What style wire is this? (Thin insulation, almost like Kynar/wire-wrap)

[TimNJ]

Hi all,

I'm working on a 24VDC LED lighting project where I need some wire which is as thin as possible. Looking for 24AWG or so.

In Boy Scouts, when I was younger, we made foxhole radios with some small diameter wire, shown in the attached picture. It almost looks like the wire that might be used in twisted-pair, but for the life of me, I cannot figure out what this type of wire is called. Does anyone know what they call this? Or, do you guys have any suggestions for thin insulation wire? UL Style (insert here)?

Thanks,
Tim

[oPossum]

Looks like wire from a telco trunk cable.

[mikeselectricstuff]

If you want thin insulated wire, Alpha Ecowire is good, though expensive. Very thin but very tough insulation.

[DaJMasta]

Yep, looks a lot like phone cables to me, I think you can get Kynar wire that's a fair bit thinner than standard wire-wrap, but if nothing else, there's always enameled magnet wire.  Thinnest insulation I know of.

[TimNJ]

Looks like wire from a telco trunk cable.

Yep, looks a lot like phone cables to me, I think you can get Kynar wire that's a fair bit thinner than standard wire-wrap, but if nothing else, there's always enameled magnet wire.  Thinnest insulation I know of.

Thanks. If I were to buy a spool of it somewhere, what would it be called?

Also, DaJMasta, we have tons of magnet wire at work, but I need to be able to identify positive, negative quickly and without errors.

[TimNJ]

If you want thin insulated wire, Alpha Ecowire is good, though expensive. Very thin but very tough insulation.

Thanks, Mike. I'm looking at that now. A tad expensive, but I may splurge for some!

[oPossum]

Thanks. If I were to buy a spool of it somewhere, what would it be called?

25 pair cable

[macboy]

On occasion I have obtained some good quality fine wire from CAT-5e cables. The plenum rated stuff (safe for use inside air vents between floors of buildings) has a solid conductor and Teflon/PTFE insulation that is very tough and heat proof. That makes it slightly tricky to strip but easier solder without melting and making a mess.

After untwisting a pair, take a length of it between two pliers and give it a pull... just until you feel the copper stretch slightly. It will then be as straight as a wire, literally.

[TimNJ]

On occasion I have obtained some good quality fine wire from CAT-5e cables. The plenum rated stuff (safe for use inside air vents between floors of buildings) has a solid conductor and Teflon/PTFE insulation that is very tough and heat proof. That makes it slightly tricky to strip but easier solder without melting and making a mess.

After untwisting a pair, take a length of it between two pliers and give it a pull... just until you feel the copper stretch slightly. It will then be as straight as a wire, literally.

Thanks for the tip. I actually just tried that with some twisted pair I had (old, from unknown source). It is very close to what I'm looking for, but I just figured the bare wire had to be available somewhere.

[TimNJ]

Does anyone know why Kynar wire-wrap doesn't have a voltage rating? Something with the consistency/reliability of the insulation? It's used all over the place. You'd think it would have some sort of rating.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Does anyone know why Kynar wire-wrap doesn't have a voltage rating? Something with the consistency/reliability of the insulation? It's used all over the place. You'd think it would have some sort of rating.

I think the answer is that if you're concerned about voltage rating, you probably shouldn't be using wirewrap wire...

[TimNJ]

Does anyone know why Kynar wire-wrap doesn't have a voltage rating? Something with the consistency/reliability of the insulation? It's used all over the place. You'd think it would have some sort of rating.

I think the answer is that if you're concerned about voltage rating, you probably shouldn't be using wirewrap wire...

Maybe. Chances that 24VDC is going to break through insulation is almost exactly 0%. Just wondering why they didn't slap like a token 50V rating on it or something.

[DaJMasta]

Maybe. Chances that 24VDC is going to break through insulation is almost exactly 0%. Just wondering why they didn't slap like a token 50V rating on it or something.

Maybe they just didn't want to spend the time actually testing it?  The spool of small wire wrap wire I have lists UL1422/UL1423 compliance (4 AWGs on the sticker, so the insulator is one or the other), neither is voltage rated but has some other basic specifications.  Closest I've seen to an actual voltage rating.


How many colors do you need?  Magnet wire could still be an option if you don't need many, you can get a few colors of enamel, but if you're looking for more than 3 or 4 it's going to be tough to find one supplier with a range that bothers with a rainbow of colors without a special order.

[thermistor-guy]

Does anyone know why Kynar wire-wrap doesn't have a voltage rating? Something with the consistency/reliability of the insulation? It's used all over the place. You'd think it would have some sort of rating.

Looks like 300 V for MIL/SAE spec. wire:

https://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=mil-w-81822/3

MIL-W-81822A specifies an insulation resistance test at 500 V. See par. 4.6.19 in:

http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-W/MIL-W-81822A_5315/

But you have raised a good question. If commonly available Kynar w/w wrap wire is only good for, say, 150 V at 105 deg. C, why do vendors not state that? Hmm.

[mariush]

You could also look at ribbon cables. There are such cables with AWG28 and even thinner wires.

Heres some examples:

18.5$ (0.13$ per meter) : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/assmann-wsw-components/AWG28-9-G-300/AE09M-50-ND/686343
Number of Conductors    9     Pitch    0.050" (1.27mm)     Length    50.0' (15.24m)     Wire Gauge    28 AWG    Conductor Strand    7 Strands / 36 AWG

462$  ( 50 x 91.4 meters = 4,572 meters of wire, $0.10 per meter ) : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/assmann-wsw-components/AWG28-50-F-1-300/AE50B-300-ND/2391665

Number of Conductors    50    Pitch    0.039" (1.00mm)    Length    300.0' (91.44m)    Wire Gauge    28 AWG    Conductor Strand    7 Strands / 36 AWG    
Shielding    Unshielded    Jacket Color    Multiple    Ribbon Thickness    0.035" (0.89mm)    Ribbon Width    1.969" (50.01mm)

10 different colors ... you can use a sharp blade to make a cut and the simply separate two wires from the ribbon.

[TimNJ]

Does anyone know why Kynar wire-wrap doesn't have a voltage rating? Something with the consistency/reliability of the insulation? It's used all over the place. You'd think it would have some sort of rating.

Looks like 300 V for MIL/SAE spec. wire:

https://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=mil-w-81822/3

MIL-W-81822A specifies an insulation resistance test at 500 V. See par. 4.6.19 in:

http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-W/MIL-W-81822A_5315/

But you have raised a good question. If commonly available Kynar w/w wrap wire is only good for, say, 150 V at 105 deg. C, why do vendors not state that? Hmm.

Thanks for your research! I wonder if that makes it truly "rated for 500V". I guess as long as the insulation doesn't completely break down, it's an "insulator" at that voltage.

Surely all wire manufacturers test the dielectric strength of their insulation...just to know, for their own sake, right? Even if it had a 20V rating, as the designer, I at least want to know whether or not the product is suitable for the intended application.

[TimNJ]

Maybe. Chances that 24VDC is going to break through insulation is almost exactly 0%. Just wondering why they didn't slap like a token 50V rating on it or something.

Maybe they just didn't want to spend the time actually testing it?  The spool of small wire wrap wire I have lists UL1422/UL1423 compliance (4 AWGs on the sticker, so the insulator is one or the other), neither is voltage rated but has some other basic specifications.  Closest I've seen to an actual voltage rating.


How many colors do you need?  Magnet wire could still be an option if you don't need many, you can get a few colors of enamel, but if you're looking for more than 3 or 4 it's going to be tough to find one supplier with a range that bothers with a rainbow of colors without a special order.

Maybe. I just figure...of all the test-able properties of a wire, I would not expect withstand voltage to be one that would be skipped over because "they didn't feel like it".

Just need two colors! I know magnet wire comes in standard orange-y color, red, and green. Would be no problem to get, although aesthetically, I don't know how much I like it. But it is definitely a good thought! Thanks.

[TimNJ]

You could also look at ribbon cables. There are such cables with AWG28 and even thinner wires.

Heres some examples:

18.5$ (0.13$ per meter) : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/assmann-wsw-components/AWG28-9-G-300/AE09M-50-ND/686343
Number of Conductors    9     Pitch    0.050" (1.27mm)     Length    50.0' (15.24m)     Wire Gauge    28 AWG    Conductor Strand    7 Strands / 36 AWG

462$  ( 50 x 91.4 meters = 4,572 meters of wire, $0.10 per meter ) : https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/assmann-wsw-components/AWG28-50-F-1-300/AE50B-300-ND/2391665

Number of Conductors    50    Pitch    0.039" (1.00mm)    Length    300.0' (91.44m)    Wire Gauge    28 AWG    Conductor Strand    7 Strands / 36 AWG    
Shielding    Unshielded    Jacket Color    Multiple    Ribbon Thickness    0.035" (0.89mm)    Ribbon Width    1.969" (50.01mm)

10 different colors ... you can use a sharp blade to make a cut and the simply separate two wires from the ribbon.

Now that's a great idea. Great way to get lots of colors without buying 10x100feet of standard hookup wire.