BK-2542 Teardown

[Jad.z]

Hi All

BK-2542 is a 100MHz 1GSPS oscilloscope.
At this point in time, I don't think this scope is worthy of a review, especially with its humongous 4k memory 

I'll leave comments about the PCB and layout to you, I think they are a bit unusual!

[Jad.z]

Fake Earth!?  thx vtl. It is actually connected from the bottom  .



This is the bottom side, the one usually facing the table. It has its own cover that you simply slide open.






13 relays






Modular Wouldn't that affect the signal quality?

Higher Res


I think they just replace those modules for different frequency and bandwidth.

Higher Res

[vtl]

Thats absolutely crazy with the earth! Is the scope really floating with no electrical continuity from earth to case? Or does the IEC plug have the earth connected to those screw points?

[Mint.]

Thank you for sharing. Excellent photos!

[saturation]

It looks well made.  4k isn't the best, but it isn't very bad either it just limits how well you can zoom, but as you own the scope already, there is no huge need to upgrade.  The specs online say is 1Gs/sec, is that with both channels on or single?  FWIW, with all the QC issues we are reading on some sales of Rigol, Owon and Hantek scopes, its better to hang on to good ones when you have them.

Where is it made, Taiwan or China?

[alm]

I don't think 4k of memory makes it unusable either, it gives you several screens full of data. It just means you have to pay more attention to triggering and aliasing.

[Jad.z]

Hi saturation, alm 

The two channels are interleaved.
BK-2542 is made in China, regardless of that the components quality is excellent.

I like this scope and yes it is well made, else I wouldn't have bought it  .

BTW, I never said this scope is worthless because of its 4k memory, I said I don't think this scope is worthy of a review.
At this point in time and for less money, than what I have paid for this scope in 2008 ~1100$, you can buy the new BK-2542B
Which come with 2.4 Mpts memory @MSRP 899$.

[blackwatch42nd]

I am brand new to this forum (and new to this subjetc area) and I realize this subject has been discussed ad nauseum, but I trying to decide on a good o-scope. I've narrowed it down to three. I want a quality scope and am willing to spend a few extra bucks (not too much extra, cause I'm only doing this for fun). So here are my choices:
 1.
BK Precision 2542B-Gen: I like this one because it has a good size bandwidth and decent sampling rate. Also, it's has a built in wave form generator.
 
2.
Tektronics TDS2012C: has the same bandwidth but a higher sample rate. No wave form generator.
 
3.
Rigol DS1204B: This has the the broader bandwidth, higher sample rate, 4 inputs, but, again no wave form generator.
 

I'm leaning toward the BK (thus the reason posted on this thread) because of the wave form generator, but the Rigol has nice bandwidth/sample rate and 4 inputs. Then again the Tektronics has the name recognition and reputation. All are about the same price.
 
Once again, I'm not a professional, only a hobbyist having fun. But when i buy a piece of equipment, I may not buy the best, but I try to buy quality that will last.
 
Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanx John

[Jad.z]

Hi blackwatch42nd and welcome to the fourm

I'd go with the BK Precision 2542B-GEN. It has the best price/performance ratio out of the bunch.

2542B-GEN            1395$                  100Mhz Bandwidth                2.4 Mpts Memory Depth
TDS2012C              1300$                  100Mhz Bandwidth                2.5 Kpts Memory Depth
DS1204B                1395$                  200Mhz Bandwidth                16 Kpts Memory Depth (Half Ch)

BTW a 100Mhz bandwidth is plenty. One would rarely need any more than a 100Mhz.

[blackwatch42nd]

Jad.z,
Thanx for the reply.  I am leaning very much toward the BK but am having a hard time find out much about BK's reputation. Folks have plenty of opinions about Riglo, some good, some not so good and Tektronics has been around for a long time but i see very little about BK even though they've been around for about 50 years.  Any thoughts on quality and reliablity?  These 2542B_gen are new to the market and I haven't found any reviews.  Thoughts?
John

[robrenz]

Not saying this is the thing to do, but for that much money you could almost buy the low end 2000 series rigol and a DG1022 function gen.  It would be a lot more performance, at least on paper. Rigol 2000 thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/rigol-ds1000e-gt-ds2000/msg94700/#msg94700

[T4P]

Not saying this is the thing to do, but for that much money you could almost buy the low end 2000 series rigol and a DG1022 function gen.  It would be a lot more performance, at least on paper. Rigol 2000 thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/rigol-ds1000e-gt-ds2000/msg94700/#msg94700

No . The 2000 series is not actually worth it at all . At a slightly higher price the DSOX3000 gives slightly more value .

[FenderBender]

Not really impressed tbh...

I know it's not the final deciding factor but sometimes I look at the electrolytic caps to see what they used because they are easy to identify. I don't know what they used here but it isn't brand name. AKA- They cheaped out. AKA- Get a Rigol or get a used analog scope.

[Kilroy]

They cheaped out. AKA- Get a Rigol or get a used analog scope.

And yet Rigol has a well documented history of problems with their products.

The fact that they seem determined to promptly investigate and address these issues should be heartening, however, I'm still left in serious doubt as to whether these products can be expected to perform adequately for any reasonable service lifetime.

[saturation]

Yes, but it you are in North America, as I gather by your flag, you can avail of the warranty, as there is a Rigol NA. 

A simple burn-in will give you higher confidence to the device will live to its official warranty period or more, while its still under the seller's return policy. 

They cheaped out. AKA- Get a Rigol or get a used analog scope.

And yet Rigol has a well documented history of problems with their products.

The fact that they seem determined to promptly investigate and address these issues should be heartening, however, I'm still left in serious doubt as to whether these products can be expected to perform adequately for any reasonable service lifetime.

[Kilroy]

Yes, but it you are in North America, as I gather by your flag, you can avail of the warranty, as there is a Rigol NA.

Fair enough.

But the thing is, I don't expect to ever take advantage of a warranty period when I purchase a properly designed and engineered instrument intended to aid in the design and fault finding of other devices. I expect it to work as intended and not display evidence that the manufacturer has been less than diligent in it's conception and execution.

A simple burn-in will give you higher confidence to the device will live to its official warranty period or more, while its still under the seller's return policy.

 

The problem I have with this reasoning is that it implies that it is up to the user to prove the integrity of the manufacturer's product. I don't expect other folks to burn in my designs. That is my responsibility...especially so if I am asking them to part with non-trivial sums of money.


I don't want to come off all hard nosed an unreasonable. We humans are flawed...hopelessly so. But, these days, there seems to be a general willingness on the part of the consumer to go too easily on manufacturers missive products when they offer attractive warranty periods and generally efficient customer service. And that defies logic, as it more or less sends the message that as long as you keep fixing my broken stuff for free and maintain some kind of customer dialogue I will continue to support your flawed products.


But, maybe my expectations are just way out of line...

[T4P]

That's something i encountered with HP , i had my previous laptop break down every few months or so for the last consecutive 3 years then a month after warranty went it just went poof again ...
I was never going to buy HP's flawed principle and flawed products ever again .
Since most laptops come from china , it's only which is better and in this case HP proved to me they are shiite , sorry mate ! No way i was gonna buy again , of course next time it would be with acer ... This fujitsu i have is running a little rich ...

[saturation]

Generally, warranty cover possibilities of defects, they are accidental and unexpected usually during manufacturing, not due to a design fault.  Even the Agilent Infiniivisions have their issues and documented here by many owners, and by Dave himself in his review.   Without the test, you'd not have uncovered the faults and in eevblog, we see quite a number of faults after performance testing the item [ a separate issue from burn-in.]

IIRC the reported eevblog Rigol faults have either been repaired with a firmware update or a scope exchange.  No one I recall has been left high and dry if purchased through an authorized dealer.

Since burn-in is a formal process in electronics it means faults are expected in any production.    Even if a manufacturer does their own burns-in before shipping, the damage could have been done by the process of shipping itself or burn tests aren't as as extreme as an end-user.  So in the end, a prudent owner should do their own burn-in to give onself the maximum assurance of product reliability.  With a 24/7 burn in, that week is often within a no-question return policy of the seller, rather than shipping it back to the manufacturer for manufacturer's warranty.  If for example, you bought it through Amazon, they may even pay for the return shipping.  Can't hurt, given how simple it is.

A simple burn-in will give you higher confidence to the device will live to its official warranty period or more, while its still under the seller's return policy.
The problem I have with this reasoning is that it implies that it is up to the user to prove the integrity of the manufacturer's product. ..
...there seems to be a general willingness on the part of the consumer to go too easily on manufacturers missive products when they offer attractive warranty periods and generally efficient customer service. ..

[blackwatch42nd]

All,
I appreciate all the comments and sometimes it just boils down to a Chevy or a Ford depending on you likes/dislikes and past experiences with one or the other.  The core of this discussion seems to be now on the virtues of the Rigol brand, but how about BK?  How's everyones experience with them?  Do they make quality products that stand the test of time?  When they introduce a new product (i.e 2542B-Gen) do they have problems when they first come out or do they have a reputation for vetting their equipment first?
John

[Kilroy]

I have had very good service from their function generators and power supplies. Zero problems.

I should probably qualify that statement by pointing out that the B&K products I own were made entirely in the US at that time. I have no experience with their new stuff.

[WBB]

Maybe this is a case of no news is good news? BK products are at a higher price point than others, but plenty of people buy their products. If they were crap it would most likely be splattered all over the net. I have a few of their products, no scope tho, nor have I bought anything of theirs "hot off the press."  What I do have works as advertised and has been trouble free.

In my opinion, Bk is generally considered fairly high quality and has done little to create the need to "burn in" items.  Just my 2 cents

[FenderBender]

Is BK crap? No. They don't manufacture anything as far as I'm concerned...but you can almost guarantee that the product will work as advertised and if it doesn't they can fix that for you.

The only problem is..yes, you have to pay for that.

[Jad.z]

I've never been let down by any BK product I've ever owned, US made or not.

[Bored@Work]

Is BK crap? No. They don't manufacture anything as far as I'm concerned...

They own a manufacturer, Itech http://itech.sh/cn/index.jsp and have bought parts of another manufacturer http://news.bkprecision.com/2012/01/bk-precision-has-acquired-the-instrument-division-of-motech-industries.html

But IMHO BK equipment, rebadged or own products, aren't high-end but expensive for what they offer.

[T4P]

Seems like some of their bench equipment comes from GW Instek ... 

[blackwatch42nd]

Well, thanx for the feedback.  I really appreciate it.  I'm still leaning toward the BK2542-GEN but will let y'all know what i get and how it comes out. 
Thanx again.
John

[kevinateev]

John :

Here is a happy dilemma to have.   I just couldn't find a source for a scope so I resorted to auctions.  Fortunately, there were some very plentiful and amazing scopes for sale (it was a Radar manufacturer!).  Nobody cared about my little lot and I managed to get for very good price.  Only, I had to buy the lot so I now have two scopes and a counter and have promised to sell some of the equipment.

Which one should I sell?  The BK-2542 or the Techtronix TDS-340 ??

TDS has better name brand recognition but has pokey parallel port and rs-232 only along with a floppy drive.  The BK has USB and RS-232.  TDS has green screen, BK has color.  Both are 100Mhz units.