Batteries and inverters going off grid with solar.

[coppice]

The Sunny Boy 1.5 seems to be under 500 pounds in the UK, so I assume your 1000 pound unit is some high end 1.5kW model. 500 pounds puts it in the ballpark of the panel costs. You have to mount panels on something substantial, even if they are laid flat, as they will blow away in a storm if you don't. That probably costs about as much as the panels or inverter. So, we seem to be looking at around 3 times the panel costs + installation. This is looking a lot better than a few years ago.

[Simon]

I've got the SB1700 which can actually do 1.55KW continous, neber mind the headline number of 1700: http://www.criticalpowersupplies.co.uk/SMA-sunny-Boy-SB-1700

I won't be making too complicated a frame. I'll probably weigh it down rather than sink posts into the ground.

[coppice]

I've got the SB1700 which can actually do 1.55KW continous, neber mind the headline number of 1700: http://www.criticalpowersupplies.co.uk/SMA-sunny-Boy-SB-1700

I won't be making too complicated a frame. I'll probably weigh it down rather than sink posts into the ground.

Although Critical Power Supplies are still listing that model, it seems to be an obsolete one. The newer models seem to have halved in price for similar capabilities. Although these things use mostly mature technology, the growing size of the market does allow considerable reductions in price.... and, of course, growing competition pretty much forces their hand.

[Simon]

Well at 50% the retail price I'm still happy. It's cheap even for a second hand unit and it's new. Plus he had the decency to come and measure up cables for me and help me get the wires through my wall and crimp the connectors for me. All round I certainly can't complain.

[EEVblog]

Well at 50% the retail price I'm still happy. It's cheap even for a second hand unit and it's new.

Bargain!
What is your feed-in tariff compared to your electricity cost?
Although with a 1.5kW system you probably wouldn't be outputting all that much to the grid?

[Simon]

There is no feed in tariff, I paid £930 for the lot and for another £660 can get the extra panels to make it proper 1.5KW.

My roof faces the wrong way and to get the same gear installed by a proffesional (that would get me a certificate for feed in) would be £5-8000. So I'll build my own frame and have them up in the garden. If I'm home I use it all, if I'm not well....... what little I'd likely get would hardly have covered the cost of a pro installation.

The problem here is that the government have been paying you for the electric and then selling it off at a loss to the energy companies. Now they have reduced the mandatory feed in tarrif to £0.0167/KW so unless your energy provider will pick up the difference your screwed and of course I've not heared of any regulations yet that force a minimum price.

I doubt any of the companies offering free instalations would have bothered with my roof being the wrong way.

[jnissen]

Only makes sense if you live in a liberal hell hole like I do here in Austin!  O0  One of the few places they actually believe you can use solar for power generation  .

The local utility gave me enough to cover roughly 60% of the cost of the system. The tax write off was worth more and now my utility company is paying me for every kW produced. I have had my system up for about four years now and in four more years it will be at a point where it will actually make money.

Then again it's making money now but paying me back. I guess it was a good investment as it pays about 13% per year. My skills (or better yet my investment advisor) has not been able to find consistent 13% returns lately! Part of the fun of the system is just in monitoring it and seeing how much it's delivering back. I use micro-inverters (Enphase energy) so it's easy to see per panel contribution. 

BTW - I have enough room to use a ground mount system. The panel are facing due south so I don't have a lot of limitations from the orientation. Trackers were just not economically feasible. My power output is very consistent and about as optimized as you can hope for. Not a compromise by installing on a roof and hoping to get the correct angles. The only advantage a roof mount has is that it does provide shading for the attic. Add later costs for more expensive roof repair (it will need a new roof some time in the future) and a roof mount is a non-starter.

I have been trying to justify putting in a solar system for 20+ years.  It was just getting attractive financially to install a grid tied system in Arizona (about as good as it gets for solar energy) when I moved to a more northerly, forested and cloudy location.  Pfft.  It makes no sense here, and I suspect I am still both south of and in a less cloudy location than Simon.

Twenty years ago people were acknowledging that the numbers didn't work out at current costs, but were predicting rapid inflation of electricity costs.  It hasn't really happened.  As always past performance is not a prediction of future performance, but my crystal ball isn't absolutely positive that electricity costs will go through the roof.

Even for grid tied systems in favorable locations it is likely to get less attractive.  The utility companies have recognized the threat to their business models and are starting to request tariffs for attachment to the grid.  This is even justifiable in general terms.  They do have costs in maintaining the distribution system, and also in making generation match consumption, which have historically been amortized in the electric bill.  When people cut their grid purchases by 50-90 percent or more the costs of maintaining the grid don't drop by anything like the same percentage.  The tariffs proposed seem out of line high relative to the actual costs, but who knows how that will settle out.  Even a charge that matches actual costs hurts the economic case for solar.

[tggzzz]

Don't forget to factor in what your insurance company will say when you need to make a claim. Consider their wriggle-room w.r.t. not being able to prove the electrical, chemical and mechanical installations were sound enough that they themselves did not add to the risk.

And if you think insurance companies won't try to wriggle, I have a bridge you might like to buy.

[mtdoc]

Don't forget to factor in what your insurance company will say when you need to make a claim. Consider their wriggle-room w.r.t. not being able to prove the electrical, chemical and mechanical installations were sound enough that they themselves did not add to the risk.

And if you think insurance companies won't try to wriggle, I have a bridge you might like to buy.

Should not be an issue here in the US as long as UL listed equipment is used and proper permitting of installation is done.

[tggzzz]

Don't forget to factor in what your insurance company will say when you need to make a claim. Consider their wriggle-room w.r.t. not being able to prove the electrical, chemical and mechanical installations were sound enough that they themselves did not add to the risk.

And if you think insurance companies won't try to wriggle, I have a bridge you might like to buy.

Should not be an issue here in the US as long as UL listed equipment is used and proper permitting of installation is done.

UNfortunately the OP is not in the US and is thinking of doing everything himself. Apart from that, you are spot on.

[mtdoc]

Don't forget to factor in what your insurance company will say when you need to make a claim. Consider their wriggle-room w.r.t. not being able to prove the electrical, chemical and mechanical installations were sound enough that they themselves did not add to the risk.

And if you think insurance companies won't try to wriggle, I have a bridge you might like to buy.

Should not be an issue here in the US as long as UL listed equipment is used and proper permitting of installation is done.

UNfortunately the OP is not in the US and is thinking of doing everything himself. Apart from that, you are spot on.

Ok - I wasn't sure who you were responding to.  And just as an FYI - in some states here, homeowners can be permitted and do FYI just like an electrician  For example, in WA state were I live, I can go online and pull an electrical permit and do whatever electrical work I want - then call for an inspection when I'm done - no difference at all from an electrician.   I did the DC work for my solar installation that way.

[Simon]

Well it's a comercial off the shelf inverter with any required approvals and it plugs in so I would not need to be an electrician to hook it up.

[Mechanical Menace]

The system paid for its self in 8 years, my total cost for power is about $250.00 per year.
Was 200-350 per mo.

I spend a little more (at current conversion rates an extra $10) than your top monthly spend on electricity in a year. I think I should maybe look into a proper whole house system myself...

[tggzzz]

Well it's a comercial off the shelf inverter with any required approvals and it plugs in so I would not need to be an electrician to hook it up.

I can't comment on whether that is sufficient. My cautionary tale about insurance companies' SOP...

I was rear-ended in a queue of traffic; I moved forward and stopped, the person behind me moved forward and didn't stop. That's pretty much the prime example of a "not-at-fault" accident.

The insurance company sent around a loss adjuster, and the first thing he did was look at my tyres. If you think about it, they simply cannot have been relevant to the accident let alone the cause of it!

Why? Because if the tread was too low or anything else amiss, my car would have been "unroadworthy" -  and therefore he wouldn't have needed to assess the damage.

Don't presume that insurance companies aren't adept at wriggling out of what you think they might owe you.

[Simon]

I try and hope not to rely on insurance companies. they are certainly not in the business of paying out.

[tggzzz]

I try and hope not to rely on insurance companies. they are certainly not in the business of paying out.

Just so. If you can swallow a loss, don't bother with insurance. OTOH, I'm no longer prepared to risk losing house and contents, so they are insured!

As with all these calculations, it comes down to an individual's assessment of the maximum plausible loss - plus how easy it is to mitigate the loss or probably of loss.

[Simon]

oh I'm insured. But I often see instances when driving where I miss having an accident that would not be my fault and would get blamed for anyway. I have had two car accidents aready both not my fault but both deemed to be my fault. Insurance is not a guarantee.

[tggzzz]

oh I'm insured. But I often see instances when driving where I miss having an accident that would not be my fault and would get blamed for anyway. I have had two car accidents aready both not my fault but both deemed to be my fault. Insurance is not a guarantee.

Just so. The worst outcome is that after the event you find you weren't covered because they deem that you had invalidated a precondition.

When buying insurance I don't bother to look at what's covered, I go straight to the Ts & Cs to understand the exclusion clauses Or is that

[Seekonk]

Time to get one of those $20 dash cams.

I have a second home that is totally off grid that is used five months a year.  I've built most of the electronics and no rebates on the panels.  Still the payoff is pretty quick not having to pay monthly service fees alone.  Only about 1500W and it provides all my hot water and just two car batteries for storage.  One is out of my car which I don't bring and the other is the boat battery when not in the boat. Scheduling and prioritizing replace massive storage.  And a change in lifestyle.  Incidentely the utility company at my other home says I use twice the electricity of my average neighbor.