this is only a BTEC level III and given the total cock up that the course material was officially there was more than enough lateral studying to be done before worrying about further study. To be honest I can't see why multiple questions were asked under one main question heading the whole layout and concept is ridiculous. Remember this is of course the somebody who has never done Electronics before.

[Simon]

And again remember that this course is aimed at foreign students as well who's english is not going to be perfect and who have not gone through the british education system

[IanB]

Let me provide a model answer for you concerning the FET amplifier question:



An FET has a varying resistance according to the voltage that appears on its gate.

In the circuit shown Rg establishes a stable reference voltage for the gate so that it isn't floating freely. When a varying voltage Vi appears on the input, the AC portion of this voltage is coupled through to the gate by capacitor C1. This varying gate voltage causes the resistance of the transistor to vary in sympathy and so a varying current flows through Rd and through the transistor. The transistor forms a potential divider with Rd, and the varying current causes a varying voltage to appear at capacitor C2. This capacitor couples the AC portion of this voltage through to the output terminal at Vo.