Author Topic: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery  (Read 13015 times)

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Offline CirclotronTopic starter

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Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« on: March 27, 2018, 06:04:22 am »
Not that you have to top up car batteries very much nowadays, but if you do then distilled water is recommended rather that straight tap water with all its impurities. What about tap water that has been through a domestic 2-stage filter? Might that be nearly as good as distilled water?
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2018, 06:58:36 am »
What's the filter going to catch?

It better be a goddamned good filter, to do anything at all (aka reverse osmosis)!

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Offline helius

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2018, 07:07:32 am »
I have a filter that is advertised to remove particulates, cysts, and VOCs.
It does not remove dissolved salts (ions), which are what cause problems for batteries.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2018, 07:26:52 am »
Some filters put out what's effectively the same as distilled water, but it really depends on the equipment.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2018, 07:35:03 am »
Water Science is a black art but some basics.

Domestic Filtration will take out some nasties including some tastes and taints but not generally minerals or TDS. So DON'T use it on batteries, the minerals and remaining chemicals will react with the acids and plate chemistry.

R/O or reverse osmosis will remove a lot more of the TDS, minerals and tiny particulates and these are generally preceeded by filtration similar to domestic filtration. Depending on the source water R/O can be to pure to drink and is actually re mineralised and ph corrected for human consumption in some cases. R/O will get you between 10-100 ppm on even the worst water. Potentially usable in batteries but a little more post treatment would be in order generally.

De Min or De Ionised waters are nearly pure to under a couple of PPM maximum and a lot lower for lab water supplies. It can corrode stainless steel and destroys copper and some brasses very quickly as well. This is the stuff that goes in batteries and not into humans  ;)

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Offline james_s

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2018, 09:40:06 pm »
I strongly suspect that the biggest difference between a car battery that lasts 2 years and one that lasts 10+ years is the purity of the materials and electrolyte. Seems prudent to just use distilled water if you have to top one up, it's not like it's expensive or has to be done particularly often.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2018, 10:44:59 pm »
Seems prudent to just use distilled water if you have to top one up, it's not like it's expensive or has to be done particularly often.
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Online Red Squirrel

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2018, 10:10:30 pm »
Domestic filters arn't designed to take away all the minerals as some of them are beneficial for you to drink.  So the water that comes out will still have some minerals in it.    You want the purest water within possible means.  I just buy distilled water at the grocery store.  I assume it's good enough. 
 

Online Doctorandus_P

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2018, 07:16:01 am »
"Distilled" water is not what it used to be.
If you go to a grocery store / super market and buy "distilled" water ( sold for ironing clothes and such) and you read the fine print, you will very likely see it is "de-mineralized".
This very likely means it's pushed through a reverse-osmosis filter or similar.
Distilling the water is too expensive with no extra benefits.

So what do you mean by "filtered" water?
What kind of filter?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2018, 08:12:24 am »
Put a bucket outside on a wet night and decant it into some storage bottles marked, you guessed it; battery water !
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Online beanflying

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2018, 08:56:43 am »
"Distilled" water is not what it used to be.
If you go to a grocery store / super market and buy "distilled" water ( sold for ironing clothes and such) and you read the fine print, you will very likely see it is "de-mineralized".
This very likely means it's pushed through a reverse-osmosis filter or similar.
Distilling the water is too expensive with no extra benefits.

So what do you mean by "filtered" water?
What kind of filter?

De Mineralised isn't R/O in the Scientific meaning it is only Mineral Reduced. For it to be regarded as DeMin normally a secondary process is then carried out on it to remove more of the minerals.

Distilled water and Demin Water are 'generally' closer in chemistry so your bottle is maybe just distilled as it is a simple one step process.

The biggest issue here is the snake oil filter and water supply companies out there with their 'far infrared' and 'magnetic' filtration technologies taking water filtration back to pseudo science.  :horse:

Unless there is data on process, ppm, tds, ph and proper chemical analysis you are still most likely being fed BS.

Put a bucket outside on a wet night and decant it into some storage bottles marked, you guessed it; battery water !

In Gods country removed from most of the pollutants you could do worse :) I used to live about 100m off the Southern Ocean so a little more mineral in the form of Salt than good for batteries ;)
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Online Red Squirrel

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2018, 03:17:03 pm »
"Distilled" water is not what it used to be.
If you go to a grocery store / super market and buy "distilled" water ( sold for ironing clothes and such) and you read the fine print, you will very likely see it is "de-mineralized".
This very likely means it's pushed through a reverse-osmosis filter or similar.
Distilling the water is too expensive with no extra benefits.

So what do you mean by "filtered" water?
What kind of filter?

Wait are you saying there could still be stuff left in it?  Is there a way to test this?  How would I go about making my own distilled water, is it safe to just boil water and collect the steam or will there still be other particles in that like dust?   I didn't realize I was slowly killing my batteries by using distilled water from the grocery store.
 

Offline GerryBags

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2018, 03:36:26 pm »
"Distilled" water is not what it used to be.
If you go to a grocery store / super market and buy "distilled" water ( sold for ironing clothes and such) and you read the fine print, you will very likely see it is "de-mineralized".
This very likely means it's pushed through a reverse-osmosis filter or similar.
Distilling the water is too expensive with no extra benefits.

So what do you mean by "filtered" water?
What kind of filter?

You can test the purity of water with an EC meter, it measures electrical conductivity and gives results in ppm that indicate how much stuff that's not water is there. As I'm sure you know, pure water isn't conductive. They (the meters) are commonly used by hydroponic growers to monitor how much nutrient they are adding and are fairly cheap <$50 I think.

Wait are you saying there could still be stuff left in it?  Is there a way to test this?  How would I go about making my own distilled water, is it safe to just boil water and collect the steam or will there still be other particles in that like dust?   I didn't realize I was slowly killing my batteries by using distilled water from the grocery store.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2018, 04:21:11 pm »
Wait are you saying there could still be stuff left in it?  Is there a way to test this?  How would I go about making my own distilled water, is it safe to just boil water and collect the steam or will there still be other particles in that like dust?   I didn't realize I was slowly killing my batteries by using distilled water from the grocery store.

Probably not very much.

One way to test is to evaporate some of it to dryness on a glass plate or dish. If you do this with tap water you will probably see a significant white residue left behind. If you do it with distilled water you should see no residue and no murky film left behind on the glass.

De-ionized water is industrially made by passing the water through ion exchange beds, but I doubt they can do this and have a potable, food grade product for sale on a supermarket shelf. So I suspect the supermarket product is really made by distillation as it says on the label, or perhaps by RO.
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2018, 04:34:39 pm »
It's the minerals (salts) that matter. Water that's been through a proper ion exchange column is acceptable. Domestic filters, no. 
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2018, 05:43:34 pm »
Some filters put out what's effectively the same as distilled water, but it really depends on the equipment.
Unless these are industrial filters I strongly doubt that. Drinking water needs to contain a certain amount of salts and other 'contaminants' otherwise too much salt will dissolve in it causing cell membrane damage. Drinking distilled water isn't healthy and the lethal dose is much smaller compared to regular 'drinking water'.
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Online beanflying

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2018, 12:00:52 am »

Probably not very much.

One way to test is to evaporate some of it to dryness on a glass plate or dish. If you do this with tap water you will probably see a significant white residue left behind. If you do it with distilled water you should see no residue and no murky film left behind on the glass.

De-ionized water is industrially made by passing the water through ion exchange beds, but I doubt they can do this and have a potable, food grade product for sale on a supermarket shelf. So I suspect the supermarket product is really made by distillation as it says on the label, or perhaps by RO.

R/O is NOT De Mineralised! This is a BS internet MYTH |O

De Ionised water as you state is the sort of 'secondary' step I was talking about post an R/O process this typically gets water under 1-2ppm (effectively demineralised) and is acidic and not fit for human consumption (large doses will kill you).

However a resin bed (ion exchange) after rough filtering will yield much higher ppm counts if not fed R/O as a pre filter.

Ion exchange filtration is done post basic/carbon filtration in the coffee industry in particular to obtain water stripped of most minerals but leaving the ph balance and ppm levels safe for human consumption generally levels around 50ppm are the point aimed for. ** No Good for Batteries but fine for humans.
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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2018, 01:03:30 am »
Drinking distilled water isn't healthy and the lethal dose is much smaller compared to regular 'drinking water'.

That's utter nonsense. There's so much FUD about distilled water on the web with nearly all of it from people who know NOTHING about the science but are out to make money on thoroughly debunked BS.  All this crap about corroding your arteries and organs. I mean, think about it.

Anyway - OP, just go to the grocery store, buy a gallon of distilled water (which is usually listed as ozonated, too, but it doesn't matter). It will not have any detectable minerals. Put it in your battery and use the rest to make a decent cup of tea or other drink. If you are worried, take a multivitamin first. Not that it's necessary. Even mineral water provides only a minor contribution to the daily requirement of minerals (here). The majority comes from food.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 01:10:45 am by JohnnyMalaria »
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2018, 01:22:06 am »
De Ionised water as you state is the sort of 'secondary' step I was talking about post an R/O process this typically gets water under 1-2ppm (effectively demineralised) and is acidic and not fit for human consumption (large doses will kill you).

Yeah, it's deadly stuff.  Reacts violently with n-butyl lithium!  Even so, people are so careless around the stuff!  DHMO kills so many thousands each year.  (Millions?)

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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2018, 01:43:00 am »
De Ionised water as you state is the sort of 'secondary' step I was talking about post an R/O process this typically gets water under 1-2ppm (effectively demineralised) and is acidic and not fit for human consumption (large doses will kill you).

That's because all water exposed to the atmosphere will quickly dissolve CO2 eventually giving a pH of ~5.6. The acid in your gut (HCl) is at pH 1. That's a factor of approx. a million greater than the water with the CO2. Yet we survive for decades with all that high acid sloshing around.
 

Online beanflying

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2018, 03:48:45 am »
Except that several liters a day of de ionised water will increase the stripping of useful minerals from the body and may in some cases cause health issues. This is not pseudo science but is a fact!
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Offline IanB

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2018, 03:50:58 am »
Except that several liters a day of de ionised water will increase the stripping of useful minerals from the body and may in some cases cause health issues. This is not pseudo science but is a fact!

Absolutely it is a fact! Drinking several liters of water a day is bad for your health. Drinking several gallons of water a day might even kill you. I think most health professionals will agree upon that  ;D
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 03:52:29 am by IanB »
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2018, 03:58:59 am »
I forget how much dietary mineral comes from hard water, though I recall it's a not insignificant amount in areas with hard water (which includes plenty of calcium and magnesium in my area, incidentally).

If you're not getting enough minerals in your diet, because of what water you drink, that's your problem; easily solved with a multivitamin if nothing else, but a more varied diet should do just as well. :)

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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2018, 04:11:44 am »
Except that several liters a day of de ionised water will increase the stripping of useful minerals from the body and may in some cases cause health issues. This is not pseudo science but is a fact!

Absolutely it is a fact! Drinking several liters of water a day is bad for your health. Drinking several gallons of water a day might even kill you. I think most health professionals will agree upon that  ;D

Yes, that is a fact. Drinking several gallons of water a day WILL kill you - distilled or not.

A proper diet contains enough minerals such that drinking distilled water will have no ill effects. If you eat a poor diet then, yes, it could lead to problems. Look at that paper I linked to - drinking tap water provides only a fraction of minerals your body gets everyday.

I'm sorry but all this "distilled water will kill you" shit is exactly that. Unless you have a dreadful diet and that's what will kill you.

And don't get me going on that high pH water fad  ;D  I can't believe people waste their money on it. They are literally pissing it away.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Filtered vs distilled water in lead acid battery
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2018, 04:13:01 am »
Some people live in areas with soft water, with barely any dissolved minerals at all. I always notice this when vacationing in such places as the soap becomes so slippery it won't rinse off at all no matter how hard you try. Basically what comes out of the taps (faucets) is rainwater (aka distilled water)...
 


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