Author Topic: Rigol ds1054z  (Read 6550 times)

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Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Rigol ds1054z
« on: April 27, 2018, 12:00:38 pm »
I have a rigol with a month of use, and as I bought it in tequipamnet, when I start it after a long free time, if the tips are set X10, they decompensate with the operation of the minutes everything is fixed, This does not happen the same if X1 is configured, the measurements are correct compared to a TEK oscilloscope and a RIGOL function generator. Once they are compensated, everything works perfect, but I do not like that defect. The problem that does not have technical information about it is not where to start looking for the fault, I tend to bad welding, but this affects the four channels more to one than to the other. I sent both tequipamento and Rigol, without any response, and the cost of sending it from Argenina to the US costs me the same as the oscilloscope. |O |O
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2018, 10:02:59 pm »
I upload some images of the problem, the first is X10 probes, where the defect is seen.


The second image is taken at the same time as the first one, configured probes X1.


and the third probe image configured X10, ten minutes after having initialized the oscilloscope.



 

Online BravoV

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2018, 10:08:31 pm »
Are you saying the probe compensation drifted "AFTER" you have done the compensation at the "SAME" probe ?

Or different probe ?
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 10:18:40 pm »
Bear with me, as I'm trying to understand what the issue is, so here comes the questions...
  • When I look at the first image you've posted, have you adjusted the compensation screw to get a nice square wave to start with?
  • If you have, are you saying you can't get it any better than what's on the first image (stays out of cal no matter where you adjust it; i.e. drift as BravoV is asking)?
  • Lastly, is it consistent with all the probes or just select ones?
:-//
 

Online TK

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 10:18:57 pm »
This was posted before by the same user.  He is saying that as soon as the scope is turned on, the signal is uncompensated, then after some minutes (I remember he said 5 - 10 min), the signal get compensated all by itself.

I really cannot imagine any component that can be experiencing such temperature change in that short time.

What happens if you turn it off, then on back again?  Are the probes uncompensated?  If yes, then it is not a temperature issue.
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 10:23:47 pm »
Are you saying the probe compensation drifted "AFTER" you have done the compensation at the "SAME" probe ?

Or different probe ?
the four probes are the original ones, they are compensated, what happens is that when I start it after many hours off, if the probes are configured X10, they start decompensated and ten minutes later they are fine, it is not the same if I configure them X1.
Bear with me, as I'm trying to understand what the issue is, so here comes the questions...
  • When I look at the first image you've posted, have you adjusted the compensation screw to get a nice square wave to start with?
  • If you have, are you saying you can't get it any better than what's on the first image (stays out of cal no matter where you adjust it; i.e. drift as BravoV is asking)?
  • Lastly, is it consistent with all the probes or just select ones?
:-//

this happens in the four probes, ten minutes later they are perfect.

Are you saying the probe compensation drifted "AFTER" you have done the compensation at the "SAME" probe ?

Or different probe ?


this happens in the four probes, ten minutes later they are perfect as they compensate :)

 

Online BravoV

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2018, 10:30:14 pm »
Bear with me, as I'm trying to understand what the issue is ...

I thought I was the only one that confused on the OP's post. It seems like there is a language barrier here.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 10:38:39 pm »
Do you have any other probes you can test with?
  • This would isolate the issue to either the scope or the included probes.

It may not matter, but they changed the included probes at some point IIRC.
  • Mine are the RP2200 passive probes (older ones), and I'll check to see if they behave the same as what you're experiencing*.

* I don't recall this being the case, but I'd rather test to be sure.
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2018, 10:47:17 pm »
Try these :

- Use only one probe at say port 1
- Set to 10X (and DO NOT change to 1X during the test)
- Compensate the probe by using the supplied screw driver to make sure its ok
- Wait or do use the scope as normal for hours.
- Again, DO NOT switch to 1X during the test.
- DO NOT change the probe or move to other ports, stay at port 1.

Does the problem still exist ?
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2018, 10:49:42 pm »
these are the probes that the rigol DS1054Z now brings, are the PVP2150
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2018, 10:54:09 pm »
Try these :

- Use only one probe at say port 1
- Set to 10X (and DO NOT change to 1X during the test)
- Compensate the probe by using the supplied screw driver to make sure its ok
- Wait or do use the scope as normal for hours.
- Again, DO NOT switch to 1X during the test.
- DO NOT change the probe or move to other ports, stay at port 1.

Does the problem still exist ?

Hi, as I said before, once it takes about ten minutes, the probes are compensated, regardless of the channel, this happens after the  oscilloscope has been off for several hours. at this moment after an hour it is this way.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 11:04:43 pm by Adrian_Arg. »
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2018, 11:01:17 pm »
Hi, as I said before, once it takes about ten minutes, the probes are compensated, regardless of the channel, this happens after the computer has been off for several hours. at this moment after an hour it is this way.

Sorry, "the computer" here you mean is the oscilloscope right ?
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2018, 11:03:23 pm »
yes, the  oscilloscope, I sorry
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2018, 11:24:00 pm »
The problem is not only the cost of return shipping from Argentina to the US, but Tequipament recommends me to contact RIGOL, and RIGOL tells me to contact Tequipament, who sold it to me, and I only I ask you to guide me where to look for the fault, I do not know if it is a problem of power, of the power source or of bad welding, there are people who have changed the oscilloscope and sent it with another fault.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2018, 11:27:45 pm »
Have you run a self-cal on it?

Doubt this will affect what's going on, but it's worth a shot.
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2018, 11:34:09 pm »
Have you run a self-cal on it?

Doubt this will affect what's going on, but it's worth a shot.

yes, I have done a self-calibration with and without the present error, nothing changes, and with the tips of the tektronic the error continues
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2018, 11:43:42 pm »
Have you run a self-cal on it?

Doubt this will affect what's going on, but it's worth a shot.

yes, I have done a self-calibration with and without the present error, nothing changes, and with the tips of the tektronic the error continues
So you have been able to test the DS1054Z with different probes and get the same result?
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2018, 11:51:55 pm »
Yes, if I turn it on without the probes and at 10 minutes connect the probes it is compensated, the same if I turn it on with the probe connected. the probes I use are from a tektronic >:( >:(
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2018, 11:59:20 pm »
Yes, if I turn it on without the probes and at 10 minutes connect the probes it is compensated, the same if I turn it on with the probe connected. the probes I use are from a tektronic >:( >:(
I get the frustration.

FWIW, I'm accustomed to turning gear on and letting it warm up (still recommended/required on current gear). So I've not paid any attention to the issue you're experiencing (don't know if it's normal or not).

I need to let mine cool down (ran a fresh cal to give it a clean slate if you will), and I'll see if I can't reproduce it with the RP2200 or other probes I have on hand.

Next questions:
  • After it's warmed up 10min+, does it behave as it should with measured signals (not just 1kHz square for probe cal)?
  • Do you have another scope to compare the same signal (CRO, DSO, doesn't matter)?
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2018, 12:08:04 am »
Yes, if I turn it on without the probes and at 10 minutes connect the probes it is compensated, the same if I turn it on with the probe connected. the probes I use are from a tektronic >:( >:(
I get the frustration.

FWIW, I'm accustomed to turning gear on and letting it warm up (still recommended/required on current gear). So I've not paid any attention to the issue you're experiencing (don't know if it's normal or not).

I need to let mine cool down (ran a fresh cal to give it a clean slate if you will), and I'll see if I can't reproduce it with the RP2200 or other probes I have on hand.

Next questions:
  • After it's warmed up 10min+, does it behave as it should with measured signals (not just 1kHz square for probe cal)?
  • Do you have another scope to compare the same signal (CRO, DSO, doesn't matter)?

if after heating (it seems we are talking about a valve equipment) behaves well compared to a TEK TDS 1154 and a function generator Rigol DG1022, both teams belong to a friend. The rigol picks up a little more noise than the tektronix with the original tips, with the TEK it works excellent, always after 10 minutes.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2018, 12:17:47 am »
Yes, if I turn it on without the probes and at 10 minutes connect the probes it is compensated, the same if I turn it on with the probe connected. the probes I use are from a tektronic >:( >:(
I get the frustration.

FWIW, I'm accustomed to turning gear on and letting it warm up (still recommended/required on current gear). So I've not paid any attention to the issue you're experiencing (don't know if it's normal or not).

I need to let mine cool down (ran a fresh cal to give it a clean slate if you will), and I'll see if I can't reproduce it with the RP2200 or other probes I have on hand.

Next questions:
  • After it's warmed up 10min+, does it behave as it should with measured signals (not just 1kHz square for probe cal)?
  • Do you have another scope to compare the same signal (CRO, DSO, doesn't matter)?

if after heating (it seems we are talking about a valve equipment) behaves well compared to a TEK TDS 1154 and a function generator Rigol DG1022, both teams belong to a friend. The rigol picks up a little more noise than the tektronix with the original tips, with the TEK it works excellent, always after 10 minutes.
Even for non-valve equipment (save its CRT if present).

For example, I've a TEK 2445B on hand which needs to warm up a bit. I usually give it ~30min.

On current equipment, take the Tektronix 7150 7.5digit DMM. According to it's documentation, it requires a 90 min. warm up time. It even generates a log entry when this period is completed.

Granted, this ^ is a precision instrument, but there may still be heated references and such used in other gear. Precision PSU's would be another bit of kit that may take this approach.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2018, 12:21:40 am »
Dug into the manual for the 2445, and found...

Quote
...a warm-up period of at least 20 minutes, and is operating at an ambient temperature between -15°C and +55°C. (unless otherwise noted).
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2018, 12:26:50 am »
Dug into the manual for the 2445, and found...

Quote
...a warm-up period of at least 20 minutes, and is operating at an ambient temperature between -15°C and +55°C. (unless otherwise noted).
Ok but the Tek 2445 is valvular, it's like the old TV or radio equipment, it is incredible that this happens with a digital equipment. My doubt is that if it is a poorly welded component this will worsen or directly die. And another thing the people of Tequipament and Rigol leaves much to be desired, since they were dedicated to dodge the problem before recommending any advice to review the equipment.
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2018, 12:42:29 am »

What happens if you turn it off, then on back again?  Are the probes uncompensated?  If yes, then it is not a temperature issue.
ok, if I turn it off and turn it on within a time range from 0 minutes to plus or minus 30 minutes, the probe remains compensated, the longer the error begins to be noticed.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2018, 12:45:13 am »
Dug into the manual for the 2445, and found...

Quote
...a warm-up period of at least 20 minutes, and is operating at an ambient temperature between -15°C and +55°C. (unless otherwise noted).
Ok but the Tek 2445 is valvular, it's like the old TV or radio equipment, it is incredible that this happens with a digital equipment. My doubt is that if it is a poorly welded component this will worsen or directly die. And another thing the people of Tequipament and Rigol leaves much to be desired, since they were dedicated to dodge the problem before recommending any advice to review the equipment.
The only valve in a 2445B is the CRT (or any other 24xx or 22xx series). Everything else is purely solid state.

If I understand the rest of your statement/concern, are you talking about thermal cycling of a bad solder joint?
  • If this turns out to be the case, at least it's an easy fix.  :phew:

As per your issues between TEquipment and Rigol, it's ultimately the compromise made by purchasing it in US at an acceptable price (not even sure there is an Argentinian distributor  :-//). The global locations make it a mess.  :(

Technically this is a grey market purchase. FWIW, some manufacturers even use this as an excuse to void the warranty unless it's sent back to the original country of purchase.

For clarification (further information on link)...
Quote
What is the 'Grey Market' The grey market, also referred to as the parallel market, is a market where a product is bought and sold outside of the manufacturer's authorized trading channels.
Of course, this is getting outside of what's going on with your scope.
 


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