Author Topic: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error - FIXED  (Read 25225 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online DaJMastaTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2296
  • Country: us
    • medpants.com
Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2017, 12:21:21 am »
A quick update, I went through some measurements, watched the ALC line some more, and then some extra calibration steps.... and Error 183 is no longer present.  Running the auto-calibration of level presets before the ALC table fixed the complaint, and now the output is somewhat flatter.  It's very consistently about 0.15dB (0.1-0.2dB) below ideal on the output power, so I'd like to nudge it up a bit, but it is slightly flatter than it was before and it's basically the same amount under for both boards (even the one I haven't messed with).  Since this will probably change with the shielding and reconnecting the SMAs one more time, I will wait to do this until the end.  While I still want to swap N3 for security's sake and take those other measurements, I believe i can officially call this fixed8)
 

Offline smgvbest

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 630
  • Country: us
    • Kilbourne Astronomics
Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error - FIXED
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2017, 06:18:49 pm »
I added you're values to the spreadsheet and made some changes to it to troubleshoot more
the testpoint now are in order of the signal path not numerically  so you can see where things start to go wrong at a glance or atleast appear to go wrong


also here's a image of the page for those curious but not wanting to download a spreasheet
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Online DaJMastaTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2296
  • Country: us
    • medpants.com
Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error - FIXED
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2017, 04:04:37 am »
I figure I'll close this repair up and condense a bit of the measurement info - in case someone's got a 6GHz extension board with problems and want something to compare it to.  I've also made a bunch of measurements to show the value of shielding (if anyone had any doubts...) that are at least neat looking, but since it's a lot of images and a few that I want to combine, it will take a bit more to put it all together.  Long story short, you get a little bit of a broadcast on frequencies below the crossover to use this board, but then you get basically everything when the frequency is coming from the uncovered board - and at least from an initial glance, you can see the harmonics come and go as the frequency rises and the filter bands are engaged.  The harmonics on the output also drop something like 20dB as a baseline, and in most cases much better than that, and just by sticking on the shielding bits, the board essentially becomes silent - the chassis doesn't seem to contribute much to shielding, since every unit is self contained in a shielded box.


So from that last post proclaiming it fixed, I removed the card, removed the mod wires, replaced N3 with the same chip as N4, cleaned up a couple of odd looking joints from previous mod wire removals, and then sprayed down the flux residue with my fancy alcohol sprayer (airbrush).  Did a pretty reasonable job cleaning it, though I never had the guts to clean the hybrid power module with alcohol and was sure to wait after soldering (warm ground plane + fast evaporating alcohol in an airstream seems like a recipe for thermal fractures...).  And I was left with this nice clean board:


Over the last month and a half, I replaced all these parts.... though in retrospect and after seeing the fixed failure... several of these are probably fully functional  :-[


I put it back in and ran some tests for the sake of interest, then pulled it one last time to put it all back together.  I found that the silver tarnish came off the shielding very easily with a little rubbing alcohol, so I went around the edges and the RF gasket to try to make sure the seal was good, then I clapped on the two shielding boards and went to town on something like 40 torx screws.


Then back in the box with the others, making sure the SMAs were nicely tightened:


Then after some testing, I slapped on the top and bottom housings and put on the back pieces... for a nice looking piece of functional test equipment.


When it was fully together, I left it and the RF power meter on for a bit, ran the full self calibration of the SMIQ and zeroed my sensor and checked output linearity... it got a bit better!  At the bottom end, it's a bit under, I saw as far off as -0.23dBm when the output was set to 0dBm, but for most of the range it's off by only a few hundredths of a dBm, and right at the top it was +0.03dBm.  Quite pleased, especially given that the sensor's last cal was probably in the late 90s.

Also took a measurement of the sound level, at about the same positioning as before, and it's somewhere around 4.5dB down!  It's honestly higher than I expected from the reading, since it sounds much quieter to me, but getting the chassis on did get the noise up a bit.  Now instead of being pretty much the noisiest thing on the bench, it's under the stock fan for my DS4024 and my power supply takes the loud-operation crown once again.


I took a nice long peak hold run of a frequency sweep output to get a general idea of linearity of the output (and I actually think the dropoff shown is more in the spectrum analyzer, since the cable should be fairly good and the power meter reads a lot less than this).  Regardless, it looks much better.


And while I'll go into the EMI readings later, even though the frequencies are slightly different, this gives you an idea of the noise reduction you get on the output with nice shielding.  With the shield @3.8GHz:


Without the shield at 4GHz (same frequency band, didn't remember to actually match the frequency or the RBW... but the trend is clear)


And to aggregate, I sent along the test point readings and are in the spreadsheet in the last post - these are accessible through the menu without opening the unit at all and without external gear.  And here's the measurements I noted down on the bias lines for the RF amps and some other things - always 2 inductors away from the signal path.  My board reports as Var. 2, Rev. 2 in the software, and it is somewhat different from the schematics (most of the "not populated" amps in the schematic are present.  I didn't note frequencies for most of them and I know frequencies changed somewhat (and a few intentionally are driven differently with frequency) so use these as guidelines, not necessarily correct values for your situation.

MGA86523 amps:
N14 - 3.125V
N25 - 3.133V
N35 - 2.784V
N36 - 3.959V
N37 - 2.905V

Other types
N38 - 4.913V, somewhat noisy
N39 - 4.906V, somewhat noisy
V20 - 4.457V, somewhat noisy
N15 - 4.537V
N17 - 4.513V, "chunky" noise (similar amplitude, but slower changing)
N4 - 6.612V-6.601V, THIS MEASUREMENT WAS TAKEN WITH THE FAULTY AMP
N3 - 4.72V-4.69V, gradual drop as it warms up THIS AMP WAS ALSO REPLACED AS A PRECAUTION
V87 - 4.423V, varies with level adjustment

V91 bias: 4.71V
V92 gate: -1.35V
V92 bias: 7.133V
V94 bias: 7.05V
V95 bias: 7.05V

V191 gate: -5.039V
Power module VDD: 7.2V

It's also worth noting that the faulty N3 did not measure any differently from N4 when removed from the board using a multimeter's diode check function even though it was clearly the fault.  A number of diodes and things read really strange testing this way in circuit, even when the circuit seemed very simple, only to be fine and consistent when removed.

Some RF noise investigations to follow to round out my work in the unit.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 04:06:15 am by DaJMasta »
 
The following users thanked this post: KE5FX, smgvbest

Online DaJMastaTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2296
  • Country: us
    • medpants.com
Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error - FIXED
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2017, 05:43:53 am »
And as promised, a final post with some extra info - basically just curiosities that I could indulge when it was partly disassembled.

The first big one was: how much does the shielding actually do?  Well, predictably, the answer was a lot.  First in terms of purely radiated energy, I took my handy E field probe and stuck it over the board, about centered.


And with the top off I took some measurements with the spectrum analyzer:


Full set of measurements here:
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/100Mradio.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/1Gradio.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/2Gradio.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/3Gradio.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/3.8Gradio.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/4.6Gradio.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/5.4Gradio.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/6.2Gradio.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/smiqradio.jpg

And then in the same measurement configuration with the shield on, I took a similar set of measurements... but I don't need to post all of them.  I left the max trace (green) going during the whole test without resetting, and the shielding performed so well, the max trace basically looked like every measurement stage.  The one peak is the house wifi.


So for radiated RF, the system certainly works.  How does that look on the output though?
Well because I knew we'd at least see some mixing products on the uncovered board, I captured the screen alone of the analyzer when manually sweeping the range.  The first few are 100MHz apart while the rest are 200MHz, and the marker lies where the frequency range crosses over to use the 6GHz extension board, which was uncovered for the test.  This is a direct capture of what's coming out of the front N connector when the shielding is NOT in place.


Really fascinating for me to watch, not only can you see the filtering being switched on for different bands, but you can see the way the LO frequencies change and reset for higher bands.  And all this is being radiated from where it should be filtered out, picked up in the signal path, and then amplified and fed out through the front panel.

Of course, the output looks a lot better when you put the shielding back on.  3.301GHz is included because anything above 3.3GHz is done on the 6GHz extension board:


http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/100Mcovered.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/1Gcovered.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/2Gcovered.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/3Gcovered.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/3.301Gcovered.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/3.8Gcovered.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/4.6Gcovered.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/5.4Gcovered.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/6.2Gcovered.jpg
http://www.medpants.com/pics/smiq06/6.4Gcovered.jpg

Then as a final test, I just zoomed in on a nice central signal to see what could be seen.  Neither the analyzer nor the generator were on a reference clock and this SMIQ does not have the high stability timebase, so it's a bit under what it should, but the signal coming out seems pretty clean.


It's been interesting for me to do and I'm quite pleased with the result.  Hopefully it's interesting or useful to some of you too!
 

Online DaJMastaTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2296
  • Country: us
    • medpants.com
Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error - FIXED
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2018, 10:28:32 pm »
So as mentioned in a repair thread for a similar failure ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwarz-smiq06b-repair-6ghz-board-level-preset-error/ ), after several hours of use beyond the period I had tested, the fix detailed eventually started showing ALC errors again.  As is common with my projects, it sort of got shuffled into the pile and it was some months until I picked it up again.  However, a couple weeks ago it resurfaced, and I've got another fix that I can detail - which has been working fine for about half a dozen hours of uptime so far.

So to start, I hooked up the power sensor and took a look at the test points, and unsurprisingly, it read low then the ALC error showed, but somewhat surprisingly, on most frequencies at 0dBm output level, after the instrument had warmed up, it could go through most frequencies without actually triggering the ALC error.  Taking a look at test point values, a couple points were low, and when the ALC error appeared TP2413 was slammed against the top rail (not a rail to rail opamp off a 15V supply), but that it settled to a more normal range when working properly.




From that, and knowing that the SHF-0186 track record of being problematic in these instruments, I decided to swap V94 and V95, the amps right before the main power amp, for fresh ones.




The result was a stable, at the correct level output - great!  But on trying to relearn the ALC table, it failed partway through with an Error 180 "Range oot" message.  Not knowing exactly what oot was (out of tolerance?), I took a look at the test points again to see what had changed - and two values were considerably over the previous working values... so after examining the schematic again, I figured it was probably that it was trying to attenuate the output level (though the PIN diodes or through the amp biasing) too far in trying to level out the output to a point that the instrument threw an error.

So I needed less amplification in the signal path - specifically, right before the measurement points 2409 and 2410.  The biasing mechanism for the SHF-0186 amps is a variable transistor based thing with a bunch of elements that biased both sides of the amp with varying voltages/currents, so I opted for changing the fixed bias of the MGA82563 amps, first N25 and then N35 (before and after the split filter bank).  I did this by swapping the 23.4 ohm resistors at R39 and R320 (N35) as well as R934 and R935 (N25) for 33 ohm resistors (0805s since I didn't have any 0603s of the right value).  That additional resistance reduces the current going into the amp and the output level of each - after both, the full calibration would complete and the output is level and error free again!





Also, since the previous "fix", I've gotten a HDMI inspection microscope as well as a capture card, so I took the opportunity to take a couple quick pictures of some RF bits on the board.

First, the main mixer


Then the detector elements in the power module


And finally, the RF switch towards the bottom of the power module



I also found an inexpensive SM-B5 option card (FM modulator) that I installed quite easily.  The instructions were fairly clear and the included RF cables had their connections indicated on the heat shrink.  The only difference is that after installation, the procedure calls for holding the reset button when powering on to recognize new options... after a couple minutes of looking, I couldn't find a reset button and just powered it up.  The initialization screen was up for 2-3x as long, but the card was immediately active and available to use.  Easy!  Hope this thing stays fixed this time!
 

Offline charlyd

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 525
  • Country: nl
Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error - FIXED
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2022, 05:10:38 pm »
hi i think i post it here also :  any tips/suggestions on these components location N4 = code 301 and location N3 = code 802 / 8026 see link below i posted

the top pictures found in the topic here, -> the schematic version
the bottom zoomed pictures from my board ( unit was sealed when opend )

from my opinion the components are upgrades for the N3 and N4 and added by R&S  ( my e6GHz Var2 Rev3 )

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwarz-smiq06b-repair-6ghz-board-level-preset-error/msg4029241/#msg4029241
 

Offline charlyd

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 525
  • Country: nl
Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error - FIXED
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2022, 01:55:52 pm »
i guess the N4 = mmg3012nt1   (coded 301 ? )

ok and now still N3 ( coded 8026 )
 

Offline charlyd

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 525
  • Country: nl
Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error - FIXED
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2023, 08:43:07 am »
Hell i replaced N3 already (with a  MMG3012NT1) not yet N4. part of my errors(LEV PRESET) are gone now. but not yet the error:  CW: ALC_ON voltage oot so producent the ALC Table Failure.... is this maybe related to the fact that i also need to swap out N4 (with a MMG3012NT1 of course) to solve this last error.

or did i miss something else like these posts tells me:
--------------
Hello.
Calibration is failed for this reason:
IQCON no convergence
Error: CW: ALC_ON voltage oot;
Check IQ converter module.
Regards, Sebastijan.
‐-----------------
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/smiq03b-errors-after-battery-change/msg3528756/#msg3528756
« Last Edit: September 03, 2023, 12:20:47 pm by charlyd »
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf