Author Topic: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind  (Read 12043 times)

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Offline daryl_ukTopic starter

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De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« on: January 17, 2018, 11:07:57 pm »
Hello Everyone,


I am having a nightmare  |O with trying to remove solder from small through holes on an oldish (cica 1990) PCB.  I am trying to replace some knackered caps, the pads are tiny.

I managed to get some caps out but there was solder left behind - I am using a standard soldering iron, solder wick and flux (maybe I need a temp control one?).
I have tried adding fresh solder to the joint; and then the solder wick again but always there's a bit left behind  |O  |O  |O  |O  |O  |O  |O

Its getting to the point now where I am starting to damage the board  :palm:



https://www.eagle-eyes.me/photos/electronics/DSC_0005_015_m_s.png
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 11:12:19 pm by daryl_uk »
 

Offline keymaster

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 11:31:04 pm »
you need a desoldering pump . even a cheap one will do the job.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 11:36:48 pm by keymaster »
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 11:32:47 pm »
Sometimes adding more solder, then use a good wick will clean them up.   I use Chemtronics wicks exclusively and suspect there must be other good ones out there, but why change.

Second, heat the hole and flick it to remove solder.

Third, get a small piece of music wire smaller than the hole.   Heat the hole and push the music wire through.  That will usually clear the hole.  It is quite rare that I reach this step.

 
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Offline james_s

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 11:38:24 pm »
Wick is useless for a board like that with loads of thermal mass. You need a real desoldering tool, Hakko 808 or similar device with temperature control and a vacuum pump. I usually add a bit of fresh solder to get things going. In a pinch you can heat the pads one at a time and wiggle the old cap out but be careful not to rip out the through-hole plating.
 

Offline helius

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 11:42:16 pm »
You won't get the solder to flow out of the hole without either A) wetting your braid with liquid flux; or B) using a solder sucker. You can use either of these approaches. Vacuum desoldering tools will also work but are very expensive compared to the aboveā€”a bottle of liquid flux is $7.50 and a high-end solder sucker can be had for as low as $6.
 

Offline Safar

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2018, 11:46:40 pm »
Just try to use toothpicks after melt solder. With flux of course.
Syringe needle (stainless steel) can help also
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 11:50:27 pm by Safar »
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2018, 12:19:26 am »
Uh oh, I've been through this before...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Mini-Micro-Hand-Drill-with-Bits-for-Craft-Modeling-Making-Hole-Jewelry/263281896204?hash=item3d4cd2eb0c:g:bF4AAOSwjyhZ8QY5

This works perfectly if you use a minimum of care and common sense. You simply turn the drill bit and let it do the pulling, press as little as possible, and stay true (normal to the PCB).

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Offline The Soulman

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2018, 12:32:13 am »
Assuming you're going to place a new part, warm up the pad until the solder liquefies (adding some new solder usually helps) and poke the leg of the the new part thru,
typically it solidifies after poking thru about a cm because of the cold leg of the new part.
Simply reapply heat and push the part down, when all the way down cut the leg to length and re-solder with some fresh solder.

As always when soldering, never heat up to long and never to short and don't apply mechanical force to components and/or pads.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2018, 12:42:10 am »
As you've noticed, the more times you apply heat the more the pad will lift.  Beyond 3 times is usually the danger zone.

If you have no other equipment, then, yes, adding fresh solder, keeping the iron there for a second or two, then with the iron tip slightly in the hole, lift the pcb up, and tap it on a hard surface.  It isn't ideal but it often lets the liquid solder fly out leaving a relatively clean hole.  One has to ensure the solder is molten through the hole, a temperature controlled iron really does help a lot. (preferably >40W).

Option 2 is a desoldering pump.  For stubborn holes, I've found it best to have the PCB at a 90 degree angle - with an edge facing you.  Place the pump over the hole on one side, then use the iron on the otherside.  It can get tricky without a clamp, but it can be done.

Desoldering braid is great but extra flux on it almost always helps.  In fact, put some on the offending pad/hole.  The wick will... well, wick, that up and solder will flow with it.

As insurance, if you have time,  look at the traces that go to that pad, and get some wire handy, just incase you pull the PTH out.

 

Offline phil from seattle

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2018, 01:02:09 am »
a cheap solder pump will usually do the trick. You can buy powered vacuums or drills or what ever but I've found a cheap little solder sucker works great.  It's best if you can get access to both sides of the PCB. Soldering iron on one side, cocked sucker (no jokes please!) on the other, let it heat for about 2 seconds and then hit the release. Whoosh! Problem solved. This one is from adafruit.


https://www.adafruit.com/product/148
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 01:03:55 am by phil from seattle »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2018, 01:04:39 am »
I never had any luck at all with those solder suckers but maybe I just never used one right. For years I got by with a rubber bulb desoldering iron but once I got a good vacuum desoldering gun it was like night and day, I could never imagine going back.
 

Offline phil from seattle

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2018, 01:39:43 am »
Well, yeah. A powered one will work a lot better.  But those little spring powered suckers work pretty well and are very cheap.  If I was doing a lot of desoldering of through hole components, I'd definitely have a powered one. But I mostly do SMDs. So I use a hot air rework station to get the parts off and braid works great for cleaning the pads.
 

Offline PaulAm

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 02:06:03 am »
Some guy on ebay is selling Edsyn DS017 solder suckers, 2 for $12 shipped.  They're used, but the two I got were in unused condition and just needed regreasing.  Search for Solda Pullt and it will show up.

I have a Metcal desoldering gun, but once in a while the solder sucker is useful.   A good vacuum tool will make that job trivial instead of a trial.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2018, 02:08:43 am »
If I'd known how great a vacuum desoldering tool was I'd have bought one years earlier. It turns desoldering a 40 pin DIP from a double sided PCB from a dreaded task I'll try when I'm almost certain the IC is bad to something I can do in a few minutes almost on a whim to test something.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2018, 10:29:55 am »
a cheap solder pump will usually do the trick. You can buy powered vacuums or drills or what ever but I've found a cheap little solder sucker works great.  It's best if you can get access to both sides of the PCB. Soldering iron on one side, cocked sucker (no jokes please!) on the other, let it heat for about 2 seconds and then hit the release. Whoosh! Problem solved. This one is from adafruit.


https://www.adafruit.com/product/148
I can vouch for one of these^^  :-+

Mines had a beating for at least 20 years, fallen to bits a couple of times and needed to be stripped and cleaned every once in a while too. Still on original O-ring.
It's got a little dish in one side of the nozzle now that is where I always have the iron and that dish helps make any gap for the suction to escape somewhat smaller.
Even migrating to SMD I've not seen any need to replace it with anything smaller however anything smaller than 0805 disappears up the spout.

For the OP, rework, get 2 things, a sucker or desoldering iron and some low temp solder to blend in on stubborn joints and lower the heat needed.
But that presumes you have a reasonable iron, something it appears you don't.
If you get one, get a hot air station too and when you get really stuck with a heat robbing joint you can add some hot air into the mix too.
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Offline Bashstreet

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2018, 11:08:15 am »
a cheap solder pump will usually do the trick. You can buy powered vacuums or drills or what ever but I've found a cheap little solder sucker works great.  It's best if you can get access to both sides of the PCB. Soldering iron on one side, cocked sucker (no jokes please!) on the other, let it heat for about 2 seconds and then hit the release. Whoosh! Problem solved. This one is from adafruit.


https://www.adafruit.com/product/148
I can vouch for one of these^^  :-+

Mines had a beating for at least 20 years, fallen to bits a couple of times and needed to be stripped and cleaned every once in a while too. Still on original O-ring.
It's got a little dish in one side of the nozzle now that is where I always have the iron and that dish helps make any gap for the suction to escape somewhat smaller.
Even migrating to SMD I've not seen any need to replace it with anything smaller however anything smaller than 0805 disappears up the spout.

For the OP, rework, get 2 things, a sucker or desoldering iron and some low temp solder to blend in on stubborn joints and lower the heat needed.
But that presumes you have a reasonable iron, something it appears you don't.
If you get one, get a hot air station too and when you get really stuck with a heat robbing joint you can add some hot air into the mix too.

Well yes they "kind of work" takes quite bit of trial and error to get it right tho.
If what he is doing is just cap replacement he can just heat up the solder to poke the leg in what is easy enough.
Really a solder vacuum station is way to go.. I get one when i can afford till that i have to get by suckers and all sorts.. Removing 40 pin chips.. what a joy..

If you have good tips how to use a sucker please share i try follow.

"Hoping one day Santa brings every electronics repairman (and woman) a solder sucker stations at Xmas"

« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 11:10:14 am by Bashstreet »
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2018, 11:35:53 am »
Cheap solder suckers with the spring in the chamber can be much improved by adding a wiper to keep as much solder dust as possible away from the piston seal(s).   The difference is incredible - you can reduce the cleaning interval by anything up to an order of magnitude and still get a better seal than it has with the normal cleaning interval.   To test how good the seal is, simply moisten your fingertip and hold it tightly over the tip while triggering the solder sucker - the plunger should move gradually, taking several seconds for its full travel.

To make the wiper, cut several disks of waxed paper (saturate copier paper with paraffin wax on a flat hot surface and wipe off excess before it cools) that are just a fraction larger than the barrel bore so they cup slightly and scrub the solder dust off the bore as you re-cock the piston.  Use a hole punch to make the center hole for the spike that clears the nozzle and fit them between the spring and the piston.  Its best to punch the center hole first through the rough cut disks then trim them to size so that their outer edge is concentric with the center hole.

You will find that the disk next to the spring wears the most and when it gets too tatty it can be discarded exposing the next one in the stack, but there should always be at least three left.   When you clean the chamber, you should clean the O rings or cup seal on the piston with an old toothbrush if there is any buildup of solder dust, and occasionally apply a drop of light silicone oil (copier fuser oil is ideal) to keep the seal(s) and bore lubricated.

You can also improve the nozzle - a short length of fairly thin walled silicone rubber tubing pushed over the tip will let it seal to the board: Clamp the board vertically and heat the hole to clear from the side with the most copper, using a large hoof bit, with a little flux and fresh solder, sucking from the other side with the sucker normal to the board so it gets a good seal and all the suction is applied to the hole. 

N.B. it wont be anti-static, but nor is the normal white Teflon nozzle.  If working with highly ESD sensitive devices, buy a black carbon loaded static dissipative nozzle and *DON'T* add silicone tubing.

Another useful tool is a mounted steel needle fractionally thicker than the component lead.   It can be inserted into a hole from the side with the least copper while heating the other side to clear the hole.  After removing the iron keep rocking the needle fractionally in the hole as the solder cools to maintain enough clearance for easy withdrawal of the needle.  If the resulting hole isn't clean enough, it can often be improved with a drop of flux and reheating next to but not covering the hole.

 If you don't have a heat resistant miniature pin vice handy, you can make a mounted needle starting with a sewing needle.  Use a thin wooden dowel for the handle, insert and remove the needle in the end to make a hole, then ligtly sand the eye end of the needle to roughen it, apply a drop of superglue to it and force it into the dowel for 1/3 of the needle length.  The needle needs to be bright polished steel, not gold or brass plated, and should be kept lightly oiled or waxed so solder doesn't wet it.

If your iron cant supply enough heat to keep the solder molten all the way through the hole, with the biggest hoof bit you can get for it,  you need a higher wattage iron.  Temperature controlled is preferable - at least 50W, but with practice you can do a good job even with something as crude as a 100W Weller soldering gun - get the joint melted and sucked quickly before the high bit temperature has time to significantly cook the board.

When desoldering DIL package ICs in plated through hole boards, after sucking as much solder as possible from the hole, flex the pin slightly with a fine jewellers screwdriver or other blunt ended probe to hold it away from the wall of the hole so it doesn't stick as it cools.  You may need to add a drop of flux and alternately reheat the pad and the pin while flexing it to clear any solder whiskers to get the pin free in its hole.   If there is much solder on the shoulder of the pin you may have to use flux and braid from the top side after sucking the hole. The amount of care taken freeing each pin direct contributes to the odds of you avoiding signifiicant board damage.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 11:43:22 am by Ian.M »
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2018, 12:54:34 pm »
I have good wick and a desoldering pump.  That said, I have had solder that couldn't be removed with either.  I use a dental pick that I heat up with the soldering iron and gently push through the hole.  Easy, peasy to use braid for cleanup.
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Offline Rasz

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2018, 01:27:49 pm »
as Safar and Ian.M already said - stainless hypodermic needle, or just heat via up, lube the hole with flux and fresh solder and shove new components leg in there

mechanical solder suckers are junk, but most people learn that only after using good desoldering gun ;-)
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Offline ArdWar

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 01:47:50 pm »
Just be careful when using those solder suckers, especially on pads that had been subjected to too much heat/heated multiple times where the copper binder maybe got weakened. They'll suck the entire pad and traces.

For conditions like this, I'll just use some unused component wires (usually resistors as they're the thinnest one) to poke thru the hole. Usually the solder will stick to the wire.
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2018, 01:48:34 pm »
Wow, all the joy here, when the matter is heating up. LOL....
 

Offline tablatronix

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2018, 02:17:39 pm »
Buy a $50 hot air station, much cheaper than a de-soldering station, and you can just blow the shit out.
 

Offline kelchm

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2018, 02:20:47 pm »
A solder sucker was one of the best electronics related purchases I've ever made. I don't think I've damaged a single board since getting it.

I'm using the Engineer SS-02. This is more expensive than the cheap ones, but it's very well built and worth the extra money in my opinion.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 02:22:24 pm by kelchm »
 
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Offline Fludo

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2018, 03:32:54 pm »
If you heat the hole up and melt the solder, quickly tapping it on your workbench will launch most of the solder out without any tools.
 

Offline sreeb

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Re: De-soldering Advice - Loosing My Mind
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2018, 06:42:23 pm »
For really challenging cases, I have used compressed air.  Heat it up and blow it out.

Think about where the solder is going to go....
 


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