Author Topic: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA  (Read 1537 times)

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Offline TerraHertz

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Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« on: September 23, 2017, 10:05:54 PM »
Quoting from another site:
Quote
LAST CALL FOR CHEAP SOLAR IN AMERICA
The following is NOT A HOAX
 Sunvia has filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, claiming they have been injured by low cost solar panels. They are seeking a base price of 78 cents per watt, and a tariff of 40 cents a watt. That is drastic, when right now worldwide the price of solar panels is 32 cents a watt.

 Here is the FTC's response:
 "The U.S. International Trade Commission has determined that Crystalline Silicon Photovoltaic Cells (Whether or Not Partially or Fully Assembled Into Other Products) are being imported into the United States in such increased quantities as to be a substantial cause of serious injury, or threat of serious injury, to the domestic industry producing an article like or directly competitive with the imported article in the United States.

 As a result, the investigation will move to a remedy phase."

Comment: This means that by the time the panels hit retail, solar will not be 50 cents a watt as it has been, it will probably go right back up to $3 per watt because Sunvia is hitting the prices at pre distribution level, and everyone has to take their cut along the way. This means solar will probably soon be priced where it was 10 or more years ago. This will be the end of solar power "for everyone" in America, GET YOUR PANELS TODAY.

 Yeah, the same protective logic, if applied to the auto industry, would give birth to the $75,000 Ford Fiesta.

See:
https://www.usitc.gov/press_room/news_release/2017/er0922ll832.htm

Put that together with regulations like in Florida, making it illegal to run solar electric systems  disconnected from the grid.
eg http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-18/florida-you-cant-use-your-own-solar-panels-crisis

I've been waiting for tptb to start a push-back against really cheap solar electric, and the threat it represents to the Centralist paradigm. Looks like they are getting serious about it now.
Collecting old scopes, logic analyzers, and unfinished projects. http://everist.org
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 10:38:20 PM »
Here is another data point:

http://www.iatp.org/blog/201602/obama-undermines-climate-efforts-in-solar-trade-dispute

This has nothing to do with Obama or Trump and everything to do with signaling.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 08:19:15 AM by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 11:22:04 PM »
In Spain they also set up arbitrary taxation to prevent homeowners from saving money by installing solar energy panels in some particularly crazy way.

This is driven by similar considerations as the bar to cities upgrading their public transit after entering into toll road agreements, so that they wont be "unfairly competing" with privatized toll roads.


Read up on "ISDS" and "Indirect expropriation"
"Ratchet"and "Standstill" rules -
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 11:25:53 PM by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2017, 01:48:16 AM »
Privatized toll road: Really, really bad idea. Playing right into the hands of racketeers. Scotland has NO tolls, and I believe it's now part of the constitution that they are not allowed. England has one or two and they are intensely disliked.

Solar panels became very cheap because of a worldwide surplus. I think it was to be expected that once the surplus was used up that would change. Of course if there is panic buying because of impending price increases that won't exactly help price stability either. 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 01:50:17 AM by IanMacdonald »
 

Offline fourtytwo42

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Re: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2017, 03:53:59 AM »
I think Ian the reason the USA prices are to increase according to the OP is anti-dumping tax, I am not sure if the EU is already imposing punitive tax to protect EU manufacturers also but I wouldn't be surprised if it is being considered. Overall with Asian production continuing to ramp up whilst western nations are reducing subsidies (not before time IMOP) indeed you are correct we are awash in a surplus that continues to increase.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2017, 07:58:08 AM »
It would seem to me that falling prices on solar cells should just be seen as good for everybody if it makes us even just slightly more independent of fossil fuels and nuclear energy..
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 08:12:11 AM by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online Marco

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Re: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 09:15:04 AM »
Put that together with regulations like in Florida, making it illegal to run solar electric systems  disconnected from the grid.
eg http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-18/florida-you-cant-use-your-own-solar-panels-crisis
Only for grid tied systems.

On the upside you can feedback power and get some money or you can buy a battery bank with a DC coupled inverter and not be affected by that caveat.

Read up on "ISDS" and "Indirect expropriation"
Modern free trade agreements are national enslavement agreements.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 09:21:01 AM by Marco »
 

Offline ajm8127

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Re: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 07:05:50 AM »
This looks like it is definitely going to happen. The article on The Hill indicates the tariffs would only affect panel manufacturers exceeding a certain quota, which would increase over time. The article says the tariffs would also decrease over time.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/358019-trade-panel-seeks-up-to-35-percent-tariffs-on-solar-power
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/10/31/federal-trade-panel-calls-for-protections-against-imported-solar-panels-which-trump-could-soon-implement
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Offline Old Don

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Re: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 08:30:06 AM »
Prices of imported solar panels are priced below cost to manufacture. This is called dumping. Dumping is a method to drive competition out of business and is illegal in the USA. Placing a tariff on dumped products isn't anti-competitive even if the consumer pays more since US jobs are lost when unfair pricing is allowed. Just like a bully can't take a students lunch money, government steps in to correct the problem. Of note, Chinese company, Linuo, bought some of the surplus IBM buildings in Fishkill, NY to build solar cells. that was a few years ago and still no production since cost to import is cheaper than domestic production, I guess.  See: http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/money/2014/05/07/linuo-demolishing-empty-building/8824229/  So I guess if a tariff does happen production could begin.
Retired - Formerly: Navy ET, University of Buffalo Electronic Tech, Field Engineer and former laptop repair business owner
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: Bad news for solar electric pricing in USA
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 01:42:06 PM »
In September I was hearing Trump's tariffs on solar panel would double or triple the cost of residential solar and put 80% of the solar companies out of business over the next two years.   

Is that still the prediction?
 


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