Author Topic: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]  (Read 26039 times)

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Offline Assafl

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2017, 04:28:32 pm »
I may publish the whole Kicad project(schematic, pcb, footprints etc), but first I would like to have it "ready" and probably have better names for all the nets and power rails etc.

I have tried to calibrate the unit and the common mode adjustment seems to be quite coarse. Maybe multiturn trimmer would be one improvement for this unit.

Wictor

It is meant to be a 4.5 - 5.5 digit calibrator. To get to real 6 digits will need at least better operational amplifiers. There is a tendency to be stuck in an endless loop calibrating this (hence their recommendation to not calibrate it unless absolutely necessary). What I found works well is when you back and forth two pots (e.g. zero and zero balance or range and range balance) to calibrate the pot 3/4 way to desired outcome and then do the other pot. It tends to close in faster on the calibration.

Short term, however, it does seem able to do six digits (I was able to use it to prove my 34401A's reference was noisy using the Datel).

I do have some suggestions for better clarity and naming of the nodes (I didn't want to be pushy - but since you said you are interested in doing this anyway....):

1. Power supplies: There are two 33v power supplies in the Datel. You mark 1 as +V and -V. The second is TP4 and -V2 (+V2 you call the name of the rectified voltage, inconsistent with +V1).
      a. So the suggestion is to call the Emitter of Q12 "+V2".
      b. V1 and V2 are identical (except 1-2 resistor values & the overcurrent detector formed around Q7) - so draw V1 and V2 supplies with identical layout in the schematic - it is easier to read.

2. TP1_10V - I'd call this 10V_ref or Ref_10V or something like that. TP1 is just one thing that is attached to the 10V_ref and is inconsistent.

3. The feedback around U1 (Comprised of inverting voltage TP1_10V through divider network of R32 and R33-R37 & R39 and noninverting voltage DIV_G through R1) is unclear. 3k01 R_3011 is actually misleading where it is as it is a bias resistor for the LM399... 

4. DIV_E-DIV_H - I'd draw the matrix switch. It flips the LM399's zener between COM and DIV_G. (That in turn - via Q3 and Q4 - slide V2 supply to the opposite polarity - all D1-D2-D3 seem to do is ensure the diode is always properly biased). Perhaps Q3 and Q4 deserve a nice area near the 10V buffer.

5. AFAIK - DIV_A is not related to DIV_B DIV_C and DIV_D. It is the same as COM and should be labeled COM. The connection between Div_A and COM happens at the big pad under the transformer.

6. DIV_B C and D should be drawn as a potentiometer so people understand the functionality. Here is how it works:
Between Div_C and Div_D - 8.139K resistor (fixed)
Between Div_B and Div_C - Variable. At 0V - open (infinity). At 10V - 8.139k resistor. At 1mV 89.7k resistor.

Hope this isn't confusing...

-al

 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 04:40:41 pm by Assafl »
 

Offline Assafl

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2017, 04:33:38 pm »
More pictures.



Each BCD wheel has 4 resistors and a decade resistor. Two large resistors are the reference 8.139kOhm (R1) resistor and the identical 10V range resistor (R2).

Since the reference 10V is of opposite polarity, at -10V reference the output would have to be 10V for Div_C to be at COM level.

All resistors (except the reference resistor and the three decade resistors at the bottom) tie to X (Div_B) or Y (Div_A) as per the following truth table:

     1 2 4 8
0   Y Y Y Y
1   X Y Y Y
2   Y X Y Y
3   X X Y Y
...
9   X Y Y X

Most significant decade is just connects R2 in series to Div_A or to Div_B.

     1 2 3 4
0   Y .......
1   X .......

 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 04:40:16 pm by Assafl »
 

Offline wictor

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2017, 04:52:49 pm »
Thanks Assafl! I'm happy that you have time to clarify things. I'll do some modifications based on your comments, but right now I don't know when... I'm travelling and busy for some time in the future.
 

Offline Assafl

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2017, 05:59:19 pm »
No hurry. At this point 99% is done and the rest is so that it takes less time for others to decipher (and for us in a few years when we inevitably need it).

Or you can send me the diagram and I'll try to learn KiCad.
 

Offline worsthorse

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2019, 01:13:53 am »
Wictor and Assafl... nice work on your respective 8500s.  I just picked one up and I am wondering if you ever got any further on the documentation project? In any case, all the info here will help a lot with my repair project, thanks for putting it all up here.
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Offline HighVoltageTopic starter

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #80 on: November 05, 2019, 05:10:11 pm »
I have just my two  DVC8500 and I was surprised how stable it stayed in calibration since the repair.

@worsthorse
What are the symptoms of your faulty DVC8500?
 
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Offline rtekal

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #81 on: November 19, 2019, 06:04:37 am »
Hi,

Thank you all for the detailed analysis of the DVC 8500. I have a issue with the calibrator output going out of spec beyond +-3 Volts, but is in spec at +-19 Volt. The zero and full scale adjustments are in spec. I noticed that output deviates on the negative side after 9 volts and goes positive gradually till 18 volts. The max deviation is around 2.5 mV.

I suspect the values of the decade resistors have deviated.  Even at zero output setting, the resistors show a parallel circuit values. Has anyone got the values of the decade resistor mounted along the thumb wheel switches? They don't seem to carry any value markings.
 

Offline HighVoltageTopic starter

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #82 on: November 19, 2019, 10:20:20 am »
Have you cleaned your contacts ?
I don't think the values of the resistors will deviate outside of allowed tolerances over the years.
But small dirt and corrosion on the contacts will have a significant influence.

Best to clean the contacts in such a way as I have shown early in this thread.
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Offline worsthorse

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #83 on: November 19, 2019, 04:41:00 pm »
I have just my two  DVC8500 and I was surprised how stable it stayed in calibration since the repair.

@worsthorse
What are the symptoms of your faulty DVC8500?

Sorry... just saw this. Still awaiting arrival of my 8500. The first one was "lost in warehouse" and never showed up. I just found, and bought, another. Should be here next week. So no known faults. Just want to be able to calibrate and repair it if/when needed. The only documentation I've surfaced on the interwebs is the Calibrators Inc doc with a general description and basic calibration procedure, so I am following this thread with interest.
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Offline mwhamster

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #84 on: June 07, 2020, 02:10:26 am »
The power supply filters are rated at 450 uF, 63 volts.  I measured the power rails and they are running at 63 and 50 volts.  It is bad practice to run components at or near their rated voltage.  I replaced mine with 100 volt units.  Also check for loose connections on the slip-on jumpers, especially near the power switch.
 

Offline Ciffino

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #85 on: June 26, 2020, 01:13:49 pm »
Hi everyone!
I'm Umberto, an Italian new user of this blog.

I want to thanks all of you for informations and electrical diagram I found here. I have one unit of this simple calibrator, and just few days ago it died without a reasonable effort. I suppose problem in a tantalum, but I want to understand how it works before try to repair. The electronic design of the device is not as I thought, I found it "a little" atypical. To help me understand how it works, I will probably redesign Wictor's great and wonderful work to make it more linear and easily intelligible.

see you soon, sincerely,
Umberto
 

Offline HighVoltageTopic starter

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #86 on: June 26, 2020, 01:26:41 pm »
Hello Umberto, welcome to the forum.

Yes, the design of this little unit is very different from normal electronic design.
I hope you can repair your unit well.

Always look for dirt in the switches, as I have shown in this thread.
Sometimes this dirt prevents any output at all.

 
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Offline Ciffino

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #87 on: June 26, 2020, 04:15:24 pm »
I'm analyzing the electronic design ......I really cannot understand if the designer was a genius or a madman...... but probably the first, if is me who are too traditional in my projects..... |O

in a few time I will post schematic in a different aspect. Now i have to disassemble switches.... Work in progress
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 04:17:35 pm by Ciffino »
 

Offline Ciffino

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2020, 10:38:45 am »
Update:

i found zener D6 broken. Now I have to understand why it failed ... I replaced it but it heats up a lot, it seems to me that there are other problems ...

mumble.... mumble.....
 

Offline Caliaxy

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #89 on: February 26, 2021, 03:12:03 pm »
I got one in working condition - quite impressed! I'm not sure what I am more proud of - my new (to me) voltage calibrator or my meters.  :)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 04:12:08 pm by Caliaxy »
 

Offline HighVoltageTopic starter

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2021, 10:00:57 am »
Hello Caliaxy
Welcome to the DVC 8500 club

Did you have to clean the switches or are they working perfectly.

I bought a second one of these little references and it had corroded / dirty switches
as well as my first one and I had to go through the cleaning procedure again.
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Offline Caliaxy

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #91 on: February 27, 2021, 04:11:44 pm »
Thank you!

The switches seem to work fine. The transitions are "noisier" (show higher over/under-shoots) when switching between some positions than others - like  5<->6 and 6<->7 in the attached screenshot (the steps are 1 mV). I guess this is totally expected, not necessarily a sign of the switch getting dirty and, even if so, really not an issue as long as the output is stable once switched to the desired value.

It looks like mine came from somebody who actually used it and took good care of it. I was expecting to have to do some cleaning, but I don't think I'll bother (if it's not broken...).

I was reluctant to buy such an old voltage reference, but reading your posts here encouraged me to do it. I am happy I did it.
 

Offline eDan

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #92 on: March 23, 2024, 02:45:30 pm »
I am curious if anyone is still involved with these DVC-8500?
I am looking for a good, (manufacture's) schematic if anyone has managed to find one.
I have done a bit of reverse engineering in order to come up with a replacement method for the
damn switches. The solution includes the possibility of computer control of the voltage(s).
It is perhaps a fools errand, but if there are enough interested fools around I will continue the work.
cheers Dan
 

Offline HighVoltageTopic starter

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Re: DATEL Voltage Calibrator DVC 8500, Repair [SUCCESS]
« Reply #93 on: March 24, 2024, 02:18:46 pm »
I am curious if anyone is still involved with these DVC-8500?
I am looking for a good, (manufacture's) schematic if anyone has managed to find one.

Only the one by Wictor
See Reply #63

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