EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Other Equipment & Products => Topic started by: mcinque on June 17, 2018, 04:29:46 pm
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I purchased a "budget" 6 liters GT sonic ultrasound cleaner with drain tap and heater.
My choice was for a budget one because I will use it it only 10-15 times a year.
GT Sonic seemed a good choice between incredibly cheap anonymous brands and expensive known manufacturers.
Well, the fact is that for me they don't know what they do.
#1 They sticked the temperature sensor under the tank only with a rotten adhesive aluminium tape. As soon the tank reaches just 60°C the poor glue on the tape looses its grip, the sensor fell down and doesn't touch anymore with the tank: the temperature goes up uncontrollately. Possibile risk of fires after that the solution inside boils and evaporates completely.
I properly removed that and glued with proper thermal glue.
2# The drain tap was poor quality, the sphere inside rusted after 1 hour.
I changed it.
3# They sticked an iron drain pipe under a inox steel tank :palm:. After 1 week of distilled water inside the tank, it rusted and all the rust came off the drain filter, contaminating all the solution inside.
I have no solution for this. The only way could be to use antifreeze liquid instead water but I wonder how it reacts with ultrasound cleaners liquids.
Lesson learnt: for an ultrasound cleaner, go for an incredibly cheap one without heater and drain tap or stay with proper brands.
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Could try to use a rust removing solution, then attempt to coat the pipe with something inert?
Or replace the drain cover with a rubber stopper and string.
Poor design for sure.
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Could try to use a rust removing solution, then attempt to coat the pipe with something inert?
Or replace the drain cover with a rubber stopper and string.
Poor design for sure.
Yes, something like evaporust would do the job removing rust inside but I really don't know how to coat the pipe internally.
Should be galvanized I guess. To try removing it I should disconnect the heaters before, than the transducers and finally cut the silicon sealant that keeps the tank sticked with the chassis.
Maybe some spray zinc would do the job but I fear that with temperature and ultrasounds it will come off. I think it should be properly galvanized by immersion in melted zinc.
Probably sealing the drain it's the best solution like you suggested but I can't believe this crap.
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#1 is poor design.
#2 is poor materials. If you don't really stay on top of your QC and incoming parts inspection, its not unknown for scummier low-bid suppliers to substitute other materials, especially if your buyer is pushing them hard on pricing. The ball in the valve probably was mild steel as it rusted so quickly.
#3 may be poor materials or may be your fault. If you fitted a replacement valve with a brass, cast iron or galvanised steel body it is your fault - electrolytic corrosion due to dissimilar metals. Its unlikely the pipe is ordinary mild steel. It would probably be showing traces of surface rust on its exterior if it was. If it is poor materials, its quite likely the filter end fitting was made from the wrong grade of stainless - recycled cheap cutlery or similar and the filter wan't passivated after drilling the holes. The dissimilar grades of stainless in contact + an anaerobic wet environment under whatever dirt had settled on it can lead to rapid crevice corrosion and rusting of areas depleted of surface chromium. If it can be dismantled, you can check the pipe interior for pitting and rust, and clean up and electrolytically passivate the tank end fitting. If it cant easily be dismantled, if you can take the valve off, you can probably inspect the pipe interior with a small dental mirror or similar + a white SMD LED on two fine magnet wires taped to it for illumination.
Worst case: if the pipe interior is badly pitted, you may need to replace the whole drain in silver-soldered copper & brass with a thin PTFE gasket between it and the tank (both sides) to electrically isolate it so it doesn't corrode due to electrolysis.
Also, I wouldn't leave aqueous cleaning solutions in it when not in use. As soon as its cooled down, drain it into a plastic can, and when you refill it, wash out the can to get rid of the sludge that settled out.
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Worst case: if the pipe interior is badly pitted, you may need to replace the whole drain in silver-soldered copper & brass with a thin PTFE gasket between it and the tank (both sides) to electrically isolate it so it doesn't corrode due to electrolysis.
or use a bit of PVC pipe.
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PVC isn't an option if you ever want to use it with solvents.
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ahh true :)
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If it is poor materials, its quite likely the filter end fitting was made from the wrong grade of stainless - recycled cheap cutlery or similar and the filter wan't passivated after drilling the holes. The dissimilar grades of stainless in contact + an anaerobic wet environment under whatever dirt had settled on it can lead to rapid crevice corrosion and rusting of areas depleted of surface chromium.
Probably.
Also, I wouldn't leave aqueous cleaning solutions in it when not in use. As soon as its cooled down, drain it into a plastic can, and when you refill it, wash out the can to get rid of the sludge that settled out.
It's annoying :( I thought I could do like at work with a branson unit: 365d with water inside. But, now that you pointed out, that unit has a plastic drain tap...
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I'll call them smart.They know how to make cheap stuff that breaks after set timeperiod.
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I'll call them smart.They know how to make cheap stuff that breaks after set timeperiod.
we have different opinions about cleverness.
A product that stops working after warranty can be considered some kind of "smart" planned obsolescence but a product that breaks after 1 week is definitely not a smart idea.
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Can you return it? I think I would try, the thing is obviously not fit for purpose.
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I'd like it. But even if I purchased it on eBay from a shop that said to ship from Italy (on Amazon there were only foreign vendors and I was forced to choose eBay just because of that detail, I was trying a better management of any possibile issue with the purchase), after some days the purchase I understood that the shipment was not made from Italy.
When it arived I saw it was shipped from China. Of course seller abused of the "shipped from" field, but we all know that eBay doesn't care.
I can not ship it back to China because:
- I contacted the seller about the issues (drain tap rust and temperature sensor). I fixed it and I thought it was fine at that point, only until the month after. I accepted to fix it since I paid a low price, so now I can not send it back. I took the risk.
- even If I had refused to repair it, a return shipment to China would have been extremely expensive from here.
I learnt the lesson. This was not a proper fraud because they shipped me the object and they provided me "support" a (a partial refund), but it's some sort of scam for me: a product bad engineered, which can cause fire, that rusts prematurely sold as a good product, shipped from China instead Italy. They lied to me.
Just for personal culture I'm following a UK YouTuber that lives in Shenzen since 11 years and explains their culture, their way of living and their common way to do business selling expecially with cheap imitations, and I found in my purchase the behavior that he tells about most electronic parts and devices Shenzen sellers.
Personally I don't like that culture and way to do business.
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It's probably too late now, but you could have filed a claim with ebay that the item was not as described and there is a very good chance you would have received a refund.
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Chargeback, shitpost everywhere, chuck it in the trash.
To be honest if I buy something from aliexpress and it turns out to be shit they always side with me and refund instantly. eBay, not so much. Never thought EBay would rank lower than Ali.
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I don't think I'd chuck it, it seems it won't be too difficult to re-engineer it to fix the shortcomings, but I would still try to get a refund. The purchaser of a brand new piece of equipment shouldn't have to re-engineer it to make it serve its most basic purpose.
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SIX liters? Any half decent cleaner that size will cost much, much more than the $77 online for the GT. Sometimes size isn't everything. It takes a serious transducer or more to get a decent enough amount of energy in the water. My little cleaner was about $150 and holds a whopping one liter. But it puts out a lot of power.
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SIX liters? Any half decent cleaner that size will cost much, much more than the $77 online for the GT. Sometimes size isn't everything. It takes a serious transducer or more to get a decent enough amount of energy in the water. My little cleaner was about $150 and holds a whopping one liter. But it puts out a lot of power.
The power is ok, and generally speaking it could do the job fine if it was built more decently. I know that well known brands cost another price but I'm not asking for huge quality and transducer life for everyday use, I ask only to clean a piece without burning down the garage and a unit that can last for 4/5 years using it 1 time a month (I'm asking for ~50 washings of 30 minutes each, not huge numbers). I am aware that I cannot pay 100 and have something that worth 1000 or even just 200.
I don't think I'd chuck it, it seems it won't be too difficult to re-engineer it to fix the shortcomings, but I would still try to get a refund. The purchaser of a brand new piece of equipment shouldn't have to re-engineer it to make it serve its most basic purpose.
I will not trash it, I will try to fix it, it's not rocket science.
About the refund, for my way of doing business, I accepted the unit the moment I accepted the partial refund: for me I'm not in right to ask for more now.
This post is here only to inform other potential customers how GT Sonic ultrasonic cleaners are made.
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This post is here only to inform other potential customers how GT Sonic ultrasonic cleaners are made.
Thank you :)
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Update: also the metal basket rusts. It is not made of inox steel and they tried to coat it with some chrome-like finish that - as you can see - it doesn't do the job.
This product is a toy.
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Stange, my don't get any rust and i have them for more a year with solvent always inside.
I don't know about the construction because i never dissamble but the outside looks different from mine
My are the P series: http://www.gtsonic.net/prod_view.aspx?TypeId=96&Id=202&FId=t3:96:3 (http://www.gtsonic.net/prod_view.aspx?TypeId=96&Id=202&FId=t3:96:3)
I have P3 and P9
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It's possible that it's a counterfeit unit. It's hard to say, but it's not uncommon to find copies of semi-reputable Chinese brands in addition to copies of Western brands.
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Stange, my don't get any rust and i have them for more a year with solvent always inside.
P series are another series, completely different, this have less electronics, electromechanical timer and heater and simple electronics for ultrasound generation. This model it's their "entry level".
By the way, What kind of solvent? If it is something not water based, I guess it's quite normal that doesn't make rust any metal surface.
It's possible that it's a counterfeit unit. It's hard to say, but it's not uncommon to find copies of semi-reputable Chinese brands in addition to copies of Western brands.
Yes, it's possible. If it's counterfeit, they successfully copied also the label fonts keeping the same chinglish "please read the instruction before using" instead "please read the instructions before use" that I see on the official website images; this is the kind of detail that low level chinese counterfeits usually doesn't take in consideration.
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P series are another series, completely different, this have less electronics, electromechanical timer and heater and simple electronics for ultrasound generation. This model it's their "entry level".
By the way, What kind of solvent? If it is something not water based, I guess it's quite normal that doesn't make rust any metal surface.
Distilled Water + 20% of PCB cleaner
One time i used tap water on the 9L version, still once...
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Distilled Water + 20% of PCB cleaner
One time i used tap water on the 9L version, still once...
So, this leads me to conclude that:
A. my unit is a cheap counterfeit, OR
B. they have no or poor consistency/quality control: some units are fine and some not.
If you could look how the unit is assembled inside this would clarify, expecially the temperature sensor.
Of course since they are two different versions, there is the possibility that mine (the entry level model) is manufactured in a different way but transducers should be the same.
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For A, its possible someone is the factory is running a 'ghost' shift*, which would explain exactly correct labels etc. but inferior materials used for higher value parts subject to tight inventory controls.
Also, you may start with distilled water, but once you wash anything in it that isn't extremely clean to start with, the ionic contaminates it picks up will make it conductive, and allow electrolytic corrosion to proceed at a significant rate.
* Ghost shift: http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/05/01/8375455/index.htm (http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/05/01/8375455/index.htm)
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For A, its possible someone is the factory is running a 'ghost' shift*, which would explain exactly correct labels etc. but inferior materials used for higher value parts subject to tight inventory controls.
Yes, it is. And the only way to avoid it it's to purchase from an official distributor.
Unfortunately I didn't find any of it in EU otherwise I would had purchased from official channel.
It's rare for me to purchase from eBay (too much inconsistency, different specs than declared, even the same seller will send you different batches from different manufacturers for the same component) so I try to avoid that channel but this time the story gone in this way. As I said, lesson learnt.
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For A, its possible someone is the factory is running a 'ghost' shift*, which would explain exactly correct labels etc. but inferior materials used for higher value parts subject to tight inventory controls.
Yes, it is. And the only way to avoid it it's to purchase from an official distributor.
Unfortunately I didn't find any of it in EU otherwise I would had purchased from official channel.
It's rare for me to purchase from eBay (too much inconsistency, different specs than declared, even the same seller will send you different batches from different manufacturers for the same component) so I try to avoid that channel but this time the story gone in this way. As I said, lesson learnt.
I buy mine from GearBest, priority line (no duties tax)
But i saw some on aliexpress, eu warehouse
Also you got other products like: https://www.eleshop.nl/ultrasonic-cleaner-2l-met-sweep-functie.html (https://www.eleshop.nl/ultrasonic-cleaner-2l-met-sweep-functie.html)