Good sidecutters?

[LukeW]

Looking for some recommendations for miniature side cutters (110mm or so) with a nice feel, nice spring, high sharpness and capable of holding a sharp edge well when used within reason for light-duty electronics work.

I currently have a Tamiya 74001 and a Fujiya MP4-110, which I'm pretty happy with.

At the moment I seem to be buying a $30 pair of sidecutters such as above every 6 months to get something fresh and sharp and chucking the old one into the drawer full of blunt sidecutters.

Are there any other options on the market that will maybe be more efficient than that?

[RayRay]

Personally, I use the Pro'sKit PM-905F.
They're comfy, ultra sharp and cuts really well.
Bought em about a year ago (cost me $9) and they still work as good as new.
They've initially had a slight bit of oil residue on the rounded center part, but it was easy to clean.
But anyways, given your remark (about getting new cutters every 6 months for blade freshness) I'd be more concerned about whether you're making proper use of em or not. I mean, is it possible that you're cutting wires/cables of significantly larger size than what they're intended for?

[Ian.M]

Lap jointed cutters are almost invariably crap!  You should be looking for side cutters with a forged box joint.  If not abused, you should still be able to cut 0.1mm copper wire strands cleanly after several years of daily use.  One thing to beware of is components with plated steel leads - if you can pick them up with a magnet, don't use your best pair of side cutters on their leads!

I currently use Pro'sKit PK-22 side cutters.  DO NOT buy online - you need to find a stockist and check that you get an even full jaw length cut in a cigarette paper with only light pressure.  I rejected a couple of pairs before I found one I was happy with, but I was being fussy.

They replaced a pair of C.K Tools 3775 cutters that I had had for about ten years and broke when I didn't realise the cable I was cutting was copper clad steel.

At the C.K tools pricepoint you can generally order online safely, but if you go much cheaper there is no substitute for personally inspecting them before purchase.  The Pro'skit PK-22 cutters have held up well, definitely comparable to the CK 3775 ones.

If you pay really careful attention to the geometry it is possible to successfully resharpen most types of hardened steel jawed cutters.  Almost invariably one jaw has the precision cutting edge and the other jaw has a micro-flat that acts as an anvil, but maintaining the geometry can be a P.I.T.A, even with frequent cigarette paper testing while sharpening.

[elecman14]

My go to are the Excelta SE-25. They compare to the $130+ Excelta cutters but have less comfortable grips. They are also fairly cheap >$10 usd so I do not feel to bad when I view them as a consumable.

[Ian.M]

Yes.  Many of the brands of black oxide finished pressed steel lap jointed cutters, like the Excelta SE-25, are surprisingly good for what they are.  If you are in a shared workspace its worth having a couple of pairs to leave out so no-one bothers looking for your good box-jointed cutters!

[Someone]

Lap jointed cutters are almost invariably crap!  You should be looking for side cutters with a forged box joint.  If not abused, you should still be able to cut 0.1mm copper wire strands cleanly after several years of daily use.

Baloney, there are crap cutters with all styles of joint:
http://www.knipex.com/en/pliers-abc/basic-information-about-pliers/style-of-joints/
Many of the cheap rubbish brands make box joints just to hit the marketing, while the premium brands such as Lindström and Erem don't make box joints. Just for comparison I pulled out some daily use Xuron 9200 cutters and they went cleanly through 0.05mm when they're only warranted for 0.25mm (AWG30), and they're a simple lap joint.

Looking for some recommendations for miniature side cutters (110mm or so) with a nice feel, nice spring, high sharpness and capable of holding a sharp edge well when used within reason for light-duty electronics work.

I currently have a Tamiya 74001 and a Fujiya MP4-110, which I'm pretty happy with.

The problem is both of those products are designed and marketed for cutting plastic model parts, they're probably a very soft finish on the blades. You'll want to buy some cutters that have hardened blades suitable for soft metals. There are some long threads on this forum with suggestions at all price points.

[LukeW]

The Xuron 9200 looks OK if it has higher blade hardness.

It's kind of crap that Jaycar markets the MP4-110 without specifying it for plastic. (Being in an electronics store implicitly means it will be used with light-duty electronic conductors, IMO.)
But then again Jaycar is always crap when it comes to accurate and detailed identity, data or documentation of their products.

Lap jointed cutters are almost invariably crap!  You should be looking for side cutters with a forged box joint.  If not abused, you should still be able to cut 0.1mm copper wire strands cleanly after several years of daily use.  One thing to beware of is components with plated steel leads - if you can pick them up with a magnet, don't use your best pair of side cutters on their leads!

I currently use Pro'sKit PK-22 side cutters.  DO NOT buy online - you need to find a stockist and check that you get an even full jaw length cut in a cigarette paper with only light pressure.  I rejected a couple of pairs before I found one I was happy with, but I was being fussy.

They replaced a pair of C.K Tools 3775 cutters that I had had for about ten years and broke when I didn't realise the cable I was cutting was copper clad steel.

At the C.K tools pricepoint you can generally order online safely, but if you go much cheaper there is no substitute for personally inspecting them before purchase.  The Pro'skit PK-22 cutters have held up well, definitely comparable to the CK 3775 ones.

If you pay really careful attention to the geometry it is possible to successfully resharpen most types of hardened steel jawed cutters.  Almost invariably one jaw has the precision cutting edge and the other jaw has a micro-flat that acts as an anvil, but maintaining the geometry can be a P.I.T.A, even with frequent cigarette paper testing while sharpening.

The "cigarette paper test" is a nice metric.

Let me ask a related question - with typical use, how long would you expect a pair of cutters to keep passing the cigarette paper test for, because that's the kind of metric I'm interested in.

[Ian.M]

I'd say that very much depends on your typical use (and abuse).  If you strictly avoid all parts with magnetic leads, or using them to nibble PCBs etc. then in a repair shop, I'd personally expect something like five years out of a good pair of the Pro'skit PK-22 ones, and the same or possibly longer out of the CK 3779 ones.  If you are doing a lot of assembly or wiring work they'll see a lot more use and will obviously wear out sooner. Just don't let the boss borrow them - cheap 'CT100' sat cable with a copper clad steel center conductor is *NOT* kind to good cutters!

C.K. do a carbide jawed version, the 3779 that will stand up to steel leads, but its a lot more expensive and one moment of idiocy like trying to cut a hardened steel pin could chip the jaws.   Its probably not worth it unless you've got a lot of mild steel leads to trim, and no idiots!

[amspire]

I have a Linstrom 8150 (https://www.amazon.com/Lindstrom-8150-80-Micro-Bevel-Capacity/dp/B0001P0DIS) that I have used for over 40 years.  The edges are still in near perfect condition. They are still fine for cutting AWG 40 gauge wire. These are the cutters I use for any heavy work - like cutting open moulded plastic items. Rated for 1.6mm copper or 0.4mm spring steel.

[FlyingHacker]

I know this is probably sacrilege, and I am one to appreciate e quality hand tools... but my cheaply Harbor Freight flush side cutters have been used for light to medium duty electronics work, including a lot of cutting of larger wires for repairing old tube radios, for a few years. I figured they would be garbage when I got them, but they are literally my most used hand tool.

I was really surprised at how well they have held up, and, since they are cheap, I have abused them too.

[LukeW]

Anyone know a distributor in Australia for genuine ProsKit or CK?

[Vgkid]

I know this is probably sacrilege, and I am one to appreciate e quality hand tools... but my cheaply Harbor Freight flush side cutters have been used for light to medium duty electronics work, including a lot of cutting of larger wires for repairing old tube radios, for a few years. I figured they would be garbage when I got them, but they are literally my most used hand tool.

I was really surprised at how well they have held up, and, since they are cheap, I have abused them too.

Same, I always pick up a pair whenever I go by HFT.

[Someone]

Anyone know a distributor in Australia for genuine ProsKit or CK?

From experience they're some of the worst value choices available. There are much better tools for the same price and many better tools for a lot cheaper.

[testmode]

I bought the Hakko CHP Micro Cutter from Amazon last year.  $30 for 5 pcs.  So far, the first one is still doing pretty well.  I could recommend them.  I don't consider myself a heavy user though so your mileage may vary.

https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-CHP-Micro-Cutter-Clean/dp/B0063GL7UM

[eKretz]

 I personally like used vintage cutters from eBay. They seem to be better quality and hold up better than a lot of the new stuff. I have had good experiences with both Lindstrom and Erem.

[FlyingHacker]

I bought the Hakko CHP Micro Cutter from Amazon last year.  $30 for 5 pcs.  So far, the first one is still doing pretty well.  I could recommend them.  I don't consider myself a heavy user though so your mileage may vary.

https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-CHP-Micro-Cutter-Clean/dp/B0063GL7UM

I got a free pair of the Hakko side cutters. I tried them and realized I much preferred the Harbor Freight ones, believe it or not. I use them about once a month when I can't find the Harbor Freight cutters on my messy bench.

[testmode]

I bought the Hakko CHP Micro Cutter from Amazon last year.  $30 for 5 pcs.  So far, the first one is still doing pretty well.  I could recommend them.  I don't consider myself a heavy user though so your mileage may vary.

https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-CHP-Micro-Cutter-Clean/dp/B0063GL7UM

I got a free pair of the Hakko side cutters. I tried them and realized I much preferred the Harbor Freight ones, believe it or not. I use them about once a month when I can't find the Harbor Freight cutters on my messy bench.

Maybe because they were free?  Kidding!

But I guess still for the price, the Hakko's are hard to beat!  And I found out that it's even cheaper if you buy them individually @ $4.47 a piece!

https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-CHP-170-Stand-off-Construction-21-Degree/dp/B00FZPDG1K?th=1

[wraper]

Hakko sidecutters are actually made by Piergiacomi http://www.piergiacomi.com/piergiacomi/
On the first sight they look and work good, however steel used is rather soft. If you try cutting anything other than pure copper wires, cutting edge will become dull and bent in instant.

[SKPang]

I use Lindstrom, expensive but they last for years.

[bookaboo]

Another Lindstom vote, my daily use cutters are 15 years old and going strong.

[GreyWoolfe]

Hakko sidecutters are actually made by Piergiacomi http://www.piergiacomi.com/piergiacomi/
On the first sight they look and work good, however steel used is rather soft. If you try cutting anything other than pure copper wires, cutting edge will become dull and bent in instant.

I got the same deal a couple of years ago.  I am still using the first one, have 1 in my tool bag in my company van, 1 spare and I gave the other 2 away.  I only use them for cutting component leads or wire ties.  The original pair is still nice and sharp.  I try not to abuse my stuff, cheap or otherwise.

[Tac Eht Xilef]

Anyone know a distributor in Australia for genuine ProsKit or CK?

From experience they're some of the worst value choices available. There are much better tools for the same price and many better tools for a lot cheaper.

Not sure I totally agree with that. Even though they look like cheap junk, the PA-101's I paid < AU$5 for at E14 a couple of years ago get as much use as my Lindströms and (touch wood) so far they've lasted well (including occasionally cutting that awful CCS coax shit). At first glance, they appear to be the same as the Hakko-branded ones (edit: reading above, I guess they're not).

Either way, they're certainly better than the AU$30 shit Jaycar sells...

[Smith]

Another vote for Lindstrom, for build quality. They tend to last forever. Although I prefer the  Erem ones for daily use. They are quality tools too, but they feel more ergonomic. I used multiple other quality brands including Knipex, but I don't really like any of them.

[Vgkid]

While not exactly small. Has anyone looked into the Tungsten Carbide dental type flush Hard-wire cutters.

[nanofrog]

While not exactly small. Has anyone looked into the Tungsten Carbide dental type flush Hard-wire cutters.

Not the dental versions, but I've both Erem & Swanstrom with steel that contains Tungsten Carbide rather than TC inserts (latter is part of their surgical series). I got these very cheap via eBay (have the ability to wait for the right deal/s to surface). Tough cutters IME, and as inexpensive parts more and more seem to be using tin plated steel leads, they're very useful IME (no dings in the blades).

Regarding Lindstrom, they're not what they used to be since production was moved to Spain (occurred under Sandvik's ownership IIRC, and has continued under Snap-On Europe's leadership).  I've a pair of 8140Rx and I'm not fond of them (too much flex with wire gauge within specifications). Not that they don't work well enough, but they always make nervous of failing during normal use.

FWIW, for those that want new cutters or pliers, I'd recommend taking a serious look at Schmitz (box joints, and teeth on their pliers hold up extremely well <i.e. don't flatten out like other tier 1 brands>).

Otherwise, I'd recommend used. Specifically, I'd look for Tronex, Swanstrom, and Erem (all w/ foam grips). Some others to hunt for would be CK Tools (rebranded Schmitz), and Belzer off the top of my head. Got mine for pennies on the dollar (i.e. Swanstrom TC cutters for ~$15 shipped IIRC; example).   

[capsicum]

Knipex makes a wide range of 115-125mm side cutters, certainly not the only quality maker but they have a solid selection and good info on their website.
Model lines 62, 64 are small end and angle cutters 70, 75, 76, 77, 77H, 78, 79 are small side cutters 72 is for plastic; 75, 77, 79 are the top end, 77H is twice the price, 78 is half the price, 70/76 are mid grade. Online prices vary widely with individual sub models at the high end.
 
The variables in general are.

• Joint. Riveted lap(the cheap line), forged integral lap aka single joint(look similar to box, mid range line), Box(one side passes through the other and are riveted, high end of line), and bolted(adjustable, high end of line)
• Bevel angles, fine angles make cleaner cuts on soft materials but are weak, steeper or more balanced(left/right) edges are used on harder materials. Thus true flush side cutters generally don't last as long, especially cutting steel and center cutters are used on large two handed bolt cutters.
• Steel hardness is directly proportional to strength for all common steels.(However toughness or impact energy absorption and abrasion resistance can vary widely at a given hardness)
  Hardness Rockwell C is popular for hardened steel but vickers covers a wider range of materials. Steel above about HRC 60 lacks any noticeable ductility and will fail by chipping rather than mushing.(either way the edge is ruined) Maximum hardness of any tool steel is 65-66HRC**, cemented carbides and ceramics can be over 85. Common stainless kitchen knives are often 56-58HRC Japanese plain-steel are 61-64; tempered hardware screws, springs and such 30-50HRC copper and very mild steel is below HRC-0.
  Rough conversion to Vickers hardness(Below 200, vickers is roughly=brinell): HRC65=HV700, 50=HV500, 30=HV280 10=HV180, mild steel is HV100-220, hard drawn copper HV90 annealed copper HV50, aluminum 6061 HV30-HV140.
  Knipex makes cutters with edges ranging from HRC 56 to HRC 64, a line with carbide HRC 81 (77H), and a line for plastic(hardness not listed). Why they make the softer items is probably just expense of manufacturing, except the stainless model where it is likely metallurgical and raw material cost. I suppose in certain clean areas, like around food, it would be better to bend then to have steel chips.
• Nose shape, this is mostly just preference although the slimmest tips will be a bit weaker and more flexible, the heaviest rounded noses may not fit in small spaces, short heads are stiffer for the same width while long heads have reach and capacity.
• Comfort: weight, handle padding bulk, spring open or no spring, when clamped do the handles pinch together or is there a space for skin.

**HRC 65-66 is the hardness of pure quenched and untempered high-carbon steel martensite, it is possible for macro tests to indicate up to hrc70 on some steels(with very rare alloys used by some custom knife makers) but this is caused by a large number of carbide particles spreading out the force of the indenter kind of like gravel in concrete, the base steel matrix binding it all together is still at or below HRC66 when micro tested between the carbide particles.

[eKretz]

All the above is good information but anyone who uses their good quality flush cutters on anything but soft component leads, copper wire or soft plastic is a fool IMO. Use diagonal cutters for that, save the precision cutters for the precision work. It is actually possible to sharpen your own but it's not an easy task. Best done by someone with plenty of experience with sharpening. A good test is to cut a piece of multicore solder and look at the cross section to see if it gets crushed or if it's cut flush and the cores are clear and visible.

[Psi]

Regarding Lindstrom, they're not what they used to be since production was moved to Spain (occurred under Sandvik's ownership IIRC, and has continued under Snap-On Europe's leadership).  I've a pair of 8140Rx and I'm not fond of them (too much flex with wire gauge within specifications). Not that they don't work well enough, but they always make nervous of failing during normal use.

Yep, stay away from all the blue Lindstroms. They are the junk consumer version

Get the yellow 80 series, ive never had anything but awesome++ from the yellow ones.  Granted though, last time i got any was a year ago. So it could have changed.
My two yellow lindstorms are still cutting like new. Or they were until a month ago when  a friend cut a lipo battery cable and arced a chunk out of one pair.

[wraper]

All the above is good information but anyone who uses their good quality flush cutters on anything but soft component leads, copper wire or soft plastic is a fool IMO.

There are times when you need to. Like cutting a hole in a metal shield on a PCB (dull crappy cutters won't work)). For example, my Knipex 7861125 ESD is rated for 1.2mm steel wire.

[wraper]

Regarding Lindstrom, they're not what they used to be since production was moved to Spain (occurred under Sandvik's ownership IIRC, and has continued under Snap-On Europe's leadership).  I've a pair of 8140Rx and I'm not fond of them (too much flex with wire gauge within specifications). Not that they don't work well enough, but they always make nervous of failing during normal use.

Yep, stay away from all the blue Lindstroms. They are the junk consumer version

Get the yellow 80 series

Nope, blue Rx series are high end while 80 series are a bit below.
http://www.lindstromtools.com/pdf_down.php

Surpassed only by our own Lindström Rx range,
the Lindström 80 Series remains the top choice
for the traditional user

And BTW, the difference is only in handle, tool itself is the same. Add Rx in front of 80 series part number and get a blue handle. Not all of RX variant are available in 80 series and vice versa, though (page 17).

[SingedFingers]

I bought three pairs of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00841YA44/ - at £5 each they're a total bargain.

Piergiacomi TRE-03-NB. As good as the yellow Lindstroms I knackered before I owned them.

[wraper]

I bought three pairs of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00841YA44/ - at £5 each they're a total bargain.

Piergiacomi TRE-03-NB. As good as the yellow Lindstroms I knackered before I owned them.

If you cut a wire <100 a year, then might look as good. In reality not even close (i have both).

[SingedFingers]

I sat and worked it out based on my usage and three pairs of them at £5 each last as long as a £56 pair of Lindstroms. The extra £41 differential is just burning cash on a well known brand if you ask me. I use them for lead forming, lead trimming and stripping only.

[wraper]

I sat and worked it out based on my usage and three pairs of them at £5 each last as long as a £56 pair of Lindstroms.

I cannot imagine they may last as long as they become dull very easily unlike Lindstrom.

[capsicum]

There are times when you need to. Like cutting a hole in a metal shield on a PCB (dull crappy cutters won't work)). For example, my Knipex 7861125 ESD is rated for 1.2mm steel wire.

That sub model has jaws hardened to 64HRC.
If you need to cut thicker or harder steel or more often, and don't need the cut quite as clean and flush, go with Model "79 12 125" which has a very slight outside bevel and angles focused specifically on hardened steel wire (piano wire, very hard) so the edge is a bit stronger and longer wearing, similar hardness at HRC-63.

Likewise for soft wire only "79 42 125-Z" is completely flush and specially angled for a smoother cut, also HRC63 but the fine edge angle is weaker and may chip if inappropriately stressed by hard metals. If you want to see the cores of your solder this model is the one to have.

[nanofrog]

Yep, stay away from all the blue Lindstroms. They are the junk consumer version

Get the yellow 80 series, ive never had anything but awesome++ from the yellow ones.  Granted though, last time i got any was a year ago. So it could have changed.
My two yellow lindstorms are still cutting like new. Or they were until a month ago when  a friend cut a lipo battery cable and arced a chunk out of one pair.

Actually, the cutter itself is identical. Only the grips differ.

In the case of Lindstrom, the Swedish made pairs are what earned their reputation and Snap-On is milking it for all its worth.

[eliocor]

Any suggestion for cutting tungsten wire (max 0.1mm diameter)?
I destroyed a good pair of Erem cutters trying to do so: didn't know the wire was tungsten!!!

[mmagin]

For general electronics work I like my Knipex 77 42 115.  It's durable enough that cutting some plated steel items seems to have not hurt it.

On the other hand, the Wiha 56813 was completely unforgiving when I cut one of the gold-plated bits of a board-edge SMA connector - even though it has similar ratings to the Knipex.  This is what kinda soured me on Wiha.


I also have a Knipex 74 02 200, but I almost never get that out for electronics stuff.

[anman]

Any suggestion for cutting tungsten wire (max 0.1mm diameter)?
I destroyed a good pair of Erem cutters trying to do so: didn't know the wire was tungsten!!!

  Tungsten wire should be cut on the diamond wheel.
You can also get very hot wire (white heat), or by direct current transmission or a burner in a stretched state. This will lead to the fact that it will be a direct and fragile, and an external tungsten layer with defects - will burn. Since tungsten recrystallization its fibrous structure disappears.
Brittle wires are not cut diamond wheel and break with pliers.

P.S. I got the original Pro'sKit PM-396F Stainless Cutting Plier (115mm) and happy with his work throughout the year.

[joeqsmith]

My advice when it comes to side cutters, ALWAYS keep some monster wire cutters right next to them to avoid the temptation to cut coat hangers with the good ones!! 

The red handled Klein's get the abuse. These are old, maybe 35 or so years. 

The blue ones are Xcelite 170M.  Again, very old but I like these a lot.

The orange handled ones are my Erasers.  These were a replica but I can't remember who used to supply the originals.  These are all metal, nice quality. 

[eKretz]

Yup exactly. Using precision cutters for grunt work is sure to destroy the cutting edges in short order. Like anything else, use the right tool for the job. Fully agree on the tungsten wire also - it's best to nick it and snap it. I use the same process when I need to cut tungsten electrodes for TIG welding.

[nanofrog]

Regarding cutting tungsten wire, you could also opt to use an emery wheel/disk in a Dremel (assuming you have a Dremel or similar tool of course).

[Ian.M]

Regarding cutting tungsten wire, you could also opt to use an emery wheel/disk in a Dremel (assuming you have a Dremel or similar tool of course).

If you want a clean cut without the wire trying to run away from you, clamp two lolly sticks or similar thin wood strips  in  a vice with the wire sandwiched in between them, and their ends + the wire protruding out the side then Dremel through both the wood and the wire with an abrasive cutting disk.   The wood supports the wire and damps vibration.

Shearing or snipping Tugsten wire is nothing but trouble - its fairly brittle and the shockwaves can and often do microfracture a considerable length of it leading to spalling and splitting if its flexed.

[eKretz]

Yes if you don't nick/groove it, tungsten will always fracture. Grinding a quick groove around the circumference minimizes that. In the case of a TIG electrode, it has to be ground to a point anyway, so any tiny fracturing is inconsequential. In the case of a tungsten wire, it's probably best to cut it with a diamond cut off wheel if it needs to be very clean.

[Ducttape]

C.K. do a carbide jawed version, the 3779 that will stand up to steel leads, but its a lot more expensive and one moment of idiocy like trying to cut a hardened steel pin could chip the jaws.   Its probably not worth it unless you've got a lot of mild steel leads to trim, and no idiots!

The image from your link seems to indicate that they are actually spec'd to handle 0.6mm piano wire (printed right on the handle). Holy cow, can that be true? If so I'd love to see their test procedure for compliance.

[eKretz]

That's nothing, check these bad doggies out:

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/1X-5%201~2#Specifications

These are rated through 1.25mm (.050") hardened piano wire. They are the best and most durable nippers I've ever used bar none, but very pricy. I've gotten several sets used for pennies on the dollar. They make a larger set that's rated for 2.0mm (.080") also.

[joeqsmith]

That's nothing, check these bad doggies out:

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/1X-5%201~2#Specifications

These are rated through 1.25mm (.050") hardened piano wire. They are the best and most durable nippers I've ever used bar none, but very pricy. I've gotten several sets used for pennies on the dollar. They make a larger set that's rated for 2.0mm (.080") also.

May be tough getting close to the leads or not mangling other nearby parts.   

[eKretz]

Yep, to make an analogy, they're more Mack truck than F1 racer, but they have their moments.

[Kjelt]

For pcb work I prefer EREM cutters, very expensive, swiss made and are damaged with too thick wire but the best I have ever had and still have.
Also ideally to cut the nails from your cat without chipping or complaints from the cat
So if you are disciplined in your work and you can keep your family out of the tooldrawer these are for you, if not skip them.

[nanofrog]

For pcb work I prefer EREM cutters, very expensive, swiss made and are damaged with too thick wire but the best I have ever had and still have.
Also ideally to cut the nails from your cat without chipping or complaints from the cat
So if you are disciplined in your work and you can keep your family out of the tooldrawer these are for you, if not skip them.

They definitely make some fine cutters. 

FWIW, I bought a couple with the Ergo-sense grips off of eBay, which slip around in my hands little bit. So I'm always having readjust which is a PITA. Fortunately, my 536 TX has the foam grips that don't slip around.   

[eKretz]

Mine have the light blue grips that sort of look like foam, they are excellent. They seem to grab the hand almost like skateboard grip tape. I bought a lot of 5 pairs in an auction and sharpened then myself, they are fantastic. Afterward I found out that they have a lifetime free resharpening service (you still pay shipping).

[Vgkid]

Anyone heard of Aven?

[mmagin]

Anyone heard of Aven?

I didn't know they make sidecutters.
They make some good tweezers (and some cheaper ones too).  I also have some tuning tools from them that I like.

[nanofrog]

Anyone heard of Aven?

Yes. And they're just rebranding stuff made by others.

[edavid]

I am still working my way through a pack of Plato cutters I bought 15 (?) years ago from BG Micro.  No complaints.

I was surprised to see that BG Micro is still around, and still sells them: http://www.bgmicro.com/TOL1038.aspx


Has anyone ordered Plato or "Plato" cutters from AliExpress?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/American-Plato-PLATO-170-wishful-clamp-DIY-pliers-Electronic-pliers-Diagonal-pliers-Wishful-clamp/32725136902.html

Hmm, here is some (autotranslated) feedback:

Chinese quality. It is a fake Chinese. I try winepress bring. The only thing, pleased that the price. Packaged well.

[helius]

I find Xuron cutters very comfortable for most tasks. They also seem to be durable enough (unlike with pliers, you shouldn't be putting so much leverage on side cutters that box vs lap joint makes the slightest difference).

[joeqsmith]

Made a short video of the ERASER TP-8 cut and clinch tool. 

[Vgkid]

That seems like a pretty violent ejection.

[cluca1969]

Hello to everyone,
I have a Xcelite TCMB150MT tool kit and I need some advice from you, does anyone know what I can clean the handles of the pliers with foam green-blue grips, a method or some clean substances ?
Thank you very much.

[Psi]

Regarding Lindstrom, they're not what they used to be since production was moved to Spain (occurred under Sandvik's ownership IIRC, and has continued under Snap-On Europe's leadership).  I've a pair of 8140Rx and I'm not fond of them (too much flex with wire gauge within specifications). Not that they don't work well enough, but they always make nervous of failing during normal use.

Yep, stay away from all the blue Lindstroms. They are the junk consumer version

Get the yellow 80 series

Nope, blue Rx series are high end while 80 series are a bit below.
http://www.lindstromtools.com/pdf_down.php

I've seen lots of blue Lindstroms that are in a bad state. blades not aligned, stupid plastic spring rather than metal. They just feel junky and dont cut as nice as the 80 yellow series.

[GreyWoolfe]

Hello to everyone,
I have a Xcelite TCMB150MT tool kit and I need some advice from you, does anyone know what I can clean the handles of the pliers with foam green-blue grips, a method or some clean substances ?
Thank you very much.

Try a grease cutting dishwashing soap.  Here is the US, we have Dawn, don't know if you do, if so, that is what I would recommend.  Simple Green, if available, is another option.

[cluca1969]

GreyWoolfe:
Thank you very much for your kindness.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Whatever you use, you should also have a couple of cheapo pairs for cutting stuff that might damage more expensive ones. 
I went off Lindstrom (white and yellow) after I had a coupe of heads breaking under only mild abuse - a probelm with box-joints is the metal is inevitably thinner than lap-joint. 
I have a couple of pairs of CK cutters that have lasted pretty well, though the cut isn't as flush as I'd like (not so good at stripping as true flush-cut).
For bigger stuff, I've found Knipex are pretty indestructable
.
 

[cluca1969]

Whatever you use, you should also have a couple of cheapo pairs for cutting stuff that might damage more expensive ones. 
I went off Lindstrom (white and yellow) after I had a coupe of heads breaking under only mild abuse - a probelm with box-joints is the metal is inevitably thinner than lap-joint. 
I have a couple of pairs of CK cutters that have lasted pretty well, though the cut isn't as flush as I'd like (not so good at stripping as true flush-cut).
For bigger stuff, I've found Knipex are pretty indestructable
.

You are right that you must have other side cutter models, I have a few side cutters like Belzer, Bahco, Knipex, Weller, Draper.
The idea was that I want to get up with a new face for those in my Xcelite tool kit and I'm looking for a cleaning method for the grip handles that are made of a harder sponge which in time becomes harder, become stiffer.
I tried some methods but no notable results:
- dishwasher
- isopropyl alcohol
- vinegar
- toothpaste
- coca-cola
- sandpaper fine grade
- lemon juice
- baking soda + vinegar

And as a last and desperate attempt would be a immersion in hot water + dishwasher.

[FrankE]

I've had CK for 25 years varying from light usage to heavy commercial usage. I always wanted to 'upgrade' to Lindstrom blues but when I did, I realised the CKs are fine. The linstrom needle nosed were mangled within a month.
I've some Bahco snips which are good too.

[nanofrog]

I've had CK for 25 years varying from light usage to heavy commercial usage. I always wanted to 'upgrade' to Lindstrom blues but when I did, I realised the CKs are fine. The linstrom needle nosed were mangled within a month.
I've some Bahco snips which are good too.

FWIW, CK's cutters & pliers are actually made by Schmitz, and they sell directly for less (also ODM for Bernstein, NWS's yellow grips, Ohm, Gedore, and others).

Their shipping seems to have gone back to flat rate, so it's only cost effective if you order multiples at a time (came out to ~$6 per for me for 4 pcs to the US). They also sell through Amazon.co.uk, which may be less expensive for singles. Definitely less expensive than the same tool from CK. 

[FrankE]

FWIW, CK's cutters & pliers are actually made by Schmitz, and they sell directly for less (also ODM for Bernstein, NWS's yellow grips, Ohm, Gedore, and others).

Their shipping seems to have gone back to flat rate, so it's only cost effective if you order multiples at a time (came out to ~$6 per for me for 4 pcs to the US). They also sell through Amazon.co.uk, which may be less expensive for singles. Definitely less expensive than the same tool from CK. 

So I read. We'd no web back in the eighties when I bought them.They were cheap back in the day but I was shocked at their current price.
I could use a pair of ESD oblique flush cutters( frequent use) and a micro-serrated jaw shears for ribbon that won't crush (infrequent use). Any recommendations anyone?

[nanofrog]

I could use a pair of ESD oblique flush cutters( frequent use) and a micro-serrated jaw shears for ribbon that won't crush (infrequent use). Any recommendations anyone?

• Oblique Cutters: Schmitz 3512 HS 22
• Micro Shears: Gingher 01005284

There are less expensive micro serrated shears, but I'm not familiar with them (i.e. a pair for ~10 - 11GBP on Amazon.co.uk from Tonic).

[FrankE]

Haha, yeah I'm currently using household scissors and though it works it seems a bit make-do-and-mend, which, come to think of it is what electronics repair is about.
Those schmitzes are a good price.

[pfrcom]

Anyone know a distributor in Australia for genuine ProsKit or CK?

http://www.radioparts.com.au stock some of it - don't know about a distributor

[hrbngr]

Can anyone that uses the EREM flush cutters recommend some part#s?  I am looking for an Side Cutter Oval head pair for the big stuff and a Pointed Relieved-Head or Side Cutter Tapered head pair for finer work and getting into tight spaces. I would also prefer the ones w/the foam grips if possible.

Based on a review of Erem's catalog ( http://www.weller-toolsus.com/MagentoShare/media/documents/ATGCatalog_EremLR.pdf  ) a good oval option seems to be the Series 800 822N (flush) or 896E (semi-flush), and for the Relieved ones, the Series 600 Micro 622NB (flush) or 776E (Super full flush)...since i have not used these types, i'm not really sure if they are the right ones, so definitely looking for options.

Also, is anyone aware of a decent, reasonably affordable carbide flush cutter for the tuff stuff?

[nanofrog]

Can anyone that uses the EREM flush cutters recommend some part#s?  I am looking for an Side Cutter Oval head pair for the big stuff and a Pointed Relieved-Head or Side Cutter Tapered head pair for finer work and getting into tight spaces. I would also prefer the ones w/the foam grips if possible.

Based on a review of Erem's catalog ( http://www.weller-toolsus.com/MagentoShare/media/documents/ATGCatalog_EremLR.pdf  ) a good oval option seems to be the Series 800 822N (flush) or 896E (semi-flush), and for the Relieved ones, the Series 600 Micro 622NB (flush) or 776E (Super full flush)...since i have not used these types, i'm not really sure if they are the right ones, so definitely looking for options.

Also, is anyone aware of a decent, reasonably affordable carbide flush cutter for the tuff stuff?

The 896E and 622NB would be fine IMHO. For disclosure, I'm fond of a semi-flush as the spike is smaller without sacrificing longevity (full flush won't last as long. As you're in the US however, I'd recommend looking at other brands such as Tronex and Swanstrom (both offer standard and longer length foam grips).

For example, you could take a look at Swanstrom S512 or Tronex 5112 or 7112 for general purpose (7xxx = longer grips), and a Tronex 5422/7422 for small taper relieved.

There's a used pair of Swanstrom M409C tungsten carbide cutters that's a steal (data sheet; smallest oval head size). A used pair of Erem 595T tungsten carbide cutters are on eBay that looks to be in good shape as well. I think these will have a bit larger capacity than the M409C.

If you can deal with non-foam grips, you should also take a look at Schmitz (they are the ODM for CK Tools and Bernstein, as well as others). Top quality at ~ half the price or less of Tronex, Swanstrom, or Erem (just make a single order, as it's flat rate shipping from Germany to keep it cost effective; their pliers are second to none IME).

[hrbngr]

nanofrog,

thanks for the reply. I took a look at the Schmitz cutters in the link you provided and I will now try to guess the models you would recommend. Please let me know if I am even close.  :-)

**note these are all the standard length of 125mm, not the small @ 120mm or Strong @ 130-140mm (I have a regular size hand, so if the "small" or "strong" are better for certain types, plz let me know.

Oval Head w/fine bevel (guessing it's closest to the semi-flush you mentioned
Tapered Head Relieved w/fine bevel
Oblique Tip cutter w/fine
Oblique Cutter w/fine


With Googles' $ to EU conversion, those (4) would run about $130 before shipping.

[eliocor]

I currently use 522N and 622N and I will not regret them: if correctly used they will last for years without losing cut.
Highly suggested!

[nanofrog]

Oval Head w/fine bevel (guessing it's closest to the semi-flush you mentioned
Tapered Head Relieved w/fine bevel
Oblique Tip cutter w/fine
Oblique Cutter w/fine

The models that state w/fine are semi-flush, and the 125mm dual compound grips are fine IME (I have these on the pliers I bought from them).

As per the bevel terminology, it's easier to figure out from their catalog as most brands use their own marketing terms for such a simple thing. In the case of Schmitz, their term of with bevel is a standard bevel (produces the largest spike), fine bevel is their term for semi-flush, and without bevel for full flush.

As per model numbers, these would make a nice set IMHO:

• 3202HS22 (medium oval, semi-flush)
• 3232HS22 (medium tapered relieved, semi-flush). A smaller version is available if you'd prefer.
• 3522HS22 (oblique)*

These three combined, come out to a total of 96.50EUR, which includes the shipping (change the country under address, and the VAT drops out). For conversion, PayPal does their own, but it's competitive. They also add in a small fee (2.something if you set the payment method as a bank account, and 4% for CC when I did it.).

To get an accurate idea of conversion rates, use Xe.com. Only comes out to ~$118.93 + conversion fee (~$123.69 if you use a CC @ 4% fee). So roughly $40 per pair.

Add in another pair or some pliers (cheaper than cutters BTW), it will get lower as the shipping is flat rate @ 19.90EUR (double checked).

* My preferred oblique, but this is personal preference. I've a pair like the others you linked, but haven't used it since sometime in the 1980's.

[hrbngr]

eliocor,
thanks for the advice. Where do you use the slightly heavier duty 522n vs the 622n in your work?

nanofrog,
is there any particular style where a super flush/full flush/no bevel might be useful--even with the increased wear/reduced edge life? I mostly mess around w small electronics kits, parts replacement (mouse switch) and will be attempting to assemble a raspberry pi at some point, fyi.

[eliocor]

I prefer the 522 ones for my daily work (even used for stripping from wirewrapping wire to 1.5-2.5mm² wires!).
please take a look at photos and my opinions regarding those cutters:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/lindstrom-cutters/
Just to note it, at this date I have not yet replaced the ones photographed 2012-09!!! They are yet good even if used on daily routine!
If you are looking for Tweezers, there is almost one single company: Lindstrom or Ideal Tek which produce them for Lindstrom*.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/on-ebay-lindstrom-tweezers/ (you will find some comments of mine also on cutters)

*) but to my knowledge the Lindstrom ones are made better (maybe differente customer requirements) than the Ideal Tek ones!

[nanofrog]

nanofrog,
is there any particular style where a super flush/full flush/no bevel might be useful--even with the increased wear/reduced edge life? I mostly mess around w small electronics kits, parts replacement (mouse switch) and will be attempting to assemble a raspberry pi at some point, fyi.

For what you've described as your usage above, there's no need for this on general purpose cutters.

It's required for things like Mil-Spec & Aerospace systems where physical shock to the component lead becomes important as part of it's reliability concerns, or for very fine pitch SMD cutters so it can actually fit on such tiny pins (i.e. .5mm & smaller pitch QFN).

Oh, and if you're not aware, good quality cutters can be resharpened (further extending their lifespan). 

I prefer the 522 ones for my daily work (even used for stripping from wirewrapping wire to 1.5-2.5mm² wires!).
please take a look at photos and my opinions regarding those cutters:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/lindstrom-cutters/
Just to note it, at this date I have not yet replaced the ones photographed 2012-09!!! They are yet good even if used on daily routine!
If you are looking for Tweezers, there is almost one single company: Lindstrom or Ideal Tek which produce them for Lindstrom*.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/on-ebay-lindstrom-tweezers/ (you will find some comments of mine also on cutters)

*) but to my knowledge the Lindstrom ones are made better (maybe differente customer requirements) than the Ideal Tek ones!

Lindstrom's cutters aren't the same anymore IME (since production went to Spain). They're not terrible, but you can do better for the same or even less money IME. For example, I've a pair of Rx8140's that I never use. I grab the Swanstrom or a Tronex instead.

FWIW, I've both Ideal-Tek and Linstrom labeled tweezers and can't tell a difference in the fit & finish (new). 

[hrbngr]

eliocar,

thanks for the feedback on usage. I will look closely at the 522s!

re: Tweezers, which thread would be best to post to for further info on where to buy?  On Ebay... or Best Tweezers

nanofrog,

thanks for the feedback. I'll keep the choices to micro/fine/semi-flush and resist the temptation to get those super flush ones...also, was able to pick up both of those carbide cutters you mentioned. Thanks for the links!   

**edit**  Before i place an order w/Schmitz for those cutters, any particular Schmitz plier recommendations for starting out? (might be helpful for someone like me, upgrading to some nice cutters/pliers in one shot to save on those shipping charges)

[eliocor]

Lindstrom's cutters aren't the same anymore IME (since production went to Spain). They're not terrible, but you can do better for the same or even less money IME. For example, I've a pair of Rx8140's that I never use. I grab the Swanstrom or a Tronex instead.

I was talking about tweezers, not cutters. Once I bought the Ideal Tek equivalent of Lindstrom TL SM-108 SA but I was not satisfied at all: the surface finish was not so good and its tips were not rounded like the Lindstrom ones.


BTW, I didn't know Lindstrom cutters are now made in Spain: because I prefer to spend my money on good tools, it is SEVERAL years I do not need to "replenish" them!
But as I wrote, for my daily usage I have always preferred EREM cutters.

re: Tweezers, which thread would be best to post to for further info on where to buy?  On Ebay... or Best Tweezers

I really do not know: I once found some really good offers on eBay and I spent a discreet amount of money buying several of them.
Now I need no more because none of them require to be replaced: I love good tools and I treat them carefully... No one is permitted to touch them without my consent, so they last literally a life!
My suggestion (if you do not find some good offers on eBay) is to buy them from reputed distributors (RS/Farnell/Digikey/...)

[nanofrog]

nanofrog,

thanks for the feedback. I'll keep the choices to micro/fine/semi-flush and resist the temptation to get those super flush ones...also, was able to pick up both of those carbide cutters you mentioned. Thanks for the links!   

**edit**  Before i place an order w/Schmitz for those cutters, any particular Schmitz plier recommendations for starting out? (might be helpful for someone like me, upgrading to some nice cutters/pliers in one shot to save on those shipping charges)

You're welcome. 

For pliers, I'd go for:

• 4212HS22 (short snipe nose, serrated)
• 4202HS22 (long snipe nose, serrated)

These grip very well, which makes them great for removing bad parts off of boards (bad electrolytic caps in particular).
If you want to bend components cleanly (no nicks in the leads), you might want to consider the following as well:

• 4221HS22 (short flat nose, smooth)
• 4231HS22 (short round nose)

The flat nose are also good for straightening out leads (particularly useful when recycling expensive parts). 

[nanofrog]

I was talking about tweezers, not cutters. Once I bought the Ideal Tek equivalent of Lindstrom TL SM-108 SA but I was not satisfied at all: the surface finish was not so good and its tips were not rounded like the Lindstrom ones.

I don't have that particular pair, so wasn't aware. Wonder if Lindstrom paid for additional finishing or if the Ideal-Tek labelled pair slipped past QC when they shouldn't have. 

The Ideal-Tek labelled ones I have are standard profiles (7.SA, 0.A, 73.ZD*). These would be identical, and the fit & finish match those they're producing for Lindstrom. The rest of my Ideal-Tek's have Lindstrom P/N's.

* ESD conductive zirconium tips on a titanium body (these suckers can take some serious heat). Not made any more.

In regard to Erem, I found a couple of ErgoSense pairs (2422E & 2422EB) cheap, so took a gamble. They cut beautifully, but they slip around in my hands too much. My mistake, but it wasn't an expensive one (~$15 per pair IIRC). I also have a pair of 576TX tungsten carbide cutters I'm not giving up (also one hell of a deal; just needed cleaned up). I really do like the foam grips, but both grip types are a bit small for my hands regardless of how well they grip or not (I'm 6'-4"). 

In my case, Tronex and Swanstrom fit my hands much better, and cut just as well. So they won out for me (excellent cut & better control). YMMV of course.

BTW, I didn't know Lindstrom cutters are now made in Spain: because I prefer to spend my money on good tools, it is SEVERAL years I do not need to "replenish" them!
But as I wrote, for my daily usage I have always preferred EREM cutters.

I'm the same way. I've still got a couple of my original Diamalloy cutters (now Xcelite's green handled cutters & pliers).

A bit of history; the man that founded Diamond Calk Horseshoe Company (from Alloy Artifacts) was Otto Swanstrom in 1908. After his decendants sold it to Triangle Tools (which was then sold to Cooper), they created Swanstrom Tools with better cutters. 

[Dubbie]

I’ve used the same pair of yellow Lindstrom cutters (the completely flush ones) for almost 2 years now and they are still cutting beautifully. For tough stuff I go with the knipex though which may have something to do with it.

One thing I am looking for is a solution for stripping Kynar wire. I find that if I cut the insulation all the way through which seems to be necessary, I invariably nick the conductor, which weakens it significantly.

Any ideas?

[eliocor]

to strip Kynar (wirewrapping) I bought this stripper:
https://it.rs-online.com/web/c/cavi/accessori-per-cavi-fascette-utensili/spelafili/?searchTerm=t3757 (size 1)

but in general I prefer to use my trusted 522: with some experience and really sharp blades you will never nick the wire and it is much quicker.

[Circlotron]

Yet another vote for Lindstrom. 
Had one of these since 1999 and cut approx 250,000 component leads with them in that time.
Still going strong.

[Dubbie]

to strip Kynar (wirewrapping) I bought this stripper:...

Thanks, I ordered one. I’ll let you know what I think about it.

[aabbcc]

So I've been using my trusty Engineer NZ12 for the last two years, love em. However recently the little return spring snapped in two which makes it cumbersome to work with. Furthermore Engineer wont sell me just the return spring but asked me to talk to my local disturber and have them order one (there are no distributors for engineer products in Sweden...).

So does anyone know where I can get a return spring OR simply another equally good side cutter? I basically only use it for smaller cables 20-24 awg and for cutting component leads on through hole componenets.

[Dubbie]

to strip Kynar (wirewrapping) I bought this stripper:...

Thanks, I ordered one. I’ll let you know what I think about it.

Ended up getting these. They work beautifully! Quick, easy and no nicks.

[KL27x]

is there any particular style where a super flush/full flush/no bevel might be useful--even with the increased wear/reduced edge life? I mostly mess around w small electronics kits, parts replacement (mouse switch) and will be attempting to assemble a raspberry pi at some point, fyi.

As others have noted, a true flush cutter should grab insulation a little better when stripping a wire.* The semi-flush will be a few degrees short of perpendicular on the one side, and there will perhaps be a very tiny offset between the two edges.

But a semi-flush/micro-shear cutting edges overlap by a mil or so, so micro nicks don't leave partially cut wires/leads. If you are accustomed to buying your flush cutters in packs and treating them as disposable, you might want to give the semi-flush a try. Not for saving money.... but for having a pair that is 90% as good as a full flush ALL the time, rather than using a full flush in various stages of functionality and needing to have backups. The thing where you learn the part of the blade to use in order to avoid the nick? That will be gone, forever. I used to figure a year or two per cheap flush cutter; I don't know if my sub $10.00 semi-flush will ever need replacing.

One other functional difference is that semi-flush tend to shoot the clipped leads out like a bullet. Full flush are more likely to let the clipped ends gently fall out or even hold them after the cut. This takes a little getting used to, but it's nice that the result is decisive compared to wondering if you are going to be left with a "hanging chad" to rip off.

*The way the micro-shear/semi flush cutters look on my Xurons: Start with a perfect full flush cutter, but make the blades slightly offset. Now the edges pass each other, and the edge of blade A ends up resting on the bevel of blade B by a hair. Then while they are closed together, take a fine file to the flat side of blade B to put slight back bevel on the blade until the edges ALMOST meet, again. In fact, the flat side of blade B starts out a little more than perpendicular, so the result is pretty close to 2 blades with parallel faces on the "flat" side, just not quite in the same plane. I.e., they work very well for stripping. Maybe a good quality full flush strips slightly better by virtue of having perfect $100.00 edge more than difference in angles/geometry.

[PedroDaGr8]

Somehow I didn't chime in on this one, I would DEFINITELY recommend Tronex for side cutters. They are QUITE robust and are VERY VERY precise. I have been using mine extensively the past few years (sometimes abusing them) and they are still going strong and cutting just as well as the day that I got them. In fact, I am looking at fleshing out my lineup of stuff from them over time because I have been so impressed with their cutters. Oddly enough, I find I use their fine tipped needle nose pliers almost as much as I use tweezers. I like the extra control I get with the long handles. They don't replace tweezers for finest level work but for other stuff they work much better.

[nanofrog]

Somehow I didn't chime in on this one, I would DEFINITELY recommend Tronex for side cutters. They are QUITE robust and are VERY VERY precise. I have been using mine extensively the past few years (sometimes abusing them) and they are still going strong and cutting just as well as the day that I got them. In fact, I am looking at fleshing out my lineup of stuff from them over time because I have been so impressed with their cutters. Oddly enough, I find I use their fine tipped needle nose pliers almost as much as I use tweezers. I like the extra control I get with the long handles. They don't replace tweezers for finest level work but for other stuff they work much better.

Excelta has Tronex manufacture most of their cutters (no idea who makes their large & hard wire cutters). Different center screw and a sandblasted finish. So for anyone interested, you can look for a deal on these on eBay.

Swanstrom has the same size grips, and cut very well also. Schmitz is excellent, and less expensive (extensively rebranded, such as CK Tools, Bernstein, and plenty of others).

[iainwhite]

nanofrog - 
I tried some of the links you provided for the Schmitz cutters on the previous page.  (thanks for listing them)

Sadly, the links now fail and if you go to "http://schmitz-zangen.de/"  you get a message saying that they have changed to using amazon.de for sales.
Unfortunately, amazon.de will not ship these cutters to the USA   

[mtdoc]

nanofrog - 
I tried some of the links you provided for the Schmitz cutters on the previous page.  (thanks for listing them)

Sadly, the links now fail and if you go to "http://schmitz-zangen.de/"  you get a message saying that they have changed to using amazon.de for sales.
Unfortunately, amazon.de will not ship these cutters to the USA   

They’re on the US Amazon site too. Just search for schmitz.

[iainwhite]

They’re on the US Amazon site too. Just search for schmitz.

Thanks mtdoc.

Just that they were about 20% cheaper on the German Schmitz site back when nanofrog made his post, but now the door has closed!

[mtdoc]

They’re on the US Amazon site too. Just search for schmitz.

Thanks mtdoc.

Just that they were about 20% cheaper on the German Schmitz site back when nanofrog made his post, but now the door has closed!

FWIW, Amazon has a 10% off pliers coupon now. Only works for one though. I’ve got some Scmitz sitting in my cart right now...

[nanofrog]

nanofrog - 
I tried some of the links you provided for the Schmitz cutters on the previous page.  (thanks for listing them)

Sadly, the links now fail and if you go to "http://schmitz-zangen.de/"  you get a message saying that they have changed to using amazon.de for sales.
Unfortunately, amazon.de will not ship these cutters to the USA   

Thanks for the notice. This is definitely a recent turn of events.  The catalog isn't even available to figure out what P/N's to purchase, which is a mistake IMHO.

Free shipping on Amazon, but it's still an increase of ~$10 per pair vs. making a larger order directly from Schmitz in the past (Amazon's got to get their cut). It simplifies matters for them though, as they don't have to bother with the burden of all the individual order fulfillment as that's now passed onto Amazon. On the upside, it creates a much easier warranty pathway for the customer though.

Still, as the best brands tend to rebrand them, it's still less expensive than adding in their markup.

[Gromitt]

Well, the site for Schmitz Zangen says that the website is down due to a change of webprovider and until it is up again you can buy from their Amazon shop.

So I guess it's no time to panic.

[BradC]

After snapping 5 of these over 4 years : usually by snapping a blade off or breaking one of the handles at the joint I bit the bullet and bought some Tronex cutters.

Now admittedly I bought my first pair of pros-kit cutters and the rest were warranty replacements, but the Tronex are a completely different level of quality. I actually can't believe the difference or why I've stuck with cheap shit (and at nearly $35 they were not really cheap) cutters for so many years.

[aabbcc]

So after snapping the blade of my trustworthy engineer nz12 (I'm glad it didn't hit my eye because when it snapped the sharp blade flew across the room...) I had to get another pair of side cutters.

Left: Knipex 78-71-125
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B000ZEETWG/ref=pe_3044161_189395811_TE_SCE_dp_1

Right: Engineer NZ12
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCB-SIDE-CUTTERS-parallel-flush-cutting-snips-offset-angled-neck-Engineer-NZ-12-/261072195172




First impressions of the knipex is very good, super sharp and the little lead catcher is awesome. It's a fair bit wider than the engineer ones so might get another pair of engineers for those really cramped, hard to get to places and the fact that I liked the angled neck of it.

Also ordered a pair of Hakkos since I needed a backup, haven't recieved them yet though.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/POLOLU-2791-Hakko-CHP-170-Micro-Cutter/dp/B077QS6FDM

[helius]

Hakko's CHP series are made by Piergiacomi in Italy.
I have the Engineer NZ-12 also. It's nice that they are so narrow, but they feel less solid than other cutters I've used. I believe that they are primarily for cutting plastic sprue from models, and can be used for soft wires (copper or aluminum). Cutting steel pins with them is taking a risk.

[Olivertool]

Good afternoon.
I plan to change electrical wires in the whole country house, everywhere I lay NYM 3 by 1.5 and 3 by 2.5 mm.
Need a tool to remove the insulation of the outer shell and from the internal wiring.
What can I choose from this list spam link removed? thank

[themadhippy]

Need a tool to remove the insulation of the outer shell and from the internal wiring

Forget side cutters,a decent knife,not the  stanley variety,is much easier.

[Addicted2AnalogTek]

Good afternoon.
I plan to change electrical wires in the whole country house, everywhere I lay NYM 3 by 1.5 and 3 by 2.5 mm.
Need a tool to remove the insulation of the outer shell and from the internal wiring.
What can I choose from this list https://solderingironguide.com/reviews/best-wire-cutters/? thank

3 x 1.5mm and 3 x 2.5mm?  If you're in the USA like your country icon states, this is 16 AWG and 14 AWG.  More specifically, you'd mostly be using 2 conductor with ground wire.

For starters, current residential applications use 14-2 with ground for lighting only and 12-2 with ground for receptacles (outlet circuits). 
14-2 with 15 amp breaker at the panel ONLY and 12-2 with 20 amp or 15 amp breaker at the panel. If you run any smaller diameter conductor than 14AWG anywhere in your home wiring, you're creating a fire hazard, as there are no breakers smaller than 15A made for residential breaker panel applications.

You can safely install a 15A breaker on a circuit with wire no smaller than 14AWG, and 20A breaker with wire no smaller than 12AWG. (Assuming everything is wired correctly, with correctly twisted and wire-nutted connections, secured connections to screw terminals on outlets and switches, etc. etc.)

If you haven't done any residential wiring before, I'd suggest that you consult a professional journeyman or master electrician, as you can easily create fire hazards and potentially burn down your house and set fire to surrounding vegetation and/or structures.  There's a reason why CODE enforcement and the NEC (National Electrical Code) exist, and it's not just to be a pain in the butt.


If you're going to insist on performing the work yourself, call the local CODE enforcement office and make sure that you're outside of the area which requires a permit to perform such work. (In my case, outside of city limits.)
Get yourself a good, comprehensive home wiring guide.
Consult a licensed electrician and/or CODE enforcement officer regarding proper practices:

What size wire do I need for X application? What size breaker for these devices at X length of wire run?
Where must the wires be stapled? *answer is within 8" of any box entrance and every 32" of open run*
etc. etc.


Typical attitude of people I've observed before attempting to do construction related work:   "How hard can it be? Seems quite simple."
Typical attitude of engineers regarding construction work:    "I'm an engineer, dammit!  I can do your job better than you!"
Typical outcome of both:    "Shit!  I should have called in a professional..."

[helius]

I have a "K.Y.P." automatic cable stripper, like this:

They are also branded as C.K, Stanley, Irwin, and Gardner Bender. (and I found "Högert" and "Toolzone" branded pieces during my image search.) All these tools are identical except for the color.

It works pretty well on typical NM-B type jacketed cable. You can also use it to strip the wires, however I prefer using an Ideal Stripmaster to do that.


The cable stripper does not work on UF-B direct burial cable, because that does not use a loose jacket, but a rubber extrusion that surrounds the wires. To dress the wires you need to use a penknife (in the US, we call them X-Actos). You can also use the penknife to cut NM-B jacket, as long as you are careful not to nick the wire insulation. In some situations this is more convenient because the K.Y.P. tool is 10" long and requires more working space.

[Andrew LB]

Yeah, i know its from last year but this thread was a wealth of good info while informing my recent purchase of a pair of Lindstrom side cutters. They are absolutely incredible.


As for the previous post, I have a pair of automatic cable strippers like those made yellow ones made by Vise Grip and use them for everything from 10 gauge to as fine as 28 gauge with zero issues or damage to the conductor. They're especially nice when stripping solid conductor wire.

And while i know that guy wanting to rewire a house is probably long gone, I'd like to reiterate that if you think side cutters would be appropriate  for stripping 12/2 or 14/2 residential ROMEX wires, you have no business replacing a simple wall outlet, let alone rewiring an entire house. You will likely end up burning your house down, or at the very least fail inspection miserably, resulting in having to pay a professional a lot of money to re-do the entire job which will costs thousands of dollars.

A few years ago I did a complete rewire of a 3 bedroom home and while i'm not an electrician, i spent an incredible amount of time learning what is involved and all the procedures and code requirements necessary to do it properly. I also had a close friend who is an actual electrician on speed dial during the wiring process and paid him to do the actual panel installation and wiring of the breakers, bus bars, etc. It was a lot of work to rewire that house, and i took about 3x longer than a pro would have, but it was a great learning experience. When the city inspector came to check it out, he commented to my electrician friend who was standing there that it was one of the cleanest re-wiring jobs he'd ever seen. He then told the inspector that I did all the work, he just sat around and drank my beer. As you can imagine, i was stoked to hear that.

Back to a point i made earlier regarding breaker panels....  I don't care how confident you are in your wiring abilities, leave the panel to a professional. As someone who had the unfortunate experience of encountering an arc flash and lived to tell about it, heed my warnings on this. Had it been a 480v panel, i wouldn't be typing this right now.

[coppercone2]

what the electrician will do, is wire it, then take the time to reattach the panel with all the screws, tighten them, then turn it on

these accidents usually happen because its not neat, time is not taken, and people want to turn it on without the cover reattached.

Should a panel ever be live when the cover is taken off? Usually not, it means something is mondo fucked up if you need to do that. Should a panel be turned on for the first time ever without a cover? Never ever. I think people think that something will glow red hot so they can 'save' it. What you are supposed to do is turn it on for a while then look at it with a thermal camera after its deenergized to see if something is suspicious.

Also, the usual scientific method, don't do 15 jobs at once without testing them inbetween. You change one thing, verify it, secure it, leave it alone.

This all comes down to avoiding time savers to stay safe. Or thinking about how many more years you can get from the circuit breaker if you only turn it on ONCE to save money.

[Monkeh]

And while i know that guy wanting to rewire a house is probably long gone, I'd like to reiterate that if you think side cutters would be appropriate  for stripping 12/2 or 14/2 residential ROMEX wires, you have no business replacing a simple wall outlet, let alone rewiring an entire house. You will likely end up burning your house down, or at the very least fail inspection miserably, resulting in having to pay a professional a lot of money to re-do the entire job which will costs thousands of dollars.

And yet, much as I don't do it this way.. they're sufficient. Snip down the middle, split the jacket with the earth conductor, snip the jacket off. No fires involved.

ps. that was just a contextual spammer, and one from a different country with different wiring.

[coppercone2]

get the jacket stripping tool dude, its 4$

you need to buy the home depot electrical isle out when you do this (with the more expensive brands). Its still cheaper then a electrician. There is little bullshit there to waste money on.

That means
-get the little tightening wrenches for galvinzied tubing.
-get the insulated drivers
-get the insulated tools
-get the good flash light
-get the jacket stripper
-get all the other shit

Like I said, if you do any significant amount of work, its going to be cheaper, your hands will hurt less too.

[Monkeh]

get the jacket stripping tool dude, its 4$

Why.. would I buy a cheap tool for cables I don't use?

For a bonus comment:

Should a panel ever be live when the cover is taken off? Usually not, it means something is mondo fucked up if you need to do that.

It's called 'live testing' and is, in fact, something which needs doing in many places.

[coppercone2]

get the jacket stripping tool dude, its 4$

Why.. would I buy a cheap tool for cables I don't use?

it has a special blade that insures you won't nick anything and it saves your hands and you work more precisely. The noobs can use it. Most people are going to reach for a box cutter here.

Cables are fucking fancy shit. you need the right gear. Also, you respect bend radius of wires, you should not yank on a wire, even if you can. I feel like im watching bonobos peel bananas when I see ground wires being yanked.

All those tools ensure cleaner work with less chance of cable damage occurring. Then you can detect a fault.

What happens without the tool : ape picks up knurled pliers, digs way into the ground wire, yanks it too far, makes a 90 degree bend in the wire, ends up reusing the bit that was damaged with the pliers.

[Monkeh]

get the jacket stripping tool dude, its 4$

Why.. would I buy a cheap tool for cables I don't use?

it has a special blade that insures you won't nick anything and it saves your hands and you work more precisely. The noobs can use it. Most people are going to reach for a box cutter here.

Cables are fucking fancy shit. you need the right gear. Also, you respect bend radius of wires, you should not yank on a wire, even if you can. I feel like im watching bonobos peel bananas when I see ground wires being yanked.

I think you're missing the point. Look at the flag.

Peeling the jacket on a bit of romex isn't going to cause any damage.

[coppercone2]

get the jacket stripping tool dude, its 4$

Why.. would I buy a cheap tool for cables I don't use?

it has a special blade that insures you won't nick anything and it saves your hands and you work more precisely. The noobs can use it. Most people are going to reach for a box cutter here.

Cables are fucking fancy shit. you need the right gear. Also, you respect bend radius of wires, you should not yank on a wire, even if you can. I feel like im watching bonobos peel bananas when I see ground wires being yanked.

I think you're missing the point. Look at the flag.

Peeling the jacket on a bit of romex isn't going to cause any damage.

What happens without the tool : ape picks up knurled pliers, digs way into the ground wire, yanks it too far, makes a 90 degree bend in the wire, ends up reusing the bit that was damaged with the pliers. Then has to also straiten wire.

Release the psychos that manage to tighten lug nuts with box cutters.

[Monkeh]

What happens without the tool : ape picks up knurled pliers, digs way into the ground wire, yanks it too far, makes a 90 degree bend in the wire, ends up reusing the bit that was damaged with the pliers. Then has to also straiten wire.

You don't even need pliers - you can just use the cutters. It doesn't require much force to peel that crap.

[dreamcat4]

OK I think we are getting a bit side tracked here. More important thing to do is: please post a link for:

* lingstrom side cutters

* jacket stripping tool

If you think these things. That they are such a strong recommendation. If people dont want to get them then that is their issue. At least we will know which ones they are you guys are recommending here for us! Thank you

 


BTW another thing I was curious about:

Might be nice to know (since we are on this topic general) who here will bother to read the manufacturer specs on the breaker units to find the torque setting for the screw terminals. When wiring them up. And then actually torque them to spec which is to to ensure longest possible lifetime and safe guard against potential long term issue that may occur eventually if its either under or over torque by too much. Or if you otherwise think thats unnecessary bullshit because hand feeling through the screwdriver is close enough not to matter enough. So that is being unnecessary / over obsessive. Since i see qualified electricians who are all safe in all of these other respects when wiring panels. But do not bother to do that specific step (to torque with such an appropriate tool, to its documented manufacturer specs).

Perhaps if i saw it done by a German electrician maybe he more likely would... because you know how Germans are always going around talking about the 'preciseness' of everything. It matter so much to those guys

 

Also its so true what the other person here commented... that the standards indeed can vary considerably between countries. I am thinking old houses in the eastern european and russian states. They can be death traps almost. So whilst you might care for the 'main panel' they will say: 'Oh no problem! Nothing to worry about! There is no such 'main box' you speak of. Actually there is not word in our language for that. Here look - it is hole in ground leading through sewer.'

I'm not saying that it means to ignore safety. What I am saying is that the nature of the specific safety advice is naturally must be rather different in order to be as safe in more adverse operating conditions in other parts of the world. Not that I myself live in such places. So it would be nice to hear from others about those kinds of challenges.

[Monkeh]

Might be nice to know (since we are on this topic general) who here will bother to read the manufacturer specs on the breaker units to find the torque setting for the screw terminals. When wiring them up. And then actually torque them to spec which is to to ensure longest possible lifetime and safe guard against potential long term issue that may occur eventually if its either under or over torque by too much. Or if you otherwise think thats unnecessary bullshit because hand feeling through the screwdriver is close enough not to matter enough. So that is being unnecessary / over obsessive. Since i see qualified electricians who are all safe in all of these other respects when wiring panels. But do not bother to do that specific step (to torque with such an appropriate tool, to its documented manufacturer specs).

The yanks likely have no concept of this for normal terminals. Over here, such a contentious topic. Personally, I'm fine with doing them up by hand - if you're not doing lots of them. A professional running around doing stuff all day, every day? Sure, they've got a good feel for it - but they're still human and still make mistakes, and they get a lot of chances to do so. Remove the human element, because humans suck.

[themadhippy]

Snip down the middle, split the jacket with the earth conductor, snip the jacket off

AKA the cheese wire method,little chance of damaging  the other cores , quick,and you only need to carry 2 tools when second fixing,however it dont work so well on a bit of 120mm swa.
 Also i would like to add another vote for lindstrom , recently inherited  a pair of pliers that are as old,if not older than me,bit of wd40 to overcome several years sitting unused and they cut like  new ,6mm HO7,no problem.Unfortunately  the cable shears didnt fair so well,maybe  something to do with them  being used to prune roses for several years.

[coppercone2]

particularly if roses are fertilized with sulfur

For the torque wrenches,
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/wiha/28750/431-2133-ND/8569546?utm_adgroup=Screw%20and%20Nut%20Drivers%20-%20Bits%2C%20Blades%20and%20Handles&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_Tools&utm_term=&utm_content=Screw%20and%20Nut%20Drivers%20-%20Bits%2C%20Blades%20and%20Handles&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuKCCzbHD6QIVBYbICh2E2gUEEAQYByABEgIZrvD_BwE

https://www.wihatools.com/fixed-torque-thandles




Problem is, with service in USA, no one knows shit on old systems

Something that I am looking to add is big round nose pliers for bending nice loops.


Also, not ALL the german tools are great. Some are just german. I had a combo cable stripper and jacket knife that was horrible. It had a double ended blade fixed to a blade of metal spring loaded to the handle. No knife control on thick insulation since it was built like a hooked dagger built into a razor blade. It worked, but I had to be really careful using that tool to get the job done. It felt really flimsy because it was dangerous to use, and after you used it for a few hours non stop your brain kinda turns off and the tool becomes way dangerous as you get tired. It does allow you to do the job perfectly at first though.

[themadhippy]

only torqued terminations on one contract,but that also required the use of threadloc on every screw terminal,and as mentioned above you do get a feel for the correct tightness,and give the wires a tug just to be sure.

[Doctorandus_P]

I dislike wiha tools a lot.
Quality of the tools themselves is quite nice, but the plastic they use for handles and such is horrible. Within just a few years it often deteriorates so much you can peel it off with a finger nail.

[Monkeh]

only torqued terminations on one contract,but that also required the use of threadloc on every screw terminal,and as mentioned above you do get a feel for the correct tightness,and give the wires a tug just to be sure.

It's not really optional now. Manufacturer's instructions and all that.

[coppercone2]

only torqued terminations on one contract,but that also required the use of threadloc on every screw terminal,and as mentioned above you do get a feel for the correct tightness,and give the wires a tug just to be sure.

you need to go by manufacturers directions when dealing with threadlocker, it gets complicated

threadlocker requires a clean connector without grease, has some kind of cure time prior to install, and it expires, smells bad, has different tightening properties. No idea what happens if you try to add threadlocker to a torque specified joint that was specified without threadlocker either.

[dreamcat4]

I dislike wiha tools a lot.

Thats fine just get the wera torque vde driver kit instead then. Also seems to be cheaper here (bat least in europe area).

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B06XF2B539/

Looks clumsy so also not everybody is going to like that one either. But they also provide a 2nd backup slimmer not-torque handle too in same kit.

Still waiting for links to those myserious

* londstrom side cutters

and

* $4 jacket stripping tool

[Neomys Sapiens]

You need this?

https://www.lindstromtools.com

I also recommend Erem and those:
https://www.bernstein-werkzeuge.de

[BradC]

No idea what happens if you try to add threadlocker to a torque specified joint that was specified without threadlocker either.

You overtorque the joint. The correct way to do it is to measure the fastener stretch on a series of correctly torqued "clean and dry" joints, then apply threalocker and measure the torque required to achieve the same stretch. That's pretty hard on tiny little screws captive in a breaker/terminal strip.

[coppercone2]

i could see that being done on a floating bus bar. How to do it inside a complex electrical assembly like a subassembly? Some might be accessible with special micrometers/calipers but IDK its hard

Some stuff with a exposed lug maybe you can take out on a bench to test

it would be a whole boondogle to figure out an old system to make sure stuff did not get loosened out of spec

then how do you qualify loctite to get a repeatable torque spec? Measure its viscosity? I guess you don't really need to know unless its a business.

[dreamcat4]

i think the sensible thing to realize is that coper stranded is so soft and spring like it probably does not need thread locker most times.

Steel wires otoh are maybe different consideration.

I would expect you may want thread locker on single core wire.

To answer well what torque to use on undocumented stuff is to look at similar sized terminals and wire guages etc from several manufacturers who does specify the torque values. And then come up with some sensible range based on comparing between those. As a rough guideline. You might want to add an extra 20% or margin to have an extra buffer of safety without going too far and over torquing.

This would then be a very sensible 'best efforts' approach and perhaps more thorough than most would expect.

 

Also once you have come up with your own typical values it's going to be something you will remember and feel more confident about over and over. Assuming that you are not doing just for some 1 off job. Ideally there should be some blog page somewhere by an experienced electrician who already has done all this research. And made simple with easy to follow common examples. For the types that are most common

 

[coppercone2]

to do testing you would need to pass alot of current through it and monitor the thermals

and idk how to check for long term loosening, that would probobly involve a thermal cycler

[tooki]

After using them at my new work for a couple of months, I decided to pick up an Erem for myself. (I went for the 532E, full flush, since I already have decent semiflush cutters.) I have a bunch of Knipex, but Erem's precision is just on a totally different level.

The 522/522E (semiflush) are probably ideal for everyday use. Erem's "semiflush" is far closer to flush than to other companies'.

[Doctorandus_P]

I have a few EREM577E sidecutters, which are probably 20+ years old, and had seen some occasional abuse and gross overloads, but also normal wear as these were second hand and ex-factory use, and were therefore a bit blunt.

Just over a year ago I bought a stereo microscope, and with it I could see really well how blunt my Erem pliers had become over all those years.
So I spent about half an hour to resharpen them by hand on a simple whetstone, which was pretty easy because these are flush cutters and therefore flat on the outside.
I also de burred them my making a bevel with a 800 grit whetstone, which is maybe 50 um with. My Erem pliers are now very close to new quality.

According to https://docs.rs-online.com/bb08/0900766b80eb4d3c.pdf Erem also has a re sharpening service.

An unexpected but very handy feature is removal of wood splinters from your skin. You can cut through the upper layer of your skin (which has no nerves) just deep enough to grab the upper part of a splinter and pull it out.


Also:
Probably been said before, but worth repeating:
Always make sure you have a set of cheap or other more robust side cutters right next to your precision cutters to prevent temptations of abusing the high quality Erems for stuff they are not designed for.

[helius]

Xuron 2175 Maxi-Shear semi-flush are excellent "robust" cutters, and also cheap at around $12 new.

[dreamcat4]

get the jacket stripping tool dude, its 4$

you need to buy the home depot electrical isle out when you do this (with the more expensive brands). Its still cheaper then a electrician. There is little bullshit there to waste money on.

That means
-get the little tightening wrenches for galvinzied tubing.
-get the insulated drivers
-get the insulated tools
-get the good flash light
-get the jacket stripper

Hey I live in the UK here. And cannot access Home Depot website. So perhaps you can point out and identify (by image), which of these tools you were referring to? Thank you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=home+depot+jacket+stripping+tool

[helius]

I think he's referring to Ideal 45-025, 'Lil Ripper'
As mentioned before there are many tools that can be used to strip THHN.

[Monkeh]

I think he's referring to Ideal 45-025, 'Lil Ripper'
As mentioned before there are many tools that can be used to strip THHN.

When did THHN come into it?