Author Topic: Deadly insane design (CIF FT 02 reflow oven) Teardown - rant - safety fix  (Read 51103 times)

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Offline uwezi

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Re: Deadly insane design (CIF FT 02 reflow oven) Teardown - rant - safety fix
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2014, 06:44:55 pm »

There is French on the PCB.

Yes, it is - and it says that you are not allowed to modify the circuit board  8)

I found this thread today, because I borrowed this exact oven from my colleagues and was desperately looking for a manual, because the machine's user interface is horrible! But finding this thread was even more fun!  :-+

I then also found the manual: http://se.rs-online.com/web/p/reflow-ovens/5068786/

The English manual repeatedly tells you that you should read something on the "defect display" - it appears that there is more defective than just the display   |O

And yes, RS still sells this piece of engineering in Europe for the sum of about USD 2600.
 

Offline electronics man

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Re: Deadly insane design (CIF FT 02 reflow oven) Teardown - rant - safety fix
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2014, 08:49:26 pm »
someone should tell RS about this thread to warn them that the product is dangerous
follow me on twitter @get_your_byte
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Deadly insane design (CIF FT 02 reflow oven) Teardown - rant - safety fix
« Reply #77 on: February 19, 2014, 05:57:57 am »
someone should tell RS about this thread to warn them that the product is dangerous

So why don't you do it? ::)
 

Offline lithsmd

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I come to this forum much as a player, we have one of these FT02 for over a year, no malfunctions to date.
We quite satisfied sum compared to our former reflow oven (Netherlands).
By reading this post, I contacted CIF last week, they replied that they were sorry for the mistake on the circuit, they offered me to replace my control card by another modified.
So I returned them the PCB and expects in return a PCB with insulation changed.
by the way, on my oven all the connections was OK  :).
I will notify you upon receipt of the new card.
 

Offline amp741

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Hello, a link http://webdelcire.com/wordpress/archives/3732 where you can see the temperature time profiles in different points of the oven's tray.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 05:05:47 am by amp741 »
 

Offline mk_

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btw: I received an more or less unused FT02, Manual is signed 15. January 2015(!) and it still includes the crazy pcb.

Asking cif@cif.fr what they offer resulted in a quick answer that I should send the pcb to them, they will replace it asap.


mk_

 

Offline wraperTopic starter

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I'm going to design a new controller PCB for this stupid reflow oven which i reviewed and modified a while ago as original  (safety fixed) controller just drives me nuts. Lacking of any ramp function is just insane, as on how long it is preheated it depends, will solder paste melt not completely or board gets fried at high temperatures for prolonged time. Two runs one after another are basically impossible too because of this.
So it will be basically this : http://andybrown.me.uk/wk/2014/05/11/awreflow/. I'm too lazy to do this from the scratch, so It will be original firmware or slightly modified to account door switch and fan but probably not as there is little need for that. As original PCB is huge and ordering PCB of such size is about $55 for 5 PCBs from Elecrow  (I don't want to drill new holes for smaller PCB mounting) and don't wan't to waste this expensive space needlessly, I'll put a triac on the heatsink and a small Meanwell 5V 1A SMPS module on this PCB too. 12V 3A original PSU is just insane, as there is no need nor for 12V, nor 3A.
So why I'm writing this? - as much as I know, Toploser sold quiet a few of those here. Will there be anyone interested in this controller? I could sell bare PCB + unobtanium LCD connector for about 12 EUR shipped anywhere (+some parts at their cost if needed). Or sell fully assembled PCBs (guess will be around 45-50 EUR without an LCD) if anyone wants to pay for my effort doing this. So if anyone interested, let me know. I'll might make a design a bit different so less modification is needed to install it. I already don't have original power connector and thing is already rewired so I don't really need to make it compatible with original connector unless someone needs it. Basically only modification needed will be cutting LCD window a bit higher and covering some part of it as this LCD is higher but shorter than original.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 01:09:25 am by wraper »
 

Offline wraperTopic starter

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If anyone interested in the new controller, please leave a coment it the new topic https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/new-controller-for-cif-ft02-reflow-oven/msg641956/#msg641956
 

Offline santiniuk

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Just received an email with PDF from Farnell regarding this oven that we purchased.

Interesting how CIF have worded this issue.


Quote
As our willingness is to provide our customer with top quality products, we suggest reworking your control card to ensure optimal reliability. Reworking will be free of charge and should take no more than 10 open days. Shipping risk and expanses will be on your side.   :--



 

Offline wraperTopic starter

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They give only one month to return since this document created. Like if this is equipment which you can take out of production environment at any moment.  :--
Quote
A recent control in production has shown some batch of reflow ovens FT-02 may present a discrepancy with our quality standard.
1.5 years recent my ass.
 

Offline santiniuk

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To be honest the mail came in just as I was about to leave the office.

I'll follow up with CIF Monday. I really just want them to post out a replacement controller.
 

Offline mcinque

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1.5 years recent my ass.
totally agree.
 

Offline mk_

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Just received an email with PDF from Farnell regarding this oven that we purchased.

Interesting how CIF have worded this issue.


Quote
As our willingness is to provide our customer with top quality products, we suggest reworking your control card to ensure optimal reliability. Reworking will be free of charge and should take no more than 10 open days. Shipping risk and expanses will be on your side.   :--

and also intersting how they solved the problem.

bottomside is unchanged...

well, now 2mm instead of 0,2mm clearance

regards
 

Offline wraperTopic starter

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LOL  :-DD
Instead of changing the copper filling they just routed the top layer  :palm:. If they didn't change the bottom layer, then there is no 2 mm however but only about 0.7 - 0.8 mm because of that stupid trace. And there is still almost no creepage between all of the high voltage traces.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 08:28:12 pm by wraper »
 

Offline wraperTopic starter

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P.S. Seems that their staff is really brain damaged.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Deadly insane design (CIF FT 02 reflow oven) Teardown - rant - safety fix
« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2017, 01:41:49 am »
An MC68hc908 is an 8/16 bit 6809 family not 68K so even earlier than mid 80's. Late 70's early 80's was about when 6809 design-ins were the most popular. Although this particular processor may have come later.
The MC68HC908 series MCUs have nothing do do with the 6809. They use the HC08 core, an enhanced version of the very popular HC05 MCU core of the early 90s. The MC68HC908 parts were popular into the early 2000s.
 

Offline Pinkus

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Improvement ideas:
I threw out the complete electronics soon, as the software which were running on the CIF was pretty crappy too.

I also threw out the 2x 1000W halogen lamps and replaced them with 2x 1500W halogen lamps (I am now using two SSR, one for each lamp). It now works MUCH better and the heating follows the profile (Caution: with the existing hardware/software, changing the lamps is not recommended as the reaction time of the software might be too slow).

Though I added some kind of reflection shield made of stain less steel (I used an old stencil and cutted out the shades) below the lamps to eliminate most of the direct heat and to allow only indirect heat. It now is a stable and pretty good working oven.
 

Offline free_electron

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ohmy.. they just milled an isolation ring in the copper.
And now they have a floating copper island that is 0.2mm from line voltage carrying pins ...

These clowns have never done certification of a board ... nor heard about creapage and clearance distance.
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 


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