URGENT! My Fluke 187 multimeter stopped reading voltages (ac and dc)

[MosherIV]

Because the repair require recalibration and here they would charge me like 400usd for the whole package

What about getting the part from Fluke, someone said it is only $30, fix it yourself.
Then get another calibration Lab to re-calibrate the meter. You need to make it clear it is a Calibration adjustment and not just a calibration check.
The cost of that depends on the local cal lab.

[The Guy]

Because the repair require recalibration and here they would charge me like 400usd for the whole package

What about getting the part from Fluke, someone said it is only $30, fix it yourself.
Then get another calibration Lab to re-calibrate the meter. You need to make it clear it is a Calibration adjustment and not just a calibration check.
The cost of that depends on the local cal lab.

That's actually a good idea, will try to find a small lab that will recal my meter. Not sure if I'll find one though, but if i do that'd be great.

[rsjsouza]

The $40 dollar multimeter is a mexican distributed made in china unit, it's a Truper model MUT-39. Not accurate at all... like 1% of error in voltage readings. But hey, it does the work, and I just finished measuring the amp that killed my beloved Fluke. This cheapo did it like nothing, felt like measuring potatos... Lol.

Speed of Measurement/ADC.
How is the speed for Truper? I think the unit is in Number of measurement per second.
You know, in repair, can't weight for the display to take its time to answer.
I think is a fluke accident for this FLUKE, would you say?.

It's very fast, but not precise and it will jump around. For example when measuring 340vdc it will show the value like in 3sec but then will jump from say 338vdc to 445 back and froth like forever, so you need to calculate the average value yourself.

If one can trust the meter's manual published CAT ratings, it seems it will be enough for lower voltage jobs. The bouncing around in voltage measurement can possibly be due to either cables or something internal. Put it in continuity mode and see if the buzzer is intermittent or continuous as you move the cables around: if intermittent, replace the cables and see if the problem goes away; if the buzzer is continuous, the issue may be located at the voltage measurement circuit.

If the Truper meter was purchased new, I would go back and try to get a replacement/discount/refund.

[The Guy]

The $40 dollar multimeter is a mexican distributed made in china unit, it's a Truper model MUT-39. Not accurate at all... like 1% of error in voltage readings. But hey, it does the work, and I just finished measuring the amp that killed my beloved Fluke. This cheapo did it like nothing, felt like measuring potatos... Lol.

Speed of Measurement/ADC.
How is the speed for Truper? I think the unit is in Number of measurement per second.
You know, in repair, can't weight for the display to take its time to answer.
I think is a fluke accident for this FLUKE, would you say?.

It's very fast, but not precise and it will jump around. For example when measuring 340vdc it will show the value like in 3sec but then will jump from say 338vdc to 445 back and froth like forever, so you need to calculate the average value yourself.

If one can trust the meter's manual published CAT ratings, it seems it will be enough for lower voltage jobs. The bouncing around in voltage measurement can possibly be due to either cables or something internal. Put it in continuity mode and see if the buzzer is intermittent or continuous as you move the cables around: if intermittent, replace the cables and see if the problem goes away; if the buzzer is continuous, the issue may be located at the voltage measurement circuit.

If the Truper meter was purchased new, I would go back and try to get a replacement/discount/refund.

Sorry, my mistake. The jumping would be from 338 to 345, not to 445. Will go to the store where I purchased it and try another to see if it's "normal" or not

[The Soulman]

Why not replace/bridge the +/- 10 meg resistor with another (decent quality) 10 meg and ad a trimmer network to it
then you can adjust yourself.
If it reads good on one range than all others should read good also, replacing the entire network could be more troublesome.
It's a bodge but it's better than nothing.

[Armadillo]

Speed of Measurement/ADC.
How is the speed for Truper? I think the unit is in Number of measurement per second.
You know, in repair, can't weight for the display to take its time to answer.
I think is a fluke accident for this FLUKE, would you say?.

It's very fast, but not precise and it will jump around. For example when measuring 340vdc it will show the value like in 3sec but then will jump from say 338vdc to 445 back and froth like forever, so you need to calculate the average value yourself.

EDIT: Sorry it's not 445, it's 345, it would jump from 338 to 345.

3 sec is way too slow. I think for fluke is probably 300msec per reading, 20,000 counts to 99.99%. That would be the only reason I am using Fluke, not so much on the safety CATegories.  Money for Quality as the saying goes. It's like a F16 vs Mitsubishi Zero.  If I can remember correctly fluke is not using the 7106 chip, I think its some custom ASIC chipset.

When you repaired the Fluke, make a comparison. I don't think the china one can compare.

[Ian.M]

Why not replace/bridge the +/- 10 meg resistor with another (decent quality) 10 meg and ad a trimmer network to it
then you can adjust yourself.
If it reads good on one range than all others should read good also, replacing the entire network could be more troublesome.
It's a bodge but it's better than nothing.

Because on higher voltages the open circuit resistor could flash over or leak giving a highly inaccurate reading.   If you do this, you need to locate the defective resistor element on the substrate, and grind it away so it can never shunt the replacement resistor. 

[The Guy]

Speed of Measurement/ADC.
How is the speed for Truper? I think the unit is in Number of measurement per second.
You know, in repair, can't weight for the display to take its time to answer.
I think is a fluke accident for this FLUKE, would you say?.

It's very fast, but not precise and it will jump around. For example when measuring 340vdc it will show the value like in 3sec but then will jump from say 338vdc to 445 back and froth like forever, so you need to calculate the average value yourself.

EDIT: Sorry it's not 445, it's 345, it would jump from 338 to 345.

3 sec is way too slow. I think for fluke is probably 300msec per reading, 20,000 counts to 99.99%. That would be the only reason I am using Fluke, not so much on the safety CATegories.  Money for Quality as the saying goes. It's like a F16 vs Mitsubishi Zero.  If I can remember correctly fluke is not using the 7106 chip, I think its some custom ASIC chipset.

When you repaired the Fluke, make a comparison. I don't think the china one can compare.

Dude , it's a friggin 40 dollar meter... I don't know, I eyeballed it maybe it's 1 sec or 10 who knows. All I'm saying is that it got the work done. I'm pretty sure a japanese toyota will outlast a mercedes big time.

Obviously I'm not keeping this meter for checking high voltages because I might get killed... I just bought it to check my screwed up fluke

[tooki]

In theory. But there are countless reports of Fluke repairing/replacing meters under warranty with no proof of purchase whatsoever, e.g. with ones found in dumpsters. That alone makes it worth looking into even if you technically aren't eligible. I'm just astonished that the OP doesn't appear to have even attempted that route and has instead written off Fluke altogether. (See their other thread where they're looking for a new meter and have sworn off Fluke forever. In it, they also indicate that they were the original purchaser.)

Their reluctance to attempt warranty service, and the fact that the supposed circumstances of the damage are well within the operating specs (never mind overload specs) of the meter make me skeptical of the actual cause of damage; what really happened, OP?

...i did ask for a rapair under warranty at the fluke representatives in my country and since I didn't  bought the multimeter in their store they basically told me to F. Off. Their customer support is poop.

What really happened? I already explained what really happened.

So talk to Fluke USA (or whatever country you purchased it from) and see what they say. If they're willing to cover it under warranty, then the postage is still likely to be cheaper than the repair.

As for why I am skeptical of your story: you measured something well within the capabilities of the meter. There's no way that should have caused the damage shown.

[rsjsouza]

I have repaired a Fluke 8060A that had an intermittent connection in one of the pins of the Caddock resistor divider. In my case it was not an electrical damage but instead a mechanical one - I suspect that either the meter was subjected to a fall or someone had tried to repair it and accidentally hit the resistor divider. I fixed it by re-soldering the pin to the pad on the ceramic substrate.

If the multimeter of the OP was subjected to mechanical stress and the connection was hanging by a hair, the higher voltage measurement may have been enough to thermally vapourize what was left of a connection. I would, in this case, get a very potent loupe and carefully inspect the resistor divider for any problems.

[The Guy]

In theory. But there are countless reports of Fluke repairing/replacing meters under warranty with no proof of purchase whatsoever, e.g. with ones found in dumpsters. That alone makes it worth looking into even if you technically aren't eligible. I'm just astonished that the OP doesn't appear to have even attempted that route and has instead written off Fluke altogether. (See their other thread where they're looking for a new meter and have sworn off Fluke forever. In it, they also indicate that they were the original purchaser.)

Their reluctance to attempt warranty service, and the fact that the supposed circumstances of the damage are well within the operating specs (never mind overload specs) of the meter make me skeptical of the actual cause of damage; what really happened, OP?

...i did ask for a rapair under warranty at the fluke representatives in my country and since I didn't  bought the multimeter in their store they basically told me to F. Off. Their customer support is poop.

What really happened? I already explained what really happened.

So talk to Fluke USA (or whatever country you purchased it from) and see what they say. If they're willing to cover it under warranty, then the postage is still likely to be cheaper than the repair.

As for why I am skeptical of your story: you measured something well within the capabilities of the meter. There's no way that should have caused the damage shown.

All I can say is that I am not lying. I was measuring 4 different caps all with 450VDC in one of their leads and when I measured the third (without changing the selector) it didn't read crap. So. There.

Now if you still don't want to believe me then to my eyes, damn, kind of stubborn man.

[The Guy]

I have repaired a Fluke 8060A that had an intermittent connection in one of the pins of the Caddock resistor divider. In my case it was not an electrical damage but instead a mechanical one - I suspect that either the meter was subjected to a fall or someone had tried to repair it and accidentally hit the resistor divider. I fixed it by re-soldering the pin to the pad on the ceramic substrate.

If the multimeter of the OP was subjected to mechanical stress and the connection was hanging by a hair, the higher voltage measurement may have been enough to thermally vapourize what was left of a connection. I would, in this case, get a very potent loupe and carefully inspect the resistor divider for any problems.

I inspected the R divider with a 10x magnifying loupe but didn't see anything weird.... what should I look for?

[The Guy]

May someone please point me to the resistor network I need to buy? maybe a Caddock? I'm not sure how to find it.

I attached a picture from the original.
Thanks.

[rsjsouza]

I have repaired a Fluke 8060A that had an intermittent connection in one of the pins of the Caddock resistor divider. In my case it was not an electrical damage but instead a mechanical one - I suspect that either the meter was subjected to a fall or someone had tried to repair it and accidentally hit the resistor divider. I fixed it by re-soldering the pin to the pad on the ceramic substrate.

If the multimeter of the OP was subjected to mechanical stress and the connection was hanging by a hair, the higher voltage measurement may have been enough to thermally vapourize what was left of a connection. I would, in this case, get a very potent loupe and carefully inspect the resistor divider for any problems.

I inspected the R divider with a 10x magnifying loupe but didn't see anything weird.... what should I look for?

In my case it was a very small crack on the solder between the pad and the pin. I would also try to inspect the ceramic substrate for any very thin cracks. Something similar to what Dave did in a salvaged oscilloscope where the front panel suffered a hit (sorry, I forgot the episode number)

[The Guy]

I have repaired a Fluke 8060A that had an intermittent connection in one of the pins of the Caddock resistor divider. In my case it was not an electrical damage but instead a mechanical one - I suspect that either the meter was subjected to a fall or someone had tried to repair it and accidentally hit the resistor divider. I fixed it by re-soldering the pin to the pad on the ceramic substrate.

If the multimeter of the OP was subjected to mechanical stress and the connection was hanging by a hair, the higher voltage measurement may have been enough to thermally vapourize what was left of a connection. I would, in this case, get a very potent loupe and carefully inspect the resistor divider for any problems.

I inspected the R divider with a 10x magnifying loupe but didn't see anything weird.... what should I look for?

In my case it was a very small crack on the solder between the pad and the pin. I would also try to inspect the ceramic substrate for any very thin cracks. Something similar to what Dave did in a salvaged oscilloscope where the front panel suffered a hit (sorry, I forgot the episode number)

Checked the resistor network closely and couldn't see anything suspicious (I'm a high end jeweler, so I have a keen eye).
Weird.

The problem now is how to find a new resistor network, can't find it. Called to the fluke representatives here and they told me that since the 187 model is long ago discontinued they do not sell the part anymore. Searched the caddock site but couldn't find the part either.

Maybe someone can give me a hand? I'll appreciate it greatly.

Thanks

[Electro Detective]

I reckon with a bit of surfing there'll be some Ebayers out there with parts available,
or flogging physically damaged meters sold as parts

Might be able to score a working board cheaper than stuffing around sourcing parts and gambling, 


and avoid any more of those classic 'sorry that model is obsolete, **** off and buy a new one..' Flook serviss fone calls we all love..   

[Armadillo]

Hard to believe that sub 500VDC would do anything to your meter assuming it was in the DCV mode.   

Unclamped Flyback maybe? Or damaged wheeling diode.

If its straight DC voltage, then its a fluke accident.

[Electro Detective]

Whether it's a Fluke, Flook, Brymen, Uni-T or Harbor Fright    meter,

if you're prodding inside a tube filled gadget, then a high voltage probe or some form of attenuation is a must have

SHTF is best read as a peaky 100 volts,  rather than a nano burst of 10000v +++   

[tooki]

The problem now is how to find a new resistor network, can't find it. Called to the fluke representatives here and they told me that since the 187 model is long ago discontinued they do not sell the part anymore. Searched the caddock site but couldn't find the part either.

Stop dealing with the dipshit local distributor and talk to Fluke directly. (I run into the same stonewalling with distributors in Switzerland. So I talk to the manufacturer itself, and then they force the local guys to do what they're supposed to.)

[MosherIV]

Fluke would not sell me parts direclty in UK. I had to go through their authorized parts distributors.
Ask or look uo who are Fluke parts distributors in your country.

Alternatively, ebay for a spares or repair one.

Another alternative, you know which pins are open circuit, carefully measure to see if you can find where the break is. If you are lucky, it might just be where the pin joins the board and you may be able to reflow it or use silver paint to re make the connection

[Armadillo]

Whether it's a Fluke, Flook, Brymen, Uni-T or Harbor Fright    meter,

if you're prodding inside a tube filled gadget, then a high voltage probe or some form of attenuation is a must have

SHTF is best read as a peaky 100 volts,  rather than a nano burst of 10000v +++   

If it's a burst, wouldn't it be better to verify other functions of the meter right after the resistor network........ before buying the network?

Do you think other parts will sustain that kind of a K.O. blow, particularly the ASIC?

[Electro Detective]

My point is whether or not it's a fixed and verified 100% working Fluke 187, or a higher Cat rated Brymen or Amprobe etc

when poking around in tube gear or TV circuits or similar it's a better bet to have an attenuating probe or circuit of some sort, rather than risk taking out either an expensive meter or a 'basic' sacrificial cheap cannon fodder meter (which may survive better lol) due to a fast unforeseen transient, or pulsed signal/s exceeding the meter's dynamic range   

i.e. I have no problem during a troubleshoot if my meter indicates 4.5v or 45v in the presence of 450v using an attenuator,
same deal when using add on clamp meters, 1ma = 1 amp etc
 

[Ian.M]

Why would you expect meter trouble making measurements with a 1KV DC rated meter and probes in circuits with supply rails up to 500V?  Linear circuits, even with inductive loads wont have more than double the supply voltage at the waveform peak.  I'm assuming you aren't *STUPID* so don't try to measure the collector, drain or plate voltage of chopper circuits and class C amplifier stages, or break the circuit to a large inductor carrying significant DC current while the meter is across it. Of course one also needs to take adequate care of your own safety but this discussion is already way off track into the long grass . . . ..

On the rare occasions we needed to measure voltages over about 800V in the repair shop, our first recourse was the Avo 8 which had a 2.5KV DC range, or for over 2KV we had a dedicated EHT meter that read up to 25KV.    By not pushing the limits of our meters' ratings, we never killed any Flukes or even lesser meters due to overvoltage. Unless you repair CRT scopes, arcade monitors or the like, or work on HVDC power devices and circuits, with the commercial death of the conventional CRT, one seldom needs the capability to measure voltages above one KV any more.

[Electro Detective]

I am familiar with all those drills, and have an AVO 8 mkV for the higher 2 KV stuff that has a pop out breaker if things get nasty

OP states the meter rated at 1000v Cat 111 got fried at 450 volts, maybe not because of the meter but because of a fault or something amiss in the DUT. 

If OP goes back in to the same scenario with a new or fixed meter, he may be back here again at this post a lot poorer.

This is why I suggest he may want to invest in some attenuation   

[Armadillo]

He did say, blue MOV read open.
Linear amp section we all know unlikely, but switch mode section possible especially how the 450v is generated? Is it common voltage in USA?
OP said 3rd capacitor... no ideal if the caps are in cascade or the actual part of the amp circuit involved or how 500vdc is generated?

Anyway, likely is a defective resistor array network but fluke lifetime warranty is effectively 10 years, or 7 years from end of manufacture.

It is worthy to note that fluke qualifies that protection devices can be impaired, this implies from previous owner likely. Probably that's why the need to establish original ownership.

in any case, it would not be wise to say that blue MOV read open to them.