Hakko Fr-300 desoldering tool

[Pasky]

I'm sold, thanks.

[tsmith35]

What are you using to hold yours (stand, etc...)

I use Hakko 633-01 Iron Holder with 599B Tip Cleaner for my two irons and the desoldering gun.

Ditto for me. I have a 633 stand with 599 tip cleaner that I use for my 808.

[bluey]

So having improved the 808, Hakko also jacked up the price of the FR-300 (rrp US310)

I had seen the 808 selling new as low as US165, but I had been looking at a 240V model which was >AUD500.

Does anybody have experience with the competition in comparison? They all seem to get good reviews from what I have read so far.
Goot TP100AS (antistatic)
Denon SC7000Z

[PlainName]

I have a Den-on SC7000 and think it's fab. The main reason I got it, over something like the Hakko, is that you can reverse the airflow, so have a hot air gun instead with the flick of a switch. It's actually a little more complicated than that: you can get a tip specifically for blowing instead of sucking, and an unrestricted filter doobrey - the first is longer than normal so heats the air for longer, and the second lets more air pass. The result isn't anything like a dedicated hot air gun, but I use it to do a quick bit of heatshrink without bothering to change tip or filter.

It's quite a heavy thing but well balanced, and although you can feel the tingle when the pump is running it never affects your aim. I use it for all desoldering jobs now, and periodically I'm tempted to get another off Ebay just in case I break this one. That's a reflection on how well integrated in my workflow it is rather than a statement of its fragility, by the way

The prices of these on Ebay seems a bit high, although sometimes you do get a bargain. A better source is Howard Electronics:

http://www.howardelectronics.com/den-on/sc7000.html

I don't think you'll find a better price for new ones than that. Nice company to deal with.

[iRad]

So having improved the 808, Hakko also jacked up the price of the FR-300 (rrp US310)

I paid $247 from TEqupment.net, using the EEVblog discount code of course...

[neslekkim]

I have a Den-on SC7000 and think it's fab. The main reason I got it, over something like the Hakko, is that you can reverse the airflow, so have a hot air gun instead with the flick of a switch. It's actually a little more complicated than that: you can get a tip specifically for blowing instead of sucking, and an unrestricted filter doobrey - the first is longer than normal so heats the air for longer, and the second lets more air pass. The result isn't anything like a dedicated hot air gun, but I use it to do a quick bit of heatshrink without bothering to change tip or filter.

Have you compared it to the hakko?
Does it have switchable power?, seems like they are 120 and 240volts?

[PlainName]

Have you compared it to the hakko?

No, but if someone would care to donate one for the cause I would be happy to do the comparison 

Does it have switchable power?

Er... not sure what you mean there. If you mean 110/240 like a laptop PSU, then no. You buy a 120V or 220V version.

If you mean does it have a switch for power, then yes: there is a switch at the bottom of the handle, and a temperature control at the rear (with LED indicator of power use so you know when it is up to temperature).

[bluey]

The product information for all these shows they are available in different voltage versions but are not quite explicit that there are different model numbers for the different voltage versions. This is very clear when looking at detailed photographs of the manufacturer's plate. None are multi-voltage switchable units.

Without there being any three-way comparisons of Hakko vs Goot vs Denon guns, the best I can figure so far is:

TIPS: Hakko 6 sizes (0.8-1.6); Denon 7 sizes (0.8-1.5); Goot 7 sizes (0.8-2.5)

HEATING: Hakko ?120W element 350-500degC (4 settings, knob); Denon 100W element 350-500degC (variable pot, knob?); Goot ?60-70W element 250-450degC (11 settings, screwdriver)

FILTER: Hakko ceramic paper (thick disk); Denon felt ; Goot steel wool, felt x2

SOLDER CLOGGING, CLEANING: Hakko has internal threads on the tips which are short. This would seem a maintenance disadvantage if solder gets in there. Both Goot and Denon have long tip extensions inside the gun with an external thread and the solder looks like it wills stay entirely within the tip. Goot says oxidation in the tip will eventually cause clogging.
Denon suggests the solder piles up on itself leaving a long time until the filter clogs with solder.

VACUUM: All have very similar vacuum power. (Denon suggests the guns are much better than desolder stations.)

ESD; Hakko no; Denon yes; Goot yes for TP100AS model with black body, no for TP100 grey body model

WEIGHT, BALANCE: HAKKO 520G; Denon 420g; Goot; 470g. Denon and Goot have the motor in the handle. Hakko looks to have a thinner handle wiht motor in the body.

EXTRAS: Denon has hot blow - not sure how useful this is in practice apart from cleaning the gun. Hakko and Goot come with case, small stand, spare filters.


So which will end up being the most productive in use???

[PlainName]

One thing noting about the Den-on is that the cartridge is plastic and disposable. When the filter is clogged, you bin the entire cartridge and slap in a new one. Being a cheapskate, I might try replacing the felt instead and see what happens...

The felt end of the cartridge is almost solid, with air holes around the periphery. The idea is that the solder coming up the nozzle impacts on the plastic face and either build up there into a pyramid or rattles around the cartridge. Easily emptied, and all the felt has to deal with is fumes and airborne particles.

Its also has a nozzle cleaner secreted in the handle. A minor thing, but shows some thought went into it.

On the downside, because the tips are so long internally they cost more than the old Hakko ones. And they're not quick change like the new Hakko.

[iRad]

Without there being any three-way comparisons of Hakko vs Goot vs Denon guns, the best I can figure so far...
So which will end up being the most productive in use???

Don't over think it. If you need 240V, then Denon. If 120V, then Hakko. Both are nice guns. Any choice might be a small compromise, but I'm sure you will be satisfied with the performance and operation of either.

[plexus]

I just got an FR-300 from Tequipment. It's very nice. I haven't used the 808, in fact I have been procrastinating on getting an 808 for about 3 years. Then the FR-300 came out and I decided it was sign from Deep Thought. It works very well and is comfortable to use. I want to get a couple more tips though and because I am in Canada and Tequipment uses a "logistics" company (oxymoron), $35 worth of tips is going to cost me $35 in shipping. As an aside, priority shipping from US to Canada is a joke - first class is faster, DOES have tracking and is way cheaper. I digress...

Does anyone know of a place that will ship to Canada that has N50 tips for the FR-300? Let me know and I will investigate the shipping. I guess the FR-300 is new enough that the tips haven't made their way on ebay yet.

The include N50-04 1mm tip is fine but there are some applications where i need a narrower outside diameter and a larger inside diameter.

[jpb]

Without there being any three-way comparisons of Hakko vs Goot vs Denon guns, the best I can figure so far...
So which will end up being the most productive in use???

Don't over think it. If you need 240V, then Denon. If 120V, then Hakko. Both are nice guns. Any choice might be a small compromise, but I'm sure you will be satisfied with the performance and operation of either.

I'm in the UK and I've just been told by Dancap (the Hakko dealer here) that as the FR300 needs to get CE certification, realistically it will be about 3 months before it is in production and available in Europe. My choices seem to be

Hakko 808CE from Dancap for £236:14 + P&P + VAT =  £295
with spare nozzles costing £9:65 + VAT = £11:58

The Denon is available from Farnell for £369 + VAT = £442
but spare nozzles cost a mind boggling £52 + VAT = £62

I can't see that the Goot is available in the UK at all.

Can anyone in the UK suggest cheaper options in the UK (as apposed to importing)? Why are Denon nozzles so expensive (there is slightly more to them than the Hakko ones but if you want to have two sizes to work with it comes to over £500 (or nearly $850!!!)

I'm a bit reluctant to buy an 808CE just as it is about to be discontinued but then again I don't want to wait around three months.

[PlainName]

Can anyone in the UK suggest cheaper options in the UK (as apposed to importing)?

Buy from the US place I mentioned before. OK, that's technically importing, but you save a bunch of money even if you get stiffed for import duty and VAT. If you're lucky they might not see it come in

[jpb]

Can anyone in the UK suggest cheaper options in the UK (as apposed to importing)?

Buy from the US place I mentioned before. OK, that's technically importing, but you save a bunch of money even if you get stiffed for import duty and VAT. If you're lucky they might not see it come in

Thanks - they are certainly cheaper than Farnell but there is less comeback if things go wrong or at least a lot more hassle. It also depends what they charge for postage - when I asked IET for a quote on the ED5000 capacitance meter the postage costs to the UK were something like $150. If the postal costs are around $100 then the total cost would be $500 plus import duty which is the same as VAT so it comes to around £360 rather than Farnell's £442.

For me the saving is probably not large enough to justify the risk that it might be wiped out by needing to return it to the US if it is faulty or they accidentally send me a 110V version or whatever.

It is a pity that being in the UK is so expensive for electronics goodies compared to the States.

[PlainName]

I hear what you're saying. It is worth having an active search on Ebay: most of them are silly prices, but now and then you get an affordable one (about £200). They seem to be reliable, but at that kind of price you could get another for spares

Unfortunately, the US place is still the cheapest for  the tips, but shipping can make it marginal unless you're buying a couple. If you do end up with one of these and want to get some extra tips, I'd be happy to add a couple to the order and split the costs of shipping with you. Or anyone else, for that matter...

[jpb]

I have a Den-on SC7000 and think it's fab. The main reason I got it, over something like the Hakko, is that you can reverse the airflow, so have a hot air gun instead with the flick of a switch. It's actually a little more complicated than that: you can get a tip specifically for blowing instead of sucking, and an unrestricted filter doobrey - the first is longer than normal so heats the air for longer, and the second lets more air pass. The result isn't anything like a dedicated hot air gun, but I use it to do a quick bit of heatshrink without bothering to change tip or filter.

Have you used this for SMD work at all? The Den-on (from Farnell) is around 50% more than the Hakko 808 but the extra might be worth it if the blow option is useable. If it is only really good for heatshrink then it is probably not worth the extra.

Though at present Farnell doesn't list the blow nozzle kit anyway - I've e-mailed them to find out if they sell it.

[PlainName]

Have you used this for SMD work at all?

Kind of. I tried it before I got the blower kit and it was promising but ultimately unsuccessful, probably due to the small tip orifice. I figured it would be OK if the board was preheated, though (which it really should be).

The other problem is that the heat needs to be whacked up due to the low airflow, and that causes the solder on the tip to dry out and make a horrible mess. There is also quite a bit of pressure involved, and that causes the spring holding the collection glass seals in place to not  hold them in place, so you lose air pressure...

The blower tip, not being used for soldering, doesn't suffer from that so can take the full 500C if necessary, and has a decent sized orifice. And the blower glass is a few mm longer so keeps the seals in place. It all sounds like a bit of a drag...

Nevertheless, I was using it in blower mode this weekend to do heatshrink stuff. I have an Aoyue 852, which is what I used for this before, but that's a drag to use with the thick airline trailing and the need to be careful where it's pointing when not in use.

The blower aspect of the Den-on is somewhat more useful (or not as useless, depending on your view) as it might first appear. But I would treat it more as icing than sponge, if it were a cake. If I were paying Farnell prices I wouldn't cough 50% extra for the blower facility - that would buy something like the 852, if you don't already have one, and that's much more capable and wide ranging.

Bear in mind that I haven't used a Hakko, but going from the comments on here it seems to be pretty capable. I have to say that in your position, buying from Farnell, I would probably go for the Hakko.

[jpb]

Have you used this for SMD work at all?

Kind of. I tried it before I got the blower kit and it was promising but ultimately unsuccessful, probably due to the small tip orifice. I figured it would be OK if the board was preheated, though (which it really should be).

The other problem is that the heat needs to be whacked up due to the low airflow, and that causes the solder on the tip to dry out and make a horrible mess. There is also quite a bit of pressure involved, and that causes the spring holding the collection glass seals in place to not  hold them in place, so you lose air pressure...

The blower tip, not being used for soldering, doesn't suffer from that so can take the full 500C if necessary, and has a decent sized orifice. And the blower glass is a few mm longer so keeps the seals in place. It all sounds like a bit of a drag...

Nevertheless, I was using it in blower mode this weekend to do heatshrink stuff. I have an Aoyue 852, which is what I used for this before, but that's a drag to use with the thick airline trailing and the need to be careful where it's pointing when not in use.

The blower aspect of the Den-on is somewhat more useful (or not as useless, depending on your view) as it might first appear. But I would treat it more as icing than sponge, if it were a cake. If I were paying Farnell prices I wouldn't cough 50% extra for the blower facility - that would buy something like the 852, if you don't already have one, and that's much more capable and wide ranging.

Bear in mind that I haven't used a Hakko, but going from the comments on here it seems to be pretty capable. I have to say that in your position, buying from Farnell, I would probably go for the Hakko.

Thanks for that. It is very useful to know. Farnell are intrinsically expensive, the Hakko is from Dancap but I'm hanging on a bit for the Hakko FR300 to get its CE rating and become available in the UK. The Den-on would save me the wait but is a bit too pricey and I'm reluctant to get the old Hakko 808 just a month or two before it is replaced.

[PlainName]

The Den-on would save me the wait but is a bit too pricey

The simple answer to that is to buy it from the US instead of Farnell, and get the blower kit plus whatever tips you want at the same time to save on shipping later. There is the warranty aspect, of course...

[jpb]

And you need a fairly chunky transformer... It's worth it though. I bought a 100V 500W step-down converter years ago and it has saved me twenty times what it cost.

I think for the Den-on you can get the 220V version from the states so don't need the transformer. You would need one for the Hakko as their 230V version hasn't passed CE testing yet.
From dunkemhigh's link to howard electronics:

This tool is available in 110V or 220V.

[gmit77]

And you need a fairly chunky transformer... It's worth it though. I bought a 100V 500W step-down converter years ago and it has saved me twenty times what it cost.

I think for the Den-on you can get the 220V version from the states so don't need the transformer. You would need one for the Hakko as their 230V version hasn't passed CE testing yet.
From dunkemhigh's link to howard electronics:

This tool is available in 110V or 220V.

CE testing has passed, we have the CE certificate in our hands 
first 50 units arrive end of August
ciao

[iRad]

CE testing has passed, we have the CE certificate in our hands 
first 50 units arrive end of August

Good News for the rest of you folks needing 220V. I have been using my 110V model most every day for more than two months now with no complaints. A very nice and welcome improvement over the previous 808 I used for years.

[iRad]

Okay, but will it cost 2x as much as the 100V version? I hope not.

Here is the formula for that: EUR = USD(V/110)

[tcsaba101]

Hi

I have never used this kind of tool.

This one resembles in shape to hakko tools.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251237388856

Is it good for light desoldering jobs or absolutely uncomparable with hakko?

[PlainName]

I have no idea what that one is like is use, but a possible problem with it is spares: you will need to replace the filters, maybe the clear catcher if you drop it, perhaps the front seal now and then, etc. Will these still be available when the manufacturers have moved on to something else? Come to that, are they available right now?