EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff => Topic started by: Kiriakos-GR on August 25, 2011, 09:27:15 pm
-
Some one else pointed this picture to me.
And I will share it with all of you. :)
(http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-mag/Issue_4/Photos/FakeCapacitor1.jpg)
If you do not have a good DMM that reads 10.000mF or more, do not delay about getting one.
-
I've seen this picture before. And each time I see it, I think, why
would you use a high quality Rubycon capacitor in a fake capacitor?
Why not use some other no-name cap?
Unless the Rubycon capacitor itself is a fake and there's a smaller
capacitor inside of it....
Scott
-
Unless the Rubycon capacitor itself is a fake and there's a smaller
capacitor inside of it....
Scott
That's sounded funny, but if you are correct, the one who did that, he must be some one who has lots of hate about electronics. LOL
-
I got a bit paranoid and measured all my big, lightweight caps. ::)
-
It happens with LEDs as well
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3084.msg41944#msg41944 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3084.msg41944#msg41944)
-
The Rubycon likely came out of some used equipment, and has used most of its life already.
-
Tricky Dicky!
Quote:
slburris: Unless the Rubycon capacitor itself is a fake and there's a smaller
capacitor inside of it....
Love it! ;D
-
Some one else pointed this picture to me.
And I will share it with all of you. :)
(http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-mag/Issue_4/Photos/FakeCapacitor1.jpg)
If you do not have a good DMM that reads 10.000mF or more, do not delay about getting one.
and you caution other people about sensational titles, this very picture has been around for a long time and was already discussed. I really thought you had found something new !
-
I've seen this picture before. And each time I see it, I think, why
would you use a high quality Rubycon capacitor in a fake capacitor?
Why not use some other no-name cap?
Unless the Rubycon capacitor itself is a fake and there's a smaller
capacitor inside of it....
Scott
Why yes I would like to see a Matryoshka capacitor. ;D
-
I don't understand how this could be profitable. Consider the time required to find old discarded large caps carefully disassemble them then solder in a small cap and put it all back together.
Easy - you pay Chinese wages and sell the dodgy caps for discount Western prices. You can pay unskilled labour less than US$1 a day in China.
-
The picture is obviously fake but what it symbolises is true: there are many counterfeit capacitors around which have much less capacitance than specified on the can.
-
I don't understand how this could be profitable. Consider the time required to find old discarded large caps carefully disassemble them then solder in a small cap and put it all back together.
Easy - you pay Chinese wages and sell the dodgy caps for discount Western prices. You can pay unskilled labour less than US$1 a day in China.
No, you can't. But you can get ignorant comments on web forums for free!
-
I think the last time this was here, we decided it was probably like Russian dolls, with a capacitor inside a capacitor, and another inside that, and another... All the way down to a tiny 10pF. I suspect the capacitors are sourced from India or one of the African countries where scavengers strip down bulk containers of imported equipment and sell off the parts.
-
Lets stay on topic ... Please !!
As European I never had care if the American worker gets 1$ per hour or 100$.
And the wages part, has nothing to do with the product prices.
All that it matters are to be informed and careful, personally I got fooled locally when I got a belt for my trouser,
from one of those Pakistanis who sell items on the street, it supposed to was an belt made by leather,
and it was common compressed paper with just the exterior to was looking like leather.
I payed 10EUR for it, that is 15$, for the price I was expecting to was leather even the cheapest one,
, but paper ?? :)
-
LOL, you ask people to stay on topic and then write 3 paragraphs on a cardboard belt made in India.
;)
-
Lets stay on topic ... Please !!
yea i got brandless t-shirt which look veeery old right now after years of usage... what a scam!
-
LOL, you ask people to stay on topic and then write 3 paragraphs on a cardboard belt made in India.
;)
I did attract your attention , did I ? :D LOL
-
Lets stay on topic ... Please !!
yea i got brandless t-shirt which look veeery old right now after years of usage... what a scam!
Shame on you, I thought that all your t-shirt had the Canon logo.. :P
( please reply, I like to see your counter hitting the 3K by replying to me ) ;)
-
Lets stay on topic ... Please !!
yea i got brandless t-shirt which look veeery old right now after years of usage... what a scam!
Shame on you, I thought that all your t-shirt had the Canon logo.. :P
( please reply, I like to see your counter hitting the 3K by replying to me ) ;)
actually all of them you name it, brandless or branded, cheap or expensive. even my eevblog tshirts :P. they all do look wear out after sometime of use. about the rubycon caps, i dont need a meter (mentioned in 1st post) to know if there's smaller caps inside or not, i can tell from its weight, i got many caps here the same size as posted, i got used already to how much they weigh. nahh, see?! oh wait.... 8)... i should get a uCurrent as a free gift for hitting 3K. and remember, its "on-topic", "usefull" and "sensible" one! "IMHO" :D
-
In the world of RC electronics, earlier this year fake Futaba GY-401 Gyros were discovered. They had cheap gyros inside them and a big nut to raise the weight just like in the Magical Hard Drives.
-
Link to ebay auction? Yea...I didn't think so. :-\
-
If you love links visit this one. ;)
http://www.telemaster.ru/fuflo/ (http://www.telemaster.ru/fuflo/)
-
The picture is obviously fake but what it symbolises is true: there are many counterfeit capacitors around which have much less capacitance than specified on the can.
I don't know I've also seen pictures of counterfit TO-3 transistors even the cheap 2n3055.
I know but that doesn't change the fact that the image is fake.
-
I've seen this image many years ago. Here:
http://www.telemaster.ru/fuflo/ (http://www.telemaster.ru/fuflo/)
This site is about various fake components. Most of them are bought in Russia (Moscow market at Mitino). I suspect that these fake capacitors really existed but aren't from eBay. All other photos on this site are photos of components really bought by somebody.
The "expensive" Rubycon capacitor is most likely fake (rebranded) too. I've seen lots of them in Russia about ten years ago.
There exist even fake chicken eggs from China! Very hard to tell from outside and having something like coloured gelatine inside. Why faking them?.. They're cheap...
-
Gall thanks a million, about your reply, an reply direct from the source of the information. :)
Thankfully there is no fake electronic spare parts in Greece, probably due the European rules,
makes every one more skeptic about doing such tricks, and another reason could be that Greece is a very small market for big scams,
about low cost items.
-
Have not you ever heard of fake battery cells?
(http://www.naturalnews.com/phototours/EnergizerBatteryUnwrapped600.jpg)
This is a fake D cell, which actually includes a C cell inside with half the capacity of a D cell! [source (http://www.naturalnews.com/PhotoTour_Energizer_Batteries_1.html)]
Kiriakos, I can remember that in the late eighties you could find over here, in Greece, fake 2N3055's that could not deliver more than 3A without self destruction.
-George
-
Kiriakos, I can remember that in the late eighties you could find over here, in Greece, fake 2N3055's that could not deliver more than 3A without self destruction.
-George
Never had see any in the supply of my own town, not to say that I was always getting Motorola ones. ;)
And if I need a more powerful version I use 2N3772
-
Kiriakos, I can remember that in the late eighties you could find over here, in Greece, fake 2N3055's that could not deliver more than 3A without self destruction.
But AH you must understand the Greece that exists in the mind of Kiriakos is a very different place from anything that exists in reality and is a place with no relationship to any actual events in your wonderful country.
-
Kiriakos, I can remember that in the late eighties you could find over here, in Greece, fake 2N3055's that could not deliver more than 3A without self destruction.
-George
yes i remember reading about this in Italy, apparently people stopped using those parts
-
[...]
And if I need a more powerful version I use 2N3772
My point is that a special batch of eponymous transistors rated at 60V, 15A and 115W could not handle a mere load of 12V/3A DC... Isn't this the definition of fake?
And, yes, in my second attempt to build a decent bench power supply (a LM723 based 400W PSU of 0.0-40.0V and 0.00-10.00A continuous output) in the early-to-mid-eighties (that is still going strong today!) I installed a couple of forced-cooled 2N3772 at the power stage!
__________
But AH you must understand the Greece that exists in the mind of Kiriakos is a very different place from anything that exists in reality and is a place with no relationship to any actual events in your wonderful country.
UV, are not all the people living their lives according to the image of the world every individual has built in their mind? I am sure you do, as I have become aware that I do. What can someone do to improve their lives? The first and major step is the rejection of the false realities instilled into someone's mind; instilled, since childhood by the already mislead parents (the highest authorities in a child's world) and procreated by the religious, educational, political and media institutions throughout their lives.
No one is perfect; not me, nor you, nor anyone. And this is not a /////// axiom; it is reality.
What I can see in Kiriakos is a lot of enthusiastic creativity (a quality that is extremely rare in people) and a healthy share of pride; not to mention his sense of humor (that is an indication of some certain positive qualities) and his selfless and honest willingness to help others in an undiscriminating manner. Well, if some people find his pride annoying, I am sure that there are much more people out there that find the "us and them" racist attitude, certain religions and political schools advocate, offensive at the least...
N.B. To prevent any risk of the misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the last sentence above, I would like to stress that this is not a personal attack. It is an objective observation and not an implication or any kind of indirect statement about anyone in particular. I am just trying to redirect the focus of attention to much worse and villainous attitudes than a healthy share of pride.
__________
yes i remember reading about this in Italy, apparently people stopped using those parts
Simon, now I think again about it, I must have been wrong about the time it happened. It was definitely not the late eighties; it rather was during the early eighties that the fake 2N3055 hit the Athenian market because it was already happening during the time I was constructing my 400W bench PSU.
__________
-George
-
My point is that a special batch of eponymous transistors rated at 60V, 15A and 115W could not handle a mere load of 12V/3A DC... Isn't this the definition of fake?
In most cases, they take cheap low-power parts with the same package and pinout and mark them as more powerful ones.
It is quite common for TO-220 transistors. They even don't change the logo since the manufacturer is the same: i.e., IRF640 turns into IRF840 easily, TDA2030 into TDA2050 etc. There was a big problem with TDA7293 and TDA7294 in my city a couple years ago, at local stores all made from TDA7296.
-
Exactly! Remarking cheaper parts to more expensive (or any other) ones is fakery.
-Gerge
-
I read about 2N3055 in the late 90's in Italy I don't know when they were referring to but they mentioned that unmarked/unknown parts were just marked as the then very popular 2N3055 to get them sold off. that would count as faking a part. This was part of an article that pointed out it was not using any 2N3055's in the design being presented because of this so not a lot of detail was given
-
I once got a bag full of MJ15024 power transistors from a not so reputable source. They were marked and sold to me as genuine Motorola parts, albeit quite cheap. I wanted to use them in a rather beefy linear power supply for a audio mixing desk.
When I screwed them onto their heatsinks they all went "Ping" and the round cover popped of the baseplate of the TO-3 case.
Wonderfull stuff, you couldn't make it up :) . Turns out the baseplate was slightly bent and the strain from tightening the screws on either side caused the lid to fall off.
This got me suspicious. And the fact that the Motorola label looked not quite as I remembered it.
I tested a few of the damaged transistors and they all went south at around 5A load without getting hot. The dies were "bonded" to the case with what looked like bathroom sealant (silicone), wich I recon has rather dubious thermal properties.
I then called a very reliable supplier and ordered a few real Motorola MJ15024's. Lesson learned.
-
I then called a very reliable supplier and ordered a few real Motorola MJ15024's. Lesson learned.
True, the most important filtering about fakes, are the knowledgeable supplier.
There is about 6-7 major ones in Greece, and so far we never had issues.
By buying directly from ebay, you are always taking the major part of the risk.
-
UV, are not all the people living their lives according to the image of the world every individual has built in their mind? I am sure you do, as I have become aware that I do. ........................................
...
What I can see in Kiriakos is a lot of enthusiastic creativity (a quality that is extremely rare in people) and a healthy share of pride; not to mention his sense of humor (that is an indication of some certain positive qualities) and his selfless and honest willingness to help others in an undiscriminating manner. Well, if some people find his pride annoying, I am sure that there are much more people out there that find the "us and them" racist attitude, certain religions and political schools advocate, offensive at the least...
__________
-George
George thanks for recognizing to me my true motives, but the case with Mr UV is a lost cause.
Many voices had try so far to in-light him with the use of perfect English and American language,
so to help him to become compatible with the spirit of this forum,
he is unable to become compatible, and he keeps be negative charged and still behaves with weird ways.
Personally I can totally ignore him, but he looks like a virus among us the positive behaving people,
and so I do not see any other solution, than be permanently banned.
I am receiving his negative explosions for about two months, its time the truth to come in the surface,
and Dave it self to do something about it.
-
UV, are not all the people living their lives according to the image of the world every individual has built in their mind? I am sure you do, as I have become aware that I do. ........................................
...
What I can see in Kiriakos is a lot of enthusiastic creativity (a quality that is extremely rare in people) and a healthy share of pride; not to mention his sense of humor (that is an indication of some certain positive qualities) and his selfless and honest willingness to help others in an undiscriminating manner. Well, if some people find his pride annoying, I am sure that there are much more people out there that find the "us and them" racist attitude, certain religions and political schools advocate, offensive at the least...
__________
-George
George thanks for recognizing to me my true motives, but the case with Mr UV is a lost cause.
Many voices had try so far to in-light him with the use of perfect English and American language,
so to help him to become compatible with the spirit of this forum,
he is unable to become compatible, and he keeps be negative charged and still behaves with weird ways.
Personally I can totally ignore him, but he looks like a virus among us the positive behaving people,
and so I do not see any other solution, than be permanently banned.
I am receiving his negative explosions for about two months, its time the truth to come in the surface,
and Dave it self to do something about it.
Actually your as bad as each other in your own ways, just learn to live with each other. Your lack of English and understanding of native English speakers ways may not help you though but you can still be annoying, some people can't live and let live though
-
Well dear friend , some people should never stuck their nooses in what the other people believes,
for God shake, this is a technical forum.
Two months full of silly rants and attacks under the belt, is something that would force even the most peaceful man to react.
And I do have an major complain right now, if you do not plan to do anything about it,
just stay silent.
-
Kiriakos, I can remember that in the late eighties you could find over here, in Greece, fake 2N3055's that could not deliver more than 3A without self destruction.
-George
I second that, I have also been a victim of fake 2n3055s in Greece when I was replacing them here back in the days:
http://www.smartkit.gr/index.php/kit/amplifiers/hi-fi-amplifier-60w.html?___store=us&___from_store=gr (http://www.smartkit.gr/index.php/kit/amplifiers/hi-fi-amplifier-60w.html?___store=us&___from_store=gr)
-
No one is perfect; not me, nor you, nor anyone. And this is not a /////// axiom; it is reality.
What I can see in Kiriakos is a lot of enthusiastic creativity (a quality that is extremely rare in people) and a healthy share of pride; not to mention his sense of humor (that is an indication of some certain positive qualities) and his selfless and honest willingness to help others in an undiscriminating manner. Well, if some people find his pride annoying, I am sure that there are much more people out there that find the "us and them" racist attitude, certain religions and political schools advocate, offensive at the least...
N.B. To prevent any risk of the misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the last sentence above, I would like to stress that this is not a personal attack. It is an objective observation and not an implication or any kind of indirect statement about anyone in particular. I am just trying to redirect the focus of attention to much worse and villainous attitudes than a healthy share of pride.
No problems George I understand completely what you are saying. It is a question of balance, pride is not wrong if kept in perspective, it is fine for one to be proud, it is ignoranthowever when that prides extends to derision and contempt for the pride and values of others.
Equally humour is a valuable commodity but it requires the ability to be able to handle as much as one can give.
Of course someone in Europe will have most interest in a European perspective, but it is downright ignorant for that same person to not recognise that someone from Asia or the US, Australia or the UK will have an entirely different perspective and experience. The wise amongst us revel in that diversity, the fools use it as a hobby horse for some misguided pride.
His constant slurs and negative references towards the USA are offensive, outlandish statements such as all UK eBay will be stolen goods due to some riots are clearly nonsense as are the regular reference to Greek super-powers of perspective and reasoning.
Enthusiasm is to be encouraged, but only when that enthusiasm shows respect for the needs, wants and enjoyment of others. Enthusiasm is not license to ignore respect for other participants, neither is it some kind of license to assume a personal worth above that of any other participant.
Cheers again George, and thank you for you efforts to make this a better place.
-
Yes, Alex! Those fake parts were mostly available at the Athens Flea Market electronic components stores. The major parts suppliers located at Kaningos Sq. have always had descent parts. For quality or really exotic parts there was John Paschalides ("Atomiki") --if, of course, you were willing to open your wallet really wide!
__________
Kiriakos and Uncle Vernon,
I am glad to see that the whole matter seems to have been dissolved into the conclusion that, tolerance of the foreign cultures' views can be rewarding for both the parties; especially when there is no malice.
__________
-George
EDIT: Spelling...
-
Kiriakos and Uncle Vernon,
I am glad to see that the whole matter seems to have been dissolved into the conclusion that, tolerance of the foreign cultures' views can be rewarding for both the parties; especially when there is no malice.
__________
-George
Nothing to do with tolerance of foreign cultures from my perspective George, I welcome the variety and diversity of perspectives from different regions.
Any issue has been to do with manners and respect for others including 3rd parties. For my part I should just let it go, but I'll be far from the last to call him on his on-line behavior and for every one who speaks up there are another hundred who suffer in silence.
Kiriakos cannot accept a differing opinion without concluding it is some conspiracy that is telling him how to think!
For someone so keen on on independent thought Kiriakos is very keen to tell others what they should do and think!
If Kiriakos wants to tell moderators how to moderate and dictate how other participants should behave then he'd be best to start his own little spot on the web. But then he's already tried that.
I welcome his opinions at the same time I wont tolerate his attempts to shout down opinions or contributions by myself or anyone else. His record precedes him it doesn't take too much of a google search to reveal a long history of similar on-line behavior.
-
You have been Rubyconned in a can, :P
-
Some one else pointed this picture to me.
And I will share it with all of you. :)
(http://www.discovercircuits.com/dc-mag/Issue_4/Photos/FakeCapacitor1.jpg)
If you do not have a good DMM that reads 10.000mF or more, do not delay about getting one.
Wonder what the "6800uF" cap's voltage rating is... Sad it dosen't show on the pic...
-
It appears to be 50 Volts.
-
It looks that I had miss some episodes here. :)
Any way, the truth is that there in no chance the story with the UV to have an honky dory turn out.
Some people are not educated enough so to participate in conversations, with people from other cultures.
My solution is to avoid totally any off topic conversation, and to avoid any member who has no interest about electronics.
-
Oh well I seem to have screwed my quoting up some how, my comments were directed at something Simon said a page or two back.......
[/quote]
and you caution other people about sensational titles, this very picture has been around for a long time and was already discussed. I really thought you had found something new !
[/quote]
I few weeks ago a student inferred, in front of many other people, I was a lazy cheat and I "should do the hard yards" (I was discussing a Matlab problem with another student and suggested reconstructing the help file example to get a better idea how the model worked), then a couple of weeks later a lecturer was commenting about the amount of copying that was going on and then, in front of the whole class, pointed his finger at this guy and his friend and said "If you guys work was any similar it would be identical". Naturally I pointed out the irony, which he failed (or refused) to see, not that I'm trying to compare the OP with my situation - this post just reminded me of it!