Author Topic: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations  (Read 12045 times)

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Online zucca

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2018, 06:02:02 pm »
Interesting...

Can you guys confirm me the reed switch is the way to go if the iron holder has a magnet in it? If this is the case which one to get?
Or you just use the mercury switch and that's it?
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Online bd139

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2018, 06:22:22 pm »
I use the ball switch in the hand piece. Works fine. Bonus is you can shake to wake if you need to.
 

Offline TuxKey

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2018, 07:06:07 pm »
@ bd139


i’m just trying to follow along an learn a bit..
towards that end what would happen if you put in a wrong parts for example the Mosfet??
i think i do know what can happen if there is a tip short..
seeing this youtube vid of someone replace the mosfet of the TS100 for a better or higher specked one.


will have to look if i can find a nice youtube vid that discusses “regulator power dissipation”...

Googling it did produce an interesting pdf called
Digital Designer's Guide to Linear Voltage Regulators & Thermal....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi5zOnSwfjbAhVGaFAKHSaQB_YQFggzMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Flit%2Fan%2Fslva118a%2Fslva118a.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2WdmFXk5oYFSyizpFYBAPE



ps. (i’m not going to be doing this, as i’m to much of newbie safety and all that)..
 

Online bd139

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2018, 07:24:28 pm »
Depends really. It's not a particularly demanding switching application this. It doesn't run in the linear region at all which is where most power is burned up. It basically turns on and off very quickly the rate of which determines average heating power.

The MOSFET is mostly on or off for this application. It takes a little bit of time for it to turn on and off (due to gate capacitance etc) at which point it dissipates a less than ideal amount of power which switching. When it's fully saturated, the Rds(on) of most MOSFETs is pretty low which will define overall power dissipation. So if you use a MOSFET with high Rds(on) or really high gate capacitance it'd probably burn off a lot more power and exceed the SOA.

If you get a tip short, it depends on the power supply source impedance etc. If your supply can deliver more than Ids(max) and exceeds the SOA (R(ds)*V(ds)<P(max)) then kaboom. Bits of MOSFET in your face (been there  :-DD )

If there was a tip short it'd push as much current through the S-D as the supply could kick out. Again depends on the above.

One thing to point out with MOSFETs is they tend to let the magic smoke out pretty damn quickly if you exceed the SOA. Usually before a fuse has any time to do its thing.

If you want a good reference on power supplies, look here (AoE chapter 9 is free): https://artofelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/AoE3_chapter9.pdf ... This doesn't cover this however as it's PWM switching really.
 

Offline Wirehead

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2018, 04:36:00 pm »

One thing to point out with MOSFETs is they tend to let the magic smoke out pretty damn quickly if you exceed the SOA. Usually before a fuse has any time to do its thing.

It's a well known fact that MosFET's are excellent fuse-savers  :-+  :-DD
"to remain static is to lose ground"
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2018, 07:09:13 am »
Absolutely.   >:D
 

Offline zanga

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #81 on: July 16, 2018, 04:59:33 pm »
Hello,

Does anyone know if there is any notable difference between the KSGER and the QUICKO brand soldering station?

From what I noticed the KSGER is a bit more expensive, but can't really say if it's better build.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #82 on: July 16, 2018, 05:13:00 pm »
Iv'e heard of problems with Ksger ones which cause the feedback loop to stall and the iron gets hot enough to glow red!
 

Offline zanga

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #83 on: July 17, 2018, 10:10:45 pm »
So it would be safer to go with QUICKO?
 

Online bd139

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #84 on: July 17, 2018, 10:21:44 pm »
I just bought a Metcal. That was the safest option. None of the chinese ones are safe out of the box if they are mains powered. They require modification. The Quicko one is less prone to burning up.
 
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Offline stj

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #86 on: July 19, 2018, 10:43:38 pm »
that looks like the tips stick out a lot more than the 9501.
i wonder if it gets hot?
 

Online exe

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #87 on: July 20, 2018, 12:22:56 am »
I just bought a Metcal. That was the safest option. None of the chinese ones are safe out of the box if they are mains powered. They require modification. The Quicko one is less prone to burning up.

What's wrong with them and what modification is needed? (Just in case, on mine tip is grounded, so I don't expect any problem (until I plug it without earth)). (Sorry if missed this in the thread)
 

Online bd139

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #88 on: July 20, 2018, 12:25:31 am »
Poor earthing arrangement and the IEC connector is edge soldered to the board. You can actually delaminate the board and break the traces easily just by plugging the unit in.

Forum user Specmaster modified his so it was safe if you search around.
 
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Offline CapnBry

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #89 on: July 26, 2018, 07:06:14 am »
I purchased the "KSGER STM32 2.1S" variety of this with the "alloy handle" myself because I guess I have some sort of passion for collecting soldering irons. This is the 7th soldering iron I've owned in my lifetime and the 3rd T12 style in the past 4 years. The first one (~$15 kit) was pure garbage, the second (~$40 with integrated power supply) is pretty decent but I've really gotta crank the temps to solder ground plane and power stuff (from 300C to like 370C). This third T12 version I've had for a few days and soldered for 4 or 5 hours and it is definitely the best so far. The large OLED has a lot of info on it, updates quickly, and the menus are pretty easy to get around in once you figure out tricks like press-and-turn is its own thing.

I bought it with the intention of replacing the stock firmware on it immediately, however the stock firmware seems to do it all so I am not sure if I will. It has support for like 100 different tips you can turn individually on and off. There are configurable timeouts for standby (setback to lower temp), sleep (disabling the iron), and screen saver (which floats the mode and current temp around the screen to use all the OLED pixels evenly). It has a RTC with a battery too, and although I am not sure why it needs a clock, but I was delighted to find out that Tuesday is "Thes" so that's what I'll call it from now on. The setback/standby timer can go as low as 1 minute and has SHAKE, SWITCH, MANUAL, AUTO, and OFF modes. When it is about to enter standby it chirps about once a second, then twice a second then a longer beep as it enters standby. It also beeps when it comes back up to temp after leaving standby. Too much beeping for me because I'd prefer it go into standby every time I put it in the stand, but luckily you can turn the beeper off completely.

The aluminum handle is pretty good. The only PRO really is that my hand is about 1cm closer to what I am working on and the little rubber grippy doesn't slide around on me, but the CON side is that the handle does get warmer. I did about an hour of 350C soldering and the handle got up to 37C and is hottest where you hold it. It never feels uncomfortably hot, being basically my body's temperature anyway, but my hand definitely was sweatier and grabbing the iron out of the holder it felt a little strange to be so warm. The shake senor is pretty sensitive so there hasn't been an issue with it entering standby while I'm holding it, even with a 1 minute standby delay. There was a KSGER sticker on it that came off pretty quickly to reveal "100MHz Soldering" etched under the sticker. I see on alliexpress that they don't even show this silver handle variety any more so :mep:. The one problem I had was it is so thin it just falls through my stand (and ended up melting my vacuum hose I use for hand SMD pick and place). I 3D printed a small collar that locks into the notches on the handle. It is PLA but hasn't deformed due to the heat at all yet.


One strange thing is that it takes about 6-7 seconds after you flip the power switch for it to turn on. I didn't grab the multimeter to see if this is all delay in the power supply startup, although I wish I had before I put it back together again last time. Once it is on, it heats to 300C in about 5 seconds, pulling over 70W at the wall to do so. Also bad, the tip temperature drops pretty hard when working on high thermal mass components and the output stays around 25% when doing so, so there's definitely room for improvement. Also, when hot swapping tips, the PID control is all over the place for the first 20 seconds and will continue to go bonkers until it really settles on the temperature so it is best to wait for it to stabilize before setting off.

Finally, as bd139 just pointed out, soldering the mains connector directly to the PCB definitely stresses the board from the power cord stress of plugging, unplugging, or dragging around the workbench.
 
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Offline sn4k3

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #90 on: July 26, 2018, 11:59:38 am »
Good review, i also buy that handle to upgrade my homemade OLED station.
About heat dissipation thats about station, firmware need to be tuned and set a aggressive profile for that situations.
Can you share the colar stl?
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #91 on: July 26, 2018, 02:38:52 pm »
Quote
I purchased the "KSGER STM32 2.1S" variety of this with the "alloy handle" myself because I guess I have some sort of passion for collecting soldering irons. This is the 7th soldering iron I've owned in my lifetime
That's nothin. I have 7 working stations... right now. Not including portable irons.

Thes is interesting, because it is four letters. Days of the week only need 3.
 Wedn and Satu are my favs.

I guess we have to cut slack to engineers working outside of their native language. I'm sure in some other language/market, that worked a lot better. And an h is kinda like a u, upside down. I can picture a chinese engineer finding the upside down u on an ASIC chart. :)

Warm up time of about 10 seconds is typical for Hakko T12 irons, so I think the display just takes time to do its thing. i haven't had any real trouble with my t12 clones with tip temp or thermal output. Where they are great (using 9051 style handpiece) is handpiece temp. They can do insane output without getting warm, at all. And the 9051 style handpiece has a much shorter tip to grip than that one you have... the ridge goes all the way in the handpiece.  The cheap one I use only has 3 wires, though. They don't work with all clones stations. Not sure if there's a 5 wire version for the fancy ones.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 03:08:58 pm by KL27x »
 

Online bd139

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #92 on: July 26, 2018, 05:42:42 pm »
To note on the control loop going mental to start with. That happens on mine too. Settles down nicely after a few seconds.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #93 on: July 26, 2018, 09:08:04 pm »
it would make sense that the controller goes full dc for a few seconds for fast heatup - while doing that it would be unable to read the sensor.
 

Offline CapnBry

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #94 on: July 26, 2018, 10:56:31 pm »
About heat dissipation thats about station, firmware need to be tuned and set a aggressive profile for that situations.
Can you share the colar stl?
You're right, I haven't done any of my tip calibrations yet or tried out the BOOST mode so that will probably make a big difference. I never had that option my previous irons beyond a the 1-point "set" potentiometer. My other irons don't have cold junction compensation in the handle either so I think in the long run this is going to be much more accurate.

The collar I posted on Thingiverse KSGER Soldering Iron Alloy Handle Collar.

Where they are great (using 9051 style handpiece) is handpiece temp. They can do insane output without getting warm, at all. And the 9051 style handpiece has a much shorter tip to grip than that one you have... the ridge goes all the way in the handpiece.  The cheap one I use only has 3 wires, though. They don't work with all clones stations. Not sure if there's a 5 wire version for the fancy ones.
Yeah I was torn between the 9501 and this alloy one, but the alloy handle was only like a $8 upgrade and is $29 if you try to get one just by itself so I went with that. There are a ton of 9501 handles for $15 so might as well try the alloy and spend to change $15 if I don't like it. I was unaware that some didn't have the 5 wires though, that's good to be aware of, thanks!

This unit also has a solder pump switch output on it, and a couple settings in the menu for it. Has anyone used that? I think I counted 23 vacant through holes on the controller PCB for pinheader or whatnot so it seems like it was designed to be extended or modified. Someone make a BLE solder iron detector for wireless setback activation!
 

Offline stj

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #95 on: July 27, 2018, 02:10:47 am »
you have my attention, can you link to the controller and be more specific about the menu's?
i'm looking for a good pump controller - was thinking of making one but this sounds interesting.
 

Offline CapnBry

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2018, 09:52:13 pm »
Sure, this is the KSGER T12 Station that I purchased, Set 2 with the alloy handle. The photo now there shows a black completely different handle for Set 2 though. You'll see in one of the photos the controller PCB has what looks like a JST-PH 2.0mm connector on it labeled "PUMP".

The two pump menu items are:
  • Desolder mode: Inching or Valve
  • Pump Setup On Time: 10s - 60s
 

Offline ebclr

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Offline stj

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #98 on: July 29, 2018, 03:23:27 am »
the "setup time" makes no sense, i suspect it's for a hot air station.
 

Offline CapnBry

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Re: Cheap T12 clone soldering stations
« Reply #99 on: July 31, 2018, 05:23:15 am »
the "setup time" makes no sense, i suspect it's for a hot air station.
The words are spread across two lines so I think the first part is the menu title "Pump Setup" and then option is "On Time". I definitely do not understand how it works though, what activates the pump? When it detects the shake sensor or is it smart like it notices the power usage shoot up when you're on a joint?
 


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