Author Topic: Good sidecutters?  (Read 38031 times)

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Offline capsicum

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2017, 08:27:18 am »
Knipex makes a wide range of 115-125mm side cutters, certainly not the only quality maker but they have a solid selection and good info on their website.
Model lines 62, 64 are small end and angle cutters 70, 75, 76, 77, 77H, 78, 79 are small side cutters 72 is for plastic; 75, 77, 79 are the top end, 77H is twice the price, 78 is half the price, 70/76 are mid grade. Online prices vary widely with individual sub models at the high end.
 
The variables in general are.
  • Joint. Riveted lap(the cheap line), forged integral lap aka single joint(look similar to box, mid range line), Box(one side passes through the other and are riveted, high end of line), and bolted(adjustable, high end of line)
  • Bevel angles, fine angles make cleaner cuts on soft materials but are weak, steeper or more balanced(left/right) edges are used on harder materials. Thus true flush side cutters generally don't last as long, especially cutting steel and center cutters are used on large two handed bolt cutters.
  • Steel hardness is directly proportional to strength for all common steels.(However toughness or impact energy absorption and abrasion resistance can vary widely at a given hardness)
    Hardness Rockwell C is popular for hardened steel but vickers covers a wider range of materials. Steel above about HRC 60 lacks any noticeable ductility and will fail by chipping rather than mushing.(either way the edge is ruined) Maximum hardness of any tool steel is 65-66HRC**, cemented carbides and ceramics can be over 85. Common stainless kitchen knives are often 56-58HRC Japanese plain-steel are 61-64; tempered hardware screws, springs and such 30-50HRC copper and very mild steel is below HRC-0.
    Rough conversion to Vickers hardness(Below 200, vickers is roughly=brinell): HRC65=HV700, 50=HV500, 30=HV280 10=HV180, mild steel is HV100-220, hard drawn copper HV90 annealed copper HV50, aluminum 6061 HV30-HV140.
    Knipex makes cutters with edges ranging from HRC 56 to HRC 64, a line with carbide HRC 81 (77H), and a line for plastic(hardness not listed). Why they make the softer items is probably just expense of manufacturing, except the stainless model where it is likely metallurgical and raw material cost. I suppose in certain clean areas, like around food, it would be better to bend then to have steel chips.
  • Nose shape, this is mostly just preference although the slimmest tips will be a bit weaker and more flexible, the heaviest rounded noses may not fit in small spaces, short heads are stiffer for the same width while long heads have reach and capacity.
  • Comfort: weight, handle padding bulk, spring open or no spring, when clamped do the handles pinch together or is there a space for skin.
**HRC 65-66 is the hardness of pure quenched and untempered high-carbon steel martensite, it is possible for macro tests to indicate up to hrc70 on some steels(with very rare alloys used by some custom knife makers) but this is caused by a large number of carbide particles spreading out the force of the indenter kind of like gravel in concrete, the base steel matrix binding it all together is still at or below HRC66 when micro tested between the carbide particles.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 08:31:20 am by capsicum »
 
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Offline eKretz

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2017, 09:07:14 am »
All the above is good information but anyone who uses their good quality flush cutters on anything but soft component leads, copper wire or soft plastic is a fool IMO. Use diagonal cutters for that, save the precision cutters for the precision work. It is actually possible to sharpen your own but it's not an easy task. Best done by someone with plenty of experience with sharpening. A good test is to cut a piece of multicore solder and look at the cross section to see if it gets crushed or if it's cut flush and the cores are clear and visible.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2017, 09:14:23 am »
Regarding Lindstrom, they're not what they used to be since production was moved to Spain (occurred under Sandvik's ownership IIRC, and has continued under Snap-On Europe's leadership).  :-- I've a pair of 8140Rx and I'm not fond of them (too much flex with wire gauge within specifications). Not that they don't work well enough, but they always make nervous of failing during normal use.

Yep, stay away from all the blue Lindstroms. They are the junk consumer version

Get the yellow 80 series, ive never had anything but awesome++ from the yellow ones.  Granted though, last time i got any was a year ago. So it could have changed.
My two yellow lindstorms are still cutting like new. Or they were until a month ago when  a friend cut a lipo battery cable and arced a chunk out of one pair. :(
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 09:22:52 am by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2017, 09:50:29 am »
All the above is good information but anyone who uses their good quality flush cutters on anything but soft component leads, copper wire or soft plastic is a fool IMO.
There are times when you need to. Like cutting a hole in a metal shield on a PCB (dull crappy cutters won't work)). For example, my Knipex 7861125 ESD is rated for 1.2mm steel wire.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 09:52:25 am by wraper »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2017, 10:00:24 am »
Regarding Lindstrom, they're not what they used to be since production was moved to Spain (occurred under Sandvik's ownership IIRC, and has continued under Snap-On Europe's leadership).  :-- I've a pair of 8140Rx and I'm not fond of them (too much flex with wire gauge within specifications). Not that they don't work well enough, but they always make nervous of failing during normal use.

Yep, stay away from all the blue Lindstroms. They are the junk consumer version

Get the yellow 80 series
Nope, blue Rx series are high end while 80 series are a bit below.
http://www.lindstromtools.com/pdf_down.php
Quote
Surpassed only by our own Lindström Rx range,
the Lindström 80 Series remains the top choice
for the traditional user

And BTW, the difference is only in handle, tool itself is the same. Add Rx in front of 80 series part number and get a blue handle. Not all of RX variant are available in 80 series and vice versa, though (page 17).
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 10:12:20 am by wraper »
 

Offline SingedFingers

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2017, 01:15:14 pm »
I bought three pairs of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00841YA44/ - at £5 each they're a total bargain.

Piergiacomi TRE-03-NB. As good as the yellow Lindstroms I knackered before I owned them.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2017, 01:42:46 pm »
I bought three pairs of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00841YA44/ - at £5 each they're a total bargain.

Piergiacomi TRE-03-NB. As good as the yellow Lindstroms I knackered before I owned them.
If you cut a wire <100 a year, then might look as good. In reality not even close (i have both).
 

Offline SingedFingers

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2017, 02:09:32 pm »
I sat and worked it out based on my usage and three pairs of them at £5 each last as long as a £56 pair of Lindstroms. The extra £41 differential is just burning cash on a well known brand if you ask me. I use them for lead forming, lead trimming and stripping only.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2017, 03:16:09 pm »
I sat and worked it out based on my usage and three pairs of them at £5 each last as long as a £56 pair of Lindstroms.
I cannot imagine they may last as long as they become dull very easily unlike Lindstrom.
 

Offline capsicum

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2017, 03:37:55 pm »
There are times when you need to. Like cutting a hole in a metal shield on a PCB (dull crappy cutters won't work)). For example, my Knipex 7861125 ESD is rated for 1.2mm steel wire.


That sub model has jaws hardened to 64HRC.
If you need to cut thicker or harder steel or more often, and don't need the cut quite as clean and flush, go with Model "79 12 125" which has a very slight outside bevel and angles focused specifically on hardened steel wire (piano wire, very hard) so the edge is a bit stronger and longer wearing, similar hardness at HRC-63.

Likewise for soft wire only "79 42 125-Z" is completely flush and specially angled for a smoother cut, also HRC63 but the fine edge angle is weaker and may chip if inappropriately stressed by hard metals. If you want to see the cores of your solder this model is the one to have.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 08:03:10 pm by capsicum »
 
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Offline nanofrog

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2017, 04:28:04 pm »
Yep, stay away from all the blue Lindstroms. They are the junk consumer version

Get the yellow 80 series, ive never had anything but awesome++ from the yellow ones.  Granted though, last time i got any was a year ago. So it could have changed.
My two yellow lindstorms are still cutting like new. Or they were until a month ago when  a friend cut a lipo battery cable and arced a chunk out of one pair. :(
Actually, the cutter itself is identical. Only the grips differ.

In the case of Lindstrom, the Swedish made pairs are what earned their reputation and Snap-On is milking it for all its worth.
 

Offline eliocor

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2017, 08:58:56 pm »
Any suggestion for cutting tungsten wire (max 0.1mm diameter)?
I destroyed a good pair of Erem cutters trying to do so: didn't know the wire was tungsten!!!
 

Offline mmagin

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2017, 09:16:00 pm »
For general electronics work I like my Knipex 77 42 115.  It's durable enough that cutting some plated steel items seems to have not hurt it.

On the other hand, the Wiha 56813 was completely unforgiving when I cut one of the gold-plated bits of a board-edge SMA connector - even though it has similar ratings to the Knipex.  This is what kinda soured me on Wiha.


I also have a Knipex 74 02 200, but I almost never get that out for electronics stuff.
 

Offline anman

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2017, 10:48:56 pm »
Any suggestion for cutting tungsten wire (max 0.1mm diameter)?
I destroyed a good pair of Erem cutters trying to do so: didn't know the wire was tungsten!!!
  Tungsten wire should be cut on the diamond wheel.
You can also get very hot wire (white heat), or by direct current transmission or a burner in a stretched state. This will lead to the fact that it will be a direct and fragile, and an external tungsten layer with defects - will burn. Since tungsten recrystallization its fibrous structure disappears.
Brittle wires are not cut diamond wheel and break with pliers.

P.S. I got the original Pro'sKit PM-396F Stainless Cutting Plier (115mm) and happy with his work throughout the year.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 11:06:04 pm by anman »
 
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2017, 11:47:09 pm »
My advice when it comes to side cutters, ALWAYS keep some monster wire cutters right next to them to avoid the temptation to cut coat hangers with the good ones!!  :-DD

The red handled Klein's get the abuse. These are old, maybe 35 or so years. 

The blue ones are Xcelite 170M.  Again, very old but I like these a lot.

The orange handled ones are my Erasers.  These were a replica but I can't remember who used to supply the originals.  These are all metal, nice quality. 

Offline eKretz

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2017, 06:36:59 am »
Yup exactly. Using precision cutters for grunt work is sure to destroy the cutting edges in short order. Like anything else, use the right tool for the job. Fully agree on the tungsten wire also - it's best to nick it and snap it. I use the same process when I need to cut tungsten electrodes for TIG welding.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2017, 06:57:38 am »
Regarding cutting tungsten wire, you could also opt to use an emery wheel/disk in a Dremel (assuming you have a Dremel or similar tool of course).
 
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Online Ian.M

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2017, 07:46:21 am »
Regarding cutting tungsten wire, you could also opt to use an emery wheel/disk in a Dremel (assuming you have a Dremel or similar tool of course).
If you want a clean cut without the wire trying to run away from you, clamp two lolly sticks or similar thin wood strips  in  a vice with the wire sandwiched in between them, and their ends + the wire protruding out the side then Dremel through both the wood and the wire with an abrasive cutting disk.   The wood supports the wire and damps vibration.

Shearing or snipping Tugsten wire is nothing but trouble - its fairly brittle and the shockwaves can and often do microfracture a considerable length of it leading to spalling and splitting if its flexed.
 

Offline eKretz

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2017, 11:45:08 am »
Yes if you don't nick/groove it, tungsten will always fracture. Grinding a quick groove around the circumference minimizes that. In the case of a TIG electrode, it has to be ground to a point anyway, so any tiny fracturing is inconsequential. In the case of a tungsten wire, it's probably best to cut it with a diamond cut off wheel if it needs to be very clean.
 

Offline Ducttape

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2017, 12:43:17 am »

C.K. do a carbide jawed version, the 3779 that will stand up to steel leads, but its a lot more expensive and one moment of idiocy like trying to cut a hardened steel pin could chip the jaws.   Its probably not worth it unless you've got a lot of mild steel leads to trim, and no idiots!
The image from your link seems to indicate that they are actually spec'd to handle 0.6mm piano wire (printed right on the handle). Holy cow, can that be true? If so I'd love to see their test procedure for compliance.
 

Offline eKretz

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2017, 02:32:19 am »
That's nothing, check these bad doggies out:

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/1X-5%201~2#Specifications

These are rated through 1.25mm (.050") hardened piano wire. They are the best and most durable nippers I've ever used bar none, but very pricy. I've gotten several sets used for pennies on the dollar. They make a larger set that's rated for 2.0mm (.080") also.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 02:42:43 am by eKretz »
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2017, 03:20:25 am »
That's nothing, check these bad doggies out:

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/1X-5%201~2#Specifications

These are rated through 1.25mm (.050") hardened piano wire. They are the best and most durable nippers I've ever used bar none, but very pricy. I've gotten several sets used for pennies on the dollar. They make a larger set that's rated for 2.0mm (.080") also.

May be tough getting close to the leads or not mangling other nearby parts.   

Offline eKretz

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2017, 04:34:39 am »
Yep, to make an analogy, they're more Mack truck than F1 racer, but they have their moments.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2017, 12:33:25 pm »
For pcb work I prefer EREM cutters, very expensive, swiss made and are damaged with too thick wire but the best I have ever had and still have.
Also ideally to cut the nails from your cat without chipping or complaints from the cat :D
So if you are disciplined in your work and you can keep your family out of the tooldrawer these are for you, if not skip them.
 
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Offline nanofrog

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Re: Good sidecutters?
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2017, 12:27:31 am »
For pcb work I prefer EREM cutters, very expensive, swiss made and are damaged with too thick wire but the best I have ever had and still have.
Also ideally to cut the nails from your cat without chipping or complaints from the cat :D
So if you are disciplined in your work and you can keep your family out of the tooldrawer these are for you, if not skip them.
They definitely make some fine cutters.  :-+

FWIW, I bought a couple with the Ergo-sense grips off of eBay, which slip around in my hands little bit. So I'm always having readjust which is a PITA. Fortunately, my 536 TX has the foam grips that don't slip around.   :phew:
 


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