Leica Battery Charger repair

[Dan666]

Hi,
I'm a newbie when it comes to electronics, but I like to experiment and, possibly, fix my stuff.

The new thing that stopped working is the Leica M8 battery charger, an Ansmann AN13805, which incidentally costs ~170$ new.

The thing has two leds: a green one which turns on when you plug it in - and it's working - and a orange one that turns on when it's charging, which doesn't turn on. Not only that, but it's not charging the battery at all (so it's not a problem of the LED itself).

There are 3 pins for the battery, two are near one another, and the third is a bit far away from the two.
The tester, when there isn't any battery there, but it's plugged in,  reads 0.30v or something between the near two and nothing between the far one and either of the two.

I've opened it up, and that's where I don't know what to do or check... ehm
What do I check now?

thanks,
Danilo

[Toasty]

Pictures please

Clear close up photos of circuit board(s) front & back to identify components. 

Which model of charger?  There seems to be several options out there.

T

[Dan666]

Pictures please

Clear close up photos of circuit board(s) front & back to identify components. 

Which model of charger?  There seems to be several options out there.

T

The charger model is this Ansmann AE13805, it's the charger that came with the Leica M8.

I'm adding some pictures of the inside, there is some brown solid "stuff" which doesn't appear to be escaped from some components, but I don't have any idea of what it is.
It may appear a bit ugly to untrained eyes like mine...

anyhow, here's the pictures












Thanks!

Danilo

[Armadillo]

Well, you need to know that it carries lethal voltage at the capacitor even when the unit is off the main and you need to know how to discharge the capacitors. If you are not sure, please STOP!

Firstly, you will take a multimeter and carefully measure the DC voltages of the [Electrolytic] capacitors. Then you tell us the voltages on each of the capacitors measured.

Do you know how to measure capacitor safely?

[Armadillo]

See attached;

Can you tell me what is the cardboard looking thing there connects to?

Wipe clean the IC surface and take a close up of the IC so that the Part Number can be identified.

 

[Toasty]

@Armadillo - that's an EM shield

Dan666-

How old is the battery?  Consider it may be time for a new one and there is nothing wrong with the charger.

Did this fail from one day to the next?  Or had it been a while since last used?

To test this, you need to apply power to the unit -SAFELY-.  You have not shown any way in which you can do that (isolation transformer).  I'm sorry, but I just don't feel comfortable giving instructions to someone who admits being new and an experimenter.  Especially when it involves mains voltage that can kill.

I can say that the brown substance on the board (glue) around the coils and other components needs to be removed.  I see corrosion on one lead near the mains cap that connects the filter board to the mainboard.  A common issue.  It can be replaced (sparingly) with a low-acid type of silicone sealant to re-secure the components.

I have seen alternative chargers for less than $40 that might work.  You just need to be sure they have 3 pins and have the "charge finished" LED.  Some are only 2 pins and don't monitor the charge state on the battery.  The battery has circuitry inside that communicates with the charger through that 3rd pin.

Do you have a local camera shop that can help?  Or someone that has the same type of battery & charger?

Cheers!
T

[Dan666]

Hi all,
thanks for the insights, and for caring about my safety!

I am aware that's dangerous when it comes to touch electronics that uses the mains, and that capacitors are the most dangerous components, in fact I've avoided touching anything (even though I've tried to discharge the larger cap - not in a very safe manner, actually, with the screwdriver trick I've seen in videos, which were full of sparks fun...).

In any case, I'm not going to plug it in and tinker around it as I'm aware I don't know enough about electronics (and safety). I understand it should be tested when it's powered, and that's enough for me to stop here. An off-brand replacement (nitecore ULM9) just set me back 25 euros, which seems affordable and reasonable.

Just for learning, what is that cardboard-looking thing? I thought it could be a thermal dissipator of some sort, is it?

Also, what struck me was the "dirtiness" or "ugliness" of its internal, maybe I haven't seen enough equipment interiors but still... from a battery charger sold for 170$ I would have expected something a bit more "clean"...

Thanks to all!

Danilo.

[Armadillo]

Hi all,
thanks for the insights, and for caring about my safety!

I am aware that's dangerous when it comes to touch electronics that uses the mains, and that capacitors are the most dangerous components, in fact I've avoided touching anything (even though I've tried to discharge the larger cap - not in a very safe manner, actually, with the screwdriver trick I've seen in videos, which were full of sparks fun...).

In any case, I'm not going to plug it in and tinker around it as I'm aware I don't know enough about electronics (and safety). I understand it should be tested when it's powered, and that's enough for me to stop here. An off-brand replacement (nitecore ULM9) just set me back 25 euros, which seems affordable and reasonable.

Just for learning, what is that cardboard-looking thing? I thought it could be a thermal dissipator of some sort, is it?

Also, what struck me was the "dirtiness" or "ugliness" of its internal, maybe I haven't seen enough equipment interiors but still... from a battery charger sold for 170$ I would have expected something a bit more "clean"...

Thanks to all!

Danilo.

Great that you found your replacement charger.   
Regarding the cardboard, yes, I agree, its a bit unsightly. I think someone was into it before and put a backing cardboard onto the EMI aluminium or copper shield plate and Red taped it.

Wise decision, Great. Enjoy your new charger.   

[Toasty]

You have made a smart choice.

As I said in my previous reply, that is an EM (electromagnetic) shield.   Prevents the electrical "noise" from the charger from interfering with other devices.

Shame you're not here in the US as I'd like to get a look at the charger.

Best Wishes!
T

[Dan666]

Great that you found your replacement charger.   
Regarding the cardboard, yes, I agree, its a bit unsightly. I think someone was into it before and put a backing cardboard onto the EMI aluminium or copper shield plate and Red taped it.

Thanks

I have bought this camera new ten years ago, no one that wasn't at the factory has opened the charger before me. What's in there was shipped out of the factory that way.

[Dan666]

Do you know how to measure capacitor safely?

No, how do I do that?
by discharging them first? (I've read you need to connect it to a large - 1MOhm - resistor, how long does it take to fully discharge a capacitor that way?)

Thanks,
Danilo

[Armadillo]

Do you know how to measure capacitor safely?

No, how do I do that?
by discharging them first? (I've read you need to connect it to a large - 1MOhm - resistor, how long does it take to fully discharge a capacitor that way?)

Thanks,
Danilo

Hi Danilo;

You know, that question was merely to assess your confident level. I was hoping for a "YES" actually, that way, I know you will be safe and we can continue to discuss how to troubleshoot that charger.

As long as you are aware, you use probes that are designed for the voltage example 1000v rated, you stay far away from psychical contact during the measurement, one hand in pocket rules, wear safety gears like safety glasses etc, set the meter to correct mode example not current mode when measure voltage, it will explode.... don't forget to always discharge the capacitors [most people including me tends to forget and you forget easily when the brain is occupied, believe me].

You are right, 1Mohm will take very long time and its not practical.

Suggest Youtube videos;

[Armadillo]

shipped out of the factory that way.

Leica was reputed for Optics, that's as far as I know. Maybe not electronics some 10 years ago. For that $170 for a charger, man it's a rip off... The quality is really bad for that price. I think it's OEM and not made by Leica?

Man, just look at that quality 10 years ago.... man it's not acceptable for $170.

[Dan666]

Leica was reputed for Optics, that's as far as I know. Maybe not electronics some 10 years ago. For that $170 for a charger, man it's a rip off... The quality is really bad for that price. I think it's OEM and not made by Leica?

Man, just look at that quality 10 years ago.... man it's not acceptable for $170.

It's from Ansmann.
I have just bought this one http://charger.nitecore.com/CHARGER/CAMERA/ULM9/ for 25 euros shipped, I wouldn't spend 170 $ for that crap, but apparently that's how they charged for it.

There's a new version of that, here https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/586180-REG/Leica_14_470_Battery_Charger_for_Leica.html

take a look at how expensive are the batteries. And third-party batteries are reported to work bad and maybe create problems with the cameras, which themselves go for several thousand bucks. So are you betting your 4K$ camera on a 13$ battery? no, of course, shell out 160$ for a li-ion battery then... sigh

[Dan666]

Hi Danilo;

You know, that question was merely to assess your confident level. I was hoping for a "YES" actually, that way, I know you will be safe and we can continue to discuss how to troubleshoot that charger.

As long as you are aware, you use probes that are designed for the voltage example 1000v rated, you stay far away from psychical contact during the measurement, one hand in pocket rules, wear safety gears like safety glasses etc, set the meter to correct mode example not current mode when measure voltage, it will explode.... don't forget to always discharge the capacitors [most people including me tends to forget and you forget easily when the brain is occupied, believe me].

You are right, 1Mohm will take very long time and its not practical.

Suggest Youtube videos;

interesting video, it also shed some light on resistor values to use in discharging caps. Thanks, now I know better about that stuff!

[Armadillo]

It's from Ansmann.
I have just bought this one http://charger.nitecore.com/CHARGER/CAMERA/ULM9/ for 25 euros shipped, I wouldn't spend 170 $ for that crap, but apparently that's how they charged for it.

There's a new version of that, here https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/586180-REG/Leica_14_470_Battery_Charger_for_Leica.html

take a look at how expensive are the batteries. And third-party batteries are reported to work bad and maybe create problems with the cameras, which themselves go for several thousand bucks. So are you betting your 4K$ camera on a 13$ battery? no, of course, shell out 160$ for a li-ion battery then... sigh

That goes to say this, pay for Leica Optics, can't debate with that, but not for stuffs not made by them including Lipo battery I suspect. Worth to try.
Why I opine like this. Look at the compatible charger you bought, its so stylish and contemporary looking and cost effective over the "Leica' worded expensive charger suspected to be OEM product anyway.

So, use the new charger, the old one is TOO "out of style" to repair it. Don't you agree?.