Author Topic: What's wrong with this picture? The IEC cable that nearly killed me  (Read 9393 times)

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Offline JS

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Re: What's wrong with this picture? The IEC cable that nearly killed me
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2018, 05:21:35 am »
  I'm from Argentina, we don't make plug cords as far as I know, all of the ones I've seen are from CN or came with some product from somewhere else, so probably we are all using the wrong wiring in many many places, also the wall outlets are all miss-wired so in some cases it comes back good. Only newer, installations are getting better but even then many electricians don't mind to cross the leads when they make wiring with opposed outlets, meaning one of them is always wrong. the best I can do is when I have a spare pole in the power switch I switch both incoming lines. We have a death every few years for electric shocks, but being 40M people and so other stuff wrong I don't thing this is the main cause. We use a 30mA GFCI for the whole domestic installation, but not everybody has it installed, that's worse than a crossed hot and neutral. When is a leak and the GFCI trips and they can't find the leak they cross the wires for the whole house so if it was a correctly wired outlet it isn't anymore. And I can keep going...

Long story short, in the lab use an insulation transformer even with the variac (before it) and always switch both hot and neutral or just unplug the thing. You are intentionally touching the damn wires most of the time, safety measurements are for normal use failures, not for someone poking inside, that's why there's a sign only the things saying open at your own risk or electric hazard inside, or whatever...

JS
If I don't know how it works, I prefer not to turn it on.
 

Offline AG6QR

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Re: What's wrong with this picture? The IEC cable that nearly killed me
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2018, 05:51:04 am »
This is why you have isolation transformers. Trusting the electrician or the cable for correct polarity is the certain way to get harmed.
But an isolation transformer makes it impossible for an RCD to do its job, and the RCD is what cut the power and saved the day.

An isolation transformer allows you to connect any single point of the circuit to earth ground, and when you do so, you don't get a shock, and power is not interrupted.  After that first connection is made, if you touch a different point in the circuit while touching ground, you can get a shock, and nothing will stop it.  In other words, you get to make one mistake without suffering harm, but the second mistake can be a serious problem.

If you use an RCD without an isolation transformer, as soon as you connect any part of the circuit to ground, either directly or through a resistance (the human body being a resistance for the purpose of this discussion), the power is immediately cut off.  In other words, the first mistake cuts the power, so you don't have an opportunity to make a second mistake.

Both strategies have their advantages and disadvantages.  Both strategies require reasonably care, and reasonably correct wiring procedures.  Both will protect against one single mistake.  Neither will protect against a case where a person contacts both sides of a circuit simultaneously, appearing to be a load.
 

Offline brownt

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Re: What's wrong with this picture? The IEC cable that nearly killed me
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2018, 06:21:25 am »
Yes, we are all living in a death trap. Even ground can go live at home, if the neutral is broken.
 

Offline thermistor-guy

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Re: What's wrong with this picture? The IEC cable that nearly killed me
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2018, 12:54:47 am »
I cut open that cable, and it had the internal blue/brown colours wired correctly to the IEC end, but wrong for the AU plug end.
They were also pretty piddly conductors, I doubt anything like the 10A stated on the plug - binned the lot.
...
 Are there any possible issues that I'm not seeing?

If the faulty cord has an AU approval number, then the approval should be revoked and the product recalled:

https://austest.com.au/au-nz-approvals/
https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/buying-products-and-services/product-and-service-safety/electrical-safety/safety-labels-for-electrical-goods

From the second link:
Quote
The approval mark should be permanently on the article itself – being on the box or container is not sufficient. If you cannot see an approval number or mark on a declared article, ask the salesperson to show you the approval number. If they can't show it to you, don't buy it. If you find a store selling electrical articles that have no approval numbers or markings, contact NSW Fair Trading. We are responsible for monitoring the safety of electrical goods sold in NSW.

See the second link for the formats of approval numbers.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: What's wrong with this picture? The IEC cable that nearly killed me
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2018, 09:53:22 am »
The incoming active on the three prong plug, connects to the neutral of the IEC plug!!

Perhaps I'm being particularly dense today, but doesn't your picture show continuity between the two live connectors anyway?

I don't think so.  The IEC plug should have the same pin arrangement as the wall plug -- imagine it's nothing more than an extension lead.  Doing anything different would require "re-arranging" the wires in the bundle or the connectors, which makes little sense. 

Your bottom diagram might be using one of those creative definitions of 'male' and 'female' that consider the plastic rather than the pins.  Or visa versa.  I always get it wrong reading those, don't ask about SMA and RP-SMA too :D

For similar reasons I dislike datasheets that show transistor pinouts from an orthographic view, but don't label which one.  Top or bottom?  Front or back?  "Oh, you're just supposed to assume that under *standard*".
Regarding the gender of connectors: it doesn’t matter which side is in your hand and which is fixed, or whether a plastic part gets inserted into another. What matters is the mating surfaces. The ones which are pins or otherwise stuck out are male. The ones that are holes are female. The key thing being that it’s only the mating surfaces that are considered. So the cord in the OP has a male Australian plug on one end and a female IEC plug on the other.
 

Offline Whales

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Re: What's wrong with this picture? The IEC cable that nearly killed me
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2018, 04:11:11 am »
Regarding the gender of connectors: it doesn’t matter which side is in your hand and which is fixed, or whether a plastic part gets inserted into another. What matters is the mating surfaces. The ones which are pins or otherwise stuck out are male. The ones that are holes are female. The key thing being that it’s only the mating surfaces that are considered. So the cord in the OP has a male Australian plug on one end and a female IEC plug on the other.

I've come across the opposite before.  Mating surfaces are male (pins) but the outer plastic connector was "female"; so they named it female.

Offline tooki

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Re: What's wrong with this picture? The IEC cable that nearly killed me
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2018, 11:14:07 am »
Regarding the gender of connectors: it doesn’t matter which side is in your hand and which is fixed, or whether a plastic part gets inserted into another. What matters is the mating surfaces. The ones which are pins or otherwise stuck out are male. The ones that are holes are female. The key thing being that it’s only the mating surfaces that are considered. So the cord in the OP has a male Australian plug on one end and a female IEC plug on the other.

I've come across the opposite before.  Mating surfaces are male (pins) but the outer plastic connector was "female"; so they named it female.
Yes, you see that usage in the wild sometimes, but they’re mistaken. There is a convention, and it’s not that! ;)
 

Offline Psi

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Re: What's wrong with this picture? The IEC cable that nearly killed me
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2018, 11:19:29 am »
As others have said, treat both N and P as 'live' wires.

Its best not to try and figure out which is N and which is P unless you have a need to know this info, like if you're adding a fuse or wiring up a plug.  Otherwise just think of it as two hot wires.

The worst thing you can ever do is think to yourself
 "hm.. that's ok, this neutral wire is earthed at the fuse box, so it's safe"
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 11:21:19 am by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 


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