3D printers : your experiences and current State of the technology

[free_electron]

i'm in the market for a 3d printer. budget 2000 to 2500$ ( preferrably lower )

My 'ideal' requirements
- turnkey  ( i know that is a long shot , and they all need a bit of tweaking , but what i mean is : i am not interested in something i need to assemble, calibrate, debug the software, kludge around with contraptions , finding all the files and required libraries on the internet, discover i got the wrong version of lib x , the wrong version python or other mucking about.  Uncrate it, plug it in , launch setup.exe and it should be ready to roll. )

- Possible two extruder heads so i can make support structures out of water soluble material

- Accurate. meaning if i load a cube that is 10.1 mm a side it comes out as 10.1 mm. i've seen some software that loads stl files and has now way to measure eanything or scale numerically. that is a no-fly

- Easily reads in industry standard files such as solidworks or step to postprocess into the file to drive the machine.
- I am after a machine that i can work with, not work at , if you know what i mean. My goal is not to tinker with 3d printers , but to produce parts with them.

If you have a machine i'd like your input. What do like about it , what do you not like about it. What do you hate about it. How easy is the software, how frequently updated , bugfixed etc ? How reliable is it ?

[TopLoser]

I gave up trying to get anything useful out of them.

I just use shapeways for everything now, incredible range of useful materials and you end up with parts you can actually use and that last.

[free_electron]

ouch. not what i wanted to hear , but i kinda expected such an answer ... i've talked to two different 3d printing user groups and it's the endless story of how they like to rebuild their machines as opposed to build something with their machines...

i don't want to build a car , i want to drive it !  (ok, i know , i am building cars these days... but that's a different story )

[electr_peter]

Mentioned requirements are really steep for 3D machines. I would suggest to use 3D printing services from reputable supplier. Why? Because:

• turnkey - not today I guess. MakerBot has some new machines that claims low maintenance, but reviews prove they are awful (massive issues with HW/SW...).
• two extruder head with different materials -> myriad of issues
• accurate dimensions in absolute terms - 3D printers are only accurate in relative terms in my books. SW can take shrinking/expansion into calculations to some extent though
• industry file formats - depends on SW quality
• simple and low maintenance - reviews of cheap, semi cheap and mid-range printers say otherwise.

My point - 3D machines are fiddly and if you are not printing massive quantities, it is probably not worth the effort. Printing services would do better mostly due to their experience (their are printing all the time) and better 3D printers.

[tggzzz]

Will all your pieces be made from the same material?

If so that may reduce the number of machines to consider. If not, then you will have to get multiple machines - or use one of the many fabrication houses.

As far as I can see with amateur machines, people spend as much time fettling as producing parts.

[johnwa]

I cannot really comment on the different brands of machine - I have been looking into getting one myself. However, one thing to be aware of is that some manufacturers appear to be following the inkjet printer model, and hardware locking the filament cartridges so that you have to buy genuine replacements. Before purchasing a machine, it would be advisable to check you are not going to end up with one of these.

[Frost]

i'm in the market for a 3d printer. budget 2000 to 2500$ ( preferrably lower )

My 'ideal' requirements
- turnkey  ( i know that is a long shot , and they all need a bit of tweaking , but what i mean is : i am not interested in something i need to assemble, calibrate, debug the software, kludge around with contraptions , finding all the files and required libraries on the internet, discover i got the wrong version of lib x , the wrong version python or other mucking about.  Uncrate it, plug it in , launch setup.exe and it should be ready to roll. )

You are looking for Stratasys, but they are not "compatible"
to meet your budget

[Mechatrommer]

i am not interested in something i need to assemble, calibrate, debug the software, kludge around with contraptions , finding all the files and required libraries on the internet, discover i got the wrong version of lib x , the wrong version python or other mucking about.  Uncrate it, plug it in , launch setup.exe and it should be ready to roll. )

i also hate mucking around with stuffs i'm not familiar with, but with my diy 3d printer when i first got it, its easier done than what you've said. repertier host and marlin FW alone is all it takes, no wrong phyton no wrong lib etc.

- Accurate. meaning if i load a cube that is 10.1 mm a side it comes out as 10.1 mm.

for the budget you've stated... you are dreaming. even the half million dollar printer i doubt it can do that. you should go for factory moulding, cnc, laser and all the mucking around etc to get the precision, even there is nothing in the world that can meet your ±0 tolerance precision. furthermore in 3d printer FDM domain, my diy printer is around ±0.3 - ±0.5mm tolerace, to get the size i need to post machine it. maybe the half a million printer is around ±0.1mm? it will print your 10.1mm cube 10.2mm, still a fail. good luck finding tolerance spec for any cheap or expensive printer.

i've seen some software that loads stl files and has now way to measure eanything or scale numerically. that is a no-fly

open source repertier host can scale the stl to your heart desire.

If you have a machine i'd like your input. What do like about it , what do you not like about it. What do you hate about it. How easy is the software, how frequently updated , bugfixed etc ? How reliable is it ?

since my diy printer is out of your class i dont think to give a review for you except that i like to mention, after the initial setup/tinkering with FW and learning the "dummies on how to 3d print stuffs" esp abs and pla properties and behaviour, my printer now is minimal setup maintenance. basically just preparing blue tape, leveling bed, homing the head and then print wait to completion. i guess the more expensive turnkey and ready built also do the same probably just lesser.

my point is... just like normal inkjet printer, you have to know what you are doing, feeding paper, check nozzle clog, cleaning etc, dont feed the printer with nasty type of stuff/paper/filament if you dont want to jam etc, thats kind of maintenance and knowledge stuff. may i ask how many people here know how to inkjet print "color accurate" photo? i suspect its only very few because everybody are happy with their "color inaccurate" printer they think it is "accurate", hence they dont have to work for their printer. i have to work on my inkjet printer to get color accurate if i dont want to spend half a million dollar machine, heck half a million dollar machine still will not met my color accuracy spec, i will still need to work on it if i have one.

[Mechatrommer]

i've talked to two different 3d printing user groups and it's the endless story of how they like to rebuild their machines as opposed to build something with their machines...
i don't want to build a car , i want to drive it !  (ok, i know , i am building cars these days... but that's a different story )

yes i'm currently building another 3d printer with my existing 3d printer, not that my existing printer is not good, its just i need bigger. if i'm buying that size of big, thats a half a million machine, so lets the poorman do its job... but for the record, i already print few usefull "build something with their machines" stuff with my existing small printer. expecting accuracy and all the mumble jumble whistle in budget printer is like expecting a ferrari to cost the same as budget car. and producing dimension accurate subject is not it, is not in FDM 3D printer world, just like expecting a budget car (or even ferrari) to have a shovel function.

As far as I can see with amateur machines, people spend as much time fettling as producing parts.

what i see is people with their own printer printing their dick on and some unartistic sculptures, toys that can cost tenth in local store. whats with all this people? why they even care to own a diy 3d printer in the first place? 

[mjkuwp]

I have a Printrbot metal simple.  had it for two weeks now.  It was a present to my 9-yr old daughter due to her getting interested in this after her school got makerbots.  I came really close to getting Printrbots newest dual-extruder machine but decided I did not have enough free time to work with that machine.

The Printrbot is a really well built machine and is pretty easy to run.  She runs it now.  She makes the models in Tinkercad and she can go all the way from that to printing by herself.  of course this is possible so long as the slicer settings are left alone.

I will use it mostly for fixtures related to electronics and maybe the occasional case or two.  however, for finished projects I prefer to have a professional case with proper flame rated plastic.

The setup is fairly easy but definitely not consumer grade.  Need to download Cura or Repetier software to do the loading of models and slice the models into g-code.  Have to load configuration settings and enter a z-offset manually.

The biggest problem I have with it is that the filament does not always unwind really smoothly from the spool.  we have to check on the prints each 5 or 10 minutes.  Naturally we will soon look to 3D print one of the spool holder designs that are on Thingiverse and similar sites.

I think there will be time spent fiddling with slicer settings but the machine itself looks 'simple' enough to have good reliability if I keep it clean.

[free_electron]

I can accept a certain amount of tinkering.
I know you need to clean the glas plate and level the platform. I know a heated bed works best and you need a glass plate and hairspray , or the blue painters tape to prevent curling.
I also know that drafts across the machine (cold wind) are a non-no. So a nice enclosure would be required.

As for precision. Half a millimeter is fine , even a millimeter is fine. When iwrote that number i should have given a tolerance. When i say 10.1 mm i do not want to see 10 or 10.2. Actually i can make something that is accurate to half a millimeter.

So if i say i want 10.5 here id be happy if i get something that is between 10 and 11 mm

There seems to be an i flux of new players on the market. Even dremel has a machine now, and there are the da-vinci machines . They 'look' turnkey, question is: are they , how well are they supported.

I keep reading good reviews of the lulz bot.

I a kt opposed against using cartridges. I dont care that it costs a bit more , as long as the filament is consistent in quality and the end result is right. Id rather pay 10 more for a reel than have to restart a job five time because of filamnet problems , clogging nozzles and other crap.

Other things that ti k me off : printers sold with parts in em that were printed ... Really ?  Ok if they were printed so you cant tell, but ive seen machines with gears in em that are clearly printed by a crappy machine, you can see remnants of the raft, the teeth are all wonky , it jams sometimes, they went at it with sandpaper ...

Like that 'up' machine where the first thing you do is print abunch of addons to make the machine 'better'. Really ? That thing has sold for so long and so many units they can't afford to have those bits professionally extruded ?

Keep the replies coming.

Now, i am not limited to filament printers. Liquid would work as well.

The work would be mainly to print small prototypes of plastic pieces that go in an existing enclosure or will become the enclosure. Mainly the problem : have circuitbord, need case.  Or have case and board but need support piece or endcap here.

[mjkuwp]

......
I know you need to clean the glas plate and level the platform. I know a heated bed works best and you need a glass plate and hairspray , or the blue painters tape to prevent curling......

The Printrbot (and possibly others..?) has a sensor that reads the height of the platform, which is sheet steel.  It moves to three corners and wiggles the Z axis until the sensor reads the platform and it adjusts printing references based on this.  In this way it is more foolproof and there is no required procedure to level the bed.  I can see the Z axis moving to compensate for the bed so I have a plan that eventually I will do a level procedure to eliminate this extra movement.

I bought the Printrbot based on recommendation from the guy that runs printers at the local Children's museum.  he has both Makerbots and Printrbots and he says the Printrbots are a lot more reliable.  at the Milwaukee Maker Faire, I  noticed several of these running in their booth all weekend long.

I use blue painter's tape and have replaced the tape each half-dozen or dozen prints.  Heated bed is optional ( I do not have this) and is used for ABS prints and/or to keep the first layers from curling up.  You can also print the part on a raft so that the curled bottom edges are on the raft and not on your part but this is a slightly advanced topic.  The slicer software can add the raft to the part for you.

The resolution of the printers is 0.2mm and I would think accuracy of the machine would be quite high but there is the issue of plastic shrink to consider.  I have not yet done a print where I had to check this. 

Filament is generally 1.75mm PLA and around $20 for a spool.  Main thing is to keep this dry - it ships with dessicant and I have heard of people using food dehydraters.  I am going to choose not to worry about this unless I see some kind of problem.  Currently winter here so things will be dry inside.

I think you may want to research the filament materials - specifically the flame ratings.  I think I came across one that was designed for flame resistance.

[PA0PBZ]

Like that 'up' machine where the first thing you do is print abunch of addons to make the machine 'better'. Really ? That thing has sold for so long and so many units they can't afford to have those bits professionally extruded ?

I have the UP! mini, bought it because:

 - It's a finished product, no tinkering needed apart from levelling (did this once a year ago, no need to do it again yet)
 - It was available at a local shop which had a promotion so I payed like $ 800
 - It's closed, so no problem with draft and such
 - I didn't have to print any addon to get it working
 - It has a heated table and a good working board on top of that, no need for tape or hairspray or glass
 - The slicing software that comes with it is quite good, and it reads industry standard stl files

I really bought it to get some hands on experience with 3D printers, and to find out what I would really want to have. So far I'm happy with what it does, I printed about 20 objects and it didn't fail on any of them. I never checked the dimensions of the output so I can't really comment on that, and it has only one nozzle and a limited building capacity.

[miceuz]

We got this chinese clone of Makerbot:
http://blog.technariumas.lt/post/84907171406/the-new-3d-printer-at-work-making-test-parts-for

Printed 1024+ such holders with it:
http://blog.technariumas.lt/post/88881012111/3d-printed-parts-for-the-silicone-meadow

Yes, thermocouples break, you have to upgrade the firmware before it's usabe, other than that it went pretty ok. We bought a double head version, since we wanted yeld, we printed the same part via two nozzles in parallel.

I didn't have much need to do anything with it for me personaly, but in general, you can dowload a file from the internet and print a solid object out of it.

[Leuams]

I have a XYZprinter Da Vinci 1.0. It is cheap (~$500 USD), worked right out of the box for me, easy to use software, and so far has been maintenance free. It does have the cartridges that are similar to the ink jet printers today but they can be hacked if you really want to, I haven't done that yet. I have had a great experience with it.

[Christopher]

We have an HP Designjet 3D at work.

Might be a bit expensive but it just works and needs no calibration etc. Software all works out of the box.

[zapta]

A few assorted notes:

A good place to ask for printer recomendtions is here http://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting. There is also a local group that meets periodically https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bay-area-reprap.

Air draft is not an issue with PLA, actually some printers even have a material cooling fan to improve PLA printing.

Heated bed is not required for PLA but improves adhesion to the bed.

Dual extruder machine allows soluble support. Never used it and know know if it will be useful for your case. Probably not (PCB cases, standoffs, etc). All printers support automatic material support with the normal filament.

SLA printers are not good for your application. The material is too brittle.

I wouldn't buy a printer that requires to connecting the computer to it (e.g. that Up+ printer I used that required the computer to be connected throughout the printing).  An LCD screen with stand alone user interface and SD card is very useful. Some printers even even Wifi link so you can print remotely (assuming your printer is clean and ready to print).

Auto leveling is important for an 'appliance' experience. Mine doesn't have it and it's a pain. The first layer or extrusion is the most important as it controls the adhesion to the bed.

1mm tolerance shouldn't be a problem with any 3D printer.

Hair spray is nasty. Hard to remove and if it gets on your plastic glasses they are gone. Use one of the friendlier methods (I am using that water soluble Elmer purple glue stick).

I wouldn't go with a printer that locks you to proprietary consumable unless, maybe, if it is a brand name (e.g. Makerbot).

The Dremel printer is rebranded from here (this company has good reputation) http://www.flashforge-usa.com/shop/3d-printers.html

Makerbot put a lot of effort into making their products consumer friendly and accessible. There products and consumables are  relatively expensive but are often consider to the reference for quality ("this filament is as good as Makerbots'"). I used their older two extruder wood frame unit and it gave excellent results, including with ABS. Didn't use their new models but saw them in a local Microsoft store (Stanford mall) and they look awesome.

The wide selection of 3D printers with none being a clear winner may be paralyzing. You just need to pick one and most likely it will work fine.  I picked the Prusa i3v kit and it works for me. 

Good luck.

[German_EE]

I go to the local FabLab to use their machines and, to be honest, I am not impressed. I needed a set of 36 slider pot knobs to refurbish a graphic equalizer and we ended up printing fifty or so before I had a usable set. The output is of low to medium quality and once you get over the novelty of printing Master Yoda figures the appeal starts to wear off.

I will wait two or three years for the technology to improve then, maybe, consider a purchase.

[jaxbird]

i'm in the market for a 3d printer. budget 2000 to 2500$ ( preferrably lower )
...

Honestly I don't think you get anything close to "turnkey" for below $10k.

Personally I've had good experience with a cheap as dirt heavily modified Mendel/Prusa based design. But it is certainly not anywhere close to turnkey. Have to invest significant time and effort to achieve usable results. And it needs constant calibration and maintenance.

I believe you need to step up into the $50 - $100k level to get true turnkey and wysiwyg.

[Corporate666]

Depends what you are intending to use it for.

If it's just for playing around, go for it.  If you intend to do any serious work, just go with Shapeways/Sculpeo.  The machines available at hobby level budgets are just toys that are not serious machines capable of serious work, unless your work is printing silly crappy looking trinkets like coffee mug coasters and batarangs that look like they were whittled with a chainsaw.

The parts I get from Sculpeo are so high-res they don't even look 3D printed.  And I can have 1mm through holes that have no flash and are right on size. 

But as I said it depends what you want to do with it.  For me, it was prototyping parts to verify before CNC machining.  I didn't need superb accuracy but it had to be somewhat reasonable... and printing plastic parts with sags and droops from thick sections unevenly cooling and twisted and warped and off-size from drivetrain backlash just didn't cut it. 

[tggzzz]

Depends what you are intending to use it for.
...
The parts I get from X are so high-res they don't even look 3D printed. 

Yes, just so.

Apparently it is now fairly standard practice to 3d print jewellery. Printing in wax has a high resolution and can then be used for lost-wax casting of precious (or non-precious) metals.

[HighVoltage]

I looked at a lot of 3D printers and found that the hardware that produces good quality parts is too expensive and the lower cost printers did not fulfill my expectations. So I told myself to waif a couple more years. So, I am still sending my STL files to a prototyping house and 2 days later I have perfect parts.

[zapta]

If it's just for playing around, go for it.  If you intend to do any serious work, just go with Shapeways/Sculpeo.  The machines available at hobby level budgets are just toys that are not serious machines capable of serious work, unless your work is printing silly crappy looking trinkets like coffee mug coasters and batarangs that look like they were whittled with a chainsaw.

Even if you want 'serious work', it's handy to do quick prototyping until you are happy with the design.  I have a cheapo Prusa I3V and found it to be very useful for fabricating things I need (no, I am not printing Yodas). My last design is here

[Corporate666]

If it's just for playing around, go for it.  If you intend to do any serious work, just go with Shapeways/Sculpeo.  The machines available at hobby level budgets are just toys that are not serious machines capable of serious work, unless your work is printing silly crappy looking trinkets like coffee mug coasters and batarangs that look like they were whittled with a chainsaw.

Even if you want 'serious work', it's handy to do quick prototyping until you are happy with the design.  I have a cheapo Prusa I3V and found it to be very useful for fabricating things I need (no, I am not printing Yodas). My last design is here

That's a hobby part right?  Exactly my point.

Nobody doing commercial work is going to be printing out stuff on their MakerBot - they are going to use a real 3D printing service to get commercially viable prints.  I didn't say these printers were not usable for at-home hobby work... they just produce crappy looking parts in limited range of materials that require significant amounts of hand-finishing to get usable.  For some home/hobby applications, that's OK.

[jaxbird]

If it's just for playing around, go for it.  If you intend to do any serious work, just go with Shapeways/Sculpeo.  The machines available at hobby level budgets are just toys that are not serious machines capable of serious work, unless your work is printing silly crappy looking trinkets like coffee mug coasters and batarangs that look like they were whittled with a chainsaw.

Even if you want 'serious work', it's handy to do quick prototyping until you are happy with the design.  I have a cheapo Prusa I3V and found it to be very useful for fabricating things I need (no, I am not printing Yodas). My last design is here

Nice work 

In my experience it's all about knowing the limits of your machine and getting the best out of it.