### Poll

#### Do you keep records of your solar production

No I dont have solar
26 (55.3%)
No I don't care
4 (8.5%)
I look at the GTI LCD occasionally
5 (10.6%)
I look at the GTI display often
4 (8.5%)
I look at the GTI display even after dark
4 (8.5%)
I have solar, no GTI and I keep records (like Mike)
4 (8.5%)

Total Members Voted: 47

### Author Topic: UK solar doldrums  (Read 16528 times)

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#### ahbushnell

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #75 on: January 14, 2018, 04:32:09 am »
if 1W = 1J/s then 1Wh = 3600W = 3600 J/s.
One of the very first things they would have taught you in high school science is that units must match across an equals sign, so what you wrote there is bogus. 1Wh = 3600W is the most blatant garbage any 11 year old with an IQ around average should know is wrong, even if they struggle to figure out what is right.

Try something that keeps the units in good shape, like:

1Wh = 3600Ws = 3600J
It's good to know someone is learned in physics class.

#### fourtytwo42

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #76 on: January 14, 2018, 05:36:20 am »
Shame really what I started as I light hearted thread about the poor weather for PVers seems to have become a spat about units by people (going by the survey) who have nothing to do with PV anyway!

Maybe this site has a lot of bored people who like nothing better than hijacking threads for a good argument

#### Simon

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #77 on: January 14, 2018, 06:57:56 am »
Sorry, seems some do like to pick up and pick holes in things that in the context were pretty self explanatory.
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop New stock now in of EEVblog 121GW and Brymen 235 Now selling a selection of Probe Master probes.

Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

#### tggzzz

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #78 on: January 14, 2018, 08:08:22 am »
Sorry, seems some do like to pick up and pick holes in things that in the context were pretty self explanatory.

Possibly to the writer, but not to me (and maybe other readers).

I find statements like "London is 63mph away" or "speed when travelling to London is 150miles" to be confusing.

I would have thought a simple (i.e. easily correctable) mistake had been made; I'm surprised there has been all this discussion.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 08:15:41 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less

#### fourtytwo42

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2018, 08:49:21 am »
TGGZZZ I would say to those of who are involved in renewable energy and have a genuine interest it was perfectly obvious.

To those who seem to enjoy picking holes in things being said on threads they have nothing to do with and obsfucating the thread for no other purpose than some inane self satisfaction I wish to hell you would firstly desist and secondly bugger off somewhere else!!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 04:50:51 am by fourtytwo42 »

#### ahbushnell

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2018, 08:57:00 am »
TGGZZZ I would say to those of who are involved in renewable energy and have a genuine interest it was perfectly obvious.

To those who seem to enjoy picking holes in things being said on threads they have nothing to do with and obsfucating the thread for no other purpose than some inane self satisfaction I wish to hell you would firstly desist and secondly bugger off somewhere else!!
So you don't think people should use watts and joules correctly?  It's a very basic concept.

#### tggzzz

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2018, 09:07:12 am »
TGGZZZ I would say to those of who are involved in renewable energy and have a genuine interest it was perfectly obvious.

If it was obvious then a simple explanation would have avoided all this long discussion. The long discussion indicates that it was not obvious to many participants.

I am interested in renewable energy, both personally and because it is of vital importance to our children -- I want to see it succeed. To that end I have frequently been to professional meetings about the subject; the next one is on the 18th January. However Ill have to re-check whether it has been pre-empted by some recent developments.

I want to see hard numbers and well-reasoned arguments; like others I am frustrated by the "hot air" and "obfuscation" that often accompanies the subject.

I have no idea what a "non-genuine" interest might be.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 09:10:32 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less

#### fourtytwo42

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2018, 04:51:55 am »
I wish to unreservedly apologise for my earlier comments, although they may have been called for the language was intemperate to say the least.

#### tggzzz

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2018, 05:27:48 am »
I wish to unreservedly apologise for my earlier comments, although they may have been called for the language was intemperate to say the least.

Apology accepted. We all make mistakes, and the test is what happens thereafter

Never did manage to convince my daughter I was perfect

Besides, sometimes a strongly expressed difference of opinion is entirely appropriate, and we shouldn't be too hung up about slightly offending people. I'm sure we have all met people for whom http://dilbert.com/strip/2018-01-08 is warranted.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 05:34:01 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less

The following users thanked this post: fourtytwo42

#### stj

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2018, 10:02:06 am »
here is an interesting thought.

*if* you could gather evidence showing who was behind chemtrail spraying in a specific country,
could you drag them into court for a class-action on bahalf of solar users??

#### NiHaoMike

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2018, 04:35:24 pm »
Where's the "my solar setup doesn't have an inverter" option?

I only do occasional checks with a clamp meter just to make sure there's no problems with the system. The exact amount of power coming out of the panel is not that important. What is tracked more often are the altcoins coming out of the miners (powered by the solar setup), since that's what my best friend and I really care about.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.

#### nfmax

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2018, 11:29:51 pm »
I have a grid-tied inverter on a nominal 1.7kW system. For the last 6 years, I have been logging the generation meter pulses (1 pulse per Wh). While this has not been without hiccups, I have enough data to be able to generate the mean annual generation plot shown. This gives, for each day of the year and each 15 minute interval, the mean power generated by the array and delivered to the grid (i.e. subtracting the inverter losses). The colour scale shown is in kW. Overlaid on this plot is the position of the sun at every moment, in the form of a double contour plot. The green contour lines are elevation, the purple lines azimuth.

This shows up the shading which limits the afternoon/evening performance of the array, and the surprising* variability of the weather, even in the summer. Also, how dire the winter performance is at this latitude!

From the sun contour plots, you should be able to work out roughly where this array is located...

*Only really surprising to people who don't live in the UK.

#### ahbushnell

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2018, 03:23:06 am »
This shows up the shading which limits the afternoon/evening performance of the array, and the surprising* variability of the weather, even in the summer. Also, how dire the winter performance is at this latitude!

From the sun contour plots, you should be able to work out roughly where this array is located...

Very cool plat.

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2018, 04:03:24 am »
*Only really surprising to people who don't live in the UK.

I don't live in the UK, but I've spent enough time there to grok it.

I will say that is (in the language of my 3 year old) "10 times awesome". It's rare to see such a large amount of data presented in a format that makes the intended view so obvious. It really is 10 times awesome.

#### nfmax

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2018, 05:38:48 am »
I will say that is (in the language of my 3 year old) "10 times awesome". It's rare to see such a large amount of data presented in a format that makes the intended view so obvious. It really is 10 times awesome.

Aww, thanks! This kind of data presentation, and wrangling the raw outputs from sensors into something presentable, is more or less what I do for a living these days. I used to be an electronics engineer...

#### fourtytwo42

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #90 on: January 17, 2018, 05:57:56 am »
I have a grid-tied inverter on a nominal 1.7kW system. For the last 6 years, I have been logging the generation meter pulses (1 pulse per Wh). While this has not been without hiccups, I have enough data to be able to generate the mean annual generation plot shown. This gives, for each day of the year and each 15 minute interval, the mean power generated by the array and delivered to the grid (i.e. subtracting the inverter losses). The colour scale shown is in kW. Overlaid on this plot is the position of the sun at every moment, in the form of a double contour plot. The green contour lines are elevation, the purple lines azimuth.

This shows up the shading which limits the afternoon/evening performance of the array, and the surprising* variability of the weather, even in the summer. Also, how dire the winter performance is at this latitude!

From the sun contour plots, you should be able to work out roughly where this array is located...

*Only really surprising to people who don't live in the UK.
Woww that is an astonishing data presentation, so many axis intelegbly displayed, I guess it helps that mother earth has related them all in a nice order As for the performance at this lattitude I think we are at the limit's of financial viablity (without subsidy) for DIY systems (IMOP). Am I being stupid or are you about 10 degrees further north than me (I am 52deg) ?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 06:06:55 am by fourtytwo42 »

#### fourtytwo42

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #91 on: January 17, 2018, 06:04:20 am »
Where's the "my solar setup doesn't have an inverter" option?

I only do occasional checks with a clamp meter just to make sure there's no problems with the system. The exact amount of power coming out of the panel is not that important. What is tracked more often are the altcoins coming out of the miners (powered by the solar setup), since that's what my best friend and I really care about.
I do apologize it ran out of options after five and I already put in the easy ones First time I tried a poll.
Yours is an interesting use of solar energy, I am not sure where it fit's on the saving the planet scale as it's like doing something we don't need to live but them some would argue that keeping me alive is also a waste of energy!

#### nfmax

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #92 on: January 17, 2018, 06:08:46 am »
Am I being stupid or are you about 10 degrees further north than me (I am 52deg) ?

#### fourtytwo42

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #93 on: January 17, 2018, 06:11:45 am »
The clag lifted a little today and I got 1.4 EUEU'ts, average for the last week prior to today 0.1 EUEU'ts.
Please note an EUEU is an Ebonian Universal Energy Unit apparantly invented to avoid disputes or misunderstandings with there neighbors

#### fourtytwo42

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #94 on: January 17, 2018, 06:17:05 am »
Am I being stupid or are you about 10 degrees further north than me (I am 52deg) ?
Isnt that in the English channel or Irish sea (Guess I can't work out the azmuth) ?

#### NiHaoMike

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #95 on: January 17, 2018, 01:21:41 pm »
I do apologize it ran out of options after five and I already put in the easy ones First time I tried a poll.
Yours is an interesting use of solar energy, I am not sure where it fit's on the saving the planet scale as it's like doing something we don't need to live but them some would argue that keeping me alive is also a waste of energy!
I do proudly say that the positive impact of just that one solar panel was felt around the world. It is also important to note that because my mining setup is very efficient, it doesn't even use the full output of the panel. What's left over runs my other IT equipment.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.

#### ahbushnell

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #96 on: January 17, 2018, 04:30:57 pm »
I do apologize it ran out of options after five and I already put in the easy ones First time I tried a poll.
Yours is an interesting use of solar energy, I am not sure where it fit's on the saving the planet scale as it's like doing something we don't need to live but them some would argue that keeping me alive is also a waste of energy!
I do proudly say that the positive impact of just that one solar panel was felt around the world. It is also important to note that because my mining setup is very efficient, it doesn't even use the full output of the panel. What's left over runs my other IT equipment.
How long will it take to pay for it with bit coins?

#### NiHaoMike

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #97 on: January 17, 2018, 06:06:44 pm »
How long will it take to pay for it with bit coins?
Altcoins are not the same as Bitcoin. That setup (4 smartphones, 2 tablets, and a small ASIC) was actually making a very good profit of nearly $150/month until the difficulty went up. Now it's doing about$45/month.

The real gain for me, though, is that all my friends were really impressed with what I do with technology. And that I'm helping to make the world a better place.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.

#### fourtytwo42

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #98 on: January 17, 2018, 10:30:49 pm »
Altcoins are not the same as Bitcoin. That setup (4 smartphones, 2 tablets, and a small ASIC) was actually making a very good profit of nearly $150/month until the difficulty went up. Now it's doing about$45/month.

The real gain for me, though, is that all my friends were really impressed with what I do with technology. And that I'm helping to make the world a better place.
Thats an amazing system and much better than burning fossil fuels to do it as I have heard some are doing on an industrial scale! I found out it's easy to add a 6th option to the vote for non-GTI systems as was mine till recently Of course the variations on a PV system are endless I was trying to keep it not too techy

#### IanMacdonald

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##### Re: UK solar doldrums
« Reply #99 on: January 19, 2018, 02:03:28 am »
I do have a couple of panels I use for battery charging, but in a UK January forget it. Only a tenth of summer output.

Smf