Author Topic: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?  (Read 94011 times)

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Offline gildasd

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2900 on: January 11, 2019, 05:47:36 pm »
If autonomous, on call cars do take over our two and three car garages will be used as the already often are - to store the stuff that SWMBO doesn't want in the house.

On a more optimistic note they will also be the place to setup and use our more important toys like mills, thermal chambers, water jet tables and the like.
I welcome our self driving overlords if it means a CNC lathe in the garage newly extended man cave.
I'm electronically illiterate
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2901 on: January 12, 2019, 01:26:02 am »
If autonomous, on call cars do take over our two and three car garages will be used as the already often are - to store the stuff that SWMBO doesn't want in the house.

On a more optimistic note they will also be the place to setup and use our more important toys like mills, thermal chambers, water jet tables and the like.

You must be single.  In my household I would lose that battle and it would be turned into a spa.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2902 on: January 12, 2019, 05:08:33 am »
If autonomous, on call cars do take over our two and three car garages will be used as the already often are - to store the stuff that SWMBO doesn't want in the house.

On a more optimistic note they will also be the place to setup and use our more important toys like mills, thermal chambers, water jet tables and the like.

You must be single.  In my household I would lose that battle and it would be turned into a spa.

You just haven't learned the negotiating process.  "I would love to turn it into a spa, but there is no way to get those nasty oil smells from years of ICE vehicles into the space.  Besides you can be pampered so much better with the membership I got you at XXXX"

It is going to cost you, but you can have your toys.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2903 on: January 12, 2019, 06:45:13 am »
If autonomous, on call cars do take over our two and three car garages will be used as the already often are - to store the stuff that SWMBO doesn't want in the house.

On a more optimistic note they will also be the place to setup and use our more important toys like mills, thermal chambers, water jet tables and the like.

You must be single.  In my household I would loose that battle and it would be turned into a spa.

You just haven't learned the negotiating process.  "I would love to turn it into a spa, but there is no way to get those nasty oil smells from years of ICE vehicles into the space.  Besides you can be pampered so much better with the membership I got you at XXXX"

It is going to cost you, but you can have your toys.

You know if I allow my wife to convert the garage into a spa it would keep her motor purring.  In return she would keep my motor reved more often.  I think I might like that better in the long run.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 07:38:53 am by DougSpindler »
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2904 on: January 13, 2019, 11:47:25 am »
Here's what Finland is doing to store nuclear waste.
Question I have is how/why do nuclear power plants release CO2?


 

Offline Nauris

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2905 on: January 14, 2019, 01:58:09 am »
Question I have is how/why do nuclear power plants release CO2?
So much steel and concrete needed in construction and things like that.
 

Offline ahbushnell

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2906 on: January 14, 2019, 05:05:20 am »
Question I have is how/why do nuclear power plants release CO2?
So much steel and concrete needed in construction and things like that.
I wonder how much concrete per kW for a wind turbine or solar or a nuclear.  I guess maybe per kW-hr over the life of the plants might be better.  I have read that concrete production produces a lot of CO2. 
 
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2907 on: January 14, 2019, 06:09:58 am »
Question I have is how/why do nuclear power plants release CO2?
So much steel and concrete needed in construction and things like that.
I wonder how much concrete per kW for a wind turbine or solar or a nuclear.  I guess maybe per kW-hr over the life of the plants might be better.  I have read that concrete production produces a lot of CO2. 
 

The making of cement and the curing of concrete releases a lot of CO2.  For people who are saying we need more wind and solar farms they are not factoring in how much concrete and thus CO2 would be produced.

And then we have to factor in the CO2 producted for making and transporting the iron and aluminum.

I’m not so sure anyone has accurate CO2 numbers for any of this.  There are so many ways to look at this.  CO2 is produced during the mining, the transport of the ore, the processing, transport of the processed material.  Then there is the construction of the buildings and the vehicles for the raw materials.  Then there’s the actual manufacturing of the solar panel, windo turbine, nuclear power plant etc.  The there’s the transport to the job site and the CO2 released during contraction.  Then do we include the CO2 produced by the workers when they drive to/from work?  Then there’s’ what’s produceded during the life of the power plant and the CO2 produced decommissioning and disassembling the faciility.

Not so simple is it? 


 

Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2908 on: January 14, 2019, 06:15:57 am »
the curing of concrete releases a lot of CO2.
Google says it is the other way around. Concrete can be used to trap CO2 and the curing can be improved by using CO2.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2909 on: January 14, 2019, 07:12:36 am »
the curing of concrete releases a lot of CO2.
Google says it is the other way around. Concrete can be used to trap CO2 and the curing can be improved by using CO2.

Not sure what to beleive and that's my point.

Concrete production produces eight percent of the world’s carbon dioxide emissions.  Folks in Oregon are using more treees instead of concrete.
https://archpaper.com/2019/01/concrete-production-eight-percent-co2-emissions/



 

Online apis

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2910 on: January 14, 2019, 07:40:48 am »
Quote
Cement manufacturing releases CO2 in the atmosphere both directly when calcium carbonate is heated, producing lime and carbon dioxide,[52] [53] and also indirectly through the use of energy if its production involves the emission of CO2. The cement industry produces about 10% of global man-made CO2 emissions, of which 60% is from the chemical process, and 40% from burning fuel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cement#CO2_emissions
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2911 on: January 14, 2019, 07:53:17 am »
the curing of concrete releases a lot of CO2.
Google says it is the other way around. Concrete can be used to trap CO2 and the curing can be improved by using CO2.

Not sure what to beleive and that's my point.

Concrete production produces eight percent of the world’s carbon dioxide emissions.  Folks in Oregon are using more treees instead of concrete.
https://archpaper.com/2019/01/concrete-production-eight-percent-co2-emissions/
This articly only talks about production and says there are ways to drastically reduce CO2 emissions during production.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline ahbushnell

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2912 on: January 14, 2019, 09:30:24 am »
the curing of concrete releases a lot of CO2.
Google says it is the other way around. Concrete can be used to trap CO2 and the curing can be improved by using CO2.

This from Wikipedia:
Quote
Carbon dioxide emissions and climate change
The cement industry is one of two largest producers of carbon dioxide (CO2), creating up to 5% of worldwide man-made emissions of this gas, of which 50% is from the chemical process and 40% from burning fuel.[1] The carbon dioxide CO2 produced for the manufacture of structural concrete (using ~14% cement) is estimated at 410 kg/m3 (~180 kg/tonne @ density of 2.3 g/cm3) (reduced to 290 kg/m3 with 30% fly ash replacement of cement).[3] The CO2 emission from the concrete production is directly proportional to the cement content used in the concrete mix; 900 kg of CO2 are emitted for the fabrication of every ton of cement, accounting for 88% of the emissions associated with the average concrete mix.[4][5] Cement manufacture contributes greenhouse gases both directly through the production of carbon dioxide when calcium carbonate is thermally decomposed, producing lime and carbon dioxide,[6] and also through the use of energy, particularly from the combustion of fossil fuels.
 

Online apis

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2913 on: January 14, 2019, 10:00:43 am »
As can be seen here, life-time CO2 emissions from nulear is comparable to wind and other renewables (page 3, fig 2):
https://www.parliament.uk/documents/post/postpn_383-carbon-footprint-electricity-generation.pdf
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2914 on: January 14, 2019, 10:07:30 am »
the curing of concrete releases a lot of CO2.
Google says it is the other way around. Concrete can be used to trap CO2 and the curing can be improved by using CO2.

This from Wikipedia:
Quote
Carbon dioxide emissions and climate change
The cement industry is one of two largest producers of carbon dioxide (CO2), creating up to 5% of worldwide man-made emissions of this gas, of which 50% is from the chemical process and 40% from burning fuel.[1] The carbon dioxide CO2 produced for the manufacture of structural concrete (using ~14% cement) is estimated at 410 kg/m3 (~180 kg/tonne @ density of 2.3 g/cm3) (reduced to 290 kg/m3 with 30% fly ash replacement of cement).[3] The CO2 emission from the concrete production is directly proportional to the cement content used in the concrete mix; 900 kg of CO2 are emitted for the fabrication of every ton of cement, accounting for 88% of the emissions associated with the average concrete mix.[4][5] Cement manufacture contributes greenhouse gases both directly through the production of carbon dioxide when calcium carbonate is thermally decomposed, producing lime and carbon dioxide,[6] and also through the use of energy, particularly from the combustion of fossil fuels.
I already read that. I doesn't say anything about emitting CO2 while concrete is curing. This is all about the production process of Portland cement. This is a particular type of process which can be replaced with processes emitting less CO2. If you look up the chemical reactions involved when cement is curing you'll see there is no CO2 emitted.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline ahbushnell

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2915 on: January 14, 2019, 10:50:54 am »
the curing of concrete releases a lot of CO2.
Google says it is the other way around. Concrete can be used to trap CO2 and the curing can be improved by using CO2.

This from Wikipedia:
Quote
Carbon dioxide emissions and climate change
The cement industry is one of two largest producers of carbon dioxide (CO2), creating up to 5% of worldwide man-made emissions of this gas, of which 50% is from the chemical process and 40% from burning fuel.[1] The carbon dioxide CO2 produced for the manufacture of structural concrete (using ~14% cement) is estimated at 410 kg/m3 (~180 kg/tonne @ density of 2.3 g/cm3) (reduced to 290 kg/m3 with 30% fly ash replacement of cement).[3] The CO2 emission from the concrete production is directly proportional to the cement content used in the concrete mix; 900 kg of CO2 are emitted for the fabrication of every ton of cement, accounting for 88% of the emissions associated with the average concrete mix.[4][5] Cement manufacture contributes greenhouse gases both directly through the production of carbon dioxide when calcium carbonate is thermally decomposed, producing lime and carbon dioxide,[6] and also through the use of energy, particularly from the combustion of fossil fuels.
I already read that. I doesn't say anything about emitting CO2 while concrete is curing. This is all about the production process of Portland cement. This is a particular type of process which can be replaced with processes emitting less CO2. If you look up the chemical reactions involved when cement is curing you'll see there is no CO2 emitted.
I didn't say it was emitted in curing. 
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2916 on: January 14, 2019, 10:59:05 am »
But Doug did. You quoted that too.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2917 on: January 14, 2019, 04:57:39 pm »
But Doug did. You quoted that too.

Periodic videos has a video on concrete.  Appears I remembered it wrong.  Doesn’t CO2 react with concrete as it is curing (which goes on for many many years) and weakens the concrete?  From what I am reading it sounds like CO2 is what causes concrete to crumble and fall apart.

Yes I am the one who WRONGLY said CO2 was emitted as concrete cured.  My error, thank you for calling me on it.

 

Offline nctnico

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2918 on: January 14, 2019, 08:56:16 pm »
I highly depends on the type of concrete. The concrete dome over the Pantheon in Rome has been there for about 2000 years.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2919 on: January 14, 2019, 09:03:42 pm »
I highly depends on the type of concrete. The concrete dome over the Pantheon in Rome has been there for about 2000 years.
They say that after all that time the dome is still absorbing CO2, as the curing process is not complete.
 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2920 on: January 14, 2019, 10:34:26 pm »
I highly depends on the type of concrete. The concrete dome over the Pantheon in Rome has been there for about 2000 years.
They say that after all that time the dome is still absorbing CO2, as the curing process is not complete.

Concrete poured 2,000 years ago is still curing and becoming harder is my understanding.
 

Offline ahbushnell

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2921 on: January 18, 2019, 03:20:12 pm »

This is why I'm looking at getting a PHEV.  For in town I can do EV.  And traveling in the western US I don't have to go through the complications of EV travel.



I think it will get better.

 

Offline DougSpindler

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2922 on: January 18, 2019, 03:52:18 pm »
From what I understand just about all of the car companies are discontinuing PHEV.  VW discontinued a few years ago, and the Volt is EOL I think next year.  The BMW i3 is a joke as a PHEV.  The gas tank is less than 2 gallons/7.2L.

Not sure why, but GM/Chevy and several of the other car manufactures are all going with no-plugin hybrids.  Why?  If it's got a battery when not allow it to be charged by electricity inseads of just gasoline.





 

Offline ahbushnell

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2923 on: January 18, 2019, 04:04:42 pm »
From what I understand just about all of the car companies are discontinuing PHEV.  VW discontinued a few years ago, and the Volt is EOL I think next year.  The BMW i3 is a joke as a PHEV.  The gas tank is less than 2 gallons/7.2L.

Not sure why, but GM/Chevy and several of the other car manufactures are all going with no-plugin hybrids.  Why?  If it's got a battery when not allow it to be charged by electricity inseads of just gasoline.

I think I'm going to buy a  Outlander 2019 PHEV.  It will go places you can't get to because of charging infrastructure.  Plus I don't want to be standing around on a trip waiting for a charge when I can be driving. 

 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: When Will Electric Cars Become Mainstream?
« Reply #2924 on: January 18, 2019, 04:07:26 pm »
Before I offered an opinion on why the hybrids are being dropped I would want to understand how each vehicle type at the sales volumes predicted affects the CAFE ratings for the manufacturers.

 


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