Genuine vs fake Hakko solder tip comparison

[neslekkim]

01. Plastic Container.jpg
To be honest, if the fake one was using the same color background pattern, I think it will be quite difficult to tell. Plastic materials are practically identical.

I have bought lot of hakko tips on ebay, all came with same packaging, and same background as your genuine one, blue/purple color.

Only two of ten tips have correct engraving on the tip, all the others are engraved as your second one.
But, i found something interresting about the packaging, the two that looks correct, the color on the packaging smears off if you use an alcohol swab, 7 of the 8 "fakes" does not smear at all, but one of them do.

And, oriiginal or not, the one that came with my fx888d is not shiny at all on the inside, but it is engraved as your genuine one.
also, one of the "fakes" are very shiny on the inside.. I wonder if one polish them, if they actually do shine up?, atleast, since the original one that came with the station, since it's not shiny, but it should be???

All of these tips that was packed in hakko wrapping, is btw sentered, no misalignment on the hole for the heater.

[saturation]

Overall you needn't read the documents, just know that's all the extra stuff you get when you pay >5x higher cost vs a clone  Hakko tip.

I use the dry brass coil.  I don't know if it truly is better, but I use the sponge for decades but not with a Hakko iron, a Weller;  Weller tips would last a few years and since I didn't solder that much, just for prototypes, I presume sponges contributed to the wear or Weller tips aren't made as well; the Hakko is easily going on 5 years, and I don't use the sponge as the literature says its less stressful on the tip to use the brass coil; also brass coils are ready to use no water needed to use it, so its faster too and less maintenance.

Thanks for the link, impressive documents, this might take a while for me as average Joe to digest these metallurgy, high temp metal chemistry, thermodynamic, mechanical engineering, manufacturing technique and etc, damn, tons of topics involved in there.   

...............[ mine are doing very well over 5 years old and still with barely any wear]........

Just curious what are you using for tip handling/cleaner in normal soldering usage ?

Same here on my tip's wear, and I think its almost 4 years now since I switched from water wetted sponge tip cleaner to dry coil wires Hakko 599B, and once in a while when black roasted flux residues started to grow at the tip, a single dip in the grey paste Hakko tip cleaner and wipe it clean at the coil wires simply turns the tip like like new again.

Although not intensively monitored, I reckoned when using dry tip cleaner is somehow decelerate tip's wear better than using wet sponge, whats your experience ?

[T4P]

Just be careful with using real heaters with fake stations, most are designed for thermocouple sensors and not PTC sensors in the original 936s (go bonkers or maybe not even work at all)

Of course, my 936 was made probably nearby your neighborhood. 

While ago visited a cheap electronic service shop and had experienced Atten, Quick and "Huakko"  936 clone, it feels like using fake semiconductor in your circuit.

I don't live in china ya' know  Quick aren't cheap clones, they're actually decent quality.
Huakko is the worst of the lot actually yes they are no competition to the real stuff but some get really close. My 2nd 936 has a thermal recovery profile closer to a FX-888

Overall you needn't read the documents, just know that's all the extra stuff you get when you pay >5x higher cost vs a clone  Hakko tip.

I use the dry brass coil.  I don't know if it truly is better, but I use the sponge for decades but not with a Hakko iron, a Weller;  Weller tips would last a few years and since I didn't solder that much, just for prototypes, I presume sponges contributed to the wear or Weller tips aren't made as well; the Hakko is easily going on 5 years, and I don't use the sponge as the literature says its less stressful on the tip to use the brass coil; also brass coils are ready to use no water needed to use it, so its faster too and less maintenance.

Less thermal shock for tips and faster recovery time (i.e none) but it is hard to clean but most of the time you just throw it away into the bin. Who gives a shit? 
Be careful of the ones that are flux-coated. I had one and it was a disaster == It did clean but it dirtied my tip constantly
And yes weller tips have short lifes and the tips i use are still Hakko original tips, those carbon deposits should be cleaned off using a fine grit dry/wet sandpaper
They keep accumulating on my tips 

[saturation]

Yes, no sponge avoids thermal shock. 

I have the original Hakko brass coil and find it keeps the tips super shiny and clean; I think it does have flux on it, maybe the key issue is how much flux.

Its best not to use any kind of abrasives on the tip, being unclean looking is not an issue if the tip works well.  Abrasives can erode the already thin protective coat, that's what the brass coil was supposed to provide: a safe buffing surface to avoid injuring the tip coatings.

Overall you needn't read the documents, just know that's all the extra stuff you get when you pay >5x higher cost vs a clone  Hakko tip.

I use the dry brass coil.  I don't know if it truly is better, but I use the sponge for decades but not with a Hakko iron, a Weller;  Weller tips would last a few years and since I didn't solder that much, just for prototypes, I presume sponges contributed to the wear or Weller tips aren't made as well; the Hakko is easily going on 5 years, and I don't use the sponge as the literature says its less stressful on the tip to use the brass coil; also brass coils are ready to use no water needed to use it, so its faster too and less maintenance.

Less thermal shock for tips and faster recovery time (i.e none) but it is hard to clean but most of the time you just throw it away into the bin. Who gives a shit? 
Be careful of the ones that are flux-coated. I had one and it was a disaster == It did clean but it dirtied my tip constantly
And yes weller tips have short lifes and the tips i use are still Hakko original tips, those carbon deposits should be cleaned off using a fine grit dry/wet sandpaper
They keep accumulating on my tips 

[Psi]

Maybe Aoyue spare parts fit:

Unfortunately not, i've got an Aoyue and they're a different thread.

I plan to try the Hakko equivalent part when my FX888 arrives but i'm pretty sure it's different too.

Yay, my FX888 arrived and the part fits on my old iron perfectly.
I just when to tradetech and bough a new FX888 part for $10. Now i have 3 working irons.

[carpelux]

Just for information, the swedish distributor Elfa Distrelec has a big sellout on hakko original tips on their webshop right now. About 85% rebate om some items. All prices is in Swedish crowns SKR. 1$ equals approx 6.5 SKR.

https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~se_en/elfa/init.do?sq=hakko&cat=0 

[gmaslin]

For those of you that have genuine Hakko irons and bits, how much play is there when you slip the bit on? I just picked up a Hakko Chinese clone and noted the relatively loose fit of the bit on the iron with a Hakko genuine bit. Does anyone know the internal hole spec of a genuine Hakko bit or clone bit? Also, how much does the metal of the Hakko bit expand under heat and is there any difference in metal between the genuine and the clone bit?

[gmaslin]

Excellent information on the bits. It makes me glad I registered and asked. The only thing I could have wished for is more information on the tip fit in practice. I got a laser light ruler (projected) report of 3.96-3.98mm on a sample of 6 clone bits. If they are drilled SAE, my guess is that this is the tolerance of a 5/32" hole. If they were cut metric at 4mm, I doubt they would be undercut that much. From what I have been reading, ceramic doesn't really expand so the bit may be designed to fit a little loose cold and expand tight with heat. Obviously, too much air will slow heat up time so it would be good to calculate the air gap. Would you please measure the heating ceramic circumference?

[johansen]

tight fit doesn't matter much when its all T^4 thermal radiation transfer.
take the tip off and watch it glow red/orange in air.. think its any cooler in side the tip?

anyways the cheap tips aren't worth buying.
I have access to a lathe, if anyone wants solid copper tips i could make money selling them for 1$ each.
just need to figure out how to nickel plate them. sure, they will corrode and you'd better take them off the ceramic element every 20 hours to make sure it doesn't stick to it.

[gmaslin]

I'm not saying it won't get to temp but it won't be as responsive with all that air. It could be that the air is there by design that's why I'm asking about the fit. When I put the bit on my iron (before I lock it down with the bezel), it spins freely and feels like 0.5mm of air on the sides. Just trying to gauge what's normal so anyone that's ever changed a bit on their iron should chime in.

[johansen]

short answer is the thermal capacity of that thin ceramic tube is negligible. and so is the heat conduction through the .01" of free space.

[nukie]

Hi all, I use various real and fake tips with damp sponge for more than 10 years they are all still in operation today. I am quite a heavy user i go through roughly 500 grams solder every 3 years.

It's not just nickel plate, it has to be Iron plated which is the most important layer of all to prevent copper tip from dissolving. Iron plating seems rare at least in developed countries. I know a few in India and China.

[SeanB]

I use a cheap iron and a nice Weller, and the tips always get put on using a thin coating of anti sieze compound, mostly a copper based one. That way when you want to change one in a few years it will come off. Will smoke for the first few minutes when fresh, but just place in a window with the holder till the smoke clears. After that it is a dry powder and still does the job.

[AlxDroidDev]

I found this side-by-side comparision photos of fake vs. genuine FX-888D:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByYSbmc9YE-cY0lCanJQM1RGclU&usp=drive_web

I was worried that the FX-888D that I bought on the last "Black Friday" could be a fake unit. It arrived today and all evidences tell me it is a genuine unit.

[saturation]

Thanks for photos, can be hard to tell at first glance without side by side comparison. 

Most importantly is the heating signature during startup and under load, which you can't know or test unless you have one.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hakko-fx-888-soldering-station-discontinued/30/

[Sjokolade]

I found this side-by-side comparision photos of fake vs. genuine FX-888D:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByYSbmc9YE-cY0lCanJQM1RGclU&usp=drive_web

I was worried that the FX-888D that I bought on the last "Black Friday" could be a fake unit. It arrived today and all evidences tell me it is a genuine unit.

That side by side comparison is not correct, the FH-800 iron holder got its grounding marks and the projections for grounding terminal 3 years ago so there is at least 2 different FH-800 iron holders.

I did upload a picture of mine holder in the orginal thread - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/fake-hakko-fx-888d-vs-genuine-photo-comparison-short-video/msg565208/#msg565208

[AlxDroidDev]

That side by side comparison is not correct, the FH-800 iron holder got its grounding marks and the projections for grounding terminal 3 years ago so there is at least 2 different FH-800 iron holders.

Hardly a unit being sold as new will have those marks.

Besides, since the FX-888D was released on December 2012 (thus almost exactly 3 years), chances are they were already released with the new version of the FH-800, with the grounding marks, from the very first batch.

[Sjokolade]

Yes, some FX-888D was not sold with the new updated FH-800 iron holder - just like in my link.

[neslekkim]

my 888d does not have those marks either, bought january 2013. It also looks like the one marked as fake, black inside the bottom.
Don't use it anymore, but remember that the handle didn't sit too well in it, and yes, it is an original, atleast sold so by the official hakko supplier in Norway

[YU2]

10 pieces that come in a small kind of a hard material clear plastic bag, very good overall quality, thick nickel padding, nice thug fit to original hakko heater and good thermal conductivity. Better than other chinese tips I have tried.

Bought mine on ebay, cant find link there now but here is how that bag looks (mine where different types): http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-lot-Free-Shipping-HAKKO-900-Series-Welding-Eletrical-Hand-Tool-Soldering-Iron-Tips-900M-T/1394624085.html

[vindicator]

I bought my station 7 years ago and my purchase order from omnitronelectronics says it's VTSS20U, but the manual says ZD-929C.
Omni search doesn't show VTSS20U, and shows 2 pages for the same ZD model:
1) http://www.omnitronelectronics.net/phpstore/html/ZD-929C-ESD-SOLDERING-STATION-DIGITAL-READOUT-1251.html
    Searching for the tips (ZDT-929N1) on the site results in nothing.
2) http://www.omnitronelectronics.net/phpstore/html/ZD-929C-ESD-SOLDERING-STATION-1478.html
    Searching for the tips (N1-16) CAN be found, but $15 shipping seems a "tad" high for replacement tips.

Contacting omni through their site resulted in NO communication.

I then contacted Velleman to see if they could offer any information on compatible tips, but the communication, while there, was pretty bad.
I gave him an image to the station I have which is close to the 20U, but with a digital display and black.
His reply was simply offering the ZDT tips I showed above which are non-existent on omni's site. That made it clear this was going to go nowhere. I ended up thanking him for at least contacting me, but it was of no help. I also explained what my issue was with his help and that it seemed like he was pulled of the street for a sales position with a catalog placed in front of him and no knowledge of competitors or the field.

In another reply, I linked him a picture of the 20U Velleman station, but under a Duratool name (ZD-929B). It seems clear something is wrong somewhere. Like these are all "cheap" knockoffs of each other and rebranded under different manufacturer names or something (you'd think the tips would be compatible across them all).
I also had a live-chat with a Hakko rep today on their site which resulted in nearly the same type of conversation.
My frame of mind is that you want to know your competitors and maybe offer compatible tips (expand your reach) for those looking for quality or price (akin to inkjet printer cartridges).

I will be the first to say I'm something of a newb. Even though I've had the station for 7 years, my soldering needs are pretty rare. The most recent thing I tried to do was desolder a bridge-rectifier from my failed induction cooktop, but the solder didn't budge at all (even at nearly 500C (yes C)). It was so hot, I could hear a cracking sound coming from somewhere.

I don't think I ever tinned my tip and now the solder just slips off the tip. I can even roll the tip around a fallen ball of molten solder and it behaves like oil and water. There is no coating of solder at all, even at just above melting point. I'll even turn off my station and roll around the ball as the temperature drops and it still never coats.
I even bought a tip activator/tinner, but that didn't help. I didn't want to use my grinder, though did try using the plumbing sandpaper I have on hand because of warnings I have read.

An interesting difference in my tip vs those I see elsewhere (like on ebay) is mine has some gritty coating like I'd see on galvanized screws/nails (http://www.kitsusa.net/phpstore/images/products/large_1398_N1-L280.jpg) (oh, yes, omnielectronics also goes by the name kitsusa. Omni is also where I bought most of my stuff when starting out like a breadboard kit and circuit introduction book).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Duratool-Soldering-Tip-1mm-D01845-N22-1-/121634485254?hash=item1c51faf406:g:SjAAAOSwvgdW2coY

And then you have some strange tips that appear to have a solid core: http://www.ebay.com/itm/40W-Soldering-Iron-Tip-Solder-Rework-Station-Tool-65mm-Long-2pcs-/321915597521?hash=item4af3aa32d1:g:4JsAAOSwoBtW6SVb

The only thing I can guesstimate is the tip shaft is 65mm and maybe the tip is 4mm for a 40w (48W) station.
The tip that came with the station has a filler piece of metal to make a snug fit to the heating element (I assume that is typical).

Is there any guidance/insight someone can offer to my plight?

[Rasz]

I bought my station 7 years ago and my purchase order from omnitronelectronics says it's VTSS20U, but the manual says ZD-929C.
Omni search doesn't show VTSS20U, and shows 2 pages for the same ZD model:
1) http://www.omnitronelectronics.net/phpstore/html/ZD-929C-ESD-SOLDERING-STATION-DIGITAL-READOUT-1251.html
    Searching for the tips (ZDT-929N1) on the site results in nothing.
2) http://www.omnitronelectronics.net/phpstore/html/ZD-929C-ESD-SOLDERING-STATION-1478.html
    Searching for the tips (N1-16) CAN be found, but $15 shipping seems a "tad" high for replacement tips.

Contacting omni through their site resulted in NO communication.

I then contacted Velleman to see if they could offer any information on compatible tips, but the communication, while there, was pretty bad.
I gave him an image to the station I have which is close to the 20U, but with a digital display and black.
His reply was simply offering the ZDT tips I showed above which are non-existent on omni's site. That made it clear this was going to go nowhere. I ended up thanking him for at least contacting me, but it was of no help. I also explained what my issue was with his help and that it seemed like he was pulled of the street for a sales position with a catalog placed in front of him and no knowledge of competitors or the field.

In another reply, I linked him a picture of the 20U Velleman station, but under a Duratool name (ZD-929B). It seems clear something is wrong somewhere. Like these are all "cheap" knockoffs of each other and rebranded under different manufacturer names or something (you'd think the tips would be compatible across them all).
I also had a live-chat with a Hakko rep today on their site which resulted in nearly the same type of conversation.
My frame of mind is that you want to know your competitors and maybe offer compatible tips (expand your reach) for those looking for quality or price (akin to inkjet printer cartridges).

I will be the first to say I'm something of a newb. Even though I've had the station for 7 years, my soldering needs are pretty rare. The most recent thing I tried to do was desolder a bridge-rectifier from my failed induction cooktop, but the solder didn't budge at all (even at nearly 500C (yes C)). It was so hot, I could hear a cracking sound coming from somewhere.

I don't think I ever tinned my tip and now the solder just slips off the tip. I can even roll the tip around a fallen ball of molten solder and it behaves like oil and water. There is no coating of solder at all, even at just above melting point. I'll even turn off my station and roll around the ball as the temperature drops and it still never coats.
I even bought a tip activator/tinner, but that didn't help. I didn't want to use my grinder, though did try using the plumbing sandpaper I have on hand because of warnings I have read.

An interesting difference in my tip vs those I see elsewhere (like on ebay) is mine has some gritty coating like I'd see on galvanized screws/nails (http://www.kitsusa.net/phpstore/images/products/large_1398_N1-L280.jpg) (oh, yes, omnielectronics also goes by the name kitsusa. Omni is also where I bought most of my stuff when starting out like a breadboard kit and circuit introduction book).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Duratool-Soldering-Tip-1mm-D01845-N22-1-/121634485254?hash=item1c51faf406:g:SjAAAOSwvgdW2coY

And then you have some strange tips that appear to have a solid core: http://www.ebay.com/itm/40W-Soldering-Iron-Tip-Solder-Rework-Station-Tool-65mm-Long-2pcs-/321915597521?hash=item4af3aa32d1:g:4JsAAOSwoBtW6SVb

The only thing I can guesstimate is the tip shaft is 65mm and maybe the tip is 4mm for a 40w (48W) station.
The tip that came with the station has a filler piece of metal to make a snug fit to the heating element (I assume that is typical).

Is there any guidance/insight someone can offer to my plight?

tldr I went to Mercedes dealer and ranted about their sales rep not knowing anything about Fiat parts ...
edit: actually: I went to Mercedes dealer and ranted about their sales rep not knowing anything about TATA counterfeit of QQ counterfeit of Fiat parts ...

your station is a shitty clone of Elenco SL-30A clone  of Solomon SL-30
Solomon is a solid station, elenco clone is passable, clones of clones I dont know, tips readily available on ebay <$10

[Shock]

I bought my station 7 years ago and my purchase order from omnitronelectronics says it's VTSS20U

Nothing to do with fake Hakko tips? Start a new thread if you need help.

[Rasz]

I bought my station 7 years ago and my purchase order from omnitronelectronics says it's VTSS20U

Nothing to do with fake Hakko tips? Start a new thread if you need help.

to be fair he suspected it to be a fake hakko, while it was a fake fake of solomon

[vindicator]

tldr I went to Mercedes dealer and ranted about their sales rep not knowing anything about Fiat parts ...
edit: actually: I went to Mercedes dealer and ranted about their sales rep not knowing anything about TATA counterfeit of QQ counterfeit of Fiat parts ...

your station is a shitty clone of Elenco SL-30A clone  of Solomon SL-30
Solomon is a solid station, elenco clone is passable, clones of clones I dont know, tips readily available on ebay <$10

(I see I had to manually set notifications. Sorry it took so long.)
Thanks for that heads-up about Solomon. It would have been great if Velleman or Omni (or hakko?) would have told me they were clones of each other (or rebranded solomon).

I did see Solomon as another name in my image-matching searches, but had no idea which one was the "real slim-shady".
Note that neither 7 years ago, nor now, would I know what stations were original/(not clone). You could have easily fooled me by saying that Velleman was the OEM, and I could have bought into it based only on the expectation that you all seem to know what you're talking about.
I had a need to solder at the time, shopped around and saw a station that looked good and at a much better price than anything else that looked similar. It didn't have "cheap clone" stamped on it anywhere, and it worked just fine when I used it, though I have nothing to compare it to.

You've given me a huge direction to go in with the Solomon reference.

On the other point, I still stand by my assertion that I would think a company might want to produce replaceable items for competitor products if they can undercut the competitor or produce a higher quality replacement item. Or they could even say their products are better than <competitor> because of <point1> and <pointN>. After all that's what the mobile phone services (try to) do.
It isn't like I'm saying a bicycle sales person should know what parts make up a rocket or what ingredients go into vichyssoise. I could see that being a bit outlandish.