Cheap T12 clone soldering stations

[bd139]

My usual daily driver iron is a relatively new Weller TCP station. I use this for just about everything and it just works. I've used the same type of iron for about 25 years. However I fancied a go at one of the T12's as discussed on the TEA thread, mainly because they look pretty simple, are very cheap and deliver a lot of power in a tiny handpiece. It'd be nice to see what a station 13x less cost than my TCP is actually like. So for the measly price of £16 ($4 discount) I nabbed one of these from Aliexpress just to see. I'll drive it off a spare Lenovo 20V 90W charger I have lying around. It's a few steps above the old Hakko 936/937 clones which weren't particularly wonderful but did the job.

I grabbed: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

What should I expect?  Any hints, tips, gotchas etc?

Intention is to play with it to start with, knock up a couple of boards and see how it goes. Possibly get a genuine Hakko tip for it rather than a clone one if they suck.

[stj]

the best tip i can give is to junk the handle.
it's a converted 900series and the ergonomics are terrible.

get an fx9501 handle - you can find them on ali for as little as $5 without any cable.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SHEVCHENKO-T12-950-Handle-Digital-Soldering-Station-FX-9501-Handle-Soldering-Iron-For-HAKKO-912-Handle/32835065313.html

[bd139]

Thanks I suspected as much. I assume the 9501 handle is just a case of swapping the cable over?

(After working out pinouts etc)?

[stj]

yes, just as well you have another iron! 
something i always tell people who dont have a backup, after i learned the hard way when my first iron needed a new element. 

[bd139]

Yeah been there. Once I had just an Aoyue 937 and the element went pop. That was fun 

Have Weller and Antex irons now. I like the look of the T12 as it has decent, cheap tips suitable for SMD work.

Have ordered that 9501 handle kit. Costs about 15 cents more than it'd cost for just the postage to send the kit in the UK! 

[pigrew]

Buy authentic tips, as the Chinese tips wear out quickly. I too don't like the included handles: needing to unscrew a nut to change tips is annoying and the tip to hand distance is longer than the Hakko handle.

The Hakko handles use a different connector, and don't have a sleep switch in the handle. The Hakko ones use a switch in the iron holder. You probably should just stick with the cloned handles so that you don't have to deal with these incompatibilities. I believe they both have an NTC RTD in the handle for cold-junction compensation (correct me if I'm wrong), but I don't know if it's the same temperature curve.

[stj]

you are wrong.
firstly there is no standard for the connector - annoyingly.
the bakon is 3pin, some kits are 4pin and others are 5pin.
i think hakko is 7pin but whatever the pin count they use a cheap din-plug instead of a microphone / aviation plug.

there is no compensation in the handle - it would be heated by your hand if there was - and not all irons have a tilt-switch either.

[stj]

btw, what tip styles did you order?
i mostly use an ILS (needle point) and a BL (cone)
i also have a D (screwdriver style) for getting a lot of heat into stuff.

i have others too, but those are the ones that get used.
best place for decent tip sets is banggood.

[bd139]

I am just going to play with the K tip that comes with it for now. I will grab a small chisel and conical tip at some point if I like it.

[stj]

did you read your link?
they say to specify what tip you want when ordering!

[bd139]

Yeah says default T12-K which is what I want. I’ve got a whole board of SOIC packages to do

[thm_w]

you are wrong.
firstly there is no standard for the connector - annoyingly.
the bakon is 3pin, some kits are 4pin and others are 5pin.
i think hakko is 7pin but whatever the pin count they use a cheap din-plug instead of a microphone / aviation plug.

there is no compensation in the handle - it would be heated by your hand if there was - and not all irons have a tilt-switch either.

The FX-9501 handle I purchased contained a glass NTC in the handle. Although it was a complete assembly for a few dollars more, not a kit like the link above.
If its 4 pin it uses an on board NTC.

I got these tips, as I used similar metcal versions often: D52 D24 D12 BCF3 JL02.

This looks like a great kit as you don't have to worry about the grounding safety of the built in AC/DC converter. However.. that means there is no earth connection, so its not ESD safe, as most plug packs are isolated.

[bd139]

With respect to ESD safety I’m going to add a 4mm jack in the back panel and plug it into my power supply Earth with a 4mm patch.

[stj]

stick a 1meg or 2.2meg resistor in series.
i'v seen some nasty damage before from people desoldering charged capacitors!!

[thm_w]

One of my tips just died, heater went open circuit (T12-D52). It had only been used for a few hours.
I'm thinking the tip was defective to begin with as the fit was too tight compared to the rest. Although I did have it at 400C when it died.

Seller has promised to send another (https://quicko.aliexpress.com/store/2954088), which is great as they have no obligation to. Will see if I get it, hopefully lasts longer..

[bd139]

Doh. I'm going to order a few tips once it turns up. Looking at Monday next week so far.

[bd139]

Handle arrived. Still awaiting rest of it!

[ChrisGreece52]

I just got mine it works pretty well but there is no info on it,manual,datasheet,firmware info.

[bd139]

Mine arrived in the end. It's pretty good. No complaints. I managed to crash it once though.

[ChrisGreece52]

Its pretty good i have to say but the STC MCU firmware cannot be found or updated easily.

[JS]

Just ordered one, trying to change for the 9501 handle if I can, 5 tips kit plus two holllow ones for drag...

I'll let you know when I test it.

JS

[Nagasyev]

Sometimes it is better to buy a little bit expensive but more reliable https://toolboom.com/en/mini-soldering-station-goot-px-601/

[thm_w]

Sometimes it is better to buy a little bit expensive but more reliable https://toolboom.com/en/mini-soldering-station-goot-px-601/

That looks worse in every possible way, sorry.

[Nagasyev]

Don't You mind to name reasons why?

[tszaboo]

Don't You mind to name reasons why?

Not a cartridge heater but simple tip, no display, non replaceable handle. And it is still a chinatek brand.

I've been looking at these stations myself, though I would prefer the 230V input version. Probably you need to mod in the earth connection.

btw, does anyone know, why the chinese have hard time telling the difference between welding and soldering?

[Wirehead]

Just received mine yesterday (KSger 2.1 STM32 with the 9501 handle, powered by 19V DC) but did buy some genuine Hakko tips.. Have tested the 1.6mm chisel on large groundplanes (Icom 7000 transceiver - driver replacement).

I do have to say, excellent thermal recovery. Boost function is very handy. The handle has the cold junction NTC and the reed switch. Works great when coming out of stand-by/sleep.
The addition of the RTC is nice as well. Comes with a lot of tip profiles. I don't think there's a better deal for the money...

[nanofrog]

I can certainly understand the interest in this station in the UK and EU (other places too) given the prices of decent stations there, but they lack a decent stand.

Looking around, the Hakko 633-1 would be worth a look IMHO (quite reasonably priced, and it comes with a 599B brass wool cleaner). Weighs 380g, so definitely heavier than the scrap bit of disposable aluminum pie plate that comes with the T12 stations.   

Potential sources:

• Batterfly.com
• eBay UK, eBay NL, (presume it'd be available on other eBay sites)
• Rakuten.com (not the easiest source, but possible)

[Wirehead]

Correct, been on the lookout as well.. question is: will the 9501 fit.. Because it's balance point is different, also a much smaller "flange" where you keep your fingers..

edit: the FH200-01 should fit that one, except it's 60$... more than the station 

[nanofrog]

Correct, been on the lookout as well.. question is: will the 9501 fit.. Because it's balance point is different, also a much smaller "flange" where you keep your fingers..

edit: the FH200-01 should fit that one, except it's 60$... more than the station 

The 633 is made for the self-enclosed desolder pumps (FR-300, FR-301 types).

In the case of the 9501 (or other irons I've seen available), I can't see how it wouldn't work for a T12 station iron. 

[Wirehead]

Well, if the holder isn't really made for the dimension of that handle - it causes the tip to constantly touch the metal of the stand. (and thus constant unnecessary heating/temperature compensation..)

.. and it looks like sh*t if it's dangling around.. 

[nanofrog]

Well, if the holder isn't really made for the dimension of that handle - it causes the tip to constantly touch the metal of the stand. (and thus constant unnecessary heating/temperature compensation..)

I suspect it would touch the metal portion. And this would be the case with a lot of other stands too, such as the wire spring looking types (i.e. most common type for generic/non-iron specific stands IME).



You'd need one that's open on the top, such as the Weller WDH-10 ($50.52 + shipping and VAT). Even with these however, the hole is larger than the diameter of the business end of the iron for easy insertion (makes it a bit sloppy, but not so much the iron falls out). It just floats in air rather than making contact with metal. The downside of course, is it's more expensive.



As per unnecessary heating, quite possible. I don't know if the lack of motion would affect the heating cycle or not with that iron if it's making contact with a heat sink (or stand in this case). 

[KL27x]

(makes it a bit sloppy, but not so much the iron falls out). It just floats in air rather than making contact with metal. The downside of course, is it's more expensive.

It looks like there's a slot where the wire goes. Maybe it's adjustable, or at least removeable and replaceable with a better fitting widget.



FWIW, it is really easy to make a T12 iron holder that doesn't wiggle, at all. The diameter of the handpiece is exactly 3/4".

3/4" forstner bit, 5/8" bit, a piece of hardwood board standard 3/4" thick, a piece of thin sheet metal. Drill the 3/4" hole a 1/2" deep. Drill out the rest of the way with the 5/8" bit. Chamfer the opening and sand/ream out the 3/4" hole until it's snug as you want. Cut a V notch in the sheet metal and screw it to the back. Adjust it so that the iron is perfectly perpendicular and straight, handle tucked in the 3/4" hole, and the sheet metal preventing the iron from drooping. Same idea as the wire on the expensive holder, but you can remove all wiggle up/down and sidewards.

[nanofrog]

(makes it a bit sloppy, but not so much the iron falls out). It just floats in air rather than making contact with metal. The downside of course, is it's more expensive.

It looks like there's a slot where the wire goes. Maybe it's adjustable, or at least removable and replaceable with a better fitting widget.

There is a slot. The wire makes a U shape (squared at the corners), which fits into said slot and is inserted all the way down. I don't see any advantage of inverting it, or only partially inserted (not bottomed out).

That said, it would be possible to drill out the plastic to 1/2" if you need it to be larger. But as we're talking about T12/T15 tip cartridges, the existing size would work very well. I say this as they're similar in diameter to the WMP I use, which has never fallen out on me.

For the record, I own a WDH-10, WDH-20, and WDH-20T. The differences between the basic 10 & 20 models is the tip holders; everything else is identical. The T variant is the switched version to get full setback features.

FWIW, it is really easy to make a T12 iron holder that doesn't wiggle, at all. The diameter of the handpiece is exactly 3/4".

3/4" forstner bit, 5/8" bit, a piece of hardwood board standard 3/4" thick, a piece of thin sheet metal. Drill the 3/4" hole a 1/2" deep. Drill out the rest of the way with the 5/8" bit. Chamfer the opening and sand/ream out the 3/4" hole until it's snug as you want. Cut a V notch in the sheet metal and screw it to the back. Adjust it so that the iron is perfectly perpendicular and straight, handle tucked in the 3/4" hole, and the sheet metal preventing the iron from drooping. Same idea as the wire on the expensive holder, but you can remove all wiggle up/down and sidewards.

Certainly possible to DIY something.

I would suggest making the base weighted so it's less likely to fall over, as well as provision for either a sponge or brass wool (IIRC, the 599B is 2" in diameter).

[KL27x]

  Missed the whole 9501 thing.  Carry on.

[Wirehead]

Well, apparently they make holders as well those chinese guys 

Winner 

[nanofrog]

Well, apparently they make holders as well those chinese guys 

Winner 

For $12.99, I say give it a go, and add a genuine 599B (6EUR + VAT & shipping).

Just have to wait and see if it's made out of metal  (which I think it is).

[Wirehead]

Well, apparently they make holders as well those chinese guys 

Winner 

For $12.99, I say give it a go, and add a genuine 599B (6EUR + VAT & shipping).

Just have to wait and see if it's made out of metal  (which I think it is).

I actually had a look online to buy the original FH200-01.. It's available *nowhere* in Europe 
Even if I want to throw money at a stand, it's nowhere avail..  What the f*

[thm_w]

btw, does anyone know, why the chinese have hard time telling the difference between welding and soldering?

If you google translate soldering -> 焊接, then if you translate that back to english it says "welding".
So it seems like the same word might be used interchangeably in chinese.

[tszaboo]

btw, does anyone know, why the chinese have hard time telling the difference between welding and soldering?

If you google translate soldering -> 焊接, then if you translate that back to english it says "welding".
So it seems like the same word might be used interchangeably in chinese.

Hence I'm saying all the time to just use english for any technical documents. Some words doesnt even exist in many languages, and there are very few which would have a proper, complete vocabulary for technical terms.

[bd139]

Well, apparently they make holders as well those chinese guys 

Winner 

Those are fucking shit. Don’t even go there. Mine went straight in the bin and claimed. Didn’t work, was made out of chinesium and half the paint was missing.

Actually I’m going to stop buying shit off aliexpress now. Lots of disappointments recently.

[nanofrog]

Well, apparently they make holders as well those chinese guys 

Winner 

Those are fucking shit. Don’t even go there. Mine went straight in the bin and claimed. Didn’t work, was made out of chinesium and half the paint was missing.

Actually I’m going to stop buying shit off aliexpress now. Lots of disappointments recently.

So you're saying...



  

[bd139]

I was thinking more



 

[KL27x]

If you're lucky, the micro pencil is also a standard SAE tool bit diameter. If you don't want to spend twice the cost of the station, you can spend a little elbow grease.
[Imgur](

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No droop!
[[Imgur](

)

No sideways wiggle!
[Imgur](

)

The steel plate gets a bit warm, but no fires, either!

And it's infinitely adjustable for your preferred presentation angle.
[Imgur](

)

Coiled spring holders is gahbage.

This is a little fancier than what I described, earlier. But it's overkill. It works just fine the way I described, before.

[nanofrog]

Never thought I'd see a mummified soldering iron.   

[KL27x]

^I don't like the dragonfly shape of the 2028. I often need to reach out a bit farther, for population of SMD boards, and the abrupt change to super skinny diameter just doesn't work for me. I also don't like the little bit of wiggle between the two halves (at least on the clones; dunno if the genuine is better fit) or the loosey spinny of the tips. So my handpiece doesn't come apart, anymore.

I tapered the yellow foamy part with a sharp knife. I used the self-sealing silicone electrical tape, and it is surprisingly perfect in function. It doesn't collect any lint like I was afraid it might, and it gives a nice grip that isn't sticky and doesn't ooze residue around the edges of the tape. Just don't go too tight, or you can damage the tips when trying to change them. I destroyed one tip trying for too much tension; ripped one of the contact rings right off!

[Wirehead]

If you're lucky, the micro pencil is also a standard SAE tool bit diameter. If you don't want to spend twice the cost of the station, you can spend a little elbow grease.

No droop!


No sideways wiggle!

The steel plate gets a bit warm, but no fires, either!

And it's infinitely adjustable for your preferred presentation angle.


Coiled spring holders is gahbage.

This is a little fancier than what I described, earlier. But it's overkill. It works just fine the way I described, before.

That looks allright... not a bad idea. Altough I'll make mine out a chunk 'o metal.

I was thinking more



 

Thanks for the "user experience" you've had with these 

[thmjpr]

New aluminum handle spotted: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-New-Arrival-Aluminum-alloy-T12-handle-for-OLED-LED-DIY-Digital-Electric-Soldering-Irons-Set/
Looks really promising other than having to wire it up and the rubber grip to tip distance is a bit long.

Searching for "100MHz soldering station" or "D-Acme" didn't find any more info, at least on english sites.
Credit to defpom youtube channel.

[stj]

the ali-express link is incomplete.

[bd139]

Not sure I'd want a metal one. The plastic one gets hot enough as it is.

[TuxKey]

guys i just found this station yesterday ..


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KSGER-Aluminum-Alloy-Handle-T12-STM32-OLED-Soldering-Iron-Station-V3-0-DIY-Electric-Tools-Stings/32878522554.html


i like it because of the following..

1) bring your own 24v power supply , good because i don't trust cheap Chinese power supplies..
2) compatible with T12 tips , so i can get fine chisel tips.
3) according to seller uses 5.5*2.5 power connector..

the bad thing is that i asked the only guy i could find on youtube that reviewed this unit a Russian speaking guy about the unit.
and he complained about the v3.0 firmware being buggy.. i asked the seller about self updating it and they said it's not possible.

strange i thought one could use this gadget to self update it ??

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Emulator-Downloader-Programmer-ST-Link-V2-STM8-STM32-OLED-DIY-Kits-T12-Electronic-Welding-Iron-Tips/32820881304.html

perhaps it's worth the gamble for €50 shipped..

[bd139]

I've got one of the small ones but made by Quicko. I stuffed it in a bigger box and put a shitty boost converter in it so it always delivers fast heat up to the tip. Works nicely



And on the usual power supply:



Fuck off great big diode I put in there to stop me cocking it up gets a bit toasty though on initial warm up.

[thm_w]

Proper link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-New-Arrival-Aluminum-alloy-T12-handle-for-OLED-LED-DIY-Digital-Electric-Soldering-Irons-Set/32874257524.html

Not sure I'd want a metal one. The plastic one gets hot enough as it is.

If you've ever used a metcal handle its aluminum as well and doesn't really heat up at all. I think its all about the design and not the material exclusively.
Inside this T12 one there appears to be a plastic insulating material of some kind.

[TuxKey]

I've got one of the small ones but made by Quicko. I stuffed it in a bigger box and put a shitty boost converter in it so it always delivers fast heat up to the tip. Works nicely

And on the usual power supply:

Fuck off great big diode I put in there to stop me cocking it up gets a bit toasty though on initial warm up.

Do you mean this one ?
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/2954088_32839523934.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.726c79e8WLCUe2

Seems like the connector size is 5.5*2.1 and not 5.5*2.5 like the seller is telling me ..
i know the KSGER is a different name but u would think the differences are minim..
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KSGER-Aluminum-Alloy-Handle-T12-STM32-OLED-Soldering-Iron-Station-V3-0-DIY-Electric-Tools-Stings/32878522554.html

strange btw yours looks different.. i know the boost converter part is what you added i asume it's the red pcb with all the nice parts ;-)
yah 40+yr noob here hahah

[TuxKey]

i think i just found your unit..

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/QUICKO-MINI-T12-STC-OLED-Digital-soldering-station-942-electronic-soder-iron-with-9501-handle-power/2954088_32857152188.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.7b013d63sc9Gk1

[bd139]

Proper link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-New-Arrival-Aluminum-alloy-T12-handle-for-OLED-LED-DIY-Digital-Electric-Soldering-Irons-Set/32874257524.html

Not sure I'd want a metal one. The plastic one gets hot enough as it is.

If you've ever used a metcal handle its aluminum as well and doesn't really heat up at all. I think its all about the design and not the material exclusively.
Inside this T12 one there appears to be a plastic insulating material of some kind.

I’ve used a metcal. This isn’t a metcal

i think i just found your unit..

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/QUICKO-MINI-T12-STC-OLED-Digital-soldering-station-942-electronic-soder-iron-with-9501-handle-power/2954088_32857152188.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.7b013d63sc9Gk1

That’s the one.

I've got one of the small ones but made by Quicko. I stuffed it in a bigger box and put a shitty boost converter in it so it always delivers fast heat up to the tip. Works nicely

And on the usual power supply:

Fuck off great big diode I put in there to stop me cocking it up gets a bit toasty though on initial warm up.

Do you mean this one ?
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/2954088_32839523934.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.726c79e8WLCUe2

Seems like the connector size is 5.5*2.1 and not 5.5*2.5 like the seller is telling me ..
i know the KSGER is a different name but u would think the differences are minim..
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KSGER-Aluminum-Alloy-Handle-T12-STM32-OLED-Soldering-Iron-Station-V3-0-DIY-Electric-Tools-Stings/32878522554.html

strange btw yours looks different.. i know the boost converter part is what you added i asume it's the red pcb with all the nice parts ;-)
yah 40+yr noob here hahah

That’s the unit. Differences are likely minimal. The boost converter is indeed the red PCB. Think it was $2 or so. If you stuff it on a power supply that doesn’t source enough current it makes a sound like a squealing pig. I’ve got it on a 30A comms supply or car battery.

[TuxKey]

does anyone know what this is for
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Emulator-Downloader-Programmer-ST-Link-V2-STM8-STM32-OLED-DIY-Kits-T12-Electronic-Welding-Iron-Tips/1486111_32820881304.html?spm=2114.12010612/itm2home-1.0.0.3d5096f1bqlVp6

my first thought is that it's for firmware updating ??
but the seller of ksger mini model i showed mentioned a password.

quote:
 The soldering station display will not need the code,only when buyer want to crack the program,it will need the code.so i want to warn you,donot want to crack the program,i will not provide the code for you.
 
Donot ask me for the code.Because you are not honest buyer.

end quote ..

[TuxKey]

think i need to find myself an adapter set for all these different size plugs.. one that can fit over one size and make it compatible with others..

i would never buy a power supply from aliexpress hahaha..

btw these soldering tips on aliexpress same store as the one selling your soldering station..
Look awesome ..high grade ?? Just checked Hakko site and they also sell a Z type (Long Life Type) . these are around €17 or more in The Netherlands.
So the €6,50 is 50% less..now i really want to tryout one of these small units next to my TS100..grrrr only need to fix the power supply issue

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/T12-D16-high-shaped-tip-T12-Series-Soldering-Iron-Tips/2954088_32800374536.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.1e7d30b6OK3EpN

perhaps i can just remove the power plug unit and replace it with a 5.5*2.5 one ?? don't know if that's difficult to do..
Otherwise i just order the plugs needed to make a small extension cable with female plug so i don't need to cut my brand new meanwell power supply

[bd139]

Since i took the photos above I ground the shitty DC jack out with a Dremel and stuffed a pair of Anderson power poles in. Trying to standardise on them. I use a power pole to 4mm patch lead for it.

DC jacks are horrid.

I would never buy a power supply from aliexpress either. The T12s with the switchers built in are dangerous as hell.

[TuxKey]

Since i took the photos above I ground the shitty DC jack out with a Dremel and stuffed a pair of Anderson power poles in. Trying to standardise on them. I use a power pole to 4mm patch lead for it.

DC jacks are horrid.

I would never buy a power supply from aliexpress either. The T12s with the switchers built in are dangerous as hell.

i feel like such a noob never heard of "Anderson power poles" had to google it hahaha thanks for the learning moment..
first hit was this vid on youtube..
https://youtu.be/QzLvdR6X81k

[TuxKey]

@bd139 so i compared the model you have and the one i had on my list..
And i saw that the one yours had a couple of positive reviews on Aliexpress unlike the one i had on my list that had no reviews at all.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32857152188.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.22182e0eVjkYiI

one question is the iron ESD save , is there continuity between the tip and the grounding ?
i see only two wires connected to the jack but that doesn't mean anything.

One problem is that i don't have a 5.5*2.1 mm dc jack..
But i think that i found the correct jack so i could buy it an replace it ?
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/pc-gm2.5/dc-power-connectors/ninigi/

or do you recommend this one a 3 prong one but then again how would i connect it ?? i think that's all to complicated.
And the first option would be the better one..
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/fc681474/dc-power-connectors/cliff/

any tips suggestions ??

[bd139]

The tip was floating on mine. I connected it to the negative lead on the DC in which is connected to earth on my power supply. You could do that or stick a 4mm binding post on the back and bring it out to that. Then you can use it for both ESD safe and floating work.

That jack looks about right.

I’d go for the two pole jack and connect one side to tip or add a binding post so you can choose.

[TuxKey]

thanks    bd139

will add that jack to my order.. happy i waited with my tme.eu order.. because shipping is €9 ..i'm not getting the soldering station right away..
but i'm sure i'l get it later on.. so one or two of those jacks could come in handy..


The Quicko mini T12 942 with 9501 handle is €23,33 they say it's 30% off now..that sounds like a good deal.
The main reason why i want this station is because the chisel tip on my TS100 is way to big..
one of these tips would be awesome..

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/T12-D16-high-shaped-tip-T12-Series-Soldering-Iron-Tips/32800374536.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.41b22e0eM8LwdM

[bd139]

I mostly use the K tip that came with it to be honest. Makes short work of pretty much everything.

[TuxKey]

The tip was floating on mine. I connected it to the negative lead on the DC in which is connected to earth on my power supply. You could do that or stick a 4mm binding post on the back and bring it out to that. Then you can use it for both ESD safe and floating work.

That jack looks about right.

I’d go for the two pole jack and connect one side to tip or add a binding post so you can choose.

so the quickest way to make sure it's not a floating tip is to see if there is a connection between the black wire (dc jack) and the soldering tip. that round connector next to the pcb..
just making sure i understand you correctly ..bit of a noob.just a it nurd..
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1nWpBdY1YBuNjSszhq6AUsFXaa.jpg

[bd139]

Yeah that assumes whatever you are connecting it to is grounded of course though.

[Calambres]

btw these soldering tips on aliexpress same store as the one selling your soldering station..
Look awesome ..high grade ?? Just checked Hakko site and they also sell a Z type (Long Life Type) . these are around €17 or more in The Netherlands.
So the €6,50 is 50% less..now i really want to tryout one of these small units next to my TS100..grrrr only need to fix the power supply issue

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/T12-D16-high-shaped-tip-T12-Series-Soldering-Iron-Tips/2954088_32800374536.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.1e7d30b6OK3EpN

I have that tip and it works very, very well. It's my most used tip by far.

[TuxKey]

Yeah that assumes whatever you are connecting it to is grounded of course though.

i figured as much. at least that's something i can check with my simple Lidl multimeter hahha.

[TuxKey]

btw these soldering tips on aliexpress same store as the one selling your soldering station..
Look awesome ..high grade ?? Just checked Hakko site and they also sell a Z type (Long Life Type) . these are around €17 or more in The Netherlands.
So the €6,50 is 50% less..now i really want to tryout one of these small units next to my TS100..grrrr only need to fix the power supply issue

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/T12-D16-high-shaped-tip-T12-Series-Soldering-Iron-Tips/2954088_32800374536.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.1e7d30b6OK3EpN

I have that tip and it works very, very well. It's my most used tip by far.

cool thanks for the info.. sounds good.. now it's even harder not to get this iron hahaha..
I used my TS100 a couple of times now and find the tip way way to big.. the equivalent would be the T12-D24 that's the smallest one they have.. for soldering true hole mechanical keyboards that's a tad to big.. you could manage but D16 would be better..
Already emailed the TS100 manufacture and told them this but i don't expect anything soon.. so this station with that nice tips 

[TuxKey]

one thing i'm curios about.. how does the standard handle 9501 perform ? does it get hot ..what's the added benefit of the new two times more expensive metal one ?? i think the price is a tad on the high side it's €20,38 while the soldering station with the 9501 costs €23,33

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32874257524.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.64072e0eqp5AD7


oh yah before i forget is it worth it to get a spare handle ?? i was looking around on Aliexpress if its hard to get a handle..
but to be honest i got a bit confused searching for 9501 also a couple of hits looked a bit flimsy to say the least hahaha 

[bd139]

I have a 9501 handle. Much nicer than the other ones. Gets a bit warm but that’s it. About same as my Weller WTCP handle. It’s much thinner, and you can get closer to the work and in all the right spots inside something than the other plastic body. Not sure I’d be happy with a metal handle; wouldn’t be nice to use for long periods plus may get hotter.

[thm_w]

one thing i'm curios about.. how does the standard handle 9501 perform ? does it get hot ..what's the added benefit of the new two times more expensive metal one ?? i think the price is a tad on the high side it's €20,38 while the soldering station with the 9501 costs €23,33

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32874257524.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.64072e0eqp5AD7


oh yah before i forget is it worth it to get a spare handle ?? i was looking around on Aliexpress if its hard to get a handle..
but to be honest i got a bit confused searching for 9501 also a couple of hits looked a bit flimsy to say the least hahaha 

The 9501 handle performs fine, fairly thin and handle is close to the tip. For me it doesn't get warm but I use sleep mode and haven't used it for an extended time.

The metal, without reviews there isn't a good reason to buy it. There is the potential for it to be even thinner than plastic and be more rigid (less flex if you are pushing with the handle), but wouldn't know until someone compares them.

[Calambres]

The 9501 handle performs fine, fairly thin and handle is close to the tip. For me it doesn't get warm but I use sleep mode and haven't used it for an extended time.

Ditto, and I have indeed used it for long periods of time without issues. I'm very happy with this soldering station.

[TuxKey]

Tahnks guys , i'm really curios about this station.. not because i can't go without it as i just got the TS100..

But besides this great forum there are no real easy to watch reviews on youtube.. comparing both.
i'm not a content creator hahaha but i like the idea of sharing affordable hardware with others so i think i'l order the kit and
change the dc port with this one
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/pc-gm2.5/dc-power-connectors/ninigi/

This is my shopping list for this T12 clone am i forgetting anything ?? ps i'm going to ad $3 for an upgraded tip will add the link in the list..

base for the iron: €8,86
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Black-Hakko-T12-Soldering-Iron-Tips-Holder-With-2pcs-Sponge/32801890334.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.7cb82e0eepQtOv

station: €23,33
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32857152188.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.7cb82e0eepQtOv

thin high grade tip: €6,04 (i upgrade to it for $3
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/T12-D16-high-shaped-tip-T12-Series-Soldering-Iron-Tips/32800374536.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.7cb82e0eepQtOv


Total cost give or take €1 ..€35,19  ad to that €3 for the dc socket ..€39 well worth the gamble..
will order later today .. if i don't hear anything from you guys 

[hary]

Hi

Any chance we could power one of these iron directly from a 24V battery (which can sometime reach 29V when charging).
I mean directly, without the need of adding a buck converter ? (or boost as in this case)

I've got one of the small ones but made by Quicko. I stuffed it in a bigger box and put a shitty boost converter in it so it always delivers fast heat up to the tip. Works nicely



And on the usual power supply:



Fuck off great big diode I put in there to stop me cocking it up gets a bit toasty though on initial warm up.

[bd139]

It’s only rated to 24V so YMMV. Depends how close to the line they designed the thing.

Fundamentally it’s a voltage reg that powers all the digital and analogue stuff and then a switching MOSFET which turns the element on and off and that’s about it. The worries would be regulator power dissipation and the MOSFET used.

[Zucca]

Interesting...

Can you guys confirm me the reed switch is the way to go if the iron holder has a magnet in it? If this is the case which one to get?
Or you just use the mercury switch and that's it?

[bd139]

I use the ball switch in the hand piece. Works fine. Bonus is you can shake to wake if you need to.

[TuxKey]

@ bd139


i’m just trying to follow along an learn a bit..
towards that end what would happen if you put in a wrong parts for example the Mosfet??
i think i do know what can happen if there is a tip short..
seeing this youtube vid of someone replace the mosfet of the TS100 for a better or higher specked one.
https://youtu.be/g-xXSJagz_A

will have to look if i can find a nice youtube vid that discusses “regulator power dissipation”...

Googling it did produce an interesting pdf called
Digital Designer's Guide to Linear Voltage Regulators & Thermal....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi5zOnSwfjbAhVGaFAKHSaQB_YQFggzMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Flit%2Fan%2Fslva118a%2Fslva118a.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2WdmFXk5oYFSyizpFYBAPE



ps. (i’m not going to be doing this, as i’m to much of newbie safety and all that)..

[bd139]

Depends really. It's not a particularly demanding switching application this. It doesn't run in the linear region at all which is where most power is burned up. It basically turns on and off very quickly the rate of which determines average heating power.

The MOSFET is mostly on or off for this application. It takes a little bit of time for it to turn on and off (due to gate capacitance etc) at which point it dissipates a less than ideal amount of power which switching. When it's fully saturated, the Rds(on) of most MOSFETs is pretty low which will define overall power dissipation. So if you use a MOSFET with high Rds(on) or really high gate capacitance it'd probably burn off a lot more power and exceed the SOA.

If you get a tip short, it depends on the power supply source impedance etc. If your supply can deliver more than Ids(max) and exceeds the SOA (R(ds)*V(ds)<P(max)) then kaboom. Bits of MOSFET in your face (been there  )

If there was a tip short it'd push as much current through the S-D as the supply could kick out. Again depends on the above.

One thing to point out with MOSFETs is they tend to let the magic smoke out pretty damn quickly if you exceed the SOA. Usually before a fuse has any time to do its thing.

If you want a good reference on power supplies, look here (AoE chapter 9 is free): https://artofelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/AoE3_chapter9.pdf ... This doesn't cover this however as it's PWM switching really.

[Wirehead]

One thing to point out with MOSFETs is they tend to let the magic smoke out pretty damn quickly if you exceed the SOA. Usually before a fuse has any time to do its thing.

It's a well known fact that MosFET's are excellent fuse-savers   

[nanofrog]

Absolutely.   

[zanga]

Hello,

Does anyone know if there is any notable difference between the KSGER and the QUICKO brand soldering station?

From what I noticed the KSGER is a bit more expensive, but can't really say if it's better build.

[bd139]

Iv'e heard of problems with Ksger ones which cause the feedback loop to stall and the iron gets hot enough to glow red!

[zanga]

So it would be safer to go with QUICKO?

[bd139]

I just bought a Metcal. That was the safest option. None of the chinese ones are safe out of the box if they are mains powered. They require modification. The Quicko one is less prone to burning up.

[Zimphire]

the best tip i can give is to junk the handle.
it's a converted 900series and the ergonomics are terrible.

get an fx9501 handle - you can find them on ali for as little as $5 without any cable.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SHEVCHENKO-T12-950-Handle-Digital-Soldering-Station-FX-9501-Handle-Soldering-Iron-For-HAKKO-912-Handle/32835065313.html

I have this one and like it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2018-KSGER-New-Lead-Free-T12-STM32-OLED-Alloy-Temperature-Controller-Soldering-Irons-Handle/3661053_32871859064.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.304.b2b86894iKmrQf&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10151_10065_10344_10130_10068_10324_10547_10342_10325_10546_10343_10340_10548_10341_10545_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_10059_100031_10103_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620,searchweb201603_45,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=75918d6b-c56b-4fdf-9d2b-beb7fb7c6a68-42&algo_pvid=75918d6b-c56b-4fdf-9d2b-beb7fb7c6a68&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0

[stj]

that looks like the tips stick out a lot more than the 9501.
i wonder if it gets hot?

[exe]

I just bought a Metcal. That was the safest option. None of the chinese ones are safe out of the box if they are mains powered. They require modification. The Quicko one is less prone to burning up.

What's wrong with them and what modification is needed? (Just in case, on mine tip is grounded, so I don't expect any problem (until I plug it without earth)). (Sorry if missed this in the thread)

[bd139]

Poor earthing arrangement and the IEC connector is edge soldered to the board. You can actually delaminate the board and break the traces easily just by plugging the unit in.

Forum user Specmaster modified his so it was safe if you search around.

[CapnBry]

I purchased the "KSGER STM32 2.1S" variety of this with the "alloy handle" myself because I guess I have some sort of passion for collecting soldering irons. This is the 7th soldering iron I've owned in my lifetime and the 3rd T12 style in the past 4 years. The first one (~$15 kit) was pure garbage, the second (~$40 with integrated power supply) is pretty decent but I've really gotta crank the temps to solder ground plane and power stuff (from 300C to like 370C). This third T12 version I've had for a few days and soldered for 4 or 5 hours and it is definitely the best so far. The large OLED has a lot of info on it, updates quickly, and the menus are pretty easy to get around in once you figure out tricks like press-and-turn is its own thing.

I bought it with the intention of replacing the stock firmware on it immediately, however the stock firmware seems to do it all so I am not sure if I will. It has support for like 100 different tips you can turn individually on and off. There are configurable timeouts for standby (setback to lower temp), sleep (disabling the iron), and screen saver (which floats the mode and current temp around the screen to use all the OLED pixels evenly). It has a RTC with a battery too, and although I am not sure why it needs a clock, but I was delighted to find out that Tuesday is "Thes" so that's what I'll call it from now on. The setback/standby timer can go as low as 1 minute and has SHAKE, SWITCH, MANUAL, AUTO, and OFF modes. When it is about to enter standby it chirps about once a second, then twice a second then a longer beep as it enters standby. It also beeps when it comes back up to temp after leaving standby. Too much beeping for me because I'd prefer it go into standby every time I put it in the stand, but luckily you can turn the beeper off completely.

The aluminum handle is pretty good. The only PRO really is that my hand is about 1cm closer to what I am working on and the little rubber grippy doesn't slide around on me, but the CON side is that the handle does get warmer. I did about an hour of 350C soldering and the handle got up to 37C and is hottest where you hold it. It never feels uncomfortably hot, being basically my body's temperature anyway, but my hand definitely was sweatier and grabbing the iron out of the holder it felt a little strange to be so warm. The shake senor is pretty sensitive so there hasn't been an issue with it entering standby while I'm holding it, even with a 1 minute standby delay. There was a KSGER sticker on it that came off pretty quickly to reveal "100MHz Soldering" etched under the sticker. I see on alliexpress that they don't even show this silver handle variety any more so :mep:. The one problem I had was it is so thin it just falls through my stand (and ended up melting my vacuum hose I use for hand SMD pick and place). I 3D printed a small collar that locks into the notches on the handle. It is PLA but hasn't deformed due to the heat at all yet.


One strange thing is that it takes about 6-7 seconds after you flip the power switch for it to turn on. I didn't grab the multimeter to see if this is all delay in the power supply startup, although I wish I had before I put it back together again last time. Once it is on, it heats to 300C in about 5 seconds, pulling over 70W at the wall to do so. Also bad, the tip temperature drops pretty hard when working on high thermal mass components and the output stays around 25% when doing so, so there's definitely room for improvement. Also, when hot swapping tips, the PID control is all over the place for the first 20 seconds and will continue to go bonkers until it really settles on the temperature so it is best to wait for it to stabilize before setting off.

Finally, as bd139 just pointed out, soldering the mains connector directly to the PCB definitely stresses the board from the power cord stress of plugging, unplugging, or dragging around the workbench.

[sn4k3]

Good review, i also buy that handle to upgrade my homemade OLED station.
About heat dissipation thats about station, firmware need to be tuned and set a aggressive profile for that situations.
Can you share the colar stl?

[KL27x]

I purchased the "KSGER STM32 2.1S" variety of this with the "alloy handle" myself because I guess I have some sort of passion for collecting soldering irons. This is the 7th soldering iron I've owned in my lifetime

That's nothin. I have 7 working stations... right now. Not including portable irons.

Thes is interesting, because it is four letters. Days of the week only need 3.
 Wedn and Satu are my favs.

I guess we have to cut slack to engineers working outside of their native language. I'm sure in some other language/market, that worked a lot better. And an h is kinda like a u, upside down. I can picture a chinese engineer finding the upside down u on an ASIC chart.

Warm up time of about 10 seconds is typical for Hakko T12 irons, so I think the display just takes time to do its thing. i haven't had any real trouble with my t12 clones with tip temp or thermal output. Where they are great (using 9051 style handpiece) is handpiece temp. They can do insane output without getting warm, at all. And the 9051 style handpiece has a much shorter tip to grip than that one you have... the ridge goes all the way in the handpiece.  The cheap one I use only has 3 wires, though. They don't work with all clones stations. Not sure if there's a 5 wire version for the fancy ones.

[bd139]

To note on the control loop going mental to start with. That happens on mine too. Settles down nicely after a few seconds.

[stj]

it would make sense that the controller goes full dc for a few seconds for fast heatup - while doing that it would be unable to read the sensor.

[CapnBry]

About heat dissipation thats about station, firmware need to be tuned and set a aggressive profile for that situations.
Can you share the colar stl?

You're right, I haven't done any of my tip calibrations yet or tried out the BOOST mode so that will probably make a big difference. I never had that option my previous irons beyond a the 1-point "set" potentiometer. My other irons don't have cold junction compensation in the handle either so I think in the long run this is going to be much more accurate.

The collar I posted on Thingiverse KSGER Soldering Iron Alloy Handle Collar.

Where they are great (using 9051 style handpiece) is handpiece temp. They can do insane output without getting warm, at all. And the 9051 style handpiece has a much shorter tip to grip than that one you have... the ridge goes all the way in the handpiece.  The cheap one I use only has 3 wires, though. They don't work with all clones stations. Not sure if there's a 5 wire version for the fancy ones.

Yeah I was torn between the 9501 and this alloy one, but the alloy handle was only like a $8 upgrade and is $29 if you try to get one just by itself so I went with that. There are a ton of 9501 handles for $15 so might as well try the alloy and spend to change $15 if I don't like it. I was unaware that some didn't have the 5 wires though, that's good to be aware of, thanks!

This unit also has a solder pump switch output on it, and a couple settings in the menu for it. Has anyone used that? I think I counted 23 vacant through holes on the controller PCB for pinheader or whatnot so it seems like it was designed to be extended or modified. Someone make a BLE solder iron detector for wireless setback activation!

[stj]

you have my attention, can you link to the controller and be more specific about the menu's?
i'm looking for a good pump controller - was thinking of making one but this sounds interesting.

[CapnBry]

Sure, this is the KSGER T12 Station that I purchased, Set 2 with the alloy handle. The photo now there shows a black completely different handle for Set 2 though. You'll see in one of the photos the controller PCB has what looks like a JST-PH 2.0mm connector on it labeled "PUMP".

The two pump menu items are:

• Desolder mode: Inching or Valve
• Pump Setup On Time: 10s - 60s

[ebclr]

Take a look also on this one without power supply

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/Esta-o-De-Ferro-De-Solda-T12-OLED-STM32-KSGER-V3-0-DIY-Kits-de-Ferramentas/32850601075.html

[stj]

the "setup time" makes no sense, i suspect it's for a hot air station.

[CapnBry]

the "setup time" makes no sense, i suspect it's for a hot air station.

The words are spread across two lines so I think the first part is the menu title "Pump Setup" and then option is "On Time". I definitely do not understand how it works though, what activates the pump? When it detects the shake sensor or is it smart like it notices the power usage shoot up when you're on a joint?

[sn4k3]

@CapnBry
my metal handle arrives today.
Where you insert the tip there are one plastic spacer + one rubber ring + one plastic spacer. When i remove the tip sometimes the rubber ring and the top plastic spacer come out attached to tip. This happen to you?

Note: Now they sell a new version, it come with a rubber grip in green, similar to JBC. But my verison is same as yours

EDIT: The 3d colar works for me after drill with 12mm bit  Printed mine in PETG RED

[CapnBry]

Nope, I've never had anything but the tip/cartridge come out when I remove it. I've never seen the rubber ring and spacer you're talking about (and now I feel lucky!).

Good news about the collar too! The inside of it had small ridges (0.2mm) on it to lock it into the grooves on the iron so drilling it out probably removed those too. If it ends up falling off you might try to rebuild the STL with i_dia increased a tiny bit from 12.0 to 12.1 or 12.2mm. I just mucked with the value until I got a good fit from my printer. Of course, I bet a drop of CA glue or something would have worked just as well.

I got an (unsolicited) email from the KSGER seller informing me they have many different metal handles now and that the one we got is EOL. They have the one with the green foam, one that's all black, and a stainless shiny one, all with different shapes. Hopefully I am not on their mailing list now for every minor thing they do because there's no way to unsubscribe. 

[sn4k3]

Nope, I've never had anything but the tip/cartridge come out when I remove it. I've never seen the rubber ring and spacer you're talking about (and now I feel lucky!).

Good news about the collar too! The inside of it had small ridges (0.2mm) on it to lock it into the grooves on the iron so drilling it out probably removed those too. If it ends up falling off you might try to rebuild the STL with i_dia increased a tiny bit from 12.0 to 12.1 or 12.2mm. I just mucked with the value until I got a good fit from my printer. Of course, I bet a drop of CA glue or something would have worked just as well.

I got an (unsolicited) email from the KSGER seller informing me they have many different metal handles now and that the one we got is EOL. They have the one with the green foam, one that's all black, and a stainless shiny one, all with different shapes. Hopefully I am not on their mailing list now for every minor thing they do because there's no way to unsubscribe. 

After contacting the seller he told me that pieces are glued and maybe i need to glue them. When you insert or remove the tip you dont fell a bit of rubber friction?
Yes with drill the ridges are lost but even drilled it stay on place without even move.
The new handle with the green foarm is the same as our but with that foarm that can be removed, seller told me he can send me one for free on a next order. And he send me the links of the handpieces, they suck/ugly xD

[GregDunn]

I've read all the T12-type soldering station threads thoroughly, and there seems to be only a vague consensus about which actual brand/model is a worthwhile purchase.

What I'm looking for mainly is a secondary station to make use of my T12/T15 tips: one I can stick in a box, take to a friend's house and make repairs without worrying about packing up my Hakko FX-951 and accessories.  If it gets dropped or stolen, no big loss.  I'd like a built-in power supply w/IEC socket and fuse, and the ability to plug a FM-2028 compatible handle in.  If I have to fix the internal grounding and stick X- and Y-caps in it, that's fine.  It just needs to be cheap and not complete junk.  Bonus if it has the microcontroller / OLED display as well.  It won't be taking the place of my FX-951 so accuracy is not even a big concern.

It seems like there are several KSGER and Quicko kits which fit my needs, but it's unclear which ones of them (for example) have all the necessary connections to the handle in order for the T-12 tips to operate correctly.  Re-reading the threads didn't provide a clear recommendation in this regard.

Is this one, for example, any good?

https://www.amazon.com/KSGER-Soldering-Electric-Temperature-Controller/dp/B07DKZ6PDT/

Or this one, which looks like a metal case?

https://www.amazon.com/KSGER-Soldering-Electric-Temperature-Controller/dp/B07DSCH4CJ/

[exe]

which ones of them (for example) have all the necessary connections to the handle in order for the T-12 tips to operate correctly.

I don't understand what you mean. I just bought a station, handpiece and tips from ksger and it "just works". Never heard of incorrect operation (except when using a tip for the very first time temperature jumps like crazy for 2-5mins, but it settles). I don't know if ksger stations work with original tips, handpieces etc.

[KL27x]

and the ability to plug a FM-2028 compatible handle in.

I don't know of any clones which are compatible with a genuine 2028 handpiece.

There are like 8 pins on the real 2028 handpiece. All the clones I have seen only have either a 3 or 5 pin plug. If you want something compatible with your real 2028, you will have to do some modification. Probably better off modding a 3 pin station. The 5 pin might have a different component in the handle from the 2028. (I am guessing that it's for a thermistor for cold junction compensation? Or maybe for a sensor for sleep?  ).   

You might as well just buy a fake 2028 handpiece for your clone station and keep it in your to-go kit. But you can buy 8 pin DIN connectors that are the same style as used on the 951, if you are determined. I haven't found them in any component supply store. They are not a common connector. But they sell them out of China on Ebay. Probably Ali/Banggood, too.

It should take only 5 pins for the thing to work completely properly..... power, ground, earth, and 2 (or 1 and ground) for the cold junction sensor. But I don't know which clones/handpieces actually utilize one. Someone else may know. I haven't done any testing for drift, but in 2 months of using a 3 pin T12 clone for some pretty heavy lead soldering, I didn't notice any issue with lack of this sensor. The cartridges seem to be so long and thermally insulated and efficient enough that this isn't a big deal at moderate temps and output.

In case it's not clear, the cold junction sensor is supposed to measure the temp at the back of the cartridge. This is where the thermocouple ends, and it is the "cold junction." If the iron gets hot enough, the temp at the end of the cartridge can rise. And then the thermocouple will send back a falsely low reading. Theoretically, the station will pump more power, the cold junction gets hotter, and this could result in a positive feedback that could make the iron go sorta nuclear. The sensor compensates for this. IIRC, i have seen people design clone station with the cold junction sensor on the station side. This is not going to do any good; it will just make the iron temp fluctuate based on how hot the station gets.

Come to think of it, every T18 clone I have ever seen comes with a reverse plug from the genuine Hakko. Maybe Hakko looks the other way as long as the plug is different?

[GregDunn]

and the ability to plug a FM-2028 compatible handle in.

It should take only 5 pins for the thing to work completely properly..... power, ground, earth, and 2 (or 1 and ground) for the cold junction sensor. But I don't know which clones/handpieces actually utilize one. Someone else may know. I haven't done any testing for drift, but in 2 months of using a 3 pin T12 clone for some pretty heavy lead soldering, I didn't notice any issue with lack of this sensor. The cartridges seem to be so long and thermally insulated and efficient enough that this isn't a big deal at moderate temps and output.

[/quote]

This appears to be the concern.  By "compatible" I mean that a Hakko tip plugs into the clone handpiece and works correctly, just like it would on a Hakko station; station pin compatibility is not essential.  Obviously if it supplies power only, it would behave more or less normally except that you won't be able to measure the actual tip temperature.  Assuming the station is a closed feedback loop, it has to have a tip temperature in order to know when it's reached the setting and provide some level of accuracy - not to mention the temperature display.  Incidentally, the tips only have 3 contacts, so as I understand it, the temperature measurement has to be made in between applications of power to the heater.  Any other pins brought back to the station have to be for added functions, such as a sleep switch or the cold junction.

But the cold junction is only supposed to provide a temperature reference; that is, it doesn't matter where the cold junction is, as long it's constructed properly and you know its temperature.  Thermocouples act as a differential measurement device, so as long as the reference temp is known (or compensated for), you can calculate the tip temp. 

I worked for a while designing and installing process control systems; when we used industrial thermocouples to measure heat treating furnaces or other devices, the cold junction was frequently mounted at the recording device where the operator resided, far away from the hot junction; it was calibrated against a reference standard (the company made one just for this sort of use) and the offset dialed in before it was used to measure the system.  All that mattered was that the offset was set up right initially, not the cold junction actual temperature.  The measurement potentiometer was designed so that any subsequent temperature drift at the cold junction was nulled out.  I would argue that putting the reference junction in the handle or in the station doesn't matter IF it's correctly compensated. And that's what we don't seem to know - does Hakko have a special thermistor with a known temperature coefficient at the junction in the handle?  And do the clones also use this?  They might just use a known resistor composition and set a "typical" value in the controller.  It would probably be OK for a known style of tip.

It would be useful info to know which of the clones have 3, 4, 5 wires connected at the handle end.  Lacking that, practical experience with drift/accuracy is worth hearing, because that's really the concern.

[stj]

3pin like the Bakon have a ceramic cap across the element,
5pin like quiko / ksger have a tilt-switch.

the way i would do it is make an adapter with a 3/5pin plug and an inline hakko-compatable socket with a short bit of flex between them.
that way you wont trash any warranty's or render the base no-longer compatable with the original handpiece.

[exe]

Assuming the station is a closed feedback loop, it has to have a tip temperature in order to know when it's reached the setting and provide some level of accuracy - not to mention the temperature display.

It does have a closed-loop control, it displays temperature and output power and has different profiles for different tips (but you have to dial-in the tip type, it doesn't have automatic tip type recognition, nor I think tips support it).

Honestly, I feel like we discuss how to buy a Ferrari for the price of a bicycle. If hakko-like performance is needed then buy... hakko or jbc . But these stations are about the best China can supply. I don't really see alternatives (other than trying to find something secondhand). So, to buy or not to buy is sort of silly to me because I don't see many alternatives (but there are some, like bakon, metcal clones, ts100, etc).

[GregDunn]

Assuming the station is a closed feedback loop, it has to have a tip temperature in order to know when it's reached the setting and provide some level of accuracy - not to mention the temperature display.

It does have a closed-loop control, it displays temperature and output power and has different profiles for different tips (but you have to dial-in the tip type, it doesn't have automatic tip type recognition, nor I think tips support it).

Honestly, I feel like we discuss how to buy a Ferrari for the price of a bicycle. If hakko-like performance is needed then buy... hakko or jbc . But these stations are about the best China can supply. I don't really see alternatives (other than trying to find something secondhand). So, to buy or not to buy is sort of silly to me because I don't see many alternatives (but there are some, like bakon, metcal clones, ts100, etc).

Yes, obviously it's closed-loop; I was just being specific to the method of control being discussed.

Not looking for a Ferrari at a bicycle price - just a T12 iron which has predictable behavior and won't break the bank if it gets broken or lost.  It looks like all but the cheapest clones meet this expectation, and more.  I won't be using it much on the bench; that's where my Hakko or Ungar units get used.    It seems to be safe to take a chance on one of the KSGER units.

[KL27x]

They are all compatible with T12 tips. They are all temp-controlled/thermostatic. They all pulse the power and do thermocouple readings between pulses. Most of them use a microcontroller to do this. The dirt cheap ones use a dual opamp to make a comparator and one-shot circuit that reads the thermocouple and (re)fires when it's below the setpoint.

If you goggle, you can probably find a pinout of the real 2028 somewhere. Google is failing me right now, but I have seen it. IIRC, 2 pins are used for a cold junction thermistor (which doesn't seem to be necessary; by all accounts, clone stations have no problem holding repeatable temp; it might serve as safety feature more than for accuracy in the real 951?), and i think 2 were used for a bicolor LED (which was used in the original 2027; omitted in the 2028). But my memory isn't very reliable.

If you want to see for yourself, you have a 2028. The little yellow ring is a separate piece. It unscrews from the blue parts on either side.   

There are no clones that use a dumb variable power. Even the stations that cost less than 1 genuine tip are using at least the "616" op amp circuit to hold to an adjustable set temp. And they work, well. It only takes a dollar in parts.

I am pretty sure the 951 uses a 24V trafo and TRIAC. You could theorize that the DC/FET clones can cause more electrolytic migration of the heater over time. But the life of the plating is more than likely the limiting factor in tip life for 99.9% of soldering scenarios.

The clones with integral PSU, I've seen DC 19.5-24.5V. At higher than 24V, the heater life is supposed to noticeably degrade. I have found my Bakon @ 19.5V, warms up in roughly 17 seconds from cold, depending on the tip. @ 24.5V my Suhan 616 clone takes roughly 10 seconds, which is pretty similar to genuine 951 in this specific aspect. The genuine is doing it (I think) with the voltage drop of a TRIAC, so I would bet the 616 circuit is not optimal, but it works pretty good.

BTW, per what you wanted in a travel station, the Suhan 616 station has an IEC socket, is dirty cheap (I got it for $26 or $27), and it's probably the smallest thing going. I don't see any physical fuse in there, but the 24.5V PSU is obviously not cheap chinese barebones switcher; I rather think it's a PSU originally designed by Apple. It's super complex and painstakingly compacted into a rectangle. The case is form fitted to just barely fit the PSU with the socket and front panel sqeezed on the ends. Essentially a PSU dunked in black plasti-dip. (Warning: the cord it ships with has live and neutral swapped). But it is analog and the handpiece it comes with is a turd.

The Bakon is only 19.5V, but it has an AVR running things and a clunky 2 button interface and 3 digit display. The power cord is integral. The PSU is a very simple switcher. I don't know much about switcher design, but it's all air in there. It has 1/10th the components in the Suhan PSU. The handpiece it ships with is very good; it's better in some ways than the 2028 styles, IMO. It has a thinner footprint, but it's longer and taller and probably twice the volume.

I didn't do any testing of temp drift over time/temp. I did warm up speed testing, as already stated. And I did one test for thermal droop/gradient (how much higher the set temp must be to get 200C at the tip surface on a specific heatsink). In a sample of one tip (3mm bevel) tested at one temperature, both clones worked roughly as well as my 888. I haven't really used the Suhan much in real world soldering, though. The Bakon is heavily tested and approved.

The reason I gravitated to the Bakon is the thinner and longer form factor makes it the perfect footprint to integrate a DIY soldering iron holder right on top of it. And I rather like the thinner, more flexible, integrated power cord compared to a thick IEC cord on a tiny device. I modified the Bakon so the cord exits through the "front end" next to the iron connector, it being an auxiliary/second iron for me rather than a permanent bench fixture.

[GregDunn]

They are all compatible with T12 tips. They are all temp-controlled/thermostatic. They all pulse the power and do thermocouple readings between pulses. Most of them use a microcontroller to do this. The dirt cheap ones use a dual opamp to make a comparator and one-shot circuit that reads the thermocouple and (re)fires when it's below the setpoint.

If you goggle, you can probably find a pinout of the real 2028 somewhere. Google is failing me right now, but I have seen it. IIRC, 2 pins are used for a cold junction thermistor (which doesn't seem to be necessary; by all accounts, clone stations have no problem holding repeatable temp; it might serve as safety feature more than for accuracy in the real 951?), and i think 2 were used for a bicolor LED (which was used in the original 2027; omitted in the 2028). But my memory isn't very reliable.

So far, my Google-fu has failed on finding a 2028 pinout, but I'll keep looking.

If you want to see for yourself, you have a 2028. The little yellow ring is a separate piece. It unscrews from the blue parts on either side.   

There are no clones that use a dumb variable power. Even the stations that cost less than 1 genuine tip are using at least the "616" op amp circuit to hold to an adjustable set temp. And they work, well. It only takes a dollar in parts.

Sometimes, though, the builder cheaps out on that extra dollar - like dropping X/Y caps, hard mounting the IEC connector (or not using one), poor plastic in the handpiece that breaks easily.  That's one reason I wanted to see if anyone had a definite yes or no on any of the cheap clones.  Just so I was aware of what I was buying; again, I don't expect perfection, I just want to be prepared to make any necessary changes in the equipment.  It does sound like the ones I was considering are all fine in the important design aspects.  I'll probably take my 2028 apart when the new unit arrives, for comparison - and hopefully to share with the community.

I am pretty sure the 951 uses a 24V trafo and TRIAC. You could theorize that the DC/FET clones can cause more electrolytic migration of the heater over time. But the life of the plating is more than likely the limiting factor in tip life for 99.9% of soldering scenarios.

The clones with integral PSU, I've seen DC 19.5-24.5V. At higher than 24V, the heater life is supposed to noticeably degrade. I have found my Bakon @ 19.5V, warms up in roughly 17 seconds from cold, depending on the tip. @ 24.5V my Suhan 616 clone takes roughly 10 seconds, which is pretty similar to genuine 951 in this specific aspect. The genuine is doing it (I think) with the voltage drop of a TRIAC, so I would bet the 616 circuit is not optimal, but it works pretty good.

BTW, per what you wanted in a travel station, the Suhan 616 station has an IEC socket, is dirty cheap (I got it for $26 or $27), and it's probably the smallest thing going. I don't see any physical fuse in there, but the 24.5V PSU is obviously not cheap chinese barebones switcher; I rather think it's a PSU originally designed by Apple. It's super complex and painstakingly compacted into a rectangle. The case is form fitted to just barely fit the PSU with the socket and front panel sqeezed on the ends. Essentially a PSU dunked in black plasti-dip. (Warning: the cord it ships with has live and neutral swapped). But it is analog and the handpiece it comes with is a turd.

Not coming up with any hits on that either; it keeps redirecting me to KSGER and Quicko units..

The Bakon is only 19.5V, but it has an AVR running things and a clunky 2 button interface and 3 digit display. The power cord is integral. The PSU is a very simple switcher. I don't know much about switcher design, but it's all air in there. It has 1/10th the components in the Suhan PSU. The handpiece it ships with is very good; it's better in some ways than the 2028 styles, IMO. It has a thinner footprint, but it's longer and taller and probably twice the volume.

I didn't do any testing of temp drift over time/temp. I did warm up speed testing, as already stated. And I did one test for thermal droop/gradient (how much higher the set temp must be to get 200C at the tip surface on a specific heatsink). In a sample of one tip (3mm bevel) tested at one temperature, both clones worked roughly as well as my 888. I haven't really used the Suhan much in real world soldering, though. The Bakon is heavily tested and approved.

The reason I gravitated to the Bakon is the thinner and longer form factor makes it the perfect footprint to integrate a DIY soldering iron holder right on top of it. And I rather like the thinner, more flexible, integrated power cord compared to a thick IEC cord on a tiny device. I modified the Bakon so the cord exits through the "front end" next to the iron connector, it being an auxiliary/second iron for me rather than a permanent bench fixture.

This is all good info, and appreciated.  If I feel the need to make any ergonomic changes, I'll definitely refer back to this.

[KL27x]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/110-220V-Soldering-Iron-Station-Temperature-Control-Handle-T12-Tip-for-Hakko-/222098597348?hash=item33b61ba5e4

Had to look back through my history. I actually paid under 25.00 delivered, lol, in 2017. I have no idea what search term to find it, but hitting similar items in my history made it pop up. This is a different seller, and it is still under 25.00. I also found one on auction that starts at 13.50 with free shipping.

If you look at the pic, you will see "Suhan" on the front plate on the left. It is the same thing I have, down to the 936 franken-handle and the assuredly backwards wired IEC cord. I think mine has "616" printed on it, somewhere. But I can't remember where I put it.

"616" appears to be a model number for the circuitry/board to some extent. You can buy a tiny pcb that is labelled "616" for like $3.00 to make a T12 station with your own power supply. The circuit in these little Suhan station is a larger pcb with some extra parts in it and works at the 24.5V of the really neat PSU. The little 616 boards only work to 20V.  The important bits on either boards are a dual 358 and a FET.

It has a single R/G LED that turns red when the heater is on and green when it switches off and a nice smooth pot. As stated, the PSU looks impressive (from someone who doesn't know what they're looking at and didn't do any testing!). You could barely fit an extra quarter in the case. The KSGR PSU looks similar to what's going on inside the Bakon. I can't find it, but it's probably a lot smaller than the KSGR... in probably every dimension. There was no way I could remove the IEC connector and even run a permanent power cord through the front panel.

*Edit: It was on my bench the whole time, lol.
2.97" wide
4.09" long (4.53" with the knob)
1.48" tall, not including the rubber feet.
And it says "616-A1" on it.

I wonder if this digital station by Suhan uses the same PSU and case.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Quick-Heating-T12-STC-Digital-Soldering-station-Electronic-welding-Iron/142430838684?hash=item21298a1f9c%3Ag%3AW18AAOSwjvJZVftD&_sacat=0&_nkw=t12+station&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xt12+station.TRS0.TSS0

Heh, yeah. in one picture it says "Apple 24.5V 2.65A." I probably saw this, before, planting the "apple" idea. It sure looks the part. I may never use this as a soldering station, but it may come in handy one day for the nicely enclosed PSU.

[GregDunn]

OK!  First, thanks to all for their input.  I found a KSGER iron which looked to have all the necessary features and ordered it.  It arrived and I proceeded to run it through its paces.  It's a STM32-based unit with internal switcher, IEC power connector, etc.

I checked the continuity from earth ground to tip - grounded.  Also measured tip and case/connector voltages when powered up - only a few tenths of a VAC to any of the grounds on my bench.  That's probably inductive pickup, actually; I have a lot of AC stuff on the bench.

It's a little disconcerting to have a piece of equipment like this exhibit a power-up delay where nothing appears to happen for several seconds.     I was able to adjust the cold junction temp and watched the tip temp gradually settle in as the element warmed up.  The manual says there will be a period of inconsistency for the first few minutes of powering up a new tip, and so there is.  After about 5 minutes it was rock solid.  The UI is a little fiddly but I was able to set everything up just fine eventually.

Except.  There's nothing in the manual or online (that I've been able to find) explaining how to set C or F on the display.  What's the trick?

[exe]

There's nothing in the manual or online (that I've been able to find) explaining how to set C or F on the display.  What's the trick?

(insert here a typical joke about US and SI)

Did you check setup menu? If it's not here, then, probably, it doesn't support this (I don't have my unit at hand to check).

[GregDunn]

   As an engineering student, I got used to thinking in C and K all the time so the units don't bother me, per se.  What bugs me is that I can't get all of my temperature measuring devices to use the same units.  It's annoying to have a calibrator and one iron permanently set to C, another iron and thermocouple which only read F, and only one iron and an IR thermometer which can be switched.  I waste too much time converting units, and it shouldn't be necessary.

Edit: the setup menu only seems to allow switching between English and Chinese for the menu text - which is amusing because the manual is bilingual in English and Russian...

[nanofrog]

  As an engineering student, I got used to thinking in C and K all the time so the units don't bother me, per se.  What bugs me is that I can't get all of my temperature measuring devices to use the same units.  It's annoying to have a calibrator and one iron permanently set to C, another iron and thermocouple which only read F, and only one iron and an IR thermometer which can be switched.  I waste too much time converting units, and it shouldn't be necessary.

Edit: the setup menu only seems to allow switching between English and Chinese for the menu text - which is amusing because the manual is bilingual in English and Russian...

I seem to recall that what you want to do, and more, is possible from at least a couple of YT vids. So I'd suggest checking around and see if there's better firmware available. 

Good luck. 

[GregDunn]

I'm sure better firmware would be handy as well!  The problem is that I don't know how to verify that it would run on my version of the board (HW2.0, FW2.1) - I'll see if I can scrounge up some details on that.

Oddly, I had trouble getting the case open on my unit - the back comes off, as well as the nut holding the rotary encoder, but the case seems to be either glued to the front panel or there's a hidden fastener.  I've found all the externally accessible screws (even looked under the rubber feet).

Edit: unplugging the unit seems to make it forget all the settings too.  That doesn't seem right.

[stj]

that's interesting, some of the kits/pcb modules on ali clearly show a coincell in heatshrink on flyleads.

[exe]

that's interesting, some of the kits/pcb modules on ali clearly show a coincell in heatshrink on flyleads.

That's for RTC (real time clock). Unfortunately, no alarm function and it needs to be powered to display time (I'm kidding).

[GregDunn]

that's interesting, some of the kits/pcb modules on ali clearly show a coincell in heatshrink on flyleads.

That's for RTC (real time clock). Unfortunately, no alarm function and it needs to be powered to display time (I'm kidding).

I also find it somewhat amusing that they went to the effort to allow set and display time/date through the UI but not C/F.     Still haven't found an option for that.  Not a real issue, just something to remember if I have to switch irons for whatever reason.

I left the unit unplugged overnight and when turning it back on today it did remember the tip type and cold junction settings.  Wonder if there's something not making good contact inside...

[exe]

that's interesting, some of the kits/pcb modules on ali clearly show a coincell in heatshrink on flyleads.

they went to the effort to allow set and display time/date through the UI but not C/F.

They are in China . Honestly, adding C/F option wouldn't come to my mind as well unless asked...

BTW, if I'm not mistaken, firmware for 2.1S was written by a Russian guy. I think you can find him in the Internet and ask to add this feature. Oh, quick googling showed this thread about another alternative firmware: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/stm32-oled-digital-soldering-station-for-t12-handle/ . Please let us know if an alternative firmware any better than the stock one. But, honestly, I like the station the way it is. It's a bit hard to remember how to control all the features from the single encode (long press, short press, press and rotate...), but I think it's a good hobby-grade station (may even on par with some more branded devices).

I left the unit unplugged overnight and when turning it back on today it did remember the tip type and cold junction settings.  Wonder if there's something not making good contact inside...

Mine just works . But I don't know if it stores settings immediately, or with timeout (to reduce write wear). When I change settings and want to switch off the station I wait a few seconds (so not to interrupt power while it's writing to flash). May be I'm too paranoid.

[GregDunn]

BTW, if I'm not mistaken, firmware for 2.1S was written by a Russian guy. I think you can find him in the Internet and ask to add this feature. Oh, quick googling showed this thread about another alternative firmware: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/stm32-oled-digital-soldering-station-for-t12-handle/ . Please let us know if an alternative firmware any better than the stock one. But, honestly, I like the station the way it is. It's a bit hard to remember how to control all the features from the single encode (long press, short press, press and rotate...), but I think it's a good hobby-grade station (may even on par with some more branded devices).

I left the unit unplugged overnight and when turning it back on today it did remember the tip type and cold junction settings.  Wonder if there's something not making good contact inside...

Mine just works . But I don't know if it stores settings immediately, or with timeout (to reduce write wear). When I change settings and want to switch off the station I wait a few seconds (so not to interrupt power while it's writing to flash). May be I'm too paranoid.

I really don't have a problem with the single encoder control (telling it to change tips with the press-rotate is a bit weird, but OK).  I've read that alternative firmware thread and don't even want to think about it till I'm sure my STM32 revision is compatible, because bricking the unit seems inevitable.  Since this is not my primary iron, I'll probably just let it slide for now.  Especially since I still can't figure out how to get the case apart despite much peeking and poking.  The fact that it's so different from other cheap T12 controllers in the minor details doesn't fill me with confidence that it will work unmodified with the CFW.

I'll keep an eye on the presets.  It may well be that I did something hurriedly and trashed the NVRAM entries during one of my tests.

Oh, one very nice thing I noticed while trying to get the case apart.  The screws holding the rear panel on are driven into brass inserts rather than into the bare plastic; one of several things which pointed to some care in mechanical design.

[GregDunn]

Aaaaand... dumb.  There is a fascia over the front panel hiding the extra screws.  I should have known there would be one, but it was so carefully applied that I didn't see it even while looking for it.   

So here's the controller board.  Note STM32F102C8T6, whereas the CFW is for a F103 chip and the author says the code would have to be rewritten to support that chip.  Apologies, but I really have a lot on my plate at the moment, so I'm not going to get into writing new firmware yet.     There doesn't appear to be any obvious jumper to change the C/F display so I'll just deal with it on the occasions where I need to use the iron.

[stj]

aha! i see the 2pin battery connector.

[GregDunn]

aha! i see the 2pin battery connector.

Lots of things to play with here, if I get bored some day.   

[CapnBry]

Huh that's strange, it is definitely a different circuit board than I have in mine. I know because I actually took it apart yesterday to see if it is the power supply causing the boot delay or the firmware. The power supply comes on in roughly 2 seconds from flipping the switch, and the bulk of the time (about 4 seconds) is spent waiting for the software to start. I'm wondering if there's some sort of bootloader on the chip that waits for 3 seconds or something for an update before launching into the firmware. It seems a bit daft to have a iron that waits longer before booting than it does to actually heat up.

I've gone through and calibrated my most used tips and the temperature regulation is really not great in the stock firmware. I'm set to 320 with a type K tip (the giant flat one) and I'm seeing about 315 on idle, all well and good. Then I touch it to a piece of 1oz copper clad stock I have here and the temp drops to 200C or lower, all the while the display still bouncing around 320 and the power going up, but not by much.

I've probably got 50 hours on it so far and it works pretty well apart from that. The encoder UI is fine, it is easy enough to switch tips or temps. The standby is nice and the shake sensor is super sensitive so I've never had to give it an explicit shake to wake it. I did back the timer off to 2 minutes though, at one minute it was always just entering standby as I reached for it each time or I'd be rushing to get my next set of joints ready in time to beat the one minute timer and it was causing me an irrational amount of stress.

[Specmaster]

I've read all the T12-type soldering station threads thoroughly, and there seems to be only a vague consensus about which actual brand/model is a worthwhile purchase.

What I'm looking for mainly is a secondary station to make use of my T12/T15 tips: one I can stick in a box, take to a friend's house and make repairs without worrying about packing up my Hakko FX-951 and accessories.  If it gets dropped or stolen, no big loss.  I'd like a built-in power supply w/IEC socket and fuse, and the ability to plug a FM-2028 compatible handle in.  If I have to fix the internal grounding and stick X- and Y-caps in it, that's fine.  It just needs to be cheap and not complete junk.  Bonus if it has the microcontroller / OLED display as well.  It won't be taking the place of my FX-951 so accuracy is not even a big concern.

It seems like there are several KSGER and Quicko kits which fit my needs, but it's unclear which ones of them (for example) have all the necessary connections to the handle in order for the T-12 tips to operate correctly.  Re-reading the threads didn't provide a clear recommendation in this regard.

Is this one, for example, any good?

https://www.amazon.com/KSGER-Soldering-Electric-Temperature-Controller/dp/B07DKZ6PDT/

Or this one, which looks like a metal case?

https://www.amazon.com/KSGER-Soldering-Electric-Temperature-Controller/dp/B07DSCH4CJ/

I think that you should consider this option, I have 2 of these, very good indeed, but I did carry out additional earthing of the enclosure. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-STC-T12-Digital-Soldering-Iron-Station-Temperature-Controller-EU-Plug-Temperature-180-450-Degrees-T12/32803295956.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.79cc8d61xzhCln&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10151_10065_10344_10130_10068_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_10340_10548_10341_5012011_10696_10192_10190_10084_10083_10618_10307_10820_10301_10821_10303_10059_100031_5011911_10103_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620,searchweb201603_16,ppcSwitch_2&algo_expid=308363ac-d1af-475d-901b-68386d2f0fb9-0&algo_pvid=308363ac-d1af-475d-901b-68386d2f0fb9&transAbTest=ae803_1&priceBeautifyAB=0 

[GregDunn]

After a lot of head scratching and pondering, I ended up getting this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DKZ6PDT/

At least here in our area, we've had really good luck ordering through Amazon so it was less of a risk.  It seems to be very well constructed, properly grounded and fused, and the internal power supply - happily - uses high quality components.  I haven't done complete measurements on it yet but am interested to see if the temperature tracks any better than the Hakko which is my primary station.

[stj]

lol
the case is upside-down!!
 

[GregDunn]

lol
the case is upside-down!!
 

I thought that too, when I opened the box - but what they've done is put rubber feet on the bottom of the case and little "cups" on the top.  If you stack two or more of them, the feet rest in the little cups and keep the controller from sliding around.  You might just think that they're using the same mold for top and bottom halves of the box and not putting feet in the top part, but no - the top and bottom molds are in fact different on the inside so it was intentional.  That's part of what I meant about attention to detail, along with the brass inserts for the screws and heat shrinking on all the internal wiring.

Also, I tested the accuracy of the K tip with my FG-100 and it's within 10C of the set temp at 350C.  Pretty good for a cheap controller and a clone Hakko-style tip!  Better than my FX-951 in fact.   

[Specmaster]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, these cups must be because they finally realized that people often stack 2 or more these together and with the fascia being oversized they couldn't be stacked correctly.

[stj]

10' is very good, the guy who made the universal controller project tested dozens of tips inc originals and found they differ by upto 30'

as for it being better than the FX951, that does not surprise me.
the Hakko is pretty old and microcontrollers and coding techniques for stuff like avoiding overshoot have come a long way with so many people now working on there own controllers.

[zanga]

Can someone please put a picture with the connections on the fx9501 handle?

I found this pic for + - and earth


But not sure how should I connect the thermistor and the ball switch.

The handle will be connected to a KSGER 3.0 5 pin controller kit.

[thm_w]

Can someone please put a picture with the connections on the fx9501 handle?

I found this pic for + - and earth

But not sure how should I connect the thermistor and the ball switch.

The handle will be connected to a KSGER 3.0 5 pin controller kit.

It may be better to trace out the connections yourself to confirm what goes where.

[Specmaster]

I checked my connections but they would be worthless to you as my T12 are made by Quicko and are 4 pin variations but still use the FX9501 handles.

[stj]

i wonder why it has an NTC in the handle, it's too slow and inacurate for any kind of offsetting.
maybe it's a safety to detect the handle heating up.

[ggchab]

I have the same handle. I used the ball switch only that I simply connected to the white and blue wires.

[thm_w]

i wonder why it has an NTC in the handle, it's too slow and inacurate for any kind of offsetting.
maybe it's a safety to detect the handle heating up.

Its for CJC: https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/4026

How is it too slow or inaccurate? Typical glass thermistor is sub 1 degree. We are talking about a soldering iron where if you are off by 5 degrees that would be OK.
https://www.ametherm.com/thermistor/select-an-ntc-thermistor

But the fact that many have the NTC in the base shows there probably isn't a huge difference between handle and base temperature under normal use.

[KL27x]

i wonder why it has an NTC in the handle, it's too slow and inacurate for any kind of offsetting.
maybe it's a safety to detect the handle heating up.

It is exactly there to detect the temp of the back end of the handpiece, because this is directly related to the temperature at the back end of the cartridge. This is where the cold junction is. The "power leads" to the heater, inside that long T12 cartridge between the contacts and the tip, are made of two difference metals. This is the thermocouple; the power leads are the thermocouple. And this is the reason T12 tips are as long as they are... to better thermally isolate the cold junction from the tip.

If heat from the tip raises the temp of the back end of the cartridge, the voltage this thermocouple produces will drop. And the set temp will effectively increase itself. So yes, it is compensating for temperature change at the cold junction, and it doesn't need to be super fast to do that.

A station that puts a thermistor in the base station is just attempting to compensate for the range of ambient temperature in typical soldering environments. I suppose it would be useful if you move the station around between vastly different temperature work environments. But this is not particularly necessary for most people.

A CJC thermistor in the back of the handpiece would be more important for iron with shorter cartridges and/or higher wattage output. T12 seems to work fine in most scenarios, without any CJC. It is where you are pushing a lot of watts into a heavy ground plane where you might run into some temp drift. I have so far never needed to push a T12 iron that hard to significantly heat up the back of the handpiece/cartridge. And as long as it was self-limiting, and not exponential, it wouldn't necessarily hurt. If you find yourself pumping a lot of watts, it's probably ok or even nice if the set temp actually invisibly raised itself... as long as it would come back down on its own when you put the iron back in the stand, and not go into thermal runaway.

[Specmaster]

A CJC thermistor in the back of the handpiece would be more important for iron with shorter cartridges and/or higher wattage output. T12 seems to work fine in most scenarios, without any CJC. It is where you are pushing a lot of watts into a heavy ground plane where you might run into some temp drift. I have so far never needed to push a T12 iron that hard to significantly heat up the back of the handpiece/cartridge.

I can agree with that, as mentioned earlier, I use the Quicko versions as sold by Aliexpress and this is a 4 pin / core system and uses the ball switch and no CJC thermistor in the handle and I have no problems with that system at all.

[MT]

Is there a tip usage table? Like which tip is most suitable for 0604, SO8, DIP etc.

[nanofrog]

Is there a tip usage table? Like which tip is most suitable for 0604, SO8, DIP etc.

Hakko's Tip Selection page doesn't quite cover it that way, but should still be useful as it shows what the different shapes can be used for. For sizing, you fit it to the pad/hole being soldered.

[MT]

Hakko's Tip Selection page doesn't quite cover it that way, but should still be useful as it shows what the different shapes can be used for. For sizing, you fit it to the pad/hole being soldered.

Thats a brilliant page, Thanks!

[bob808]

I gave a Quicko 4 pin version, and I got a ball switch and a mercury switch in the kit. Do I need to use the mercury switch?

[Specmaster]

No, you get both ball and mercury options so you can decide which one you want to use.

[bob808]

Are there any differences between them?

[Specmaster]

I think maybe the only real difference is that the ball might respond more to vibration as well as the angle of the handle and the mercury switch is going to be purely a gravity activated switch, so the angle of the handle may be the only means of operation.

If you really to see which does what and then make up your own mind, connect them to your multimeter on the continuity range and see which is the more sensitive etc to the way you want the system to work, and then once done, install that unit in the handle, simple.

[zanga]

Thank you for your answers !

I attached the connections I used for the handle in case anyone needs them.

Any recommendations for a stand that can hold the FX9501 handle ?

[bd139]

I tried I think three stands and none of them worked with the 9501 handle. They ranged from floppy, to broken to completely useless.

See my review of one here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/cheap-t12-clone-soldering-stations/msg1496530/#msg1496530

[zanga]

Was checking these two, but I guess you tried them already.

https://gearbest.app.link/aQAHKXYLjQ

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302000735926

Sent from my MI 6 using Tapatalk

[Specmaster]

Thank you for your answers !

Any recommendations for a stand that can hold the FX9501 handle ?

Yes, I tried this one and it works really well. You do have to squash down slightly the inner tube with a pair of long nose pliars to retain the iron and I have not had any problems in using it at all. Here is the link to the supplier https://cpc.farnell.com/maker-life/bsel0010/soldering-iron-stand/dp/SD02156?st=iron%20stands

[KL27x]

^

You do have to squash down slightly the inner tube with a pair of long nose pliars to retain the iron

What I noticed on the one I got with the Bakon, which looks the same as that but in black, the design is just slightly off. Maybe the blue one is different. I have heard they revised it, once, so YMMV.

There are two concentric ridges on the T12 tips, forward and back. Then there are many longitudinal ridges molded in the handpiece which are a press fit to the two ridges on the cartridge. The problem is the front of the longitudinal plastic ridges in the handpiece are beveled/rounded over too deep on the front end. So they hardly touch the front ridge on the cartridge. The cartridge bottoms out just a hair too early, leaving that front ridge resting in the over-sized beveled area.

So there is potentially a better fix than squishing the plastic down to egg the ID. If you unscrew the two halves of the handle about 1/16th of an inch, it makes the handpiece slightly longer. And the ridges have full contact. I milled a little plastic washer to take up that gap between the two halves. This improved the grip enough to remove the tendency of a non-symmetric tip to spin around when pressing it just so, and it removed a bit of the lateral wiggle when pressing. YMMV.

[Imgur](

)
Here's a pic. You can see the white washer/spacer between the two halves of the iron. I also shortened the back of the handpiece as much as humanly possible, and that was a much less elegant mod. There's a strip of coke bottle plastic over the butt, used as heatshrink for structural support.

[Specmaster]

^

You do have to squash down slightly the inner tube with a pair of long nose pliars to retain the iron

What I noticed on the one I got with the Bakon, which looks the same as that but in black, the design is just slightly off. Maybe the blue one is different. I have heard they revised it, once, so YMMV.

There are two concentric ridges on the T12 tips, forward and back. Then there are many longitudinal ridges molded in the handpiece which are a press fit to the two ridges on the cartridge. The problem is the front of the longitudinal plastic ridges in the handpiece are beveled/rounded over too deep on the front end. So they hardly touch the front ridge on the cartridge. The cartridge bottoms out just a hair too early, leaving that front ridge resting in the over-sized beveled area.

So there is potentially a better fix than squishing the plastic down to egg the ID. If you unscrew the two halves of the handle about 1/16th of an inch, it makes the handpiece slightly longer. And the ridges have full contact. I milled a little plastic washer to take up that gap between the two halves. This improved the grip enough to remove the tendency of a non-symmetric tip to spin around when pressing it just so, and it removed a bit of the lateral wiggle when pressing. YMMV.

[Imgur](

)
Here's a pic. You can see the white washer/spacer between the two halves of the iron. I also shortened the back of the handpiece as much as humanly possible, and that was a much less elegant mod. There's a strip of coke bottle plastic over the butt, used as heat shrink for structural support.

The inner tube of the stand is not plastic but metal and it is this you need to squash just enough that iron tip passes through easily and then the tip rests against the metal tube but the actual tip where the heater is pokes through the gap and the iron rests on the shaft of the tip about 40mm away from the actual tip, just behind the rubber handle.

[KL27x]

If these handpieces are grossly the same, that inner tube is really short and it is just a spacer. It isn't even supposed to contact the cartridge, at all. I gave this handpiece away, but I want to say it was just there to hold the electrical socket in place. it is made of plastic, in my version. And it would only touch somewhat towards the rear of the cartridge if you egged it. The front most contact point btn the handpiece and the cartridge is at that forward concentric protruding ridge on the cartridge. The contact area is molded into the front half of the handpiece, directly. That's where most of the play and looseness is in my version. But maybe these handpieces are only similar, externally. 

Anyhow, maybe take a look in the front, business end of your handpiece to see what I'm talking about. If yours is similar, you can see the internal plastic ribs only hold the cartridge loosely, in the rounded beveled area. And if the cartridge could go in a smidge deeper it would hold much better. Or maybe you could feel it, anyhow, when inserting the cartridge. And you might feel a difference if you unscrew the handpiece, partly, to where it engages fully.

[Specmaster]

No, I don't think you understand what I'm talking so heres some photos. Looking at your photo you are using those plastic interchangeable things and I'm using the bog standard 9501 handle and the ridges that you are talking are well down inside my handle so my tips are held nice and secure so there is no problem using the metal inside tube to hold the weight of the iron because the tip is further down inside the handle.

[KL27x]

Thanks for the pics. Yeah, that is totally different.

[stj]

 

[bd139]

That does the job 

Revisited my T12 this morning. Unfortunately we got hammered by a storm over the last couple of days and it ate my HF antenna. Due to the location of it, I have to do in situ repairs with a soldering iron. This is well away from any sockets. In fact the feed to the antenna is 15m long. Thus a solution was required. I figured because I'd stuffed anderson powerpoles on everything, I might as well do the T12 as well because I can then whack it into a comms battery I have or my power supply. Then I can take it outside and fix antenna.

It worked.

This is the unit I added a boost converter to so that it heats up quicker and delivers 24V to the control board.





Note that the battery has an inline fuse wired into the powerpole harness:



Much better than a butane iron (I had one blow up on me once)

[stj]

you rebel, use a cord grip instead of a knot! 

[bd139]

I didn’t have any cord grips left. I did however have plenty of knots

It’ll do. If it eats the cable the fuse will go 

[ciccio]

I'v found a suitable iron stand sold by Welleman : https://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=417238, paid about 9 Euros.
It has a slight loose fit (it fits perfectly with other Chinese irons) but is very usable.
Banggood and Aliexpress have a similar one: https://www.banggood.com/Metal-Material-Soldering-Iron-Stand-with-Sponge-For-HAKKO936-Soldering-Station-p-1084119.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN, but i've never tested it.
I've assembled many T12 kits, and discovered that quality varies a lot.
Looking at the new versions on sale I understand that they are improving a lot.
I prefer the LED versions: the OLED version have a display that is too small for my eyes.
The standard ones may be improved a lot, simply by using bigger wires from power supply to the controller board.
There are may forum's threads about it.
Best regards

[Haggis McHaggis]

The tip was floating on mine. I connected it to the negative lead on the DC in which is connected to earth on my power supply. You could do that or stick a 4mm binding post on the back and bring it out to that. Then you can use it for both ESD safe and floating work.

Hi bd139,

i bought a similar T12 Mini station (Quicko 943, DC 24V) and have a floating tip too. I opened a new thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/how-to-get-rid-of-fluctuating-voltage-on-soldering-tip-(t12-clone-station)/

I'd be glad if you could take a look at it.

Thanks

[bd139]

On it

[union7]

Your T12-942  has a much deeper box than the one I currently see on Amazon... any idea why?

(Maybe at the time they were just using the boxes for other models that needed room for a power supply?)

TIA

[Specmaster]

Your T12-942  has a much deeper box than the one I currently see on Amazon... any idea why?

(Maybe at the time they were just using the boxes for other models that needed room for a power supply?)

TIA

Wow, those are Amazon T12 soldering stations are very expensive, do yourself a favour and take on Aliexpress, there that we typically less than half the Amazon prices, ok you will have to wait a week or two before you get it, but well worth the wait, I have 2 of the T12-952 versions, nice bit of kit.