Does your TS100 temperature measure accurately?

[Rooster Cogburn]

I can melt my sn62pb36ag2 (should liquify at 180C) with the iron set to 190C, so that's pretty good, I'd say. But when I measure the tip temperature with the tip tester or the DMM, the discrepancy increases the higher the temperature gets. Set temp 350C = 318C tip thermometer / 295C DMM, that's very far off.

Fluke rates their thermocouple to 250C, but from what I understand it should work fine at higher temperatures. At room temperature the tip tester and the DMM agree on the ambient temperature, but it's hard to test both equally well on an iron tip. I can imagine the ~20C discrepancy between them is because of the large thermal mass of the DMM thermocouple and the different ways of pressing them on the tip.

I know there's different PCB revisions, many different firmware releases, different tips and defective tips. 270C vs 300C and 318C vs 350C is a pretty massive temperature differential right inside the typical working range of a soldering iron. I guess my hardware might have a defect, but then again that video I linked shows the exact same problem, so maybe it's just a certain PCB revisions that's performing poorly. Or both my DMM & tip thermometer are inaccurate.

[MacMeter]

I can melt my sn62pb36ag2 (should liquify at 180C) with the iron set to 190C, so that's pretty good, I'd say. But when I measure the tip temperature with the tip tester or the DMM, the discrepancy increases the higher the temperature gets. Set temp 350C = 318C tip thermometer / 295C DMM, that's very far off.

Fluke rates their thermocouple to 250C, but from what I understand it should work fine at higher temperatures. At room temperature the tip tester and the DMM agree on the ambient temperature, but it's hard to test both equally well on an iron tip. I can imagine the ~20C discrepancy between them is because of the large thermal mass of the DMM thermocouple and the different ways of pressing them on the tip.

I know there's different PCB revisions, many different firmware releases, different tips and defective tips. 270C vs 300C and 318C vs 350C is a pretty massive temperature differential right inside the typical working range of a soldering iron. I guess my hardware might have a defect, but then again that video I linked shows the exact same problem, so maybe it's just a certain PCB revisions that's performing poorly. Or both my DMM & tip thermometer are inaccurate.

I think that’s about the best you are going to get. I got tired of chasing temps, but was satisfied I’m close in the areas of importance.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I think that’s about the best you are going to get. I got tired of chasing temps, but was satisfied I’m close in the areas of importance.

But you yourself said

first I’ve heard of one not getting close to it’s set temp

and now you're telling me 300C->270C / 350C->318C is as close as I'm going to get? Booooooo

To me, this kind of performance is ultimately not acceptable. I don't know which device is at fault here, but a tip thermometer or an iron being off by >30C in the normal soldering range marks that device as to be repaired / replaced. It's certainly OK while I'm messing around and learning stuff, but I have some bigger projects I want to get into and some pricier electronics to mod/repair and there's no point in breaking some device worth hundreds of dollars because I cheaped out on my equipment and it fried a PCB/chip with 400C when I wanted 350C or whatever.

If I set my bench PSU to 20V and my DMM tells me 15V, one or both of those (or my approach to measurement...) is not working. And yes, I know, the experienced engineer will eventually notice that the voltage is too low and adjust, but I'd rather just set 20V and get 20V and worry about my actual task

[MacMeter]

I think that’s about the best you are going to get. I got tired of chasing temps, but was satisfied I’m close in the areas of importance.

But you yourself said

first I’ve heard of one not getting close to it’s set temp

and now you're telling me 300C->270C / 350C->318C is as close as I'm going to get? Booooooo

To me, this kind of performance is ultimately not acceptable. I don't know which device is at fault here, but a tip thermometer or an iron being off by >30C in the normal soldering range marks that device as to be repaired / replaced. It's certainly OK while I'm messing around and learning stuff, but I have some bigger projects I want to get into and some pricier electronics to mod/repair and there's no point in breaking some device worth hundreds of dollars because I cheaped out on my equipment and it fried a PCB/chip with 400C when I wanted 350C or whatever.

If I set my bench PSU to 20V and my DMM tells me 15V, one or both of those (or my approach to measurement...) is not working. And yes, I know, the experienced engineer will eventually notice that the voltage is too low and adjust, but I'd rather just set 20V and get 20V and worry about my actual task

I’m NOT telling you what you will or are getting, just what I’m GETTING. Odd that I don’t see other users reporting their temp being as far off as you. If the performance is not acceptable to you, RETURN or sell them. Get the new Pace station at $240.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I’m NOT telling you what you will or are getting, just what I’m GETTING. Odd that I don’t see other users reporting their temp being as far off as you. If the performance is not acceptable to you, RETURN or sell them. Get the new Pace station at $240.

Ah OK, misunderstood you then. But like I mentioned many times, that video I linked shows the same temperature discrepancy I'm having. I can't return my TS100 anymore, it's cheap Chinese stuff, no generous return windows or warranties

I just posted here trying to understand what the problem is. TS100? Measurement devices? I still have no idea

I think Pace is mostly a US brand, I don't think you can even buy those here. Never seen one. But I see your point. In the end the TS100 is decent for its price but I'll eventually need to move on to something more reliable.

[wraper]

About calibration not working, I'd guess that's an issue with user, not tool.

[Rooster Cogburn]

About calibration not working, I'd guess that's an issue with user, not tool.

I don't think there's anything you can do to calibrate the TS100, besides the internal calibration procedure that gets the tip & handle thermometers in-sync. I can only measure the temperature. What I do is take a large tip, press it against the thermocouple and add some solder to ensure the best possible thermal transfer. Not sure what I could do differently :/

[Gyro]

I don't see why it's such a big problem for you. If you trust your thermocouple measurement more that the TS100 temperature display, then simply adjust the TS100 temperature until the thermocouple reading matches what you desire.

Tip temperature isn't something that you constantly need to change. You still have the boost function if you want a second one.

[wraper]

I think it should be possible to change cal by editing text file.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I don't see why it's such a big problem for you. If you trust your thermocouple measurement more that the TS100 temperature display, then simply adjust the TS100 temperature until the thermocouple reading matches what you desire.

Tip temperature isn't something that you constantly need to change. You still have the boost function if you want a second one.

I mentioned that before, quoting myself:

"For instance, when I do SMD work I set a very low temperature. Soldering in 0603 components and removing solder bridges on a QFP requires very little heat. Can keep the risk of damaging components and the rate of burning off flux to a minimum. The same temperature will be utterly useless when trying to desolder a THT connector on some board with lead-free solder and a gigantic ground plane. But better not keep that temperature when wicking the solder of small pads as the heat can cause the epoxy to melt. I found that SMD aluminium eletrolytics require a bit more heat as they're often very inconvenient to solder and there's a risk of producing bad joints when it's hard to make contact with the pad."

And so on. I find myself adjusting the temperature now and then, not just once a day. And why wouldn't I, using the lowest temperature that still allows for short soldering times and quality joints is a good idea. I don't want to memorize some kind of temperature lookup table or have a bunch of pseudo temperatures in my head that apply only to this particular miscalibrated soldering iron. Being able to set a temperature and have the tip actually get there withing acceptable error bounds seems like a basic feature and a very low bar to pass. If that turns out to be impossible on the TS100 or there's some kind of PCB revision or tip quality lottery, then I just have to accept that I'll have to eventually move on to something better.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I think it should be possible to change cal by editing text file.

The Ralim firmware does not use a config file, but the official one has it with some kind of offset feature. The language in the manual makes it seem like the setting would be written automatically by the firmware when it does its calibration procedure, though. One issue is that the temperature differential I measure is not linear but increases with the actual temperature. From what I've read about soldering iron calibration issues, that's pretty common / expected. I could try shifting the error around a bit so the 280 - 380 range etc. has the least error, that would probably be an improvement! Would have to go back to official firmware, though. Losing boost mode but at least sleep would work again

[Gyro]

Sleep does appear to work again, from my testing so far anyway, as of V2.04.1 (today). 

I guess everyone is different, I tend to use the same soldering temp for everything, that's what thermal regulation and recovery is about. I just use the Boost function for desoldering heavy stuff.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Thanks for letting me know, just gave it a shot, appears to be fixed! Temperature control still seems much worse than a few versions ago, though. Seems like the control loop just tries very hard not to undershoot, so cooling down from boost mode or to the idle temp takes a very long time as the heater still fires.

I did some more temperature measurements. Both the DMM and the tip thermometer are both consistently below the set temperature of the TS100. I could never get both of the to agree, the DMM is always like 15-20C below the tip thermometer. I always suspected that it's just harder to make contact. I did some more experiments and turns out I simply have to measure a bit higher up on the tip. If I place my solder ball there, I can get DMM & tip thermometer to agree with <3C divergence. Seems like this TS100 has just absolutely broken temperature regulation, getting worse the hotter the temperature is set.

Also, I can't get the cabling to work reliable. I already swapped between three different DC connectors to get the tightest fit, but I still have the iron restart sometimes. I'm now using a connector with just the right depth, but if I tug and wiggle the connector / cable for about a minute I can still get the iron to reset to the main screen as it seems the power cuts out for just a split second. A DC connector is just not the right type for attaching a handpiece.

[Rooster Cogburn]

For what it's worth, I thought I share my findings with some more measurements on the official forum:

http://www.minidso.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=3168

Maybe they can fix that PCB revision / up the quality-control.