Vaccum desoldering station recommendation

[dorkshoei]

I'm looking for a vacuum desoldering station.    I used to have a Weller DS600 but sold it as I wasn't doing much electronics at the time.   In hindsight I should have kept it.

Anyhow.  find myself needing something again (my need is through-hole on old boards).   The one nice thing about Weller is that parts are readily available (even if it's discontinued, eBay seems to have steady supply cheap).   So I'd like to avoid some no-name where parts will be unobtainium in a  year (even if it's cheap, as I hate the disposable electronics culture).

Problem is I'd like to stay around $100-150 for just a desoldering unit.    Any recommendations (new or used) that I should be focusing on.    I guess I'd be willing to pay more for a combined desolder/rework station.

[smbaker]

I have a Hakko 808. It's a self-contained gun rather than a desoldering station, but it seems to work reasonably well. Hakko seems to have discontinued it (in favor of the FR-300?), but Aoyue seems to have made a knock-off in the Aoyue 8800.

I'm not sure how the handheld guns compare in performance to a tabletop desoldering station. My biggest issue is that usually I'm too lazy to drag it out of the drawer, clear off some bench space, and fire it up, and just go for some desoldering wick instead.

[KL27x]

I was going to withhold comment.

My biggest issue is that usually I'm too lazy to drag it out of the drawer, clear off some bench space, and fire it up, and just go for some desoldering wick instead.

Now I can't hold back. Buy a good solder sucker. Sorry OP. Sidetrack city.

DP-100: http://www.amazon.com/Jonard-DP-100-Vacuum-Desoldering-Length/dp/B001DPUXWG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1445578996&sr=8-2&keywords=dp-100

http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Deluxe-Soldapullt-Heavy-Vacuum/dp/B006GOKVKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445579027&sr=8-1&keywords=soldapullt

I have a roll of solderwick. Bought it nearly ten years ago, and I have 75% of it still left. Using the right soldering iron tip, bridges are... what's a bridge? It's nothing but some extra solder to pick up and redistribute when my iron tip gets dry.

But solderwick doesn't remove thru hole parts or clear plated through holes. Hence a good solder sucker is simply must-have. I have used the $6.00 suckers; broke 3 of them. And they don't have the power on plated thru holes. These do. (Cut a notch in the tip and hold it over the iron!)

FTR, I have a cheap vacuum desoldering gun, and I never use it. You have to run it super hot to keep the nozzle from clogging. Tips wear out fast as a result. The thing is more of a PITA to clean than a solder sucker. And like smbaker says, it takes a long time to warm up. 

I wouldn't even think about plugging in and turning on my desoldering station unless I had a big ole batch of through hole screw-ups to fix. And it still probably wouldn't save time/effort over a good solder sucker... it would just be more fun to change things up. Fiddling with the little spring and filter when cleaning it. Using wire to clean the nozzle. Putting the fiddly parts back together. Errr... The solder suckers break in half, dump the contents, peel off the solder sticking on the end of the plunger, and clean the steel rod. Slap back together and ready to rock. If you have two of them, you can go twice as long. IMO, the average hobbyist needs a cheap desoldering gun about as much as an extra thumb. If you think it looks good on your bench, it won't be a total waste of bench space.

[nidlaX]

As KL27x says, the 808 style guns can be extremely annoying to clean and service, which is why I returned mine (the ZD version that Dave has reviewed) in favor of a hand pump and wick.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk

[Shock]

Nothing wrong with an electronic desoldering pump. But you should buy one after mastering the desoldering wick and the solder sucker (manual/hand pump) first. Hot air rework stations (Chinese ones are about $50) are more practical than electronic pumps as it both solders and desolders smd and can desolder huge through hole components on ground planes without needing an assortment of tips, also good for heatshrink, quite a useful tool.

Anyway one of the new designs is the HAKKO FR-300. The ZD-917 and ZD-915 and what ever brands they are sold as had some bad experiences here on the forum.

[SteveLy]

Dave's desoldering station:

They go for around $AU180, which is about $US140.

[GreyWoolfe]

I got the ZD-985 based on Dave's review.  The only times I have clogged it up is if I don't let it run for a moment after lifting off of the pcb so the solder goes into the catch tube.  I also use wick if I just have a couple of joints to clean.  The ZD-985 does work pretty well and I have a 25% off next purchase from memotronics.  It does seem that it isn't available any more but memotronics does stock all the consumables from tips and filters to whole replacement guns.

[John Coloccia]

I have a 472D with a selection of tips. It works very well. Yes, it does require some maintenance depending on how much you use it, but the maintenance is very simple/fast, and the consumables are cheap. I typically service mine once or twice a week, depending on use, and I use it pretty much everyday. Great station.

Desoldering pumps are OK. They're certainly cheap, and they do sorta work for some jobs. That said, if your boards are tight, like many production boards are, and you need to desolder reliably without damage, it's hard to beat a real desoldering station.

Dave's looked pretty cool. It didn't seem available in the USA when I was in the market, and I worried about availability of consumables if I ordered one from overseas. Maybe the situation is changed now? Looks like it would make a great hobbyist station.

[jeff.remus]

Pace works great, metcal was better, jbc is the best

[PA4TIM]

Here a Pace too. Bought a used one a few years ago for 250 euro (MBT250, solder iron, soldersucker , tweezers, stands, manuals, spares, tools, accessories and tips )
Replaced the solder-iron last year  and the heaterelement of the sucker (the latter was my own fault)

Before  Pace I used the non heated soldersuckers (removed the piston/spring and connected a vacuum pump instead)
I sometimes use wick.

I have a cheap desoldergun I never use. It is complete useless. It does not have enough heating power, get clogged etc.

[0xdeadbeef]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/best-desoldering-station-in-the-market/

[jahck2]

I advise you if I should buy a DS600 weller, I have managed to get this new station, and I would like to know your opinion if you buy this DS600 weller or a hakko or another brand, thank you.

[Southerner]

 Buy a good solder sucker. Sorry OP. Sidetrack city.

That might be ok for some but it does not work very well if the joint cools before I can get the sucker over the joint and activated before it re solidifies.  It is particulary bad in through hole plated connections of which I am dealing now.  I, too, am trying to find a decent desoldering station.  I ordered a Star Tec 90101_US yesterday after corresponding with a salesman for 2 months.  Today they refunded my money saying the 901 (I thought it was 902 from this page:
http://www.startecproducts.de/index_eng.php?page=ent_eng#top

was what I wanted for my Weller WTCPT iron but guess it was the 90101.  At any rate,  I was told that because they have no UL rating they can't sell me one for use in USA and would not tell me what transformer it uses so I could do the mod myself.  The Hakko FR300 FR301 and Chinese clones might be ok but look to be a bit large.

[Seph.b]

Tip I discovered to make the little $3 suckers work worth a crap. Spray a bit of oil in them next time they spring apart on you. You get a tiny bit of smoke with each suck, but they have way more suction since they can spring back faster. Your fume extractor will take care of the smoke so it is a none issue.

Edit: Forgot a word.

[Acecool]

I'm looking for a unit too... I'm sick of the spring loaded pump - it's annoying to use...

I noticed someone attached a fish o2 pump or something to a clear line to one of the cheap $6 units and took out the plunger... The author reported that it works well, but I'm not sure because of the heat issue - although they said the heat goes up because of constant force... http://www.instructables.com/id/Hot-air-soldering-gun-from-a-desoldering-iron-with/


I've been looking into guns and other units - but what has always been a problem for me is heat with old soldering irons so I'm not about to spend $6 on one of these because I know it won't work for what I do....

I may end up getting a desoldering station, or simply get a gun and modify the wires so I can plug it into a slot on my Zeny 853D ( Either the 8 wire plug for the heater, or the 5 wire plug for the iron ) but I still need to find the wiring diagrams, get a gun, etc.... then I'd have a desoldering 'station' as part of my rework station - worst case I could enlarge the case to add an extra plug, and electronics if I can find a DYI solution or electronics on eBay or elsewhere.... I really need to get a 3D printer... that'd help a lot...

[GerryBags]

I got one of the Aoyue 474A++ guns, and it works fairly well as long as you remember to keep the filter in the airway on the gun moist. Once it dries out it doesn't suck properly and the pump gets louder. The tip temp seems fairly accurate (within a couple of degrees) and it gets there fairly fast. For the price, I can't complain.

[Acecool]

By adding moisture you're adding resistance to the airflow or to a seal... You probably just have a bad O-Ring somewhere which is why it isn't sucking properly... The filter comes into contact / or fills the area at the back, from what I've seen of all guns, where the o-ring is supposed to seal.. By adding fluid, with the filter material you're clogging the leak, essentially.... So if you just fix that area by adding a bigger washer / o-ring, or something around that area then you'll likely resolve the issues...


As for me - I'm thinking of buying just a gun and using an air blower motor I have and wiring it up to my current rework station... It really doesn't look all complicated... I could wire it up in a way that it uses either the heat-gun area ( especially as that means I can use the dial to control the power of the motor ) but I'd probably need to add an extra circuit and a switch to switch the dial from sucking motor control / power to the different motor - or I wonder.... it may be possible to build a simple attachment to the heat-gun motor to disable the heat, and reverse the leads on the motor with a switch so it sucks - then it'll be cool area being sucked and that could act as the vacuum... Then I wouldn't need to use a secondary motor, I'd have control over the amount is sucks - and I'd wire up a trigger to enable / disable it... so I'd have to set up a relay probably so it's closed by default except when the gun is plugged in - and I'll likely need a second connection for that....


I'm going to look up mods to see what others have done - because if I can simply add the feature to my existent rework station ( ZENY 853D - which I already modified in the past so be able to remove the heat-gun just like the soldering iron / want ) then I'll be more likely to actually use it because it'll be there.......


It's probably better if I have a 3rd plug to connect the gun into, then I'd need the nipple, filter area for the motor and it is probably best to have a separate motor inside the unit..

Is there an electrical circuit which can remember the potentiometer state, or whatever the dial does in my unit ( does anyone have a wiring diagram for it? ) so I can keep the heat gun plugged in, and flick a switch so if I want to use the desoldering gun and the heat gun at the same time, I can adjust the dial then flick a switch and it'll then be used for the vacuum motor instead.....


Looks like I have some work to do... but it could be a fun project and I'll see about documenting my progress if I end up doing it so others with the same, or similar unit can get away with spending $40 or so on a gun, and $5 or so for a motor, give or take up to $5, and a few extra for connectors, wire, etc.. dial, etc.. although I'm sure there are already motor controllers incredibly inexpensively..

I just need to see how much power my unit can currently provide so see if I have to add to the board a separate power circuit or if I can piggyback...

Any advice would be appreciated - and if anyone has a wiring diagram for the Zeny 853D it'd be greatly appreciated...

Oh - I am open to the idea of buying the ZD-985 but someone said there was a huge flaw in the design which could lead to a fire or other issue ( ended up discoloring their tip after it went to 800 or 900 degrees??? )... and I don't want to spend $200 on something with a flaw that big...

I'd prefer to only spend $100...

[BradC]

I'm thinking of buying just a gun and using an air blower motor I have and wiring it up to my current rework station...

Any advice would be appreciated

I think you'll struggle. Actually, I *know* you will. Your current rework station is built for flow, not pressure. You'll need vacuum to get solder through a gun.
Look at the whole picture from the tip through to the pump. Small tubes, small orifices, restrictive filters.. All those require a significant pressure differential to get a workable flow.

The Aoyue unit uses a double acting diaphragm positive displacement pump. It makes enough vacuum to do the job (barely). Look at the Hakko original and it uses a DC motor driven small positive displacement pump. It makes considerably more vacuum.

Now look at your *** 853D rework station. It has (or appears to) a centrifugal blower. Plenty of flow at next to no static pressure. Wrong tool for the job.

As for this :

So if you just fix that area by adding a bigger washer / o-ring, or something around that area then you'll likely resolve the issues...

By properly sealing the vacuum path and pump on my Aouye 701A, I increased the ultimate (measured) vacuum by over half. That made it go from "workable" to "really not too bad". The biggest issue is the pump down time when you pull the trigger as the pump has a fair bit of dead space on the vacuum size. So you're starting at atmospheric and waiting for it to pull down 11" of vac to give the flow from the tip. Not ideal.

My next experiment is to take the 24VDC vacuum pump and solenoid I have sitting in a box here, add a vacuum reservoir and see what improves when I go from 11" of vacuum to 18". It should also give a much more "instant" vacuum.

[bsudbrink]

I'll add another vote for a PACE MBT-250 and an SX-80 or better hand piece.  Can be had for reasonable money used, easy to service and well built.  "Snap-VAC" works very well and the SX-80, SX-90, SX-100 tips never clog (for me anyway).  Disposable traps are a plus.  Changed in seconds, you don't even need to power off the unit.  The hand pieces are nice and light, compared to the all-in-one guns especially.  I have a Hakko 808 too, but haven't used it in years.

[GreyWoolfe]

Oh - I am open to the idea of buying the ZD-985 but someone said there was a huge flaw in the design which could lead to a fire or other issue ( ended up discoloring their tip after it went to 800 or 900 degrees??? )... and I don't want to spend $200 on something with a flaw that big...

Mine doesn't get used that often but I have never had anything like that happen.  I have set the temp to 800 degrees to help me free the tube when I don't desolder properly but it has never run away on temp.  The 2 issues I had was a failed heating element and I burned a hole in the vacuum tube by accident.

[GerryBags]

By adding moisture you're adding resistance to the airflow or to a seal... You probably just have a bad O-Ring somewhere which is why it isn't sucking properly... The filter comes into contact / or fills the area at the back, from what I've seen of all guns, where the o-ring is supposed to seal.. By adding fluid, with the filter material you're clogging the leak, essentially.... So if you just fix that area by adding a bigger washer / o-ring, or something around that area then you'll likely resolve the issues...

It says in the instructions not to let it dry out, as suction will be impaired.

[bson]

The Hakko FR-300 is the cat's meow.  TH parts take no time to speak off to remove, just wiggle and suck.  For SMD it cleans up old solder really well, just run the nozzle over the pads and it's nice and clean again to get the replacement on there (and more importantly, level).  Just hot air to remove, suck clean, repaste, place IC, hot air, and it's like original again.

[DimitriP]

I'll add another vote for a PACE MBT-250 and an SX-80 or better hand piece.  Can be had for reasonable money used, easy to service and well built.  "Snap-VAC" works very well and the SX-80, SX-90, SX-100 tips never clog (for me anyway).  Disposable traps are a plus.  Changed in seconds, you don't even need to power off the unit.  The hand pieces are nice and light, compared to the all-in-one guns especially.  I have a Hakko 808 too, but haven't used it in years.

You can say that again!
 
..and you don't have to worry about getting a clone/fake  either
I'm not a fan of many brands, but Pace is one of them. Especially for tools that "suck"

[helius]

The biggest issue is the pump down time when you pull the trigger as the pump has a fair bit of dead space on the vacuum size. So you're starting at atmospheric and waiting for it to pull down 11" of vac to give the flow from the tip. Not ideal.

My next experiment is to take the 24VDC vacuum pump and solenoid I have sitting in a box here, add a vacuum reservoir and see what improves when I go from 11" of vacuum to 18". It should also give a much more "instant" vacuum.

Some of the Hakko units I have seen (like the 472) have a spring-driven check valve in the vacuum path to reduce the dead space. Some stations do use a reservoir/solenoid arrangement (OKI MTR-4000 I think has it).

[Southerner]

I got one of the Aoyue 474A++ guns, and it works fairly well as long as you remember to keep the filter in the airway on the gun moist.

How do you keep it moist?  Water?  Oil?