Author Topic: Desk/Lab lighting tips?  (Read 48502 times)

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Offline TheBorgTopic starter

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Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« on: November 23, 2013, 04:57:35 am »
I've decided to ramp up my desk/lab area, and one of the things I really need more of is light. Normal lights aren't cutting it for soldering 0402's and I'm sick of putting flashlights in 3rd hands- time for something else.

I've seen a few people here with swing lamps- are these any good for lighting? I suppose if I was going to get one I would get a LED version, but I could just solder a bunch of 5mm leds together and make that into a lamp. So what are you using for lighting and how is it working for you?
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Offline Rory

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2013, 05:15:54 am »
I've been working on lighting over my workbench and I am pretty happy with an articulated arm lamp with a pair of 18" fluorescent tubes with Natural/Daylight color temperature I think it was 5000K. The light is somewhat bluish but the color sharpens up the details for me. With it on the arm it can be suspended about 36 inches above the desktop or bring it down closer if I need more light. Because it's on an arm, it can be adjusted to reduce glare in most circumstances.

For close up work I have a magnifier with a fluorescent ring lamp about the same color temp. 

I did have a warmer/redder "general office use" lamps that weren't good for close-up work.

I would like a set of 6500K lamps but the local chain stores don't carry them in stock. 
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2013, 05:46:39 am »
Primarily re-tasking what I had on hand already (have yet to purchase lamps specifically for the lab), so I have fluorescents for overall lighting (daylight), and a swing arm using an LED flood light (5k/daylight).  Magnification would be nice, but what I have works well enough.

LED in the swing arm made quite an improvement vs. the incandescent bulbs I tried (also had on hand) for all of ~$33USD.
 

Offline andtfoot

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2013, 06:57:30 am »
I have found having two lamps (one on each side of my desk) has improved things a lot for me. Obviously there is more light, but also having the two angles means you don't get as many shadows.
My overhead lighting is pretty poor, so maybe shadows are less of an issue if you have decent overheads.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2013, 08:05:44 pm »
andtfoot is right.  Do pay attention to shadows.

And I hate those "warm white".  They should call it Ripe Mango color light.  Awful.  Purple and Brown (and other color-pairs) look the same.  Trying to read resistor code is hopeless under those light.

I have the 5000K "natural light".  I would prefer 6000-6500K - much closer to real white.
 

Offline Six_Shooter

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2013, 09:13:33 pm »

For close up work I have a magnifier with a fluorescent ring lamp about the same color temp. 


This is what I use, at this point it's the only real lighting I have over my desk. I do have a plan to add some lighting above my desk along with some shelving for more equipment and storage of some often used components.
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2013, 03:41:50 pm »
I bought some very inexpensive florescent light fixtures from a local big box DIY shop (Menards; it's like Home Depot or Lowe's) and put some inexpensive 48" 32W T8 bulbs in them.  i was lucky in that they came with electronic ballasts already.  Spent maybe $40 for two fixtures and 4 bulbs.  An amazing amount of light shines from those things, and they're 4ft long so shadows are not a concern.

I was able to hang them from the exposed joists with some C-clamps, but if I didn't have a convenient place to hang them from, I would have built a small wooden frame to support them.

I've just moved and I'll be hanging them from the ceiling in the garage today.

Lamps are good, articulated lamps are good, giant whopping florescent light fixtures are excellent, and I can put higher wattage lamps in these fixtures I have if I ever need more light.
 

Offline DL8RI

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2013, 04:09:29 pm »
I have a "IKEA Broder" shelf above the Desk (Dave has the same, but with wooden boards).
I mounted two big "Kitchen-lights" (with T5 or T8, can't remember it...) under the first board, it is hard to get it on camera, but it's bright enough for everything and with the two extra Lamps I have nearly no shadowing on the Desk and that is important. Of what use is the best lamp if you have shadows? :--

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Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2013, 10:14:59 pm »
Over my bench, I have a 4 foot, 4 bulb T8 fixture with daylight deluxe bulbs.  I also have a 5 diopter lighted swing arm magnifier for extra magnification/lighting.

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Offline zapta

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2013, 10:49:39 pm »
I am using an old 'classic' Dazor lamp http://www.dazor.com/2&3_Tube_Fluorescents.html  They used to be popular and still gives plenty of light.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 03:05:12 am »
I looked at LED T8 tubes that would fit my light fixture.  The problem is that they are typically around 1900 Lumens or less.  My bulbs in the fixture now are rated at 3150 Lumens.  That and the cost difference, as Dave would say, fail!  waa waa waa waaaaaaaaa!  I could scrimp and save to replace them if the Lumens rating were a lot closer.

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 10:49:08 am »
I looked at LED T8 tubes that would fit my light fixture.  The problem is that they are typically around 1900 Lumens or less.  My bulbs in the fixture now are rated at 3150 Lumens.  That and the cost difference, as Dave would say, fail!  waa waa waa waaaaaaaaa!  I could scrimp and save to replace them if the Lumens rating were a lot closer.

It is closer if you have non-deal reflective troffs, as I measured in a recent video. My lab is now entirely LED lit.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 11:23:20 am »
I have a "IKEA Broder" shelf above the Desk (Dave has the same, but with wooden boards).

Broder, LOL, what an unfortunate name!

My IKEA desk is called JERKER. ::)


It is not jerky at all. It is really solid. I don't enthuse about IKEA products, most of which is lamentably built down to a price point, but this one is an exception. Naturally they discontinued it and replaced it with a cheaper jerkier one.

Is that why it has the cut out area in the front, so you don't bang your knuckles on it when.....  :-DD
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Offline TheBorgTopic starter

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2013, 09:50:31 pm »
Well, desk nomenclature aside, I think I've gained a lot from this topic. I'll definitely look into swing/articulated lamps, as they seem to be the general choice here, and fluorescent/LED seems to be the way to go. I've survived this long using a desk lamp  O0
I might get this swing lamp at HFT if they have it, just for starters, and probably use it as a mount for a DIY fume extractor also.
http://www.harborfreight.com/fluorescent-magnifying-lamp-60643.html



Thanks for the insights!

Edit: Turns out, my dad has an extra 2 lamp T8 shop light. Let the soldering begin!
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 11:16:01 pm by TheBorg »
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Offline Dawn

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 12:05:32 am »
This is something that I too just had to tackle. I've sort of emulated a modular bench that I'm used to working on professionally with a 6' piece of kitchen countertop that sells for the basic white for $40 and built a frame out of furring strips with the verticals 16" apart at the wall studs and covered it with high quality pegboard. On the 16" widths where the wall studs are, I put up 47.5" long track shelving strips with double slots for adjustable shelves. The bench light is a one hung low Luxo ringlite knockoff clamped to the bench and I put 24" long shelf brackets at the very top and mounted a flourescent fixture at the very ends with a shelf on top. That sort of forms an identical modular workbench "light canopy" that is usualy suspended with arms and adjustable. You want it to "look" over the shelves and shine down on the workspace. I also put a small fixture under the first shelf that's about 17" above the work surface between the 16" brackets of the first shelf bottom. In most cases, the ringlite and the small overhead provides enough fill for most projects if I'm just working on the bench. The overhead "canopy" is often needed for working with the test equipment on the shelf or if I need addtional room light. I never knew Ikea made those desks. That's near identical to a commercial modular workbench in form factor. Don't know how they compare in durability although a good 72" x 30" workbench with a single riser and power strip is going to cost around a grand in USD if it's a quality build. Most will adjust to either 30" desk or 25" waist level height. Light options are usually a pair of arms that suspend a flourescent fixture about 45 to 48" above the benchtop. Problem is for those who wear glasses, that arrangement can wash out the glasses and make it near impossible to see what you're doing at the wrong angle.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2013, 02:00:28 pm »
I have a low ceiling in my office/work area.  My fixture is suspended by chains from the ceiling at a height of 35" from the work bench.  I wear glasses and have no issues with the placement of the light.  Nothing gets washed out.  Sometimes the light is a bit inadequate, so I will use my swing arm mounted lighted magnifier to get the extra light I need.  I have to be careful with the magnifier position or I will get glare, but there is no problems with just the overhead fixture.

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Offline Dawn

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2013, 05:59:23 pm »
Tom, that comment was made actually from a similar experience. The first place I worked for moved from a dingy hole to a brand spanking new facility that the emphasis was placed on a state of art shop and an installation bay that could accomodate 2 city busses with plenty of room.
The shop was professionally installed by an arrangement with the manufacturer and included the modular style desk/bench that became popular during the mid 70's. The lighting above the benches was a chain suspended fixture using a large U tube flourescent I think an the 208v circuit also conventional flourescents down the center of the shop. Unlike our old place, this was brightly lit rather then esentially working under bench illumination under the handbuilt wood risers and 2x4 framed workbenches with a particle board surface overlaid with thin plywood. This was an all catalog state of art shop. First problem was the suspended panels couldn't be shut off without the entire shop. Those of us that wore glasses at normal bench positon, our specs went white the moment you turned your head down on the bench. Impossible to work under. The fix was these frame and arm extentions added to the stations like I described. The fixture sort of curved back on arms about parallel with the front edge of the bench and then allowed for the angle of the fixture that had two tubes in it to be angled as well as the arms slid in a ways about to the riser. Benchtops then were 34" deep instead of the current 25-30" and the riser was about 17" above the rear of the bench with about the same depth suported by end panels and upper frame that was full of paired outlets. Very nicely made and heavy benches that you probably wouldn't see today in build. If I had to venture a guess, the new arms that mounted on the rear were about 14-18" and then had  braced angles with another parallel arms to about the front of the desk with another braced angle that had a set of knobs on both sides. That allowed for the light fixture to cant and the overhead arms to telescope a bit inward. Once that got set right, all of us 4 eyes had no further problems. That arrangement is still used in many of the current designs for shop and production.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2013, 09:30:25 pm »
Dawn, you actually had to cant the fixture so there was no glare?  That is interesting.  I built my workbench 34" deep as the 24" I had originally wasn't deep enough after I added 12" shelves.  I have my light fixture's front edge even with the edge of the desk.  Like I said, no glare.  I tried mounting further in over the work area but I found, when I was working on our specialty printers, that the light wasn't enough unless I removed the covers.  Once I moved the light to the edge of the desk, the problem went away.  The Ikea stuff, is nice, but expensive.  My bench cost me about $125-$130 to build and I have 34" by 8' long with 3-8' adjustable shelves and a base shelf under the work top.  It is all free standing so it is movable though heavy with the 2X4 frame and 3/4 worktop.  That is the great thing about DIY.  You build it to your own personal specs and if something doesn't work, you can easily change it until it does.

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Offline Dawn

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2013, 01:09:13 pm »
Tom, I was referring to that bench system back then where releasing two knobs on the sides of where the light fixture was suspendeded allowed a tilting and some degree of inward/outward telescoping. That slight angle to the light was found empirically by sitting at the station in work position and having someone adjust the light to the sweet spot. You've apparently did that to a degree by moving the light further out over the workspace. In these cases, the lightsource is a smaller fixure instead of a huge panel with a diffuser suspended over you. It's more of a point light source then an flood source. If you look at stations on production line floors, you'll often see the light slightly tilted inward rather then straight down and further behind the shelves, but not behind the glasses or the heads of the individuals. Even in my setup, the light source is slighly angled. Not by design, but by the bottom angle of the brackets, but in the other direction. It's also not a very strong source as it's only a 48" GE home depot fixture. I mentioned that I still rely on a much smaller light under the first shelf between two of the brackets and often use only that one along with the ring light since it's only me in the room. The overhead light is tied to the main light switch that also turns on an opposite CFL wall light/scone. I don't have any ceiling lighting in that room. I should also mention that I have an MR-11 halogen spot with a clamp on the lowest riser/shelf that has a gooseneck and one of those inexpensive, little ringlights with the magnifying glass that some of the hot air station companies package along with their stations. Mine's from X-tronic and came with my board preheater base. Nice little light, but appears to be disposable as nobody I know of sells a replacement ringlight and it's soldered in my unit.

This is all in flux Tom. If I can find a better option to suspend a flourescent light source that's a full 72" and more light to add to the room, I'm going to replace it. This is just making due with home center available components for little cost, but attempting to emulate a modular station on the cheap.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2013, 05:11:27 pm »
Actually, my fixture is 48" with 4 T-8 bulbs.  I find that they give a better light than the T-12 fixtures.  I have it suspended over the work area in the middle of the bench and don't worry about the lower light concentration at the ends.  I like the idea of a tilting fixture with locking knobs to hold it in position.  You have given me something to think about.  There are times I would like to get the light closer to my work and re-position it as needed.  I'm going to have a chat with an engineer friend of mine and see if we can dedicate a few brain cells between us to come up with an inexpensive fixture to do the same thing you talk about.  I also will probably look at places like Global Industries, that sell electronics workbenches, and see if they can provide inspiration.  Hmmmm, I already have something Rube Goldberg-esque in mind.  Now I have to figure out how to simplify it. :-/O

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Offline Rigby

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2013, 06:45:58 pm »
Actually, my fixture is 48" with 4 T-8 bulbs.  I find that they give a better light than the T-12 fixtures.  I have it suspended over the work area in the middle of the bench and don't worry about the lower light concentration at the ends.  I like the idea of a tilting fixture with locking knobs to hold it in position.  You have given me something to think about.  There are times I would like to get the light closer to my work and re-position it as needed.  I'm going to have a chat with an engineer friend of mine and see if we can dedicate a few brain cells between us to come up with an inexpensive fixture to do the same thing you talk about.  I also will probably look at places like Global Industries, that sell electronics workbenches, and see if they can provide inspiration.  Hmmmm, I already have something Rube Goldberg-esque in mind.  Now I have to figure out how to simplify it. :-/O

Tom, NW0LF

Ben Krasnow did a video on relighting his shop.  He talks a bit about T5 vs. T8, specifically why T8 & T5 appear to be so much brighter than T12s.  T12s are just silly; I'm pretty sure the bulbs or fixtures aren't made anymore.

edit:
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 06:48:41 pm by Rigby »
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2013, 10:39:01 pm »
T-12 fixtures and bulbs are still available in at least Home Depot, I believe in sizes from 18" to 8'.  I see people by them because of the cheap cost.    I opted out of the T-5 as they are a high output light and give off a lot of heat.  For me, the T-8 was a compromise.  Brighter than the T-12 but not as hot as the T-5.  I use 2 dual bulb 4' fixtures over my L shaped desk and a 4' 4 bulb fixture over my workbench.  All the fixtures use the Phillips daylight deluxe 5000 K bulbs and I am very happy with the setup I have.  My fixtures also don't have diffusers on them.  I use the bare lights themselves.  I do agree with everything Ben says.  The cost really isn't so much an issue, except in the case of the LEDs.  According to Dave's earlier post, he upgraded the EEVblog lab to all LEDs.  The cost for me, to get what I want in terms of lighting is something I simply can't afford at this time.  I work from home, so the purchase of the fixtures and bulbs becomes a non reimbursable business expense that is written off my taxes and I get a portion of my utility bill written off as well.

Tom, NW0LF
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Offline AndersAnd

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2013, 10:47:33 pm »
I can recommend Ikea JANSJĂ– flexible led work lamps.
With flexible goose necks. Very nice and very cheap series of LED spotlights: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/series/18294/



 
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Offline Dawn

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 01:40:03 am »
Interesting video. I'm not an electrician and wasn't aware of the electronic ballasting and the newer T5 tubes. Turns out the 48" fixture that I bought is a T5 inside and mentions no hum on the box, so I assume it's electronic. I'm not happy with the arrangement as is primarly for room lighting which is less then 8' x 10' along with a seperate wall mounted CFL on the other side. A drop ceiling isn't in my budget and I'm using an old, unrestored utility room of the house.

I looked through an older copy of Contact East's calalog which is now Jensen. They used to be a lot more plant/production oriented before the merger and have many different manufacturers from about 12 years ago. Without exception, every station, from every manufacturer they show uses either a 48" or 72" fixture with two T8 bulbs inside. That's a lot more light then the one I purchased with a single bulb.

 I never thought of drilling a hole in the sides of 24" shelf brackets once I found the right spot and then run a bolt through into the fixture sides and have the fixture between them. That would allow for a swiveling. Or maybe taking a look at commercial assemblies from some of these companies that still exist and see what their arm/light combinations are. While they won't fit the dual track I have, they can be mounted on the shelf arms which are available from 6"-24" lengths. The next smallest in the series: 21.5", 16", 14.5",11.75",8" for a variety of shelf sizes. The lighting is once set and forget, so a permanent option might be just as good.

Regarding my 25" deep surface. That number is deceptive now. I'm used to working on 30 and 34" depths, but equipment along the rear taking up valuable bench space. That's less of a factor now with nothing across the rear is deeper in thickness besides my Rigol scope. The service monitor has been moved to the very corner with one of those wire shelves at 30" high supporting the rear off the side of the bench and the 40A power supply has a remote head that the unit itself sits on the lower rung of that shelf. I also have a large scope cart for spectrum analyzer keeping it off the bench. I've tried flopping the monitor and spectrum analyzer around and the monitor works better on the bench with it's tail supported off the side. I'm rethinking the 16" shelving in favor of 12" deep shelves. Most of what I have now will fit on a 12" except my Kiethely counter which is 16". I can set that on top of the service monitor. My older equipment such as the analog scope which is a HP1707 can stay on the old bench if needed along with some older equipment that I've either replaced with smaller or don't use much anymore, but still need to have around. This bench is more an upgrade and the entire right side is devoted to rework. I have to make the best of the space I have as I barely have 5 feet to work in and that's hampered by two carts and maybe even a roll around,upright bin holder soon.
 

Offline Dawn

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Re: Desk/Lab lighting tips?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2013, 08:03:13 am »
Check out this .pdf on bench components for the Arlink stations.
  Plenty of ideas in all the below.

http://www.listaintl.com/sites/default/files/product-literature/pdf/arlink_08_cat.pdf

Also take a look at IAC/Bevco
http://www.iacindustries.com/

Their line has expanded to pedastal/track systems, but are one of the old guard 4 foot bench with side columns and a single riser shelf above them.

 www.1proline.com 

  Site is offline when I checked, but the cached image still works.


http://www.pbasics.com/   

Track/frame benches.
 


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