Author Topic: Best precision screwdriver set?  (Read 95446 times)

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Offline Clint

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2013, 07:42:49 pm »
I use Facom, I cant recommend these enough, these are the older ones I have had them forever and I would buy another set if they ever decide to wear, but there is no signs of that !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360643092975

On a side note I have almost every facom screwdriver in my toolbox and a huge cost, again I can 100% recommend them too :)
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Offline senso

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2013, 03:04:20 am »
I don't know the precision/micro screwdrivers from Facom, but anything above that is all top quality, and also top price, in Portugal they are regarded as top quality tools..
 

Offline geostep

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2013, 03:55:00 am »
Dave,

With all the postings here did you come to any decision and make a purchase? If so what did you get and how have they performed for you?

- George
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2013, 07:13:42 am »
For tougher material, also Tungsten Carbide can be used. Endmills are being made out of it. Carbide is extremely hard (i suppose you couldn't put a scratch on it using any tool made of metal) but also brittle.

I have ground broken carbide endmills into micro-chisel-like tools using diamond grinding wheel. Only for a very delicate job though. Perfect for removing hairline shorts on homemade pcb's.
Carbide is way too brittle to use as a screwdriver or a punch.  It would shatter as soon as you applied any torque  or impact to it.  Also keep in mind that carbide dust is very nasty stuff.  When grinding carbide a mask and eye protection should be used in addition to a dust collector.

As far as taps, I've used them to make screw extractors and special shaped punches now and then.  I work in a machine shop repairing CNC machine centers so I have access to as many used taps as I want.  All top quality stuff like OSG, Emuge, Cleveland, etc.  I never thought about using them to make screwdrivers.  Thanks Robrenz, what a great idea!  I'll have to give that a try.

I have a tungsten wedding ring.  My first day at my most recent job, it slipped off and bounced on the concrete floor and cracked all the way through on one side. So I superglued it together and started wearing it around my neck. (We're supposed to have metal jewelry taken off or covered so there's no chance of a safety issue or scratching any of our products)
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Offline jvdb

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2013, 01:27:48 am »
I have a tungsten wedding ring.  My first day at my most recent job, it slipped off and bounced on the concrete floor and cracked all the way through on one side.



Apparently these are commonly cracked with vice grips because they can't be cut.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2013, 01:54:47 am »
I have a tungsten wedding ring.  My first day at my most recent job, it slipped off and bounced on the concrete floor and cracked all the way through on one side.



Apparently these are commonly cracked with vice grips because they can't be cut.

Yes I remember watching that video when I got my ring to figure out what to do in case of an emergency.
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Offline ben_r_

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2013, 05:46:46 pm »
I have a tungsten wedding ring.  My first day at my most recent job, it slipped off and bounced on the concrete floor and cracked all the way through on one side.



Apparently these are commonly cracked with vice grips because they can't be cut.
Thats funny to think about. Hardest material ever to be used for jewelry, cant be cut is so tough, but some light squeezing with a pair of vise grips and pfffft, it crumbles.
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2013, 07:34:37 pm »
Remember that there is a lot of confusion between hardness and toughness. Diamond is hard, but not terribly tough, it shatters with impact. Silicone rubber is not terribly hard but very tough.

Biggest confusion was that some thought that the way to test if it was a real diamond was to hit it with a hammer, if it did not shatter it was a genuine diamond. Wonder how many were destroyed by that myth.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2013, 12:52:08 am »
Remember that there is a lot of confusion between hardness and toughness. Diamond is hard, but not terribly tough, it shatters with impact. Silicone rubber is not terribly hard but very tough.

Biggest confusion was that some thought that the way to test if it was a real diamond was to hit it with a hammer, if it did not shatter it was a genuine diamond. Wonder how many were destroyed by that myth.

Diamond also will burn. So if you have any fine jewelry make sure you keep it in a fireproof safe.
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Offline eKretz

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2013, 09:53:57 am »
Furthering that train of thought, Tungsten carbide can easily be cut with diamond abrasives (I.E. rotary cut-off wheel) or shattered. Pure Tungsten is much easier to damage than Tungsten carbide. Tungsten carbide is nearly as hard to scratch as a diamond. IIRC, it's above 9 on the Moh's hardness scale, where pure Tungsten is ~7.5, and diamond is of course 10. Cubic Boron Nitride falls in between the Tungsten carbide and diamond. None of these would be very useful as a screwdriver blade, but some might make good coatings for screwdriver blades. (Tungsten Carbide plating would probably do wonders with a good properly hardened substrate, I can't imagine it would ever wear out). But those would be some expensive screwdrivers.
 

Offline Phroon

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2013, 10:39:45 am »
(Tungsten Carbide plating would probably do wonders with a good properly hardened substrate, I can't imagine it would ever wear out). But those would be some expensive screwdrivers.

The prices don't seem completely insane: http://www.wihatools.com/700seri/700_DuraBit.htm

But Expensive, yes.
 

Offline eKretz

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2013, 02:42:26 am »
Nice, I didn't know those were being sold by a major producer. $9 per interchangeable Torx tip is a bit hefty for sure, but if they last forever it's not so bad. The way tools disappear in my house I'd have to lock them in a safe, heh.
 

Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2013, 04:37:50 am »
I hadn't seen this company mentioned yet. Moody Tools, they are Made in the USA (RI if I remember correctly) Picked these up off of ebay for quite cheap ($5+~$2-3 shipping, I can post a link to the seller if interested). Its their POLLICIS ESD-safe series.



Oddly enough, I noticed while at Sears that there are two types of Craftsman precision screw drivers. One type I have a strong feeling is a moody tools rebrand (as the construction appears VERY similar and it says Made In the USA on the back). The other appears to be Genera Tool rebrands (says Made In China) and it looks similar to the moody stuff as well. If you look closely though its much more cheapily made.

I tried taking some pictures but they didn't come out well. As I'm not a machinist I lack the ability to describe things but I'll do my best. First off and most obvious, the black plating on the general tool stuff is MUCH thinner and cheaper.  Another striking feature is that all of the lines on the Moody bits are very crisp and super sharp. Clearly a very high precision machining. For example, there is a spot where  the bit reduces in to a more narrow dimension. The moody bits have a crisp delineations between each part. The GT bits almost look like they were "painted over" in that the delineations are not nearly as sharp. The part of the bit that inserts into the handle is also an area of difference.  The Moody bits are precise with many edges camfered, the GT tops are clearly almost unfinished with rough edges ets. Lastly, the Moody tips are thinner at the end with a more nicely scuplted edge.
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Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #63 on: August 25, 2013, 06:45:19 am »
For some reason it keeps erroring out when I try to edit. Not sure if its my PC or what.


Anways I forgot to mention the sizes with the screw driver. It is flat head 0.100", 0.080", 0.070" and 0.055" and a sharp awl.
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Offline nanofrog

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2013, 03:38:44 pm »
Is made in the USA stuff any good these days? It has kind of a bad rep here, mostly due to Black & Decker / DeWalt and American cars that seem to need an incredible amount of maintenance.
It depends. Some is junk (i.e. cost cutting gone too far), some isn't.

Moody is decent from what I've had access to, but it didn't feel all that comfortable to me (very small diameter handles). YMMV though (fit your hands better), so if you see a Moody set you're interested in, it might be worth a try. They do offer a good value IMHO. BTW, the blue anodized finish can wear off (aluminum knurled handles), leaving your fingers blue.
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2013, 02:51:31 am »
Is made in the USA stuff any good these days? It has kind of a bad rep here, mostly due to Black & Decker / DeWalt and American cars that seem to need an incredible amount of maintenance.

Black and Decker is JUNK, and has been for a VERY long time...very long indeed.  DeWalt is extremely hit or miss and generally speaking not made in the USA anymore.  Porter Cable has turned into nearly complete junk.  For example, I have a Made In USA Porter Cable router that is nearly 20 years old and is still going strong.  Much production has moved to Mexico or elsewhere, and these routers now chew through bearings like there's no tomorrow.  This happened when they were taken over.  They decided that PC would be the low end line, and Dewalt would be the contractor tools.  Too bad Dewalt makes so much crap too.  I don't feel good recommending either brand anymore.  I take it on a tool by tool basis.  For example, the Porter Cable 7518 motor is STILL good, as far as I know.  Their other routers are absolute junk.  The Porter Cable large drill press (I forget the model now) is really not terrible, though there's STILL no way to tighten the quill for play and no quill lock, but at least most of them don't have massive play right out of the box, unlike some others I can mention.

Why do you think so many have switched to Festool, despite the high costs?  For people like me, who do this kind of stuff for a living, we just simply can't afford to replace a $200 tool every 4 months.  I need a $600 tool that lasts 5 years.

Much of the Made in USA stuff is still very good, but there's very little of that to be had.  Honestly, it's very embarrassing that so many of "our" brands are such junk.  As far as cars go, though, easily the lousiest car I've ever owned, at least as far as maintenance is concerned, was my Volvo S60.  I've never owned a vehicle that spent SOOOO much time at the mechanic and that was so expensive to fix.  So many electrical problems too...shameful.  I couldn't keep the little yellow "Service!" light out for more than a month at a time, and I owned that stupid thing for 5 years.  So far the two best I've owned was my Subaru (we immediately went out and bought another once I drove it into the ground) and my Dodge Durango.  I put nearly 200,000 miles on both with very little headaches.
 

Offline staxquad

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2013, 03:48:55 am »
Is made in the USA stuff any good these days? It has kind of a bad rep here, mostly due to Black & Decker / DeWalt and American cars that seem to need an incredible amount of maintenance.

Black and Decker is JUNK, and has been for a VERY long time...very long indeed.  DeWalt is extremely hit or miss and generally speaking not made in the USA anymore.  Porter Cable has turned into nearly complete junk.  For example, I have a Made In USA Porter Cable router that is nearly 20 years old and is still going strong.  Much production has moved to Mexico or elsewhere, and these routers now chew through bearings like there's no tomorrow.  This happened when they were taken over.  They decided that PC would be the low end line, and Dewalt would be the contractor tools.  Too bad Dewalt makes so much crap too.  I don't feel good recommending either brand anymore.  I take it on a tool by tool basis.  For example, the Porter Cable 7518 motor is STILL good, as far as I know.  Their other routers are absolute junk.  The Porter Cable large drill press (I forget the model now) is really not terrible, though there's STILL no way to tighten the quill for play and no quill lock, but at least most of them don't have massive play right out of the box, unlike some others I can mention.

Why do you think so many have switched to Festool, despite the high costs?  For people like me, who do this kind of stuff for a living, we just simply can't afford to replace a $200 tool every 4 months.  I need a $600 tool that lasts 5 years.

Much of the Made in USA stuff is still very good, but there's very little of that to be had.  Honestly, it's very embarrassing that so many of "our" brands are such junk.  As far as cars go, though, easily the lousiest car I've ever owned, at least as far as maintenance is concerned, was my Volvo S60.  I've never owned a vehicle that spent SOOOO much time at the mechanic and that was so expensive to fix.  So many electrical problems too...shameful.  I couldn't keep the little yellow "Service!" light out for more than a month at a time, and I owned that stupid thing for 5 years.  So far the two best I've owned was my Subaru (we immediately went out and bought another once I drove it into the ground) and my Dodge Durango.  I put nearly 200,000 miles on both with very little headaches.

DeWalt is owned by Stanley/Black and Decker, for the occasional hobbyist on a budget tools.  Milwaukee are professional tradesmen tools made in the USA.  I have their Sawzall; light, nimble, powerful, well designed; the DeWalt is atrocious.   

Chris King is made in the USA, high end bike hubs, headsets, the absolute best in performance and durability (and expensive).  Used to be in Northern California,  then moved to Oregon.
Chris King didn't sell out.


As for the screwdriver sets, I have Wiha and Cadik (Taiwan), with Wiha coming up on top.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 03:46:07 am by staxquad »
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Offline eKretz

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2013, 04:50:38 pm »
That hub looks like a quality, well-made bit of kit. I wonder if there isn't a bit of a semantics issue in that ad though. They "make" their own bearings? I find this a bit hard to believe. Perhaps they "assemble" their own bearings. To me at least, saying "make" means they are machining and grinding the balls and races as WELL as doing assembly. That is not a cheap process, and the machinery costs to do so make it virtually impossible for anyone who doesn't sell millions of ball bearings a day to get the economy of scale that would be necessary to offer a decent price.
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2013, 08:34:05 pm »
If the drivers are truly made in USA, not simple the handle,  I'd give it a look see, but its oddly very cheap to be made in USA.  Is it real or counterfeit?  Compare Moody's actual prices.

http://www.moodytools.com/MTI_Products_4.html

As an side, if its truly Made in USA its likely good to very good quality, but USA brands alone are iffy since they can be made anywhere in the world.  You have to play items not made in USA by ear.  They branders can't fake 'made in USA' without worrying about the CPSC or the state attorney general going after them for false advertising or claims. 

I hadn't seen this company mentioned yet. Moody Tools, they are Made in the USA (RI if I remember correctly) Picked these up off of ebay for quite cheap ($5+~$2-3 shipping, I can post a link to the seller if interested). Its their POLLICIS ESD-safe series.

« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 08:35:53 pm by saturation »
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Offline staxquad

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2013, 04:16:39 am »
That hub looks like a quality, well-made bit of kit. I wonder if there isn't a bit of a semantics issue in that ad though. They "make" their own bearings? I find this a bit hard to believe. Perhaps they "assemble" their own bearings. To me at least, saying "make" means they are machining and grinding the balls and races as WELL as doing assembly. That is not a cheap process, and the machinery costs to do so make it virtually impossible for anyone who doesn't sell millions of ball bearings a day to get the economy of scale that would be necessary to offer a decent price.

Quote from:  mojo-chan
Is made in the USA stuff any good these days?

Quote
Made in The USA
100% of our manufacturing & assembly is done in the United States

Sourcing
We source metal stock only from high-quality US and Canadian mills with verified responsible manufacturing and labor practices.

They make their own races out of surgical steel and assemble the bearings with high grade balls.  All my Campagnolo headsets (road) would index (notch, even after just one year), but my 2 Chris King headsets (both mtb), after 12 and 14  years of use still feel like new, no indexing.  They are a high end machine shop, working with stainless steel, titanium and aluminium,  doing anodizing.  They are the BEST in the World at making hubs and headsets (and tools for their maintenance).   

http://chrisking.com/

Quote
A bearing blank is made from a bar of stainless steel in the time it has taken you to read this paragraph.



« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 04:34:03 am by staxquad »
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Offline Spectreman

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Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #70 on: August 29, 2013, 04:56:16 am »
I have a USA made General Tools driver set, seems to be well made.
I have actually purchased a lot of second hand quality tools over the past year, all made in the UK or USA.
Stuff that was made 20 years or more ago, but very well made.
Chris.
 

Offline eKretz

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2013, 05:59:07 pm »
That hub looks like a quality, well-made bit of kit. I wonder if there isn't a bit of a semantics issue in that ad though. They "make" their own bearings? I find this a bit hard to believe. Perhaps they "assemble" their own bearings. To me at least, saying "make" means they are machining and grinding the balls and races as WELL as doing assembly. That is not a cheap process, and the machinery costs to do so make it virtually impossible for anyone who doesn't sell millions of ball bearings a day to get the economy of scale that would be necessary to offer a decent price.

Quote from:  mojo-chan
Is made in the USA stuff any good these days?

Quote
Made in The USA
100% of our manufacturing & assembly is done in the United States

Sourcing
We source metal stock only from high-quality US and Canadian mills with verified responsible manufacturing and labor practices.

They make their own races out of surgical steel and assemble the bearings with high grade balls.  All my Campagnolo headsets (road) would index (notch, even after just one year), but my 2 Chris King headsets (both mtb), after 12 and 14  years of use still feel like new, no indexing.  They are a high end machine shop, working with stainless steel, titanium and aluminium,  doing anodizing.  They are the BEST in the World at making hubs and headsets (and tools for their maintenance).   

http://chrisking.com/

Quote
A bearing blank is made from a bar of stainless steel in the time it has taken you to read this paragraph.





OK, they definitely make the races, looks like they are buying the balls though. Still a lot further than many places go though. I checked the website link; on the whole, I'm impressed.
 

Offline jamesp15

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2013, 05:41:39 pm »
<snipped>
DeWalt is owned by Stanley/Black and Decker, for the occasional hobbyist on a budget tools.  Milwaukee are professional tradesmen tools made in the USA.  I have their Sawzall; light, nimble, powerful, well designed; the DeWalt is atrocious.   
<snipped>

Milwaukee tools were once US made, like B&D/PC/DeWalt...  but not anymore..  They are mostly made in china now and they do some rebrands as well.  They are now owned by "Techtronic Industries" who also own Ryobi and AEG.

Most contractors around here use DeWalt or Makita tools (US, Washington DC area), you occasionally see Rigid tools as well, almost never see Milwaukee anymore, they just dont hold up like they used to.  B&D are definately home-owner grade tools.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2013, 05:49:28 pm »
I have some Bosch tools, and when asked if I lend them out the reply is generally  " Yes, but they come with an attachment, ME" as I like to have them around for a while. Oldest is a Miller Falls small drill, still going after a few decades of service. Then a few really old B&Decker drills, a collection of old and some cheap angle grinders of assorted makes, a few power saws and then a nice Bosch SDS drill I use a lot. The SDS drill was recently in for repair, and was fixable, just had to wait 2 months for the spares, but they do have spares backup for a lot of the power tools they sell. Reason for the repair is because I did not do the general rule the once.
 

Offline staxquad

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Re: Best precision screwdriver set?
« Reply #74 on: September 02, 2013, 01:54:09 am »
<snipped>
DeWalt is owned by Stanley/Black and Decker, for the occasional hobbyist on a budget tools.  Milwaukee are professional tradesmen tools made in the USA.  I have their Sawzall; light, nimble, powerful, well designed; the DeWalt is atrocious.   
<snipped>

Milwaukee tools were once US made, like B&D/PC/DeWalt...  but not anymore..  They are mostly made in china now and they do some rebrands as well.  They are now owned by "Techtronic Industries" who also own Ryobi and AEG.

Most contractors around here use DeWalt or Makita tools (US, Washington DC area), you occasionally see Rigid tools as well, almost never see Milwaukee anymore, they just dont hold up like they used to.  B&D are definately home-owner grade tools.

"2008: Techtronic opens the most modern manufacturing facility in all of China for power tools; closes plants in Arkansas and Kociusko, Mississippi."

Thankfully I bought my SAWZALL before 2008.

Accelerated off-shoring.  Still remember that free trade debate between Gore and Perot.  Perot said jobs would be lost while Gore promised more wealth (for the rich).   Canada got sucked into NAFTA.   

Well...at least  Chris King didn't sell out.

My Makita Driver and Drill set says Makita Corporation Anjo, Aichi, Japan MK Made in China.

A lot of  SNAP ON tools are now Made in China, still with an inflated price.

Extracting wealth out of low wages.


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