Cheap chinese LED ceiling panels

[steve30]

I've just been looking on eBay and the various 'cheap chinese' websites, and have seen lots of LED 'panel lights', like the kind Dave has demonstrated in his videos. They seem to be available in sizes from a couple of inches across to 600x600mm and 600x1200mm, and at prices of well under £50.

Has anyone tried any of these ebay LED panels? If so, do they tend to be any good? I'm pondering getting some to try out.

Here are a few examples I found:

Small ones: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dimmable-CREE-LED-Recessed-Ceiling-Panel-Down-Lights-Bulb-6W-9W-12W-15W-18W-21W-/221484556251?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Lamps&var=&hash=item3391821fdb

Bigger ones:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BYB-300-300mm-12W-LED-Recessed-Panel-Ceiling-Light-Home-School-Office-UK-Stock-/111434287668?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Lighting_Lamps_Lighting_SM&hash=item19f2004a34
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-SLIM-PANEL-LIGHT-WHITE-Home-Office-School-shops-Retail-RECESSED-HANGING-/251597614355?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Lighting_Lamps_Lighting_SM&var=&hash=item3a9462ed13
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Floureon-12W-300-300-LED-Flat-Panel-Ceiling-Mount-LIGHT-Warm-White-Commercial-/151304967223?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Lighting_Lamps_Lighting_SM&hash=item233a7a9437

[jeremy]

Well, I've not used them before, but I can't see a whole lot of safety certifications on them...

[steve30]

Well, I've not used them before, but I can't see a whole lot of safety certifications on them...

Didn't notice that at first, but would it really matter for the ceiling panel itself, as that is just a low voltage DC product? I think I'd be more concerned about the mains driver which they seem to include, but at least it should be easy to scrap that and use your own if it isn't very good.

[Kjelt]

I saw a lot of those chinese suppliers at the Light and Building Fair in Frankfurt.
The quality differed enormously between suppliers, esp with the diffuser they used (can you see the leds shine through or is it a nice even lighting).
There were very good ones and bad ones, so how do you notice it when you buy on Ebay: you can't 

What is stopping you from building them yourselves with quality A leds and driver?

[steve30]

I saw a lot of those chinese suppliers at the Light and Building Fair in Frankfurt.
The quality differed enormously between suppliers, esp with the diffuser they used (can you see the leds shine through or is it a nice even lighting).
There were very good ones and bad ones, so how do you notice it when you buy on Ebay: you can't 

What is stopping you from building them yourselves with quality A leds and driver?

I would like to use some which are the 'edge lit' variety, which Dave and Doug Ford talked about in a video once. That would be rather difficult for me to make, due to the diffusing materials and heatsinking etc. I am particularly looking for thin devices with no glare, as I don't like glare and I'm short of space..

I guess I'll just have to take pot luck if I buy from ebay, but that seems to be the case anyway with cheap Chinese stuff  .

[Kjelt]

Indeed, edge lit needs a good way of reflecting the light down. In practice those "diffusers" are made from transparent plastick sheet with a lot of carefully made holes that reflect the light down. Those sheets can be bought in Europe but are rediculous expensive compared to a complete chinese fixture. So ask if you are not sure to the salesperson if he can show a picture of that diffuser and if it is edge lit.

[neslekkim]

Well, I've not used them before, but I can't see a whole lot of safety certifications on them...

Didn't notice that at first, but would it really matter for the ceiling panel itself, as that is just a low voltage DC product? I think I'd be more concerned about the mains driver which they seem to include, but at least it should be easy to scrap that and use your own if it isn't very good.

Low voltage?, most of them say AC100-240v?

[n45048]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the technical term is Wan Hung Low. 

[kolbep]

Build your own using LED Striplights.
Just take this idea :


but then rather build it on a sheet of thin alum to act as a heatsink. Stick some diffusion in front of it, and away you go.

[djococaud]

Personally, I would use aliexpress.com instead of ebay... It's still chinese low cost stuff, but a bit less scams (I hope !)...


(I would love to put a 600x300 ceiling panel vertically on a wall, close to my door, and put portal's aperture science stickers on it ! )

[bookaboo]

I saw a lot of those chinese suppliers at the Light and Building Fair in Frankfurt.
The quality differed enormously between suppliers, esp with the diffuser they used (can you see the leds shine through or is it a nice even lighting).
There were very good ones and bad ones, so how do you notice it when you buy on Ebay: you can't 

What is stopping you from building them yourselves with quality A leds and driver?

I was at the same show and had the same experience 
Basically quality varies wildly between suppliers, some customers/importers are in a race to the bottom in terms of cost so some of the China factories will use lower quality LEDs and less of them. The dangerous part is when they skimp on the driver, I've seen some awful drivers for these really basic "wun hung low" clearance and isolation errors and the associated build quality.
On the other hand there are some of these China suppliers that are up to scratch, TUV approvals, good drivers and lm/w figures that match the specifications, you just really have to do your homework on them all. We did a tear down of one China companies drivers and it was an example of good engineering, it was plastic welded so they never expected it to be seen, even so it was full of all the right stuff, genuine Rubycon caps, well insulated transformers. Even so I'd do a regular check on batches, sometimes when haggle down a price with a China supplier they were already at rock bottom so that 10% discount you get means they go and try to make the savings by reducing specification.

I'd steer clear of ebay/aliexpress China suppliers, frankly it's impossible to air ship a good quality LED panel and keep the cost competitive, a corner will be cut somewhere.
So can you rely on your local wholesaler to bring in good gear? Sometime yes sometimes no, it varies wildly and comes down to whether they care about quality or just bring in the cheapest they can find. They are probably your best bet as you can have a look at them first and take them back if they are not up to scratch.

[steve30]

I just got this 9W panel off ebay for a tenner: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310924296991?var=610253806626&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Came shipped from 'Ecommerce Transhipment Solution Ltd' in Manchester.

Its nice and bright, and very well diffused. Wouldn't say the colour rendering is very good, but then I'm very fussy about colour rendering. The actual construction of the panel is quite nice, and may be good for me to hack my own high CRI LEDs in .

The driver is so-so. Pretty much just the kind of thing you get in a retrofit bulb.

I've attached some photos showing the construction of it.

[bookaboo]

Case in point of some strange PCB routing there!
Also I forgot to mention about EMC in some of the cheaper ones, why spend $0.25 per unit extra on silly suppression caps when you can just do without radio signal in the area. Additional energy saving right there.

[metalphreak]

The WILA Transparency range is nice, but is on the opposite spectrum to the cheap Chinese LED panels 

You can see through the panel (which has an array of microprisms) which is pretty cool.