Author Topic: Store-Dot battery tech?  (Read 796 times)

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Offline max_torque

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Store-Dot battery tech?
« on: September 16, 2017, 10:16:13 PM »
So, what do we think of Store-Dots battery tech?

Currently clearly it's vapourware, but is it total Bull or has some promise?


StoreDot described how it has created its battery technology:

Quote
StoreDot’s core technology incorporates chemically synthesized organic molecules of non-biological origin.

http://www.store-dot.com/business-units

They claim "5 min charge for 300 mile range" in an EV application.  Ok, even if the battery can do that, a 300mile EV is going to require between 90 and 110 kWhrs of energy, so, if we say 110kWhr inc charging losses delivering that in 5min means a 1.32MW charger is required, which even for a 3ph supply is not a trivially small device!

 

Offline ConKbot

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Re: Store-Dot battery tech?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 03:01:33 AM »
Quote
contains, in addition to lithium, non-flammable organic compounds encased in a multi-layer safety-protection structure that prevents over-voltage and heating, and is therefore considerably safer than traditional LiBs. 

Sounds related to Lithium ion capacitor  http://www.mouser.com/m_new/Taiyo-Yuden/taiyo-yuden-lithium-ion-capacitors/  not particularly ridiculous, but the page is lacking hard numbers on my brief skim. I'd assume the EV/phone charging claims are from numbers scaled up from a coin battery test cell.  Also, lol at it being "safe" because of a protection circuit. Ask Samsung about how protection circuits are a 100% guarantee. Though a non-flammable electrolyte/solvent would certainly be an improvement.

New battery tech :yawn: call me when there is a pilot plant and it looks like it could be commercially viable if the plant is scaled up.  At least this one isn't just some university paper where the PR department blew it up.
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Store-Dot battery tech?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 12:57:52 AM »
Phones typically have batteries of between 1Ah and 2Ah capacity. To charge a 1.5Ah battery in five minutes would require a current of 18 Amps. That is way beyond the capability of a typical USB or similar charging lead.  I doubt if a suitable connector could even be provided without making the phone somewhat larger.

As for electric cars, it's the current carrying capacity of the supply cable that typically limits the charging time, so a battery capable of being charged faster would not necessarily be any advantage. A megawatt charge rate would for example require a 25mm cable (the size of typical house supply tails) but with 10kV on it. Lower voltage would be safer but the strength required to manipulate the even heavier and very stiff cable would be a real problem.

For comparison purposes the energy density of petrol/gasoline is about 45MJ per kg -equivalent to a Megawatt for 45 seconds- and a typical hose can deliver several kilograms in 45s. Which equals a multi-megawatt energy delivery rate, achieved with reasonable safety (Smokers might earn a Darwin Award, but that's their problem) and no need for the strength of a gorilla to hook-up. Kinda hard to compete with.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 02:10:43 AM by IanMacdonald »
 
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Offline viperidae

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Re: Store-Dot battery tech?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2017, 05:27:42 PM »
That's crazy. Charging a 400V 100kWh battery in 5 minutes is like 3000A
 

Online Cyberdragon

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Re: Store-Dot battery tech?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 03:44:27 AM »
They're probably not batteries but supercaps, but they would still need a huge current. So unless they have a superconductor charging system, it's time to apply the giant stamp of BULLSHIT :bullshit:.

EDIT: they are supercaps
Quote
Similar to known super capacitor technology
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 03:49:18 AM by Cyberdragon »
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Offline mux

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Re: Store-Dot battery tech?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 08:17:20 PM »
Nah, 3-5kA is easily doable on DC, even with human-handleable charging leads. But your granny won't be able to lift the cable.

Mind you that quad-0 cables (~10mm diameter) are used for 1.5kA DC on trains, air-cooled. Water-cool them and I bet they can do 3kA over a couple meters.

But really, it's a bit of a "let's emulate gas stations" type of system to use charging leads anyway. I suspect ultra fast chargers to either use robotic insertion or some kind of under-the-car automatic charging system. That would allow for shorter internal cable runs to the battery and more convenience for the user. No more getting out of the car.
 


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