Author Topic: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.  (Read 18829 times)

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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« on: May 25, 2018, 11:27:01 pm »
Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone can provide some guidence about the price point of LifePO4 batterys. .  I'm investigating some 10kWh battery packs.  The pricing being around $3800 USD.

Whats the going price for this battery technology
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2018, 02:12:48 am »
I paid a little more than $100 or so for 60 32650 cells to make a 12.8V 82Ah pack, but that obviously doesn't include the time needed to assemble the pack.
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Offline ahbushnell

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 09:47:27 pm »
I paid a little more than $100 or so for 60 32650 cells to make a 12.8V 82Ah pack, but that obviously doesn't include the time needed to assemble the pack.

Did you include battery management hardware? 
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 10:40:19 pm »
Did you include battery management hardware? 
The BMS is about $10 or so. I modded it similar to what Kerry Wong did for his battery pack, but I put LEDs across the resistors to give a visual indication that balancing is active.
http://www.kerrywong.com/2017/09/10/modifying-a-4s-100a-lifepo4-bms-module/comment-page-1/
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2018, 09:15:20 am »
Interesting.  At $100 for a 12V 82AH, its  nearly 1kwhr.    THat would make 10kW, a little mroe than $1000, thats nearly 1/4 of the price of a finshed system.

Now makes me wonder
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 02:16:33 am »
I've been unable to locate LifePO4 batterys at anywhere near this $100/kWh price point NiHaoMike
 
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 03:41:28 am »

I wonder if his video created demand which raised prices.

For a pack as large as what you're looking for, a Nissan Leaf pack would probably be good. It might even be possible to reuse the stock BMS. The voltage of around 360V or so is just about right to run common 240V VFDs and PSUs from.
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 09:36:56 am »
Where did you get your batterys so cheap?
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2018, 04:19:33 pm »
Amazon, but they don't see them anymore. Try to find out how much a working Nissan Leaf pack goes for at your local junkyards.
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2018, 08:30:17 pm »
a leaf battery pack is probably not appropriate for what i need, and i realy dont' want somethign thats got 80% of the life gone already.  At the market price of what they are asking for at the moment, the economics dont' make sense for my application.

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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2018, 10:27:27 pm »
Why won't a Leaf pack in good condition work for your application?
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 12:48:59 am »
Becuase if I did this, i'd want to do it with new materials. ( its going to have to last for a while ).  I'm also wanting to do somethign thats repeatable, and doing that with 2nd hand materials that may or may not be avaialble is problematic.

Also the form factor and all those other thigns just dont' lend them selves to the problem well.

I have variable priced power.. ( we buy power on Spot Market ) which menas on average i pay about 20-25% less than people who are paying on fixed rate contracts.  I can get pricing indication 15 minutes before the next 1/2 hour charing period of what the price point is going to be.   

I need to do some deeper analysis of our usage, and price peaks etc, and work out what the optimal investment in the technology is, in terms of how much to buy to futher reduce the peaks.    Putting solar on will optimize this further.
   
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 01:20:55 am »
What loads are you running? There might be alternatives to using batteries for at least some of the loads.
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 04:34:54 am »
Already have so called 'smart appliances' so can ditch some load from peaks.. ( dishwasher, washing machine etc ).   Have solar hot water ( with electric backup becuase winter would mean not a lot of water ), but that is already set up for offpeak.
Converting from electricity to other energy sources is really not a viable proposition for most of what i use.   ( i dont' use electricity for heating, we burn trees! )


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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 05:34:18 am »
10kWh seems like overkill for your application. Have you actually done an analysis of the on peak loads and how much each one contributes to the total?
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 08:54:39 am »
Yes, lots of analysis. The big issue is that when you are buying power on the spot market ( wholesales ) pricing can vary signficantly and in a erratic way.   If a power station drops of the grid the spot price can go through the roof really quickly..

My average price for power is around 0.08/kWh  ( plus fixed transmission costs of around 0.09/kWh ).   It has dropped as low as 0.02 and sometimes peaks ( for quite short periods ) over 0.70.   

I really want to be able to cover myself for 4-5 hours at 2kW.  ( essentially i dont' want to make much in the way of lifestyle change ).. so when it does peak out, i can self supply.

But right now, at the battery prices is not actually breaking even.

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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 08:55:27 am »
^^^ putting solar self generation in may sigingicnatly change the picture.
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Offline Gary.M

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 10:52:49 am »
What about the tesla powerwall.?
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 03:04:57 pm »
I still think a Nissan Leaf pack would be the way to go. Wait for a deal and get one for substantially less than the $200/kWh individual modules go for.
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2018, 02:55:30 am »
Thanks but a nissan leaf power pack might met your requiremetns, but it does not met mine.
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2018, 02:56:47 am »
I still think a Nissan Leaf pack would be the way to go. Wait for a deal and get one for substantially less than the $200/kWh individual modules go for.

thanks, but i dont' think it will meet my requriements.   
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Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2018, 02:57:47 am »
What about the tesla powerwall.?

The idea is great. the problme is at the price, you just can't get get a payback on the investment.
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2018, 03:31:35 pm »
You can take a look there: http://www.batteryspace.com/96v-lifepo4-battery-packs.aspx
You have to ask for a quote i think.

For 10 kWh, it's most likely going to be over $5000.
Ouch.
 

Offline mrpacketheadTopic starter

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2018, 06:48:01 pm »
You can take a look there: http://www.batteryspace.com/96v-lifepo4-battery-packs.aspx
You have to ask for a quote i think.

For 10 kWh, it's most likely going to be over $5000.
Ouch.

i can buy 10kW for $3800 without any trouble... Still too high a price point i think.
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Offline fourtytwo42

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Re: Price Point of lifepo4 batterys.
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2018, 07:07:44 pm »
I really want to be able to cover myself for 4-5 hours at 2kW.  ( essentially i dont' want to make much in the way of lifestyle change ).. so when it does peak out, i can self supply.
Had you thought about mechanical generation (LPG/Diesel) as the capital cost may be lower ?
 


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