Flux paste from ebay

[psysc0rpi0n]

Hello.

I'm looking for a reasonable flux paste from ebay but I see there so many items for so many different prices that I want to ask first what to avoid and what to consider.
In the range of up to 10€ or 12€, what can I consider and what I should definitely avoid? I need a couple of suggestions. Flux paste will only be used for home simple projects that might include soldering SMD components!
I have an Ersa i-con Pico if it matters to choose the best flux for the given price!

Thanks

[KL27x]

The main thing to avoid is "water soluble." Also, you should avoid halides, ammonium or zinc chloride. But unless you buy generic flux from banggood (or you accidentally buy plumber's flux), pretty much no electrical flux with have halides in them.

Other than that, most electrical fluxes are very similar. Find someone who gets really excited about flux. Then ask them how many other fluxes they've tried. If you look up the part number for the datasheet, you might get more information. Some are tweaked to be slightly better for certain things.

You might want to check electronics component or equipment store where you normally shop, too. I think your chances of getting a fake are probably lower.

[psysc0rpi0n]

Ok. Thanks for those details.

So what about these 2 examples:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-quality-Rosin-Soldering-Flux-Paste-Solder-Welding-Grease-50-80-150g/192049930011?hash=item2cb7115f1b%3Am%3AmZHG_8EK7etbIPBaDxKMgRQ&var=491870569354&_sacat=0&_nkw=flux+paste&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100g-AMTECH-RMA-223-Solder-Flux-Solder-Paste-for-BGA-Reballing-Rework/122249676470?epid=1161394070&hash=item1c76a606b6%3Ag%3AHGsAAOSwbw1aB~uB&_pgn=1&_sacat=0&_nkw=amtech+rma-223&_from=R40&rt=nc


And why is there so huge difference in price for this another AMTECH RMA-223
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMTECH-Flux-solder-paste-SMT-BGA-PCB-IC-RMA-223-TPF-UV-Original-100g/201608327948?epid=1931357093&hash=item2ef0caf30c%3Ag%3Ak78AAMXQVOhRF0-i&_pgn=1&_sacat=0&_nkw=amtech+rma-223&_from=R40&rt=nc

Is it because there is actually a real AMTECH brand and a fake AMTECH brand?

[sn4k3]

I have used some fluxs over time, some liquid, gel, paste, tacky.

For my suprise fake amtech RMA syringes (Gold Yellow color from outside view) works very well for cleaning, since them i don't use anything else but these to cleaning or remove, after i clean the board, IPA works when liquid or hot, if it solidify you need to use flux cleaner. Still i find leave flux in is not a problem with these. Fumes are ok, not bad at all, still you should have a extractor.

for NC flux the best i ever used was the InterFlux IF 8300, that thing works like magic, and is a bit tacky so it hold the component better. A downside is the fume it produce, it easly put you underperformance if you breath that thing. http://www.interflux.com/en/rework-and-repair
 
I also use NC amtech syringes, they work good but they turn black residue if you keep the iron there for a time. Fumes smells like burn coal.

For liquid flux i use some pens in the past, flux there sucks, so i buy one liquid from ebay that work very well, i can search for it if you interested on liquid flux. But InterFlux have liquid flux and i bet they are very good: https://www.ebay.com/itm/50ml-INTERFLUX-IF8001-no-clean-LIQUID-solder-flux/331566898405

I use paste flux for wires, so i stick the wire there and tin

Overall i only use syringes, the idea of have a can and you need a tool is messy and need more time to apply. syringes are easier.

And why is there so huge difference in price for this another AMTECH RMA-223

One can design look like original, other don't. You still don't know about the inside content!

Mechanic flux is also good, is a real chinesse repair shop, they use quality stuff

[hermit]

The stuff I got from sleezebay was quite short on the fill.  I don't remember the exact figures but it was something like and under filled 100g tub relabeled as 150g.  Seller didn't dispute my claim and I got a refund and the seller didn't bother asking for a return.  Stuff works OK.

[psysc0rpi0n]

I have used some fluxs over time, some liquid, gel, paste, tacky.

For my suprise fake amtech RMA syringes (Gold Yellow color from outside view) works very well for cleaning, since them i don't use anything else but these to cleaning or remove, after i clean the board, IPA works when liquid or hot, if it solidify you need to use flux cleaner. Still i find leave flux in is not a problem with these. Fumes are ok, not bad at all, still you should have a extractor.

for NC flux the best i ever used was the InterFlux IF 8300, that thing works like magic, and is a bit tacky so it hold the component better. A downside is the fume it produce, it easly put you underperformance if you breath that thing. http://www.interflux.com/en/rework-and-repair
 
I also use NC amtech syringes, they work good but they turn black residue if you keep the iron there for a time. Fumes smells like burn coal.

For liquid flux i use some pens in the past, flux there sucks, so i buy one liquid from ebay that work very well, i can search for it if you interested on liquid flux. But InterFlux have liquid flux and i bet they are very good: https://www.ebay.com/itm/50ml-INTERFLUX-IF8001-no-clean-LIQUID-solder-flux/331566898405

I use paste flux for wires, so i stick the wire there and tin

Overall i only use syringes, the idea of have a can and you need a tool is messy and need more time to apply. syringes are easier.

And why is there so huge difference in price for this another AMTECH RMA-223

One can design look like original, other don't. You still don't know about the inside content!

Mechanic flux is also good, is a real chinesse repair shop, they use quality stuff

Manda-me PM. Eu sou português. [Send me a PM. I'm Portuguese.]

[psysc0rpi0n]

The stuff I got from sleezebay was quite short on the fill.  I don't remember the exact figures but it was something like and under filled 100g tub relabeled as 150g.  Seller didn't dispute my claim and I got a refund and the seller didn't bother asking for a return.  Stuff works OK.

Ebay seller was sleezebaby? I need to be careful then when it comes the time to buy! Thanks for warning me!

[exe]

I suggest don't buy fluxes from ebay / aliexpress / etc. Most of them fakes. I can't stop being surprised how much people discuss counterfeit fluxes. There are infinite discussion which fake is better. There is even some consensus what fakes are "the best", but this makes me laughing because different sellers sell different flux (different color, consistency, smell, etc) under the same name.

Buy a "real thing" (tm) from a reputable source.

[psysc0rpi0n]

...

Buy a "real thing" (tm) from a reputable source.

Such as??...

[exe]

...

Buy a "real thing" (tm) from a reputable source.

Such as??...

Digikey, mouser, tme, rs-online, farnell, reichelt... If not sure, go for tme and buy cheap Polish rosin-based  fluxes .

[sn4k3]

Or homemade stuff, with some pratice is possible to create a good RMA with same consistency if you use a scale  And you will always know what's inside
Most of that china flux are homemade or made in a shop in large quantity and sell as refills under amtech brand or others. That way flux vary so much.

[exe]

Or homemade stuff, with some pratice is possible to create a good RMA with same consistency if you use a scale

Do you know a good recipe? Pure rosin in spirit does not make a good flux, imho. Still could be useful for new and shiny parts. Activators needed.

Most of that china flux are homemade or made in a shop in large quantity and sell as refills under amtech brand or others. That way flux vary so much.

Worse yet, they may add acid or something. This way it will solder well, but will be overly corrosive and conductive.

[sn4k3]

Do you know a good recipe? Pure rosin in spirit does not make a good flux, imho. Still could be useful for new and shiny parts. Activators needed.

I don't. Yep, you need more ingredients than that, i saw some youtube videos about that, i can try to find the link.
Can also be used for liquid flux (Alcohol based)

Worse yet, they may add acid or something. This way it will solder well, but will be overly corrosive and conductive.

Yes, they can add whatever they want xD Who use that cheap flux should always clean the board.
As i said before mechanic brand is a good bet (real repair shop), but who knows 

[KL27x]

Worse yet, they may add acid or something. This way it will solder well, but will be overly corrosive and conductive.

This is what "activators" usually are. In a proper flux the added activator is typically an organic acid. Once the rosin/resin residue completely solidifies, it is not conductive or corrosive.

The super cheap banggood stuff that costs the same as a package of air plus shipping sometimes have mineral acid and/or halides. I ordered a bottle of generic soldering flux once, before I really knew what I wanted. At least the ingredients were listed on the bottle. They included nitric acid and zinc chloride. For all I know, I ordered the wrong stuff, and this might be perfectly good "water soluble" flux.

Honestly, the cheap chinese stuff is probably fine, for the most part, if you buy the correct type. They can sell it cheaper because they don't pay a distributor 25%-50% of the gross sale price. But unless you use industrial quantities, you aren't going to save but a few pennies. And you might never recoup the cost if you are unlucky and get a bad/incorrect flux on your first order.

[psysc0rpi0n]

I think I'm going for the original stuff. Either RMA-223 or the NC-559 should be more than enough for me. I just need for small home made projects, so I don't need anything that much fancy. Probably NC-559 is a good choice. And even if I buy the RMA-223 I'll be ok too!

[exe]

Just don't forget to clean them off of them board (even if it's written "no-clean", it's not what most people think).

[psysc0rpi0n]

Just don't forget to clean them off of them board (even if it's written "no-clean", it's not what most people think).

Sure I will. I already bought a bottle of isopropyl alcohol.

For small jobs, is it better the NC or the RMA version? Apparently RMA is more for cleaning and NC is a bit for both cleaning and helping the soldering process, right? Should I go for the NC?

[nanofrog]

I think I'm going for the original stuff. Either RMA-223 or the NC-559 should be more than enough for me. I just need for small home made projects, so I don't need anything that much fancy. Probably NC-559 is a good choice. And even if I buy the RMA-223 I'll be ok too!

TME carries both.

• AMTECH NC-559-V2
• AMTECH ARMA223TF

Either one would do. Even the NC uses modified rosin, so it'll clean up easy enough (I've found the synthetic resin versions to be difficult to clean).

[psysc0rpi0n]

I think I'm going for the original stuff. Either RMA-223 or the NC-559 should be more than enough for me. I just need for small home made projects, so I don't need anything that much fancy. Probably NC-559 is a good choice. And even if I buy the RMA-223 I'll be ok too!

TME carries both.

• AMTECH NC-559-V2
• AMTECH ARMA223TF

Either one would do. Even the NC uses modified rosin, so it'll clean up easy enough (I've found the synthetic resin versions to be difficult to clean).

Don't they have the plastic bottle version of 100g? I already bought in TME my multmeter (Brymen 696s)

[nanofrog]

Don't they have the plastic bottle version of 100g? I already bought in TME my multmeter (Brymen 696s)

Not in an Amtech product as they don't offer flux in that format (no liquid products).

TME has stuff from AG TERMOPASTY in 15ml, 100ml, and 1L sizes (Polish company  previously mentioned). Of their products, it appears the TK 83 would be what you're after (RMA).

Another possibility would be MG Chemicals 835 (RA = rosin, activated; works better on oxidation and can still be left on the board). And it is available in the EU/UK at Circuit Specialists Europe for 5.95GBP.

[psysc0rpi0n]

Don't they have the plastic bottle version of 100g? I already bought in TME my multmeter (Brymen 696s)

Not in an Amtech product as they don't offer flux in that format (no liquid products).

TME has stuff from AG TERMOPASTY in 15ml, 100ml, and 1L sizes (Polish company  previously mentioned). Of their products, it appears the TK 83 would be what you're after (RMA).

Another possibility would be MG Chemicals 835 (RA = rosin, activated; works better on oxidation and can still be left on the board). And it is available in the EU/UK at Circuit Specialists Europe for 5.95GBP.

So, also this is a fake from Amtech in ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMTECH-Flux-solder-paste-SMT-BGA-PCB-IC-RMA-223-TPF-UV-Original-100g/201608327948

At that price, I tought it would be an original product.

I'm sorry but I'm still trying to understand which product best suits my needs. I'm looking for that product that helps the solder to stick to component leads and board pads and that also helps to clear "solder bridges" between components pins away. And I think that pasty stuff is better because it helps to hold (mainly smd components) in place before the 1st solder sticks to the component. With liquid flux, maybe that not that easy!

That MG Chemicals TK83 is a liquid product, right?

[psysc0rpi0n]

Tell me something please.
I have a shop near me that have both RMA-223 and NC559 at 6.51€ and 8.61€ respectively. Both 10cc seringe. Would these be original stuff or maybe also fakes? This is a quite reputable electronics shop in the area. I think their site has an English version if you guys want to check it.

NC559
http://www.mixtronica.com/ferramentas-medicao-quimicos-fluxos/15862-nc559-fluxo-em-pasta-10cc-nc559.html


RMA-223
http://www.mixtronica.com/ferramentas-medicao-quimicos-fluxos/15861-rma223-fluxo-em-pasta-10cc-rma223.html

Enviado do meu SM-G935F através do Tapatalk

[nanofrog]

So, also this is a fake from Amtech in ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMTECH-Flux-solder-paste-SMT-BGA-PCB-IC-RMA-223-TPF-UV-Original-100g/201608327948

At that price, I tought it would be an original product.

If it's coming from eBay, Banggood, aliexpress, dx, ... always assume it's a fake.

I'm sorry but I'm still trying to understand which product best suits my needs. I'm looking for that product that helps the solder to stick to component leads and board pads and that also helps to clear "solder bridges" between components pins away. And I think that pasty stuff is better because it helps to hold (mainly smd components) in place before the 1st solder sticks to the component. With liquid flux, maybe that not that easy!

There are multiple brands and products within brands that will do quite nicely. It's just a matter of getting something that's available to you (i.e. geolocation can be a real PITA).

There's also the need to realize there's not a one size fits all either. For example, liquid might work better in one situation, while a gel or paste flux better in another.

That MG Chemicals TK83 is a liquid product, right?

You've gotten your signals crossed a bit.

• MG Chemicals' product is 835 (RA)
• AG TERMOPASTY is TK 83 (RMA).

Both are liquid and available in your market.

Tell me something please.
I have a shop near me that have both RMA-223 and NC559 at 6.51€ and 8.61€ respectively. Both 10cc seringe. Would these be original stuff or maybe also fakes? This is a quite reputable electronics shop in the area. I think their site has an English version if you guys want to check it.

NC559
http://www.mixtronica.com/ferramentas-medicao-quimicos-fluxos/15862-nc559-fluxo-em-pasta-10cc-nc559.html


RMA-223
http://www.mixtronica.com/ferramentas-medicao-quimicos-fluxos/15861-rma223-fluxo-em-pasta-10cc-rma223.html

If you're confident in the shop, give it a try.

[psysc0rpi0n]

Ok, I'll buy those 2 from this shop near me.

I understand that each product might and will have different outcomes.

But I'm still having some trouble to acknowledge all this info. I mean there are so many terms for this matter that I'm getting a bit confused.

Terms like:
RMA
RA
NC
Paste
Gel
Resin
Rosin
Lead
Lead-free
Flux remover
Flux cleaner

Its being hard to me to organize each item in their correct terms. Anyway, I don't want or expect each term to be explained and associated to each product by you guys, but I need to have an idea how these all gets organized.

And yes, I mistyped that about MG Chems and the other brand.
So that MG Chems is a liquid product and it's categorised as a flux cleaner or what's the function of that product?

Enviado do meu SM-G935F através do Tapatalk

[sn4k3]

Tell me something please.
I have a shop near me that have both RMA-223 and NC559 at 6.51€ and 8.61€ respectively. Both 10cc seringe. Would these be original stuff or maybe also fakes? This is a quite reputable electronics shop in the area. I think their site has an English version if you guys want to check it.

NC559
http://www.mixtronica.com/ferramentas-medicao-quimicos-fluxos/15862-nc559-fluxo-em-pasta-10cc-nc559.html


RMA-223
http://www.mixtronica.com/ferramentas-medicao-quimicos-fluxos/15861-rma223-fluxo-em-pasta-10cc-rma223.html

Enviado do meu SM-G935F através do Tapatalk

For that price they are fake for sure, original thing cost more than that. No way they can adquire that for such low price, importing fees in portugal are 24%.
In portugal stores sell a lot of fakes as original products, i have cath some overtime, even reputable stores and if you contact them they will say you it's original.
Always look at references like TME, TME is huge millions of products and still amtech there is two times more expensive than on that portugal store. So is a big 
Also don't forget here (Portugal) they like to have big profit so what is the way? Sell original amtech and lose money OR sell fakes for a good profit? People who never used original amtech will not care or see the difference so they don't care either as long that work for them.

TME if you aquire 10pcs: 10+ 10.50 €, even 10pcs is expensiver, i think tme should start import from portugal that amtech

[sn4k3]

Terms like:
RMA: Rosin Mildly Activated Flux, RMA contains a small amount of additional activator to enhance cleaning and deoxidation leaving only a minimum ammount of inert residue behind. Shoud be cleaned
RA: Rosin Active, the RA flux will remove oxidation far more easily, good for old wires or old pcb full of oxidation, must be cleaned
NC: No clean, they can stay on board and not make any damage overtime (Still i recommend to clean that stuff) Good for BGA solder where you can't clean without proper machines
Paste: Soft solid, like the flux that come on the bottles.
Gel:Gel is mid term of liquid and solid, so it's a tacky liquid, most of the flux inside a tube to dispense are gel
Resin = Rosin: Rosin is the correct term in english, in portuguess is "Resina" https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resina and yes from the trees
Lead: The product contains lead
Lead-free = The product don't contain lead
Flux remover = Flux cleaner: A liquid product to clean and remove flux from board

Aslo read https://www.finishing.com/library/flux.html

Always read flux composition if they have one!

[exe]

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but let me tell what I really believe is important: flux is far less important than many people think (except some special cases like production line, bga rework, etc). You may get the best flux in the world, but it will barely help, if at all. I used to chase "the best flux", I have more than 10 of them, but I just the cheapest one because it simply does the job and has proven performance. I have 559TF, but I don't use it because it needs thorough cleaning (or proper activation, which is impossible with hand soldering).

[psysc0rpi0n]

Thanks once more for the explanations.

I'm going to order one of each syringes. RMA-223 and NC-559. I'm just not sure if I should buy the MG Chem 835 or if it is not needed! I will probably also buy a tip for my Ersa i-con Pico if they have!

[nanofrog]

FWIW, I use liquid nearly all the time, while paste flux only on rare occasion as I try and avoid BGA as much as possible.

[KL27x]

I'm just not sure if I should buy the MG Chem 835

This is what I use. I do a lot of soldering, and anything that is $10.00 a syringe would be significant expense. I can use 6-9mL of RA on a given day. If the flux is a significant expense to you, you will choose your flux like any other high quantity component... the way exe does. You'll find the cheapest stuff that works for what you are doing.

A lot of people are into gel flux, lately. Amtech 599, along with many/most other gel fluxes, are/were originally designed for BGA. The gel prevents the solvent from drying out as fast, so the flux will remain active for a longer duration during preheat and ramp up with hot air. Probably one reason why someone like Louis Rossman uses it on everything is because he works on multilayer leadfree boards using tiny iron tips at very high temps. This kind of flux can take more heat without burning and building up residue on the iron tip. But he cleans the boards, after, in an ultrasonic cleaner. If you don't want to clean the board, you generally ought to prefer a flux that dries out faster.

For lower temp work, 2 layer boards, and lead solder, you actually won't realize as much of the benefits of a gel flux. But OTOH, if you are like most hobbyists, a syringe might last you over a year, so the cost isn't a factor.

I wouldn't buy the 835, yet. The two syringes you bought are flux, and flux is flux. But if you find a need for larger quantity, the 835 is $25.00 a liter.

[psysc0rpi0n]

Yeah, I'll pass the 835 for now!

I'll buy the 2 other syringes for now from TME. They don't have  in stock the tip I want for my soldering station.

Thanks for the help on the fluxes!