Can genuine Hakko FX-888 still be found?

[k_sze]

Hopefully this is not a completely stupid question.

I want a Hakko FX-888 (not the newer FX-888D). I know it has long been discontinued. I can find some on AliExpress. How likely do you think any of them is genuine? Some are not priced terribly cheap, and I wouldn't mind refurbished or 2nd-hand, as long as it's not completely botched. I have never bought stuff on AliExpress.

[apelly]

I got mine a couple of (3?) years ago from a reputable supplier (element14?) in New Zealand. Haven't looked since, but they were getting scarce even then.

There are so many posts here about fake Hakkos on ebay/ali that I wouldn't even waste my time looking there. Hakko appears to be an extremely commonly ripped off brand.

Unfortunately I wasn't even able to get a cheap one from the States; our 240V ones were about NZD240 (USD180?) which is a total scam by itself.

You might get lucky with a 'wanted' post in the buy/sell/wanted sub forum. That's what I'd try.

[coppice]

If you are in HK, IC Master still has the FX-888 and the FX-888D listed on their web site.

[wraper]

Can genuine Hakko FX-888 still be found?

No

How likely do you think any of them is genuine?

0% chance
Even if you will buy FX-888D which is in production, it would be nearly impossible to get genuine from Aliexpress or other places in China.

[k_sze]

If you are in HK, IC Master still has the FX-888 and the FX-888D listed on their web site.

I just submitted an order for one. Hopefully they actually have stock.

[wraper]

If you are in HK, IC Master still has the FX-888 and the FX-888D listed on their web site.

I just submitted an order for one. Hopefully they actually have stock.

Hopefully they have not, because there is no chance it being genuine and unused at the same time.

[coppice]

If you are in HK, IC Master still has the FX-888 and the FX-888D listed on their web site.

I just submitted an order for one. Hopefully they actually have stock.

Hopefully they have not, because there is no chance it being genuine and unused at the same time.

Why? IC Master often has stuff that has been hanging around unpurchased for ages. I would have called and checked if they have stock, but to each his own. It won't be a fake if its purchased from IC Master.

[k_sze]

If you are in HK, IC Master still has the FX-888 and the FX-888D listed on their web site.

I just submitted an order for one. Hopefully they actually have stock.

Hopefully they have not, because there is no chance it being genuine and being unused at the same time.

I'll find out when I receive it. And it's ok because we actually have a Customs that enforces the Trade Description Ordinance (http://www.customs.gov.hk/en/consumer_protection/trade_desc/index.html)

[amyk]

You are unlikely to see much difference between the real and fake ones anyway...

Why the 888 and not a 936? Do you really like the garish colour scheme and unusual case design?

[KL27x]

Why the 888 and not a 936? Do you really like the garish colour scheme and unusual case design?

65W vs 45W isn't enough?

[k_sze]

So I just called IC Master. They don't actually have the FX-888 anymore. Not surprising. But I'm still feeling a bit sad.

[Shock]

Hakko still sold the FX 888 for a while in Japan after it discontinuing elsewhere but looks like it's gone for good from their site.

You could go one better get a Hakko FX 950, uses the 2028/2027 irons with a over 80 or so unique T15/T12 tips. 

https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx950.html

[k_sze]

Hakko still sold the FX 888 for a while in Japan after it discontinuing elsewhere but looks like it's gone for good from their site.

You could go one better get a Hakko FX 950, uses the 2028/2027 irons with a over 80 or so unique T15/T12 tips. 

https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx950.html

That's a great suggestion. The FX-950 is only about 250 HKD more expensive than the FX-888D. I'm definitely willing to pay that difference for a knob control.

[k_sze]

And a related question: should I get a tip thermometer (e.g. Hakko FG-100)?

[wraper]

And a related question: should I get a tip thermometer (e.g. Hakko FG-100)?

If you want to throw away the money, then definitely. Unless you want to calibrate soldering stations with destroyed calibration, there is no real use for it.

[k_sze]

And a related question: should I get a tip thermometer (e.g. Hakko FG-100)?

If you want to throw away the money, then definitely. Unless you want to calibrate soldering stations with destroyed calibration, there is no real use for it.

How does the calibration get "destroyed"?

[wraper]

And a related question: should I get a tip thermometer (e.g. Hakko FG-100)?

If you want to throw away the money, then definitely. Unless you want to calibrate soldering stations with destroyed calibration, there is no real use for it.

How does the calibration get "destroyed"?

On 888D it's something many owners did unintentionally because of poor UI. People think that are setting temperature but actually altering calibration.
Useful if you repair faulty soldering stations or need to check temperature in production environment, to ensure tight production process. Not something average hobbyist needs. Better buy handful of different tips instead.
BTW

The FX-950 is only about 250 HKD more expensive than the FX-888D.

sounds fishy, there  should be much more of price difference. Probably you are looking at the counterfeit.

[k_sze]

And a related question: should I get a tip thermometer (e.g. Hakko FG-100)?

If you want to throw away the money, then definitely. Unless you want to calibrate soldering stations with destroyed calibration, there is no real use for it.

How does the calibration get "destroyed"?

On 888D it's something many owners did unintentionally because of poor UI. People think that are setting temperature but actually altering calibration.
Useful if you repair faulty soldering stations or need to check temperature in production environment, to ensure tight production process. Not something average hobbyist needs. Better buy handful of different tips instead.
BTW

The FX-950 is only about 250 HKD more expensive than the FX-888D.

sounds fishy, there  should be much more of price difference. Probably you are looking at the counterfeit.

The price comes from IC Master. Again, I'm not worried about counterfeits for two reasons:

• you can't actually find many instances of the FX-950 on Taobao/AliExpress, so it seems nowhere as popular to counterfeit as the FX-888(D);
• IC Master have brick-and-mortar office and warehouse in Hong Kong; if they sell me counterfeit, they're in for a lot of trouble from the Hong Kong Customs.

And like coppice said earlier, they seem to have lots of old stock lying around. At worst they forgot to update their prices from like 5 years ago.

[Shock]

FG-100's are quite expensive here, if you can get repeatable measurements with a $10 clone that could be an option.

If you are considering getting a FX-950, download the manual and read what it says when changing tips. From what I remember the 936/888 series say calibrate new tips. I'm not sure if the T12 T15 tips are pre-compensated, they have the element included in the tip, which is meant to provide superior performance.

The tips are also a little more expensive but they hot swapped and have color coded sleeves etc, it's a different beast compared to the 888 series. The FX-951 gets fairly good reviews (95% with 42 reviews on Amazon, 27 reviews 5/5 tequipment.net) and uses the exact same irons as that model, but make sure you do your own research.

[k_sze]

FG-100's are quite expensive here, if you can get repeatable measurements with a $10 clone that could be an option.

If you are considering getting a FX-950, download the manual and read what it says when changing tips. From what I remember the 936/888 series say calibrate new tips. I'm not sure if the T12 T15 tips are pre-compensated, they have the element included in the tip, which is meant to provide superior performance.

The tips are also a little more expensive but they hot swapped and have color coded sleeves etc, it's a different beast compared to the 888 series. The FX-951 gets fairly good reviews (95% with 42 reviews on Amazon, 27 reviews 5/5 tequipment.net) and uses the exact same irons as that model, but make sure you do your own research.

Good call about checking the manual first.

So I compared the manuals for the FX-888D vs the FX-950. Indeed, the FX-888D manual says that you may need to calibrate after changing the iron, heater, or tip. I don't see any similar recommendation in the FX-950 manual, so I guess I don't have to worry as much with the FX-950.

[k_sze]

I'm trying to follow Dave's advice for choosing my first solder tips, which means:

• a chisel tip of 2~2.5 mm diameter for general purpose, through-hole, or even surface mount
• a well tip for surface mount

So if I look at the selection on Hakko's official site (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx950_tips.html#t12), I think I should get the T12-D24 or T12-D24Z.

But what size should I get for the well tip? There are basically two sizes: 2mm (T12-BCM2) and 3mm (T12-BCM3).

Are there other tips that you would recommend?

[Shock]

Depends on your budget the more elaborate the tip the more expensive (sometimes unjustifiably), as long as you look after them though they should pay for themselves with use.

The chisel tip is just a preference, I like them as well. People generally prefer the hoof, chisel or pointed. Chisel is good for through hole, on it's side or tip touching the pad.

If you have a small enough chisel tip then it works well for smd point-to-point (as seen in the below video at 1m17s). Not so much drag soldering, hoof is probably superior and as you can see in the video you don't need the well to put a meniscus of solder on the bottom of the hoof. The well type hoof tips allow you to load more solder on for that specific use.

I have chisels D8, D16, D24, D32 and hoofs C2, C3, C4 plus plenty of others, depends how much fine work you're doing but D24 covers a lot of general work. A flat hoof is good for wick. A large tip is handy for high thermal mass, you need to have something big enough to tin wire. I also have a super fine tip which is similar to the T15-ILS.

Anyway this video is the FX203 station, same iron and tip selection as the FX950. Mostly shown with the CF3 tip which is tinned only on the cut surface, John Gammell looks like he loves this tip.

Watch videos and look at techniques if you see people taking multiple stabs it generally means they aren't the best solderer around but you can get a fair idea what works in what situations.

[KL27x]

But what size should I get for the well tip? There are basically two sizes: 2mm (T12-BCM2) and 3mm (T12-BCM3).

The 3mm is the most efficient at holding large amounts of solder, due to the nature of solder/surface tension. Any much bigger, and the solder blob is too big and falls off. 3mm is bomb. But for tighter spots smaller hoof tips are very handy. I use BCF tips for most of my soldering, and I hae and use them all between 1mm and 3 mm: 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3. I have a 4mm, but as said... not that good for drag soldering due to being TOO big.

The smaller ones are for point soldering. For high volume drag soldering 3 is the sweet spot, IMO. For prototyping, you probably want a 2, but it won't be as magic at drag soldering.

[nanofrog]

The FX-950 is only about 250 HKD more expensive than the FX-888D. I'm definitely willing to pay that difference for a knob control.

If you're willing to forgo the knob, the FX-951 offers additional features, particularly regarding the setback features. Specifically, the FX-951's stand is connected to the station (unlike the FX-950), letting it know when the iron has been placed in the stand. This allows the user to set how long it takes for the iron to either drop to a settable lower temp, or shut the iron off. Now if you set a temp for the setback when the iron is initially placed in the stand, there's a second setting that will shut the station off if it exceeds the set IDLE time*. All of this can ultimately reduce the amount of oxidation, if not eliminate it, depending on both settings and tip care. 

Granted, the UI isn't the easiest to use, but once you've got it set, it shouldn't be that big a deal based on what I've read from posts from owners (set it, then leave it alone other than perhaps switching between preset temps, which isn't that difficult at all once they're set).

* This might not seem like that big of a deal, but it can significantly extend the life of your tips (can make a huge difference in TCO).

Not sure of the price difference in you're particular market, but it's worth digging into to see if the features are worth it IMHO. 

Also, Hakko's tip plating is one of the thickest out there, if not the thickest (not sure of the thickness vs. Ersa's tips, but it beats recent Weller production IME for example). Ideally, the plating thickness would need to be compared to both Metcal and Pace IMHO (suspect it would beat Mecal; not entirely sure about Pace, but Pace isn't so easy to get vs. other well known brands, particularly internationally). Regardless, Hakko's tips are well known to last a long time. For example, using 63/37 with a flux that's suited to electronics soldering (i.e. R, RMA, RA, or a suitable no-clean within these levels of activity), as well as cleaned + tinned, it's not unheard of for tips to last 10+ years.  Seriously, they're that well plated. 

[nanofrog]

But what size should I get for the well tip? There are basically two sizes: 2mm (T12-BCM2) and 3mm (T12-BCM3).

The 3mm is the most efficient at holding large amounts of solder, due to the nature of solder/surface tension. Any much bigger, and the solder blob is too big and falls off. 3mm is bomb. But for tighter spots smaller hoof tips are very handy. I use BCF tips for most of my soldering, and I hae and use them all between 1mm and 3 mm: 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3. I have a 4mm, but as said... not that good for drag soldering due to being TOO big.

The smaller ones are for point soldering. For high volume drag soldering 3 is the sweet spot, IMO. For prototyping, you probably want a 2, but it won't be as magic at drag soldering.

FWIW, I've both (3mm & 4mm bevel/hoof in tinned face only*). That said, I've dedicated drag tips, and the larger one is 3mm, and works extremely well IME.

That said, I like the 4mm bevel/hoof for soldering larger stuff, such as tabs (SMD or PTH), as well as tinning wire (particularly larger gauge stuff).

* Makes a huge difference IME, whether it's for drag soldering or more general purpose (heck, Weller doesn't even offer them with tinned surfaces beyond the flat surface).