Author Topic: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??  (Read 953691 times)

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Offline Biduleohm

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1375 on: October 31, 2014, 08:46:05 pm »
And still not a single case of a consumer grade product affected by this, it's been a week, someone should have encounter one by now.

In fact one member on my forum might have his product (Lumibox, a LED driver PWM controller) bricked.

It starts here (in french, sorry) http://aquaohm.xooit.eu/t1986-Rampe-LED-R-cifal-850-litres.htm?start=40#p31713 one day the product is OK, the next it's not recognised anymore (tested on 3 differents PC, tested another USB cable, etc.)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 09:11:55 pm by Biduleohm »
 

Offline nctnicoTopic starter

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1376 on: October 31, 2014, 08:47:50 pm »
Actually when they say bad publicity is good publicity they might be right, it might actually help them.

They been on the news stating they are going to ensure their drivers won't talk to clones.

It shows a potential client that, the device is good enough to be cloned and that after FTDI clamps down to use only genuine chips the client will feel confident they are using genuine chips.

And still not a single case of a consumer grade product affected by this, it's been a week, someone should have encounter one by now.
Probably because consumer goods use their own PID/VID which somehow are not affected. Somehow FTDI managed to shoot both their feet off by hitting the people they need to put their chips into actual designs the hardest :palm:
Then again if it is a consumer/consumeable device people just trash it and buy new. If one of my USB-to-serial cables stops working I'm not going to disect it; I just get a new one.
Actually I'm pretty sure one if Bayer is using it then lots of medical device mfgs are using it too and they probably have very tight control on the supply chain. With a custom VID/PID the device will only work with the provided customized drivers so these won't update unless the mfg itself updates them. So if that is the case then even if the hobbyists market evaporates medical devices move so slow it will be decades and probably never when they even being to consider other options. (Medical devices move so slow, so much RnD on the simple things, so much double/triple/quad checking, its great but it is slow)
There is life support medical and consumer medical. Consumer-medical isn't much beyond consumer grade equipment. Most of the low cost tele-healthcare medical devices like blood sugar and blood presure testers are made in China so the chance there is a FT232 compatible chip in there is very large (if it needs USB to UART and the designers choose for the FT232). The market for tele-healthcare devices is very competitive so every penny counts.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 11:30:22 pm by nctnico »
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Offline miguelvp

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1377 on: November 01, 2014, 12:59:11 am »
And still not a single case of a consumer grade product affected by this, it's been a week, someone should have encounter one by now.

In fact one member on my forum might have his product (Lumibox, a LED driver PWM controller) bricked.

It starts here (in french, sorry) http://aquaohm.xooit.eu/t1986-Rampe-LED-R-cifal-850-litres.htm?start=40#p31713 one day the product is OK, the next it's not recognised anymore (tested on 3 differents PC, tested another USB cable, etc.)

It's ok, I understand french, I'm not saying that it didn't affect people, but not the general consumer.

I don't know what the Arduino Nano 328 based Lumi-Box is, but it seems like it's targeted for people that are experimenting with micro controllers.

Nevermind I did find the Lumi-Box and it seems Arduino based:
http://lumi-box.net/boutique/lumi-box-v2/

What I was asking was for a consumer grade product, because those are the ones that probably can take legal action. Easier than someone that hangs on electronic forums that will know quick how to revert what FTDI did.

 

Offline Zeta

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1378 on: November 01, 2014, 02:17:13 am »
because it is not the *public at large* that designs their chips into products-- it is [in fact] people like me
doubtful

I'm not going to design their chips into my client's products anymore.  ... I would still be designing FTDI chips in-- I never would have started to look around for alternatives, and I never would have found the quite wonderful, low cost CP2104 from SiLabs, which does everything I needed the FTDI chip to do, but at 1/4 the price!
if you actually designed usb-serial chips into products you would have known the Silabs parts long ago. of course I'm talking about actual products not the arduino breakout boards people sell in the hundreds and because of that like to call themselves design Engineers.
 

Offline a210210200

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1379 on: November 01, 2014, 03:24:54 am »
And still not a single case of a consumer grade product affected by this, it's been a week, someone should have encounter one by now.

In fact one member on my forum might have his product (Lumibox, a LED driver PWM controller) bricked.

It starts here (in french, sorry) http://aquaohm.xooit.eu/t1986-Rampe-LED-R-cifal-850-litres.htm?start=40#p31713 one day the product is OK, the next it's not recognised anymore (tested on 3 differents PC, tested another USB cable, etc.)

Does it show up as an FT232R in the device manager on windows with no driver found error? If it doesn't enumerate (as in be detected not fully work) at all on multiple systems then something else is wrong.
 

Offline a210210200

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1380 on: November 01, 2014, 04:31:41 am »
Actually when they say bad publicity is good publicity they might be right, it might actually help them.

They been on the news stating they are going to ensure their drivers won't talk to clones.

It shows a potential client that, the device is good enough to be cloned and that after FTDI clamps down to use only genuine chips the client will feel confident they are using genuine chips.

And still not a single case of a consumer grade product affected by this, it's been a week, someone should have encounter one by now.
Probably because consumer goods use their own PID/VID which somehow are not affected. Somehow FTDI managed to shoot both their feet off by hitting the people they need to put their chips into actual designs the hardest :palm:
Then again if it is a consumer/consumeable device people just trash it and buy new. If one of my USB-to-serial cables stops working I'm not going to disect it; I just get a new one.
Actually I'm pretty sure one if Bayer is using it then lots of medical device mfgs are using it too and they probably have very tight control on the supply chain. With a custom VID/PID the device will only work with the provided customized drivers so these won't update unless the mfg itself updates them. So if that is the case then even if the hobbyists market evaporates medical devices move so slow it will be decades and probably never when they even being to consider other options. (Medical devices move so slow, so much RnD on the simple things, so much double/triple/quad checking, its great but it is slow)
There is life support medical and consumer medical. Consumer-medical isn't much beyond consumer grade equipment. Most of the low cost tele-healthcare medical devices like blood sugar and blood presure testers are made in China so the chance there is a FT232 compatible chip in there is very large (if it needs USB to UART and the designers choose for the FT232). The market for tele-healthcare devices is very competitive so every penny counts.

Attaching the word medical means a new world of QA/QC that you do not seem to understand. A 5cent disposable part under goes far more testing and QA than the same 5cent part in non-medical use.

Just because something is made in china does not automatically mean it contains fake parts and has no QA/QC. Last time I checked countless top quality firms use china.

A blood glucose meter is a medically critical type device people who do not have the ability to regulate or produce insulin need a blood glucose meter to tell them how their body is responding or for caretakers to know how to care for the patients. Those that can not easily communicate the early symptoms of hypoglycemia a hand held consumer medical meter is a critical tool for caretakers. I've torn down my meter and tested it against a draw 5ml blood test and it is well within spec even without calibrating it. Early detection and response tracking is what a glucose meter is for and it is very important that they work and report accurate results and no chances would be taken on risking it with fake chips.

A simple/free/cheap meter doesn't mean it is crap quality it is so cheap to get because people need it to cope with diabetes. I'm just paranoid so I measure my blood sugar level anyways but for others it is a choice between going blind or dying as not being able to measure your blood sugar can seriously compromise the management of diabetes.

The meters are certified for "In Vitro Diagnostic Use" and given that I worked at a place that was certified for implantable devices (which probably has the highest level of controls) and a much lower level of "not for diagnostic use, RnD only" which oddly followed basically the same standards I think your making some bold assumptions about consumer medical devices. (Standards exist in europe, us, ... that regulate these devices that provide critical diagnostic information)(Doctors use these meters too to evaluate patients in clinics/hospitals for quick measurements so a dependable device is not a light matter when your talking about prescribing drugs or providing medical advice based on the information the meter provides)

Sure a off label, china direct product with no certifications, no regulatory label, nothing at all, is certain to just be a toy. But real medical devices even consumer level ones have the proper controls even for instruments meant only for RnD that are not used to (strictly speaking) to diagnose or provide clinical information on patients.

You seem to misunderstand QA/QC is basically invisible to the end user and if it is working everything would be the same if by chance they got away with it. But QA/QC is meant to detect fakes, damaged/out of spec shipments, compliance with local and international standards, best practices, auditing, record keeping, .... (All things no one ever sees normally)
 
The moment you attach medical and I'm talking about real medical devices that have the appropriate labels and government approvals (which includes blood glucose meters) then they would not be affected.

And as a single point of reference I intentionally mangled my blood glucose meter's VID/PID to test against the evil driver and it is fine (Nor would it have been affected even if it was because its called defense in depth and they only use an old driver that they obviously qualified long ago with a custom signed driver with their own VID/PID combination). The package appears to be the real thing as well. To change something simple like a USB port on a device like this which technically isn't critical in my meter requires a lot of paperwork, approvals, testing. (And to the end user they won't notice a thing)

Plus they offer meters so cheap because they get you on the supplies (Like a printer). Test strips and lancets (also highly regulated) are constant ongoing costs.



 

Offline a210210200

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1381 on: November 01, 2014, 04:44:42 am »
@a210210200:
You know, not once have I ever mentioned your online "handle" when accusing the FTDI "fixer" of hiring "shills" to inundate this forum with false propaganda and diversions from the real truth about FTDI's driver that contains a trojan malware.  Yet, every time I did broach this subject, for some reason you felt the need to chime in, and proudly declare that you were not such person.  So, since I didn't ever name names, why did you feel the need to defend yourself every time I did this?

Ok you didn't mention my handle but do you know what a pronoun means. Read below its a good example of how to follow pronouns in referencing nouns (in this case a user's handle)


[My TLDR response to you goes here] Followed by you saying the pronoun shown below.


You are obviously a "shill" for FTDI.  AND, you are *WRONG*.  Your use of the phrase "faking the VID/PID" shows a lack of understanding in how USB works.  There are many other signatures that an O/S can use to determine what the device is-- not just the VID/PID, and your [FTDI's] MALWARE driver proves this-- as it has no problem identifying a chip that was not made by FTDI.


It is pretty unambiguous who you were replying to because you replied to me directly.

I don't think I need to even respond to anything else other than pointing out that you just demonstrably lied outright under the assumption no one reading your post (including me) would bother to verify your claim.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 05:36:50 am by a210210200 »
 

Offline osmosis321

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1382 on: November 01, 2014, 06:08:25 am »
Aww Rufus?  You're still here trolling?  SMH...

My story is, I don't know if my chips are genuine or not.

I bought them from a legit source, and paid the $8-9 they normally cost.  But I still can't tell if they're genuine or not, because I don't have access to their supplier's supply chain data.  All it takes is for one person to screw up.  I've had some trouble getting them to work, and when I looked into it, there's at least one device with a PID of 0x000.  PID 0x0000 also happens to occur when there's a comm error, so how's a brother to know?

I installed Ubuntu on my main machine JUST TO CHECK IT OUT.  At this point I've already lost a dozen hours or more.  Ubuntu reports that the chip is ok, and I'm likely having some other problem.  I asked FTDI how I can tell if they're fakes, and they told me that they're working on a detection tool, supposed to be released any day now.  So I wait..

They're probably genuine, and I STILL lost all this time/money.  I did my due diligence and still I'm stuck waiting for FTDI to release it's detection tool.  If I were a big company, this would literally have cost me tens of thousands of dollars through no fault of my own.

Rufus, bite me.  FTDI did the wrong thing.  Even if I have the real deal, it still sucks ass.  You call is bluster, but it's not:  I don't trust FTDI anymore and will go FAR out of my way not to design them into future products.  That's not bluster, that's pragmatism.
 

Offline a210210200

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1383 on: November 01, 2014, 06:33:25 am »
Aww Rufus?  You're still here trolling?  SMH...

My story is, I don't know if my chips are genuine or not.

I bought them from a legit source, and paid the $8-9 they normally cost.  But I still can't tell if they're genuine or not, because I don't have access to their supplier's supply chain data.  All it takes is for one person to screw up.  I've had some trouble getting them to work, and when I looked into it, there's at least one device with a PID of 0x000.  PID 0x0000 also happens to occur when there's a comm error, so how's a brother to know?

I installed Ubuntu on my main machine JUST TO CHECK IT OUT.  At this point I've already lost a dozen hours or more.  Ubuntu reports that the chip is ok, and I'm likely having some other problem.  I asked FTDI how I can tell if they're fakes, and they told me that they're working on a detection tool, supposed to be released any day now.  So I wait..

They're probably genuine, and I STILL lost all this time/money.  I did my due diligence and still I'm stuck waiting for FTDI to release it's detection tool.  If I were a big company, this would literally have cost me tens of thousands of dollars through no fault of my own.

Rufus, bite me.  FTDI did the wrong thing.  Even if I have the real deal, it still sucks ass.  You call is bluster, but it's not:  I don't trust FTDI anymore and will go FAR out of my way not to design them into future products.  That's not bluster, that's pragmatism.

For fake detection visually, (Outer package can be used as it looks different than the real thing)

https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/562/FTDI--Chip-FT232RL-Chips.html

VID 0000 and PID 0000 is an indication of a communication error (edit: which is unrelated to the PID modification the driver can do). And many parameters will also be blank.

FTDI did screw up big time, why not release a tool to let at least authorized distributors check and better yet anyone. My SSD has a check genuine button and I highly doubt someone is going to be able to fake a SSD easily that can trick a very vertically integrated SSD like samsungs.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1384 on: November 01, 2014, 08:32:30 am »
Here is a real live example of the problem that FTDI now faces. I wish to purchase a GPS module for a project and I have two choices, the cheapest unit includes in the manual the instruction "download the latest USB driver from www.ftdichip.com/FTDrivers.htm". A slightly more expensive device uses a driver specifically written for the module concerned.

I have purchased the more expensive product, the FTDI brand is now poisoned.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 08:34:30 am by German_EE »
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Offline Rufus

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1385 on: November 01, 2014, 03:10:03 pm »
Here is a real live example of the problem that FTDI now faces. I wish to purchase a GPS module for a project and I have two choices, the cheapest unit includes in the manual the instruction "download the latest USB driver from www.ftdichip.com/FTDrivers.htm". A slightly more expensive device uses a driver specifically written for the module concerned.

I have purchased the more expensive product, the FTDI brand is now poisoned.
The opposite is true. How long do you think a GPS module which immediately bricks itself and gets returned for refund is going to remain on the market? Probably already and certainly in the future something which claims to use an FTDI chip will very likely have a genuine FTDI chip while things that don't are more likely to have a fake or clone chip of unknown quality and origin.

I am now even more likely to choose a device using an FTDI chip because I will take it as an indication of quality - as it ever was.
 

Offline MicroBoy

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1386 on: November 01, 2014, 03:42:13 pm »
Here is a real live example of the problem that FTDI now faces. I wish to purchase a GPS module for a project and I have two choices, the cheapest unit includes in the manual the instruction "download the latest USB driver from www.ftdichip.com/FTDrivers.htm". A slightly more expensive device uses a driver specifically written for the module concerned.

I have purchased the more expensive product, the FTDI brand is now poisoned.
The opposite is true. How long do you think a GPS module which immediately bricks itself and gets returned for refund is going to remain on the market? Probably already and certainly in the future something which claims to use an FTDI chip will very likely have a genuine FTDI chip while things that don't are more likely to have a fake or clone chip of unknown quality and origin.

I am now even more likely to choose a device using an FTDI chip because I will take it as an indication of quality - as it ever was.

Good luck with that... That has to be the more twisted thinking i've seen so far in this Topic.

You're not understanding that as long as margins allow counterfeiters to emulate a chip and win some money, they will just get better at emulating the original chip behaviour, even the glitches of it (like the one used in the current attack). At the end it will be almost impossible to detect a counterfeit from an original, even for FTDI itself. FTDI could launch a new model with security added, but they must mantain support for all the current models, which lack of it and will be always target of counterfeiters.

As simple as i see it is, i think, as simple as (almost all) people see it: you just can't buy or design nothing with a FTDI device on it. As simple as that.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 03:46:36 pm by MicroBoy »
 

Offline nctnicoTopic starter

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1387 on: November 01, 2014, 03:44:01 pm »
Here is a real live example of the problem that FTDI now faces. I wish to purchase a GPS module for a project and I have two choices, the cheapest unit includes in the manual the instruction "download the latest USB driver from www.ftdichip.com/FTDrivers.htm". A slightly more expensive device uses a driver specifically written for the module concerned.

I have purchased the more expensive product, the FTDI brand is now poisoned.
The opposite is true. How long do you think a GPS module which immediately bricks itself and gets returned for refund is going to remain on the market? Probably already and certainly in the future something which claims to use an FTDI chip will very likely have a genuine FTDI chip while things that don't are more likely to have a fake or clone chip of unknown quality and origin.

I am now even more likely to choose a device using an FTDI chip because I will take it as an indication of quality - as it ever was.
In an ideal world maybe. The functional equivalent chips which are rolling of the production line as we type are already resillient against FTDI's bricking algorithme so now FTDI has to devise another way to make their driver not wanting to talk to functional equivalents. This cycle will repeat until the FTDI drivers will produce false positives for  devices with genuine FTDI chips inside. Do you want to take that risk? FTDI has proven to willingly move into grey areas so their algorithms to detect functional equivalents will probably be geared towards 'fake when in doubt' instead of the other way around.
As long as there is money to be made there will be functional equivalents.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1388 on: November 01, 2014, 03:57:44 pm »
Just gotta love the logic here...  A==B, B==C, therefore Z==42....   :palm:

It is the apparent inability of various posters here to identify causes and effects and make reasoned logical argument that has kept me picking away at this thread. I haven't been affected by the issue. I don't particularly care about FTDI. I just argue with people talking shit.

As simple as i see it is, i think, as simple as (almost all) people see it: you just can't buy or design nothing with a FTDI device on it. As simple as that.

So when you ship product built with fake crap of unknown quality and origin you would rather there was less risk of the customer finding out. Thanks for confirming that and that I should continue to consider use of FTDI chips as an indication of quality.

This cycle will repeat until the FTDI drivers will produce false positives for  devices with genuine FTDI chips inside. Do you want to take that risk?

Another grapsing at straws FTDI are going to brick their own product claim and yes I would prefer to buy product from a supplier with enough confidence in their quality control to take that risk.
 

Offline MicroBoy

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1389 on: November 01, 2014, 04:33:15 pm »
As simple as i see it is, i think, as simple as (almost all) people see it: you just can't buy or design nothing with a FTDI device on it. As simple as that.

So when you ship product built with fake crap of unknown quality and origin you would rather there was less risk of the customer finding out. Thanks for confirming that and that I should continue to consider use of FTDI chips as an indication of quality.

If there are FTDI counterfeit chips in the world (and there are), and we should blame someone, that would be FTDI:

* Their products have been always more expensive that others similar. This allowed counterfeiters the luxury of designing a counterfeit part based in a microcontroller;
* Zero security. Even the counterfeit parts look sharper and with better laser printing.
 
I'm not in favour of conterfeiting. I create IP too and would hate to see it stolen. But i know in what world were're living, so i make just the opossite as FTDI: my profit margin is moderate to discourage conterfeits, and my designs are heavily loaded with security measures. If they get counterfeited, i would hate it, as i said, but I WOULD NEVER TAKE IT AGAINST MY CUSTOMERS. NEVER. I could never do that. I know doing it would be the perfect recipe for company suicide (as Dave said in his video).
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 04:36:32 pm by MicroBoy »
 

Offline Biduleohm

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1390 on: November 01, 2014, 06:24:33 pm »
It's ok, I understand french, I'm not saying that it didn't affect people, but not the general consumer.

I don't know what the Arduino Nano 328 based Lumi-Box is, but it seems like it's targeted for people that are experimenting with micro controllers.

Nevermind I did find the Lumi-Box and it seems Arduino based:
http://lumi-box.net/boutique/lumi-box-v2/

What I was asking was for a consumer grade product, because those are the ones that probably can take legal action. Easier than someone that hangs on electronic forums that will know quick how to revert what FTDI did.
That is the (new) version 2. The standard lumibox is a standalone general consumer product. IMHO the majority of the consumers doesn't know why their products doesn't work anymore and just buy another, I think it's why we don't see more complain from the general public.


Does it show up as an FT232R in the device manager on windows with no driver found error? If it doesn't enumerate (as in be detected not fully work) at all on multiple systems then something else is wrong.
It does enumerate but it's not recognised by the lumibox software anymore.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 07:16:20 pm by Biduleohm »
 

Offline rob77

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1391 on: November 01, 2014, 07:09:21 pm »
It's ok, I understand french, I'm not saying that it didn't affect people, but not the general consumer.

I don't know what the Arduino Nano 328 based Lumi-Box is, but it seems like it's targeted for people that are experimenting with micro controllers.

Nevermind I did find the Lumi-Box and it seems Arduino based:
http://lumi-box.net/boutique/lumi-box-v2/

What I was asking was for a consumer grade product, because those are the ones that probably can take legal action. Easier than someone that hangs on electronic forums that will know quick how to revert what FTDI did.


sorry for the quite off-topic post, but are those really metal can transistors and a socket-ed through-hole DIP8 in that lumibox thingy which is supposed to be a recent design ?
 

Offline Biduleohm

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1392 on: November 01, 2014, 07:18:34 pm »
Yeah :) so what? you don't have to use SMD everywhere just because the majority of the constructors do that...
 

Offline rob77

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1393 on: November 01, 2014, 07:56:50 pm »
Yeah :) so what? you don't have to use SMD everywhere just because the majority of the constructors do that...

of course you can use THT, but costs are going rocket high with THT in mass production....and not talking about the metal can transistors - anything metal can is at least 5-10x more expensive than the equivalent part in a plastic case.

but back to the FTDI topic - that lumibox thing is not a correct example of an affected product - that thingy is using a arduino nano board and apparently a cheap clone of a nano with fake FTDI ;) if they would have used genuine nano boards (i know... it would be a financial suicide) then it would have not been affected.
 

Offline Biduleohm

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1394 on: November 01, 2014, 08:25:43 pm »
Yeah, but in this case it's not mass producted. It's only produced at the customers demand  -> "Fabrication à la demande. Délai de fabrication : 72h."

I don't know if they use the fake part knowingly or not. I just replied to the "not a single case of a consumer grade product affected" statement.
 

Offline medical-nerd

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1395 on: November 01, 2014, 09:42:17 pm »
Hiya folks - first post on forum ever so try to be gentle!!

I would like to give a perspective as an end user.

I have an interest in electronics - hobbyist level and some experience in computers but don't have an operational linux system at the moment - changing distros and hardware and lost my USB sticks again....!!

I don't understand the comments that if something is broken then the user is less than useless if they don't do a google search to see what the problem may be.

My interest is usb-serial devices and an arduino board.
The usb-serial are used for installing/debugging linux and solaris on my sunfire v490 and DL485 servers that I'm playing with.
I also have started to use an arduino mega board. I have absolutely no idea if my items contain clones and would never have suspected this until I followed the Hackaday link to this forum.

I have now read up to 80 pages here regarding this with considerable interest.

If I developed a problem - I would have suspected a configuration problem with the computers and terminal software used and would have spent many hours trying to sort this out - I did initially to get the damn things talking with numerous problems getting the drivers to actually work and software configs.

SO - if a device silently stops working because it has been bricked - the user will naturally concentrate on problems with the items being connected - NOT the connection hardware that has been working previously.

A bricked device completely buggers up a normal end user.

Now - what is important to me as an end user - I don't want to risk my paid for hardware being tampered with, I certainly don't want to waste time correcting such a change. I want to enjoy my hobby.

So since becoming aware of this problem I have not connected the devices to any of my computers until I know that it will be safe. When will we know that an updated driver is available that will not potentially brick devices - that is my personal concern.

Cheers to everyone.  :)
'better to burn out than fade away'
 

Offline ozwolf

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1396 on: November 01, 2014, 10:23:19 pm »
@medical-nerd.  Welcome to the forum!

I'm pleased to read your comments as you speak from the end-user point of view.  This is the view that FTDI ignored, and their business will suffer.

Stick with the forum, there is heaps to learn here!!

Ozwolf
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1397 on: November 01, 2014, 10:25:02 pm »
I would like to give a perspective as an end user.
I have an interest in electronics - hobbyist level and some experience in computers...
I don't understand the comments that if something is broken then the user is less than useless if they don't do a google search to see what the problem may be.

That is NOT the "perspective as an end user".  You are looking at it from the perspective of a hobbyist experimenter.  Granted most people in these forums are hobbyist experimenters, but there are also people out there making commercial products with FTDI chips in them.

If you developed some specialist niche product for sale and had hundreds or thousands of them out there for some vertical market (stamp collectors, or people who make quilts, or whatever) your customers quite possibly have little or no experience with computers beyond using them as a magical appliance.

Now, if their computer got automatically updated (because automatic updates are recommended to protect them against malware) and the new FTDI driver turns out to be malware and bricks their device (because you were unlucky enough to unknowningly use a counterfeit chip), all they know is that their gadget stopped working. They don't have a clue that there is something in there called FTDI (real or counterfeit) and they wouldn't even know that there was anything to Google for or that they could possibly fix it.  And even if they DID do all that, the "fix" is very fiddly and not end-user friendly.

People here seem to live in a world of their own little workbench and never consider that some people develop products for sale to end-users who are NOT computer experts, and never will be.  And we have seen accounts of people ending up with counterfeit chips even when acquired through "official" channels.  Nothing is certain in life but death and taxes.  Getting a genuine chip (of any brand or model) 100% of the time is a foolish pipe-dream.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1398 on: November 01, 2014, 10:58:09 pm »
...have hired PR firms [that hire others] to attempt to hijack this thread

Is this a known fact or at in foil conspiracy?
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232??
« Reply #1399 on: November 01, 2014, 11:06:26 pm »
...have hired PR firms [that hire others] to attempt to hijack this thread

Is this a known fact or a tin foil conspiracy? (edit: fixed it for you, took me a while to make sense of it)

I don't know about others but I'm expecting my FTDI check any day now  :-DD
 


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