[WTF] Coffee spil, repair (working) MacBook Pro 1.200 EUR ? (~ 1400 USD) ?

[cdev]

Why would you clear a code on an OBD2 diagnostic display on a car after something had been changed, possibly fixed?

Its like that. It tells the computer the condition that made it change behavior might have been resolved. Don't do it until you've cleaned out the coffee and dried it thoroughly and dont use tap water. Do you know what distilled water is? Use that. And go sparingly on it. Remove all power first. Especially the battery. If there is any visible damage to the battery you may want to get another battery. Don't use anything besides distilled water. Dry it well. Dry it for a day or two with warm air, not hot air, before re-applying power,

[Armadillo]

You might as well be clear with everything else this action also clear to OP or are you clear yourself?   

Why would you clear a code on an OBD2 diagnostic display on a car after something had been changed, possibly fixed?

[james_s]

How are you supposed to know the problem was fixed if you don't clear the code? Once a given fault code is stored, it will persist whether the problem remains or not. You can't tell if the fault still exists without clearing the code. It's like a circuit breaker, if a fault causes the breaker to trip, the only way to tell if the fault has been fully resolved is to reset the breaker and see if it trips again.

[Rasz]

As a mac user your friend should be accustomed to being regularly screwed.

>at first it kept working

I poured coffee into my computer, but it kept working, I guess its ok
oil was leaking from under my car, but it kept working, I guess its ok
fridge started smoking, but it kept working, I guess its ok
treat it as a tax on stupidity

> it still runs

no problem then 

>Total E 1.200,00 (incl 21 % VAT).  (New one is E 1.700,00).
>Isn't that a bit steep

thats like a weeks pay in NL, probably less to someone using Apple, sounds reasonable.

Now on a serious note a word of warning about Apple users, especially ones that run flooded computers for couple of weeks like nothing happened - If you try going the cheap route and something goes wrong its going to be all on you.

>You see some coffee here and there.

Thats great news if all you care about is cleaning, charging circuit is fired. Board might be corroded in half a dozen different places and fail later randomly even after fixing current problems.

[Armadillo]

Wonder what "Codes" did OP said?

Also you mean battery not detected and when battery is put in, the code is not cleared itself? [for a working set].

Also be clear about clearing codes and "RESET".

How are you supposed to know the problem was fixed if you don't clear the code? Once a given fault code is stored, it will persist whether the problem remains or not. You can't tell if the fault still exists without clearing the code. It's like a circuit breaker, if a fault causes the breaker to trip, the only way to tell if the fault has been fully resolved is to reset the breaker and see if it trips again.

[Armadillo]

@Rasz

Agree. OP should be aware that if he continues to power up the computer now, its like electrolysis in action and accelerate the corrosion with the oxidative rancidity supplying the O2 in the slimes of coating.

[Psi]

Friend of mine spilled some coffee over the table. That creeped inside his MacBook Pro.
At this point, it still runs, but from the wall power. Only on the battery it doesn't.

Have you search Louis's YT channel for his exact model/year of macbook.
For each model the fault from liquid damage is very similar if not the same 90% of the time. (Since the design means liquid will always find the same lowest point to get into the PCB).
There's a good chance Louis already has a video showing the exact problem and how to fix it.
Although i think he does a lot more MacBook's than MacBook Pros.

[CJay]

That's how virtually all repair works these days. Being a repair tech doesn't pay well enough to attract the really talented sorts, it makes more sense from a business perspective to swap out assemblies. Apple is not unique here, I don't think any computer repair shop or factory service center is going to do a component level repair on a motherboard.

Years ago I interviewed at a company that repaired HP's mother/system board returns, aced the interview and the practical test (first time I'd ever used a BGA rework 'robot', really interesting piece of gear) then received a job offer £5000 lower than the salary for the temporary job I was doing swapping boards for a HP warranty service provider, using the very same boards the interviewing company were repairing for HP.

Apple are not unique, there are very few (any?) who offer component level repair, it's far more efficient and easier to guarantee a board level swap.

[onesixright]

Thank you for for the replies.

Maybe it would be cool to make a YT video by someone with a microscope to see what now truly happens on the traces.  With respect to time, when coffee, water, etc. is been in contact with a PCB.

I’m very curious how much times (days, weeks, months?) passes before it starts ‘eating’ the traces and sms components and it becomes almost impossible to repair.




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[Rasz]

Thank you for for the replies.

Maybe it would be cool to make a YT video by someone with a microscope to see what now truly happens on the traces.  With respect to time, when coffee, water, etc. is been in contact with a PCB.

I’m very curious how much times (days, weeks, months?) passes before it starts ‘eating’ the traces and sms components and it becomes almost impossible to repair.

Jessa already did a video like, that, its seconds. Afair first blown components and eaten traces show up in under a minute.

[james_s]

Blown components can happen almost instantaneously if less that completely pure water gets into the right place. Years ago I repaired a hard drive for somebody after a drink got spilled on the computer. It blew one of the mosfets that drives the spindle motor, happened as soon as liquid drilled in.

[cdev]

If you've cleaned up all the visible coffee/sugar residue you should try this before you consider it to be permanently broken requiring any parts replacement. Also, if the battery still is not working I would borrow a battery from a friend and see if it works with a different one. It may just need a replacement battery.

DO THESE THREE EASY THINGS..

How to reset your Mac's NVRAM, PRAM, and SMC

https://www.macworld.com/article/2881177/macs/how-to-reset-your-macs-nvram-pram-and-smc.html

Also see

http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295

http://www.macworld.com/article/2018853/when-good-macs-go-bad-steps-to-take-when-your-mac-wont-start-up.html

[onesixright]

Thank you for for the replies.

Maybe it would be cool to make a YT video by someone with a microscope to see what now truly happens on the traces.  With respect to time, when coffee, water, etc. is been in contact with a PCB.

I’m very curious how much times (days, weeks, months?) passes before it starts ‘eating’ the traces and sms components and it becomes almost impossible to repair.

Jessa already did a video like, that, its seconds. Afair first blown components and eaten traces show up in under a minute.

Interesting. You happen to have a link or a title? Thanks!


Sent from my X using Tapatalk

[Rasz]

Jessa already did a video like that, its seconds. Afair first blown components and eaten traces show up in under a minute.

Interesting. You happen to have a link or a title? Thanks!

bad memory, It was Louis not Jessa

[KL27x]

He has actual business with employees.

Sure. I just bet a lot more gets done when he's there vs when he is not.

Every repair Louis does affects his bottom line. And it is something he enjoys doing and which his customers and his viewers appreciate.

For an employee, there is only so much of this that is a new learning experience. Then it's just as boring as flipping burgers. But instead of being paid for physically being present and performing a simple task, this task has dozens of steps and tiny parts and is irreducible to a simple algorithm. To do it, you have to use your mind. And to have your mind occupied much of the day with someone else's complex but ultimately repetitive and thankless task is sheer torture.

Much of the work and memory recall needed is also dependent on the individual workspace and how it is setup. Like a parrot grow up in Africa and knows what food grows where at what time of the year. But to the parrot this is useful information. To an employee, this makes much of the knowledge and memory space they have to devote to this job more or less useless for anything else. And everyone has their own individual preferences and thought process.  So the employees are guaranteed to eventually know how to do this better than the owner (at least think they do) and be under that constant stress and unhappiness of knowing better (or at least thinking they do) but having to do it the owner's way. With limited space and equipment, you can do it only way without total chaos ensuing, and there are probably 100 inconveniences and compromises every day. Many reasons why this type of work is often more economical to be contracted out to individuals and small business with a $$ for results approach rather than to try to pay employees to do it.

A business like this, the size of this, you are servicing dozens or different models and devices. Each gets broken down into dozens of parts and need dozens of unique screws and fasteners. And these things are each owned by some customer and have to go back together. There are parts everywhere. There are used/broken/donor boards everywhere. There are hundreds of reeled components and other stuff everywhere. And unless you take ownership of it all, it all looks more or less like junk. It is hard to get someone who doesn't own it to take ownership over your own particular brand of crazy in how you organize this mess, because there is no really one good way to do it.

[amyk]

Jessa already did a video like that, its seconds. Afair first blown components and eaten traces show up in under a minute.

Interesting. You happen to have a link or a title? Thanks!

bad memory, It was Louis not Jessa

I was almost expecting him to advertise a new service at the end: conformal coating.

[KL27x]

>Total E 1.200,00 (incl 21 % VAT).  (New one is E 1.700,00).
>Isn't that a bit steep

I imagine people pay this for the data and to avoid the time and labor of setting up a new computer.

My rule of thumb on anything that doesn't weigh over 100 lbs... If I am not happy to shell out the $$ for a replacement of any equipment that goes down, I wasn't happy to buy it in the first place. I don't buy the best of anything that I can afford. I buy what I can afford to replace.

It's coffee, not a defect. If Apple took the approach of attempting to authorize/endorse a cheaper repair, the company that did the repair will own the warranty on that. If one problem person out of 100 has a future problem, it doesn't matter if it's completely unrelated, even. To them, it was a faulty repair, and it needs to be fixed again, for free, of course. Even if you refuse, you spend time and energy spent dealing with the customer. And today, one or two unhappy people with the right Instagram followers will destroy your business.

If the steep cost deters you from repairing your computer, no one cares. It's that expensive because no one wants to repair your computer. It's not personal. You are probably perfectly reasonable. It's the 1:100 customer that ruins everything. Although in the US, specifically, it seems to be more like every other customer.

[Shock]

I show some extensive looking Mac corrosion that worked fine after a clean up in this thread here.

Just some insights, there is no difference between a Mac and anything else to repair. You may need a better iron and some magnification as it's modern electronics but the troubleshooting is all the same.

Electronics component repair is getting harder to sustain as a business because many people board swap (very simple) as a sideline to other services, there is a lot of people out there doing it. For Rossman doing component repair it's sustainable because he charges a super high hourly rate masked as a flat rate service. Like every other schmoo he has worked out if you repair something expensive enough, customers will pay hundreds of dollars and be none the wiser. His service is nothing special globally, there are several people in my area doing laptop component repairs they just don't specialize specifically in money Mac. You normally have to ask around a bit to find the proper repairers, just like proper mechanics etc.

[KL27x]

he has worked out if you repair something expensive enough, customers will pay hundreds of dollars and be none the wiser.

Except this isn't a ripoff. This is what is costs.

If you have a particular problem with your computer, and you find some info on how to repair that specific thing, you might gladly spend an hour taking it apart and carefully laying out all the parts and pieces. Then do the repair. Then spend another hour putting it back together. And then spend another half an hour taking it back apart because you forgot one connector. And when you're done, there might not even be any lumps or bumps where a wire accidentally got pinched between the housing, somewhere. You might even have no screws leftover. And it might work perfectly. Then you'll think how cheap it is and how much of a ripoff the certified repair center is. You think heck, if they do this for a living, it would all go so much faster and easier, and it would take only 30 minutes. Because they have all the proper tools and workstations and experience.

If you could run a business where you only repair one problem on one model of laptop, and the customers all line up to drop off their laptops with the one specific problem, then that might be true. And if this was the case, everyone and their uncle would be opening a competing business. Think Xbox heat gun repair.

If your 1700.00 laptop "still works" (just not with the battery), then use it with the cord. Or buy a new computer and transfer all your data and sell your "working computer" for what the market will bear. It might just not be worth fixing to you. Apple is evil in some ways what with intentional obsolescence and the whole bricking of phones with firmware update, but high repair cost and only doing board swaps is not evil. Every industry does this. It is the only way to do it on a large scale. The fact they honor certified third party repairs at all is a good thing.

Doing component level repair is not amenable to a large company for another reason. Trust. You might trust your local mechanic. I've had a good one, here or there. But a faceless corporation telling you, "sorry it wasn't the cheap problem I told you about. It is the problem that costs thousands," you are not going to be happy.

[CJay]

he has worked out if you repair something expensive enough, customers will pay hundreds of dollars and be none the wiser.

Except this isn't a ripoff. This is what is costs.

If you have a particular problem with your computer, and you find some info on how to repair that specific thing, you might gladly spend an hour taking it apart and carefully laying out all the parts and pieces. Then do the repair. Then spend another hour putting it back together. And then spend another half an hour taking it back apart because you forgot one connector. And when you're done, there might not even be any lumps or bumps where a wire accidentally got pinched between the housing, somewhere. You might even have no screws leftover. And it might work perfectly. Then you'll think how cheap it is and how much of a ripoff the certified repair center is. You think heck, if they do this for a living, it would all go so much faster and easier, and it would take only 30 minutes. Because they have all the proper tools and workstations and experience.

If you could run a business where you only repair one problem on one model of laptop, and the customers all line up to drop off their laptops with the one specific problem, then that might be true. And if this was the case, everyone and their uncle would be opening a competing business. Think Xbox heat gun repair.

If your 1700.00 laptop "still works" (just not with the battery), then use it with the cord. Or buy a new computer and transfer all your data and sell your "working computer" for what the market will bear. It might just not be worth fixing to you. Apple is evil in some ways what with intentional obsolescence and the whole bricking of phones with firmware update, but high repair cost and only doing board swaps is not evil. Every industry does this. It is the only way to do it on a large scale. The fact they honor certified third party repairs at all is a good thing.

Doing component level repair is not amenable to a large company for another reason. Trust. You might trust your local mechanic. I've had a good one, here or there. But a faceless corporation telling you, "sorry it wasn't the cheap problem I told you about. It is the problem that costs thousands," you are not going to be happy.

I totally agree with all the above, it's really easy to look at a repair bill and think it's a rip off, people think that because 'all you have to do' it should be cheap, the equipment to do component level repair properly is not cheap, premises, wages, taxes, insurance also come into play and $200 an hour or more is not expensive, I used to jokingly comment every time I drove past a computer repair shop about how long they would last, I was rarely wrong.

People seem to think that repairs should be free because equipment is cheap, because equipment is expensive, because 'but I haven't had it long', 'but it was only a little bit of vomit' (true story) and it has always been thus.

[hwj-d]

I'm not the repair type for laptops, but I've done it for people around me sometimes, but no macbooks. As a tip, Louis use some interesting pices of analyse software, that is FlexBV, a commercial expansion from the existing Open-Source 'OpenBoardView'. This expansion brings PDF cross referencing between BoardViews and Schematics. As I can see, it was developed by Paul Daniels
http://pldaniels.com/flexbv/

Paul is member 'Inflex' on eevblog. His YT Channel is
youtube.com/channel/UCG59vVRe_wP55tqqWLimnAQ

Rossman explains in
youtube.com/watch?v=jxZqmDljtz4

[Shock]

I'm just saying anyone who charges hundreds of dollars for any type of minor electronics repair aren't doing customers any favors no matter how they justify it (board swap or component repair). The service industry in general is swamped with people who are bullshit artists, they will say and do anything to get paid.

Came across one recently where a company refused to itemize labor on an invoice, it turned out it was several hundred for 30mins work for just a fan swap, not only that they pointed out the fan as part of another service. Nice profitable business.

[hwj-d]

There is another interesting YT-Channel, that brings down to practise to repair such things:
youtube.com/channel/UCooKQlg-HZ0PFAPc4Ymg3RA

[Armadillo]

Any indications to you guys, whatsoever?   

[bd139]

Just some experience in this area I'd like to add as well. I've done laptop repairs on the side for people for about 15 years now for ref. A long time before that I did prod line rework on milspec kit. Some thoughts:

1. Component level repair is not worth it at all. Not even slightly. It's expensive in time, research, tools. The success rate in the short term is not great. The success rate in the long term is not good. I would ONLY ever consider doing component level repair now if it was for data recovery and temporary and the hardware was disposed afterwards. The main problem you have to ask yourself is "does it actually really work afterwards or does it look like it does"? In fact one of the worst things I saw was water damage where someone had bodge soldered the memory bus on the machine. It booted into windows but blue screened once an hour. Didn't even run memtest86 once without errors. Straight in the trash. That's what you're risking. All it takes is takes is a enthusiastic user to run a defrag and all their shit is gone.

2. I refuse anything that isn't Apple, Lenovo, Dell or HP now because it's impossible finding out what crap the laptop is assembled from. Everything is made by the lowest bidder apart from the mid-high end business laptops. Anything that is consumer junk bought at retail goes straight in the trash unless it's basic upgrades or noddy stuff like new batteries, keyboard or screens.

3. As much as everyone shits on Apple, they have nearly the best repair outcome (only surpassed by Lenovo) becuase the hardware is pretty standard across the board, easy to get hold of, repairs are well documented and there's not a lot of stuff in their kit. It's really easy to to repair. I'm talking laptops here. iPhones are pretty easy to repair as well. I've done tens of them now. iPads are the only sticking point (pun intended). But the parts are going to cost you real money because there is a high demand for parts.

4. The second most expensive part of any repair is software failure. Reinstalling OS and getting people's shit back costs nearly as much as replacing the computer.

5. The primary expensive part of any repair is DOWNTIME. Not a lot of people realise this. If you have to lose your machine for two weeks for a repairer then that's two weeks lost income. If you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to own it.

Just as a note I charge £60 an hour for repairs I do, plus parts, plus incidentals, plus VAT. The last person who came to me had a Lenovo T450 with a smashed screen. The screen cost me £45, it took an hour to do it plus an hour of "fix some random stuff in windows". That was £198 inc VAT. You can get a  refurb T450 same spec on ebay for £239. Why bother? I mean I'm going to take the money if someone asks me to but why?!?!

Component level repair doesn't factor in this at all because even when it comes to "2015 macbook pro" territory, if you really need to kit then component level repair, software failure, downtime are orders of magnitude more expensive and the outcome from anything other than FRU replacement is iffy as hell.

The big problem I see is that Louis Rossman has made a lot of noise resulting in a bit of a repair personality cult so everyone looks at component level repair as worth it. For 98% of cases it isn't. For 1% of what is left over it's data recovery. For the last 1% it's personal interest.

Edit: just to add I have two Lenovo T440 units that are identical as my daily driver machines. They pay the bills. They are now both heavily modified. If one dies, it gets recyclable parts removed, goes on ebay and the other one comes out of the cupboard and I carry on. I then buy another refurb and apply the same modifications to it in my own time. Mods include FHD display, different touchpad, extended battery, removal of camera and mic and mSATA battery, replacement internal battery, memory upgrade. These are all FRU replacement steps and take about an hour to do a whole machine of mods. Downtime and software downtime are minimised here to a max span of 1 hour which is the optimisation point. Time = money