Help sourcing PSU for Philips TV

[qc1998]

First, let me apologize for asking for help on my very first post...
I have been following the EEVBlog for many years, and I occasionally read the forums.
I guess it's just that I am not the social type. I almost never post anything on the Internet.
Hell, I don't even have a FaceBook account...

Now to business:

I own an almost 8 years old Philips LCD TV.
The TV still works, but a few month ago it started emitting strange sharp clicking sounds, just after being powered on.
At the beginning, those clicking sounds used to stop after a couple of minutes.
Over the last month, the clicking sounds began lasting longer and longer.
It now takes about 10 minutes for them to stop.

I traced the problem to a failing LCD backlight transformer on the main PSU board.
The clicking sound seems to be high voltage discharge withing the transformer itself.
There are no real external evidence of failure on the part itself, except for a small crack in the epoxy coating, but I am pretty sure that it is the transformer that failed.
(There are no signs of arcing on the board, and I already replaced all the HV capacitors in the CCFL circuit. There are no other parts on the HV side.)

Now, the problem is that I cannot find this PSU board or the transformer for sale anywhere.
I am not a repair professional (I design Embedded stuff), so I am not sure where to go for TV parts. (I mean parts that DigiKey, Mouser, RS etc' don't carry)
I've looked online, but no one seems to have this PSU in stock anymore, except a few websites in eastern Europe, but those are either not in English, or won't ship internationally.
I also contacted the official Philips repair service here in Israel, but they claim that they do not have this part, and also that they won't sell me a PSU board anyway, unless I send the TV to them for (an overpriced) repair...

Anyway, I am sure this forum has a few TV repair pros.
If there is anyone who knows where I can get this PSU (or just the transformer), I would like to know.
Also, if you come across a similar PSU, or one that has this transformer, I would gladly buy it from you.
Any help would be appreciated.


I know that the TV is 8 years old, and I should probably just replace it, but it seems so stupid to throw it in a landfill just because of a single failed part, that would take me 10 minutes to replace...
This set was a rather high-end model at the time, and it's picture is still respectable even by today's standards, so I see no real value 'upgrading'.
Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer to try and make it work for a few more years, if possible.

Thanks.


Technical Details:

TV model: Philips 47PFL8404H/12
PSU: DPS-298CP-2 (P/N 2722 171 00701, made by DELTA)
Transformer Marking: MP-130B (02) / IH-DP8049

[RGB255_0_0]

Found one that only ships from Germany within the EU.

Exactly the same issue posted http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35814

[qc1998]

RGB255_0_0,
Thanks for looking into this.

The problem does sound similar to the one discussed on badcaps.net, but that thread offers no relevant solution.
Original poster (Hextinct) replaced the whole PSU, which I cannot source.
Another person (mejohn) stated that after replacing the HV caps, the problem was "kinda fixed".
As I said in my original post, I already replaced all the caps on the HV side, and the problem still exists.

About that PSU you found in Germany, do you have a link?
I do not live in the EU, but maybe I would be able to convince them to ship it to Israel...

[Kjelt]

. already known with poster from first post, misread. 

[RGB255_0_0]

RGB255_0_0,
Thanks for looking into this.

The problem does sound similar to the one discussed on badcaps.net, but that thread offers no relevant solution.
Original poster (Hextinct) replaced the whole PSU, which I cannot source.
Another person (mejohn) stated that after replacing the HV caps, the problem was "kinda fixed".
As I said in my original post, I already replaced all the caps on the HV side, and the problem still exists.

About that PSU you found in Germany, do you have a link?
I do not live in the EU, but maybe I would be able to convince them to ship it to Israel...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reparatur-DPS-298CP-2A-Netzteil-fur-TV-Philips-47PFL7404-47PFL8404-47PFL5604-/252118582080?hash=item3ab3704340:g:dRwAAOSwFqJWtbt3

You could always ask them.

[qc1998]

RGB255_0_0,

I don't speak German, but from what I can understand using Google Translate, they only offer a repair service. Not a PSU board.
(You send them the PSU, and they attempt to repair it)

I might try such a service as a last resort, but as the TV is still functional, I do not really want to take the PSU board out of it and send it to Europe.
It would probably be a month or more before I get it back, unless I send it using UPS/DHL, which would cost more than this TV is worth...
(All shipping methods other than regular post are ridiculously expensive over here, and customs charge you additional high fees)

For now, I sent the seller a message asking if they would sell me just a backlight transformer.
Who knows, maybe they would...

[RGB255_0_0]

Sorry, not a German speaker either. Try asking http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philips-47PFL7404H-12-Power-Supply-Board-PSU-DPS-298CP-2-2722-171-00701-Warranty-/331814939388?hash=item4d41b62afc:g:zmkAAOSwzvlW-B6~

[qc1998]

I tried asking this seller about international shipping, but this seller apparently won't respond to messages.
When I try to 'Contact Seller' on eBay, I just get this 'helpful' message:
"We're sorry we couldn't find an answer for you. Unfortunately, this seller is unable to respond to your question. We suggest reviewing the item again to see if your answer is in the seller's listing."


Not my day, I guess... 

[fluxcapacitor]

its always worth checking for tv psu repair kits to find common problems. http://www.ebay.it/itm/Kit-Reparation-DPS-298-CP-2A-DPS-298-CP-4A-2-Diodes-SB260-SR260-3300-F-10V/252318745483

[BMack]

I might have one at work(transformer), I'll save the pics and check our inventory and get back to you. Shipping might kill the deal though

[qc1998]

I might have one at work(transformer), I'll save the pics and check our inventory and get back to you. Shipping might kill the deal though

Thanks!
Let me know if you have the transformer, and if you do, what is the price for it.

About shipping, you are located in the US, right?
I know that US post is relatively expensive, but I had friends send me stuff from the US before.

I checked USPS website, and sending a 'Priority Mail International® Small Flat Rate Box' to Israel is 33$.
(Package is 8-5/8" x 5-3/8" x 1-5/8", maximum weight is 4 pounds. Enough for a transformer.)
See: https://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?country=10211&m=13&dpb=0&mdt=2016/04/22%2013:00&mt=13&dok=XX&dvi=15

So, if the transformer itself is not too expensive, it might still be worthwhile for me to pay for shipping.

[madires]

If you can't get a spare one you could buy a generic CCFL inverter via ebay, disable the original one and power the CCFLs with the generic inverter.

[qc1998]

If you can't get a spare one you could buy a generic CCFL inverter via ebay, disable the original one and power the CCFLs with the generic inverter.

Yeah, I've though about it.
I know those exist, but after looking around a bit, I doubt I can find one that fits this panel.

Most LCD panels I've seen have several individual CCFL lamps, connected to several drivers.
(On this size LCD, I've seen anything between 4 and 8 drivers...)
This weird Philips TV, on the other hand, has only a single inverter / driver, with only 2 terminals.
(See photos in my original post)

As I assume a 47" panel must have more than one lamp, I suspect it has all the CCFL lamps connected in series.
Another hint to this is that all the capacitors on the HV side are rated 6KV.
On most drivers I've seen, the HV caps are 3KV at most.
(I stand to be corrected on this speculation. I mostly design low voltage stuff, and have no experience with CCFLs... )

I have yet to see a single 'generic' CCFL backlight driver board that can supply over 200W on it's own, and drive a 47" panel with just one lamp connection.
(They mostly have 2-4 individual lamp connections, and for this screen size I think you are supposed to use more than one driver board)


Feel free to correct me on this though.

[BMack]

I might have one at work(transformer), I'll save the pics and check our inventory and get back to you. Shipping might kill the deal though

Thanks!
Let me know if you have the transformer, and if you do, what is the price for it.

About shipping, you are located in the US, right?
I know that US post is relatively expensive, but I had friends send me stuff from the US before.

I checked USPS website, and sending a 'Priority Mail International® Small Flat Rate Box' to Israel is 33$.
(Package is 8-5/8" x 5-3/8" x 1-5/8", maximum weight is 4 pounds. Enough for a transformer.)
See: https://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?country=10211&m=13&dpb=0&mdt=2016/04/22%2013:00&mt=13&dok=XX&dvi=15

So, if the transformer itself is not too expensive, it might still be worthwhile for me to pay for shipping.

None in stock, the one I had is just a little different. I'll have to check used boards if one might have it. Looking less likely but for a pull I'd give it to you for just shipping. Sorry, I really thought that one we had would work.

[Rasz]

http://allegro.pl/dps-298cp-a-i6105389553.html = ~$33
google translate should be enough


fluxcapacitor made a very good point, look at the "repair kit" for this psu and replace parts from that kit
C709/731 area looks pretty toasty, and what do you know, same repair kit guy sells them specifically for this psu
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/33pF-x-6000V-33J-6KV-Hochspannung-Keramik-Scheiben-Kondensator-fur-DPS-298CP-/252211234918
of course price has a 'I know whats broken' tax attached
they are $1 http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?FS=TRUE&N=254340+4294646469+4267184481+1323043

btw those caps are right next to transformer, and caps are known for piezoelectric effect, especially roasted tantalum ones

but assuming its popping because of isolation breakdown uh no, that would shut backlight off, you didnt mention it, but badcaps had a link to YT clip and backlight stays on = not transformer


those are actually two separate transformers, try swapping lamps around, or even running with only one plugged (no idea if there is a open circuit detection/safety cutoff)

[Kleinstein]

I had not perfectly working Phillips TV with supply problems too - I think I managed to fix the PSU problem (small output cap for standby power - so should have changed that in time), but something on the main part got damaged too.

The funny part of that supply was it used the CCFL part also for doing the PFC. At least the backlight and main supply part where in series. So there may not be an option to run it with a separate driver for the backlight.

I would also question if the defect is really the transformer. Usually transformers don't break down very often.

[qc1998]

Look guys, I really appreciate you trying to help, but I want to ask you to:

1. Please read what I wrote in my original post.

People keep recommending that I replace the HV capacitors, which I said I already did.
(The photos are BEFORE I did it, and yes, before you ask, the capacitors I used were new, ordered from RS.)

People also keep suggesting fixes / repair kits for the LOW voltage side of the PSU.
My problem is definitely on the HIGH voltage side.
On the high voltage side, there are just a few capacitors, and the transformer secondary.

2. Please give me SOME credit. I know I am not a TV repair professional, but I have been designing electronics for a living for over a decade...

I know that a transformer fault is rare. Hell, if this problem was common, I would have fixed it by now... 
There is a crack in the transformer encapsulation, and the sounds are CLEARLY coming from the transformer!
(I used a rolled-up paper tube to pinpoint the sound source)
There is a slim chance that I might be wrong, but I doubt it.


Also, one more thing I like to clarify about the HV circuit in this set:
There are only 2 HV connectors. Each connector has 3 pins, but those pins are SHORTED together.
(Think about it, there is not enough clearance between these 0.1" pitch pins for any high voltage...)


Thank you.

[Rasz]

sorry

good news there are plenty of transformers you can fit there, bad news they are all mostly available second hand and usually listed around  30 $/euro
80GL32T-38-TK TMS95304CT https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://monitor.espec.ws/section48/topic220668.html&prev=search
080GL52T929 TMS94876CT
maybe even 80GL52T931YS1 http://www.servicetvcrende.it/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69_100&products_id=569
this has one http://www.ebay.com/itm/power-supply-unit-philips-tv-47PFL4606H-/191853091823
maybe 80GL32T923-TK TMS94949CT http://parts-tv.com/en/Philips-XFMR-INVERTER-73MH-TMS94949CT-996510032995 only  3 euro
http://aukro.ua/080gl32t923-tms94949ct-i6134310628.html ~$5


parts-tv.com looks most decent from all of this, list price is only 3 euro and they supply shitho^^^less civilised parts of the world so shipping should be cheap too

[qc1998]

sorry

good news there are plenty of transformers you can fit there, bad news they are all mostly available second hand and usually listed around  30 $/euro
80GL32T-38-TK TMS95304CT https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://monitor.espec.ws/section48/topic220668.html&prev=search
080GL52T929 TMS94876CT
maybe even 80GL52T931YS1 http://www.servicetvcrende.it/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69_100&products_id=569
this has one http://www.ebay.com/itm/power-supply-unit-philips-tv-47PFL4606H-/191853091823
maybe 80GL32T923-TK TMS94949CT http://parts-tv.com/en/Philips-XFMR-INVERTER-73MH-TMS94949CT-996510032995 only  3 euro
http://aukro.ua/080gl32t923-tms94949ct-i6134310628.html ~$5


parts-tv.com looks most decent from all of this, list price is only 3 euro and they supply shitho^^^less civilised parts of the world so shipping should be cheap too

That looks more promising!
I appreciate that. 

May I ask how do you know that these transformers would fit my PSU?
They look quite different.
Do you have some cross-reference document or service manual?
If you have any documentation, can I get a copy?

Also, when you say that these would fit, do you mean that they would drop right into the board, or that the electrical characteristics are similar?

Thanks.


<RANT>
By the way, I don't know where you live, but  I am not sure I appreciate your 'less civilized' remark. 
I hope it was just an attempt at humor, but it does come across as pretty patronizing.
I really don't want to go into politics, but you might want to take a look at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Very_high_human_development
or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita#List_of_per_capita_nominal_GDP_for_countries_and_dependencies
I would admit that the customs and tax offices over here are pretty uncivilized though... 
</RANT>

[Rasz]

May I ask how do you know that these transformers would fit my PSU?
They look quite different.
Do you have some cross-reference document or service manual?
If you have any documentation, can I get a copy?

Also, when you say that these would fit, do you mean that they would drop right into the board, or that the electrical characteristics are similar?

first link from last post, some russian tested TMS95304CT, other ones might have different footprints, but they all look quite standardized across philips TVs

<RANT>
By the way, I don't know where you live, but  I am not sure I appreciate your 'less civilized' remark. 

quite simple really, I linked fully working and tested supply for $30 and you didnt buy it, so I figured you are looking for some kind of ridiculously cheap deal, company supplying parts to latin america might just be the ticket, nothing to do with your geo location

[qc1998]

quite simple really, I linked fully working and tested supply for $30 and you didnt buy it, so I figured you are looking for some kind of ridiculously cheap deal, company supplying parts to latin america might just be the ticket, nothing to do with your geo location

Are you talking about that auction site that is completely in Polish?
(http://allegro.pl/dps-298cp-a-i6105389553.html)
The price was never the issue. I would gladly pay 33$ for that PSU!
(Even double that TBH)

The problem is that I don't speak a word of Polish, and using Google translate, I was not able to order the item.
I actually did spent about half an hour trying to understand how the site works, but got nowhere... 
(Trying to add to the shopping cart, I just get an error saying "[MISSING]: CART_SOMETHING_WRONG")
I also found no mention of International Shipping on that site/item.
Anyway I doubt that a site without an English UI option would even ship outside Poland.

Do you speak Polish BTW?

first link from last post, some russian tested TMS95304CT, other ones might have different footprints, but they all look quite standardized across philips TVs

I'm not sure I understood what the Russian guy was trying to do, and his results.
Google translate of that site looks like gibberish to me.   

About the other ones, are you saying that the fact that a transformer 'look quite standardized' should be enough to try and use it?
I would seriously hesitate going by this assumption, without an actual datasheet or documentation.
I do not want to risk blowing up the panel with the wrong voltage or current rated transformer.
Maybe I would try it as a last resort, if I can't find the actual part.

Do you have any additional evidence that these transformers are at least electrically similar?

Thanks.

[baku]

Are you talking about that auction site that is completely in Polish?
(http://allegro.pl/dps-298cp-a-i6105389553.html)
The price was never the issue. I would gladly pay 33$ for that PSU!
(Even double that TBH)

The problem is that I don't speak a word of Polish, and using Google translate, I was not able to order the item.
I actually did spent about half an hour trying to understand how the site works, but got nowhere... 
(Trying to add to the shopping cart, I just get an error saying "[MISSING]: CART_SOMETHING_WRONG")
I also found no mention of International Shipping on that site/item.
Anyway I doubt that a site without an English UI option would even ship outside Poland.
...

Hello All,
I have been looking for the solution of the same issue I have with my 42PFL8404H/12 Philips LCD and found this 1 year old post.
Was any fix found for the issue ?
Dear qc1998, please update.

[qc1998]

...
Dear qc1998, please update.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to solve the problem.

As I said before, I am pretty sure that the only way to repair the power supply is to replace the high voltage transformer, but I was not able to find a replacement part.
(Or a replacement PSU board)

I recently got a power supply from a different Philips TV that I think has an electrically similar backlight, but the transformer in it has different footprint / physical dimensions.
(My TV's original power supply was made by Delta, while the other power supply I got was made by LG)

When my TV finally dies I might attempt to replace the transformer with the one from that different model.
It would be an improvised, ugly fix, and I am not sure if it would work, but it's probably worth a shot. 

And by the way, yes, the TV still works, probably because it is not being used much.
(I have another TV and two tablets...  )
You just have to wait for a few minutes after you turn it on for the discharge 'clicks' to stop.

And Baku, if you do find where to buy this transformer (or the whole power supply board), please let me know.
Thanks.

[baku]

...
And Baku, if you do find where to buy this transformer (or the whole power supply board), please let me know.
Thanks.

I was hoping for a better luck on your side 
I have found a slightly different revisions of the same PSU board on ebay.

Take a look :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-2722-171-00702-Genuine-DPS-298CP-A-Power-supply-Board-New-in-Box-/381988285104?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Netzteil-DPS298CP-1A-aus-Philips-37PFL8404H-12-/182527130619?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Netzteil-DPS-298CP-A-fuer-LCD-TV-PHILIPS-37PFL8404-H-12-37PFL8684-H-GEPRUFT-/252776900985?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

You have mentioned that you have replaced the ceramic capacitors and it did not help.
Were you talking about the capacitors I marked on the picture ?
Are they the same capacitors offered here :
http://www.electronic-doc.de/kondensatoren/420-reparaturset-dps298cp4a-2x33pf-2x47pf.html?search_query=DPS-298CP&results=21

[james_s]

You might try whatever similarly sized CCFL transformer you can find, the specs tend to be very similar even if they don't look quite the same. There are lots of ccfl transformers on ebay, or you could set up a saved search for your TV model that will alert you if any parts for it get listed. Often you can buy boards from scrapped TVs.