Yamaha rx-v667 HDMI fault

[hcardle]

Nice forum.
I have a 667 that started to shut down when i turned up the volume. So I sent it to the shop for repair. Similar problem as others, faulty capacitor replaced and now full volume.
Unfortunately, now I have no HDMI out. So I take it back to the shop and he has been fiddling for weeks. He says it only works with 576p input.
I suggested switching off the Mon-Chk so it wouldn't look at tv resolution but just pass through all signals. Don't know if that worked yet.
Any other ideas?
Does the unit need to be reset somehow?
Look forward to some advice.

[wraper]

Just a guess. I've seen this with other devices. As this likely happens regardless which HDMI input is used, I would look at the output which is only one. While hot plugging HDMI, one of the  TMDS transmitters could be partially damaged (blown one out of two in a differential pair). In such case I measure resistance from each of the TMDS outputs to GND at high resistance range range set on the multimeter, like 40 megaohms. If one of them have abnormally low resistance compared to the others, means that transmitter is blown. At low resolution this still may work. The other possibility is something damaged related to SPD lines, which causes impossibility to read EDID. In such case case it also may still work at some low resolution, depending on the hardware used. Of course one should check if there is no damage in HDMI connector and try changing the cable first.

[hcardle]

Thanks. I will pass that on to tech.

[hcardle]

Well nothing from Tech yet. I'm inclined to tell him I will come pick it up and take it somewhere else. His communication skills are rubbish.

[hcardle]

Well I phoned the tech today and he tried the one thing I suggested last Tuesday and it didn't work. He hasn't tried anything else yet and he didnt call me to let me know. This is 7 weeks now.
So today he promised to give it some priority in the next few days and he will phone me and let me know status.
I wont hold my breath.

[Rasz]

Your expectations might be a "little bit" unrealistic. This piece of kit is ~$150 used 100% working, so Im guessing you want to pay less than that, while on a 2016 subprime's poster boy we sell our resources to china below cost prison island with super inflated cost of living.

Person fixing this for you is not doing this as a primary job, its a hobby paying less than dole bludging, you should be glad anyone even looked into it.

[hcardle]

Expectations are not unrealistic, if someone tells me they are going to do something then that is what I expect, nothing less. The value is irrelevant.
Its not a "favour" this is a business contract that we have entered into that he has not carried out as promised. He is in breach. Apart from that I expect him to keep me informed no matter what the outcome is, if he cant or wont fix it then just tell me.
You might be happy to be fobbed off but i am most certainly not.
If you have any helpful suggestions that might help solve the fault then that would be great.
By the way this kit goes for $300-$400 here in Australia, if you know where I can get it for $150 i would be please to know. I might get one board for that.

[Rasz]

Its common sense, unreasonable to expect someone in AU to sit couple of hours over sophisticated piece of electronics for ~?$100? Would be totally different if you sent it to someone in Malaysia, Philippines or even Taiwan. I imagine anything more than straight capacitors/fuse/broken cable goes at the bottom of a pile.

What I can suggest is either find a friend/family willing to ship replacement/similar unit from US (where it can be bought for $100 on craiglist/~$150 ebay), or get it back, organize multimeter, soldering iron and make new thread where we can help you troubleshoot it.

[Rasz]

and just to prove a point I made a search for 667 when replying to you first time and added few auctions to watch list, this one just ended
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122424071061

~$158 with shipping

[mzacharias]

There are four different versions of the RX-V667 digital (HDMI) board; they vary according to market.

Obviously, "U" is U.S. market. I don't really know which board goes to each of the other markets. My guess is they all would work, but there might be some differences in video decoding, etc.

The part numbers are:

WU432000 U
WU432100 CTKAL
WU432200 R
WU432300 BGF

[hcardle]

Well, i picked the amp up yesterday, not fixed and he didn't call me as promised and he didn't do most of the things i suggested. All he did was strip it and check all connections. So i get it home and get out the Service Manual and start to run through the Self Diagnostics. Within 10 minutes I have found the problem that this guy couldn't find in 8 weeks. Failed the Digital PCB check C1-4 HDMI dual receiver (IC3). SiL9233ACTU.
Unsurprisingly also failed some of the loop back tests
Ebay has these chips ex china but delivery is long, anyone got any sources of these?

[hcardle]

So I think the "A" in CTKAL is for Australia.

[hcardle]

Anyone know where I can get a SiL9233ACTU other than china.
Delivery time is horrible

[mzacharias]

Anyone know where I can get a SiL9233ACTU other than china.
Delivery time is horrible

Yamaha would probably have it - their part number would be in the service manual.

[hcardle]

Thanks, I ordered one $5 +$25 freight 3-4 days. Wish me luck.

[wraper]

Do you have a hot air station? Otherwise you won't be able to remove it because of the center pad soldered to the PCB. Except if there are a lot of vias not covered with a solder mask in that pad, so you can try heating it from opposite side.

[mzacharias]

Do you have a hot air station? Otherwise you won't be able to remove it because of the center pad soldered to the PCB. Except if there are a lot of vias not covered with a solder mask in that pad, so you can try heating it from opposite side.

I'm pretty sure that is not the case here. I've replaced many of the "IC71" HDMI transmitter chips and the area underneath the chip is masked and not soldered. Looking at the service data, the HDMI input IC3 circuit board area looks the same. I have not replaced one of these however.

Unfortunately, the OP may have ordered the wrong item to fix his problem. The transmitter chip IC71 is a high failure item. The HDMI receiver chip is not.

[hcardle]

Thanks for the tips. I can get it changed at work. I do hope I got the right part, when I ran the self diagnosis test c1-4 i2c I got this 001000xxx that indicates ic3 faulty and ic71 is ok. Fingers crossed

[wraper]

I'm pretty sure that is not the case here. I've replaced many of the "IC71" HDMI transmitter chips and the area underneath the chip is masked and not soldered.

Then this would be a design error as the datasheet states it must be soldered to keep acceptable chip temperature.

[mzacharias]

I'm pretty sure that is not the case here. I've replaced many of the "IC71" HDMI transmitter chips and the area underneath the chip is masked and not soldered.

Then this would be a design error as the datasheet states it must be soldered to keep acceptable chip temperature.

I'm almost certain the SiL9134CTU doesn't even have a metal area on the bottom of the chip. I've replaced them before using only conventional soldering equipment. It's been at least a year ago though, and on a quick search I cannot find a proper datasheet, only RFQ's and an old sales flyer with no actual physical specs.

[wraper]

I'm pretty sure that is not the case here. I've replaced many of the "IC71" HDMI transmitter chips and the area underneath the chip is masked and not soldered.

Then this would be a design error as the datasheet states it must be soldered to keep acceptable chip temperature.

I'm almost certain the SiL9134CTU doesn't even have a metal area on the bottom of the chip. I've replaced them before using only conventional soldering equipment. It's been at least a year ago though, and on a quick search I cannot find a proper datasheet, only RFQ's and an old sales flyer with no actual physical specs.

Chip in question is SiL9233ACTU.

The SiI9233A receiver is packaged in a 144-pin, 20 mm x 20 mm TQFP package with an ExposedPad™ (ePad™) that is
used for the electrical ground of the device and for improved thermal transfer characteristics. The ePad dimensions are
4.445 mm x 4.0604 mm ±0.15 mm. Soldering the ePad to the ground plane of the PCB is required to meet package
power dissipation requirements at full speed operation, and to correctly connect the chip circuitry to electrical ground.

[hcardle]

I'll let you know when I get it off.

[hcardle]

Actually, it just dawned on me to look at the PCB in the Service Manual. P84 and 85 don't show anything to solder the ePad to. The manual could be incorrect. I wonder if some thermal past to conduct to the board would help.
Will definitely make it easier.

[hcardle]

Well that didn't work. New IC3 fitted but self test results are the same. I'm pretty sure it was correctly replaced and tests are identical.
Incidentally the SiL9233ACTU DOES have an Epad. There are 5 litle through holes on the underside that  connect to it. I imagine they connect to ground plane.
Back to the drawing board.
I'm getting a fail at the C1-4 self test. This checks the I2C (inter integrated route) bus line connection. The status byte is 001000---. The 1 indicating IC3. The rightmost 0 is the IC71 status which is indicating no error.
mzacharias, you mention that you have replaced many of the IC71 chips, could this cause my problem?

[mzacharias]

Well that didn't work. New IC3 fitted but self test results are the same. I'm pretty sure it was correctly replaced and tests are identical.
Incidentally the SiL9233ACTU DOES have an Epad. There are 5 litle through holes on the underside that  connect to it. I imagine they connect to ground plane.
Back to the drawing board.
I'm getting a fail at the C1-4 self test. This checks the I2C (inter integrated route) bus line connection. The status byte is 001000---. The 1 indicating IC3. The rightmost 0 is the IC71 status which is indicating no error.
mzacharias, you mention that you have replaced many of the IC71 chips, could this cause my problem?

My test routine generally consisted of checking whether the HDMI flag would light up on the front display indicating it was receiving an HDMI source; if so, and still no output to the monitor, then I replaced the HDMI transmitter. Probably about a 90% success rate. Since I was an Authorized Yamaha servicer, I used original parts. Since retiring, the only one I tried was purchased from China via eBay, and did not fix. The water was muddy as to whether I had received a counterfeit part, or simply diagnosed the problem wrong. The repair did not proceed further due to mounting cost and uncertainty. When I bought them from Yamaha they were under 10.00 for the part alone. Yamaha's retail for the part in the U.S. would be around 20.00 plus freight.

So the SiL9233ACTU was soldered or spot-welded underneath? I haven't replaced one of those, but I was unpleasantly surprised to discover a similar IC in a Pioneer only AFTER they were happy to sell the (unreplaceable I thought at the time) part.

How did you get it off and make new connection underneath? Forgive me if I seem un-knowledgeable on replacing this type - it's only because I am...

[hcardle]

I gave the board to our electronics assembly lab. They have all the gear including hot air station. They did say it was difficult to get off and they destroyed the old component. They also said the quality of the circuit board was poor. They are used to Mil Std parts though. The Epad was soldered from back side of board, there are 5 very small through holes. This is done blind of course and a fair amount of heat would be required as it is probably connected to ground plane. They did say that if it did not work I could try to reheat that part. I would imagine that even if this was poorly connected it would still successfully pass a self test at low power. All of the other soldered joints look perfect.
When I do the loop back tests HDMI 3 and 4 fail which also supports IC3 fault.
I might have a look at other components around IC3, particularly the transistors and diodes on input. Failing that try replacing IC71 then I am done.
Options I am looking at then are either Marantz NR1607 or YAMAHA RX-AS710. I gather you favour Yamaha over Marantz.

[mzacharias]

I gave the board to our electronics assembly lab. They have all the gear including hot air station. They did say it was difficult to get off and they destroyed the old component. They also said the quality of the circuit board was poor. They are used to Mil Std parts though. The Epad was soldered from back side of board, there are 5 very small through holes. This is done blind of course and a fair amount of heat would be required as it is probably connected to ground plane. They did say that if it did not work I could try to reheat that part. I would imagine that even if this was poorly connected it would still successfully pass a self test at low power. All of the other soldered joints look perfect.
When I do the loop back tests HDMI 3 and 4 fail which also supports IC3 fault.
I might have a look at other components around IC3, particularly the transistors and diodes on input. Failing that try replacing IC71 then I am done.
Options I am looking at then are either Marantz NR1607 or YAMAHA RX-AS710. I gather you favour Yamaha over Marantz.

I definitely prefer Yamaha. There is a continuity of design and troubleshooting technique for more than the past twenty years. They were the first to be serious about built-in diagnostic software, and even though some of it is kinda over my head, it's still consistently useful. Doesn't replace old-school troubleshooting, but it's a big help.

Also, they try to provide repair parts longer than the others, and in the U.S. at least, take much better care or their customers when they do have a problem. As an authorized servicer, I virtually had the last word on what was necessary to take care of my client; the decisions weren't left totally up to some bean-counter. For the most part, they are still this way. I wish I were still part of the network.

[hcardle]

I ended up taking it to another shop. They quoted $820 for a replacement HDMI board. He did say he resoldered about 30 pins on the chip I had replaced but it still didn't work.
I took it home and ordered the Yamaha RX-AS710 from Excell HIFI. good price.
http://www.excelhifi.com.au/

I will do the self diagnosis on the old kit once again to see if there is any change. I might try changing IC71, Sil9134CTU.
I might keep my eye open for second hand board too. Only problem for me is freight out of USA is horrible so best bet is to find a local one perhaps with a different fault.

[hcardle]

So I have now got the new Yamaha RX-AS710 set up and it is very good. Bluetooth, wireless, internet radio and all that. Sounds fine too.
So i have gone back and run the self diagnosis on the old 667 again. Now it passes the Digital PCB comms and bus line connection. So changing IC3 has made a difference.
Now when I run the self test it fails some of the loop back tests. V2.1 which appears to be a bi-directional HDMI check, it fails IN2 check. All other inputs are OK. Test V2.2 loop back appears to be single direction INTO the HDMI inputs and OUT of the IC71. These all fail.
What is the difference between these 2 tests?
I'm suspecting IC71, any opinions?

[hcardle]

Well, on a best guess i have ordered the SiI9134CTU. I will let you know.